Landing gear mishap nearly catastrophic, pilot says

[DemoTex]

Source: CNN.COM

Capt. Sam Mayer says he knew he was in trouble when he heard a noise minutes after takeoff from the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport on a frigid day last December.

The American Airlines pilot says the plane's nose gear would not retract and he quickly began circling the Minnesota airport. But freezing temperatures and icy precipitation started to create problems inside the plane, Mayer says.

"Our windshield started to cover with ice from the bottom working its way up," he says.

"As we were running the emergency procedures, there was a pop. Everyone's ears blew out. We realized that we had lost the pressurization of the aircraft at that time."



Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/08/griffin.landing.gear/index.html

---

Now we know. American Airlines pilots say the FAA and American Airlines have been sitting on this problem. The scandal in the US transportation system deepens. I, for one, am totally disgusted.


Illustration only. This was not the MD-80 involved in the mishap.

[hedgehog]

1. It looked from the televison picture that the problem with

Flight 862 last February resulted when someone didn't disconnect the tow bar from the nose wheel. Does anyone have any info on that? Not precisely a mechanical problem if that was the case, but a real breakdown in procedure!

On edit: a really incredible landing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke0qzn5M5xE

[conscious evolution]

31. The tow bar had been removed

Compare the video with the photo in Parches reply #5. The size of the tow bar would have made it impossible to miss if it was still on the aircraft.
That said the tow bar could have contributed to the problem.On some aircraft hooking up the towbar requires disconnecting the stearing mechanism on the nose gear.If not reconnected or improperly connected by the groundcrew after the towbar is removed it can cause the nosegear to flop in the wind,so to speak,with a loss of steering on the ground.The wheels coud have touched down turned to one side causing the plane to veer out of control off the runway.
If you look closely at the vid you can see a small dark object extending behind the tires.On the aircraft I am familar with a disconnected steering linkage would drag in a similar manner.

[hedgehog]

32. Wow - that's really spooky! It sounds like they were damn lucky the wheels wouldn't

retract. Can you imagine if the wheels had gone into the compartment, but jammed up inside and wouldn't come out? How about if the wheels came down and locked into position only to veer sideways as the plane landed?

[BootinUp]

2. I agree, while the FAA has often been accused

of bending to the will of the airlines in the past, it appears to have gotten significantly worse during the Bush II years. I am glad I don't fly too often.

[lapfog_1]

3. hadn't seen this video until it was posted on metacafe...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1187305/video/R/CFD_1002/

Dangerous landing, but very good job by the pilot.

[XemaSab]

16. There was a crash in the Middle East back in the 60's or 70's

where they had falsified the tire pressure reports so instead of rolling down the runway on takeoff the tire DRAGGED down the runway on takeoff. When the landing gear was pulled up into the belly of the plane, the plane exploded, killing everyone on board.

Even the littlest, stupidest things...

[baldguy]

4. This is a direct result of Republican policies of non-existent govt oversight.

Continued Republican rule is a direct threat to the life, health & safety of every American.

[Parche]

5. WOW

All AA Flights out of PDX are cancelled today
5 to DFW and 2 to ORD
:hi:

[DemoTex]

6. I'll cross-post my response to El Supremo's LBN thread .. it is important.

The FAA and the airlines must be forced to address basic safety-of-flight issues. FAA ASI (Air Safety Inspector) whistle-blowers brought the problem of severe manpower shortages in the FAA inspector ranks to the Congress a couple of years ago. Dr. DemoTex (my wife) was subsequently on a National Academy of Sciences panel that addressed the problem and made recommendations. The Bu$h administration ignored the recommendations of the National Academy of Sciences.

The chickens are coming home to roost, and it ain't pretty. Bridges, roads, cities, airliners, and god-only-knows what else, are crumbling as Emperor Bu$h bets the US Treasury on his wars-without-end in the Mid East.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3261284

[libnnc]

7. Looks like the FAA can't blame everything on ATCers

The whole system is falling apart.

Leaving air safety up to the whims of the free market is a bad idea all around.

NATCA has been saying that for years. Sadly, no one listens.

[AdHocSolver]

13. The right-wing is privatizing the FAA (for profit), and aviation safety is being compromised to...

increase profits.

Aviation services that used to be under the control of the FAA are now handled by private companies with little FAA oversight. Airplane maintenance is one of them.

Several airlines now outsource aircraft maintenance. To get the work done cheaply, many aircraft are being sent to Mexico, El Salvador, and China. Yes, China! The country that sells us poisoned pet food, and lead laced toys, now fixes the airplanes on which YOU may fly. (I now prefer to take a train.)

The March, 2007 issue of Consumer Reports Magazine ran an article entitled "An accident waiting to happen? Outsourcing raises air-safety concerns". It discussed these issues a year ago from several points of view.

Some quotes from the article that provide insight into the safety issues raised in this post and the cross-post:

"...More and more airlines are contracting out the work to maintain planes -- fixing wheels, repairing engines, and more."

