Unveiled Women anger Saudi Cleric

[Spentastic]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3415757.stm

So we've got France determined not to let women wear them (in state institutions) and the religious authorities in Saudi determined to make women wear them (all the time).

[Flagg]

1. why don't you guys give France a break for a while

[Loonman]

3. France is alright

It's Chirac who is a cretin.

[Flagg]

5. was a cretin when he stood up to dubya's illegal crusade ?

[Spentastic]

6. Flagg

I replied but in the wrong place

It's down the thread a bit.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

13. I have nothing against France.

We liberals are not the ones who came up with "Freedom Fries." I simply expect more from France than I do from Saudi Arabia in terms of human rights and democratic ideals. When France makes what I feel is a mistake, I'll say so. That's what friends are for. :)

[damnraddem]

21. So French policies cannot be criticized? That sounds like Dubya's USA.

The French government is pushing an idiotic crusade to control student dress and behavior. Others have compared it to schools that require uniforms in the US -- and I agree that it is at least as stupid. But it is worse in attacking subcultures and their specific symbols. It should be treated with the same disdain as are the rants of Muslim clerics about women who don't dress according to religious edict, or as the smashing of our liberties by the Bushistas in the US.

[Loonman]

2. What a backwards-ass country

Somebody remind me while we coddle the House of Saud.


Oh, yeah. Oil.

[Spentastic]

4. Actually

I was posting this as a counterpoint to the France threads. I hope to see equal condemnation from the anti France crowd to the statements of this guy. Otherwise the arguments they make about choice will seem rather empty.

Personally, I say Vive la France. This kind of imposition upon choice is exactly why secular societies must maintain freedom from religion.

[Muddleoftheroad]

8. You got it from me

The House of Saud is no friend to anybody but the zealots. I don't think government should be forcing people NOT to wear things. Nor do I think they should be bullied into wearing things.

It's called freedom. Both Chirac and this moron need to learn about it.

[Spentastic]

9. Excellent

I expected as much.

I'm just anxious to see if anyone will defend this position.

[PsychoDad]

17. How can one defend what is simply wrong?

Scholars may debate the interpitation of dressing modestly, and what was meant by covering one's head. The differance of what is called for by Islam as opposed to what is historical or cultural.

Sura 2:225 makes the position of Islam very clear.
"There shall be no compulsion in religion"
And the Prophet often stated that "Islam should be a soft thing", not something hard and opressive.

It's quite alright, IMHO, to encourage the wearing of the Hijab, but to force it is simply WRONG. Just as it is wrong to forbid it.

Islam has more than one face, the Saudis are only one part of the Umma, or Islamic community.

The only ones who I can see defending the right of the Saudi state to enforce the wearing of the Berka would be the same ones who defend France's right as a state to prohibit the wearing of it.

[aquart]

19. Hey, I think the yamulka is idiocy, but my cousins wear them.

I'm not sure I respect any religious customs because they're built on so many misinterpretations and misapprehensions, BUT BUT BUT.....

in the crunch, when major changes are happening, the rituals are as important to joy as to sorrow. And I cling to mine, I've been comforted by mine. How can I jeer at anyone else who clings to his?

[PsychoDad]

16. Well said.

Very well stated. The issue is basic. It is about freedom.

[Spentastic]

7. Kick - Come on France Bashers

Where are all the France bashers? Surely everyone condemns this guys intolerant stance?

[Beaker]

10. Exactly- People forget that WITHOUT France in the Revolutionary War-

we'd all be speaking English right now.

the Queen's English.

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. That has been a while

You don't get perpetual carte blanche.

[Flagg]

14. WWII has been awhile too

You don't get perpetual carte blanche.

[Muddleoftheroad]

15. Your point is?

[Flagg]

25. take a guess

[damnraddem]

22. You mean I now have to start speaking the Queen's English?

Personally, I'd prefer a Carta Blanca.

[saigon68]

20. And having to hear and see that HORRID BLAIR POODLE

Yuk

[Yerta Bulti]

11. Perhaps they don't

want to miss a good opportunity to shut up.

[Fovea]

18. Dont miss the mess

Saudi Arabia is sliding into chaos. Princes are kidnapping princes, security is helping al Qu'aeda escape arrest.

Stop worrying about France. Worry about what happens in a Middle East where Saudi Arabia is in full civil war!

[damnraddem]

23. Iraq under US occupation, but coming apart. Civil war in Saudi Arabia.

Oil vey!

[lightbulb]

24. What happens when American women appear topless

In most public places? They get arrested for indecency. Do men?

I will not defend the general oppression of women that takes place through much of the middle east. But we are not exactly gender-blind here in the west when it comes to standards of clothing in public places, so we should not be so quick to judge.