"...most of the 20 largest domestic airlines were outsourcing more than half of their major maintenance."

"Contract repair facilities, especially those overseas, are subject to less oversight than in-house shops, with fewer screening programs for workers, fewer inspections, and loopholes that allow even more subcontracting."

"At the same time, the Federal Aviation Administration, which is in charge of regulating airlines and promoting air safety, is reducing actual inspections of airplanes by its own staff as it moves to an electronic-surveillance system that relies more on statistical analysis and reporting by the airlines themselves."

The last paragraph explains why so many aircraft have been grounded at the same time. Their spreadsheet program calculated the probability of major failures to occur in some instances of that airplane in the near future. However, since NO ONE has actually been INSPECTING the aircraft, they don't have a clue as to which aircraft may experience an actual failure. So they wind up grounding all the planes for an actual physical inspection.

[coriolis]

22. Yes and another problem is that a lot of counterfeit parts are finding their way into

maintenance facilities...even those right here in the US. Illegal as hell but...cheap.

[gateley]

28. I had no idea that airlines were outsourcing maintenance.

I DID know that the FAA, like every single other government agency, has had its budget cut and is barely limping along.

I'd read where air traffic controllers were taking early retirement, if not downright quitting, because they were being called upon to work more and more hours and the equipment was pretty much obsolete.

What's left of our country? We buy our food, clothing, cars, electronics, toys and more from overseas. What do we have left? Seriously?

[coriolis]

8. Why was he circling in icing conditions to begin with? That makes no sense

especially if the anti-icing systems are down (the stuck NOSE gear caused that????)

If he was in the clouds he was certainly low enough that the pressurization would have been very small... 1 or 2 psi...I question why it was even left on unless it has to be to get cabin heat (doubling up on the air cycle machine?)...but there surely is a way to at least turn the differential down to zero. I think AA has more problems than nose gears...somebod needs to review procedures both in the hangar and the left seat.

[AdHocSolver]

19. He was circling the airport to give the airport time to clear the runways and set up for ...

an emergency landing. Climbing to get out of icing conditions would just cause the plane to take more time to land, and increase the risk of more problems. The pilot did exactly what he should be doing.

Jet planes climb very quickly. It takes a few minutes to pressurize the plane. It makes sense to start pressurizing the plane when the pilot starts his take off run, not wait to start until after the plane has passed ten thousand feet. (DemoTex would know more about this procedure.)

Finally, how could stuck nose gear affect the anti-icing system? I don't know specifically how an MD-80 is wired. However, one possibility is that the two pieces of equipment share a circuit breaker, and when the nose gear failed, it took out the deicing equipment as well.

The "privatization" of aviation safety is one more example of what corporate greed has done for America.

[coriolis]

21. They don't say how long it took but typically an airport can clear all runways in about

30 seconds. Might take 2 minutes to roll the trucks. One think you do NOT want to do is pressurize a plane to a lower cabin altitude than the airport. Ever. I may only have 6900 hours logged but I do know that much. :D

You might be right about the MD80 wiring...I suppose bigger bungles have been made engineering-wise i the past. I can't think of any though.

But sure, go ahead and ask Mac what he thinks. :-)

[DemoTex]

23. Here is my read on the "circling" of the airport .. FWIW.

He had a nose-gear problem. It could have been mechanical, hydraulic, or electrical (or some combination of those) in nature.

Landing gear problems are not usually considered "emergencies." They are "abnormal situations." My airline had a Quick Reference Handbook (QRH) with five pages of "Immediate Action" problems (aka, emergencies) in the MD-80 QRH: Aircraft evacuation, compressor stalls, engine fire/severe damage, excessive cabin altitude, loss of thrust on both engines, engine reverse thrust/unlock (in flight), runaway stabilizer trim, smoke/fumes, spoiler float, total loss of AC power, cargo fire, hot start, hung start, tailpipe fire or torching during start, no EGT indication during start, start valve open after start (on ground), and tailpipe fire or torching during engine shutdown. That's it. NOTHING ABOUT GEAR PROBLEMS.

However, my MD-80 QRH "Abnormal" section had SEVEN PAGES devoted to landing gear problem checklists, FIVE PAGES of hydraulic checklists, and FOURTEEN PAGES of electrical system (DC & AC) checklists. These checklists take time to work through. Landing gear problems often require coordination with maintenance on the ground (for example, a B-737 with an "A" hydraulic system problem is probably going to need a tug to get off the runway).

In the case of a straight forward landing gear problem (one or more gear stuck "up"), time is your friend. Since you cannot dump fuel, you might as well burn it at a relatively low altitude (higher fuel burn rate) while you methodically go through the checklist, which will entail some modicum of troubleshooting.

However, other factors might turn a garden-variety gear problem into a full-blown emergency scenario. Compound, simultaneous systems malfunctions/failures comes to mind. Weather also comes to mind .. especially airframe and/or engine icing.

My read is that this captain did not lolly-gag. Once he determined that his de-ice/anti-ice systems were not coping, he probably did as much of the landing gear checklist as he could safely do on an extended downwind while being vectored for the ILS. There comes a time to get the beast on the ground, and I think he knew when that time was.

Unfortunately, CNN reporters seldom get this kind of story right. The way the article reads gives somewhat of an impression that the captain dragged his heels getting the ship on the ground. I do not think that was the case at all. The captain earns the big bucks for his experience and judgement, and IMO the airline and the passengers got their money's worth that day.

BTW: I have two long stories of baffling inflight problems that defied the "book." Maybe I'll post them in GD later on. One problem, with rudder trim, happened to me. The other problem, which started with a shoulder harness being released and ended with an aircraft evacuation at BWI, happened to a good friend.

[coriolis]

24. I didn't really think the captain was unprofessional, not at ALL...but I did wonder about

following procedures that would allow for continuation of a flight in (obviously) known icing condx with a malfunction.
Maybe the tops and/or the ZL were WAY up that day (in a warm front?) Like you say they don't go into just exactly how much time was involved but a significant or dangerous load of ice rarely appears in a couple of minutes. Also I wondered how a nose gear problem could be permitted (during design, manufacture or maintenance) to morph into a pressurization/anti-icing failure...but I know shit happens. ;-)

I've had a couple of landing gear "situations" but they didn't result in bending any airplanes. Had a bellcrank on
the aileron cable break off a bulkhead one time and letting the whole system go slack...luckily they trailed in mostly neutral position so that rudder and power were plenty enough to manage an approach. Trim problems are among the scariest, though...because they're hard to diagnose and nearly impossible to repair in flight (Air Alaska, for example)

[DemoTex]

26. Air Alaska MD-80 stab-trim jack-screw was my worst nightmare.

Their big problem .. in addition to continuing to trim, against the grain (so to speak) .. was playing test pilots over Catalina Island. The MD-80 QRH was very clear on "trim ambiguities" .. stop trimming! All they had to do was make a high-speed, no-flap landing at Edwards AFB .. they were in perfect trim for that. So, so sad.

[regnaD kciN]

29. I'd LOVE to hear that one...

The other problem, which started with a shoulder harness being released and ended with an aircraft evacuation at BWI, happened to a good friend.

It sounds like it would rival Patrick (Salon's "Ask the Pilot") Smith's account of the erupting toilet on a cargo DC-8.

[EFerrari]

9. Three of us in my family are white knuckle fliers.

I actually take a tranquilizer before boarding, listen to music and read if I can't sleep through it.

This is it for me. I'm not flying any more. I'll walk, bike, drive and take the train. And that's too bad, because there's no way to drive to Tuscany. :(

[liam_laddie]

11. You could always hitchike a ride on a pax-carrying freighter (ship)...

'course that's a few weeks in transit, but you could take some books. Actually, if the weather's good and they put into some interesting ports...but I digress, which is what life is between responsibilities. Tuscany sounds like about the best-ever place to base when spending Euros.
:grouphug:

[EFerrari]

12. Now there's a good idea.

We took a flying visit to Milan and Florence and the surrounds for the Palio one year. I pitched a big fit because we had to go home. Tuscany reminded me of the CA wine country with all that golden light. And I can mostly understand what people are saying which is a big plus. I tried to ignore the ten minutes my mother spent staring at David's crotch. lol

There are some places that feel more like home than not like home.

:hi:

[slipslidingaway]

10. Aircraft maintenance outsourced to China??? Do you have any

thoughts on this and/or know if this is a widespread practice.

Thanks.

It is discussed in the first few minutes of this interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tLvB-rf2Lo

[AdHocSolver]

14. K and R. Let's recommend this post, and simlar posts, to give this issue some legs. n/t

[LisaM]

15. Outsourcing maintenance is a TERRIBLE idea.

And the air-traffic controllers are all getting ready to retire. It's insane.

[AZ Criminal JD]

17. When was the last commercial airline crash that resulted in deaths in the U.S.?

[sgsmith]

20. Comair out of Lexington ?

Which wasn't maintenance related.

[KoKo]

18. My Nephew is an AAEagle Pilot ...and he says it's terrible how AA

is letting their equipment go down hill. That and putting Co-Pilots on that are so young the Captains have to train them in flight. He flies smaller jet and he's been complaining the last year that they aren't being maintained properly and it's like flying a Greyhound Bus...with cooling equpment failing and bathrooms overflowing. He flies Executives around the Carribean ...and Cuba.

[AdHocSolver]

25. If someone would recommend this important post, we could get it to the "Greatest Page". Kick! nt

[SnoopDog]

27. Notice how the media spins it as 'American cancels flights'

... instead of "FAA orders American Airlines to fix their damn planes"...

[BlueCollar]

30. They were fixed

The devil's in the details...unlike at Southwest