Iraqi Christians are defenseless, says top clergyman

[sabra]

Source: Azzaman

Iraqi Christians are target of oppression from religious militias and despite their suffering there is no one to defend them, said Patriarch Amaneul Dali, the head of the Chaldean Catholic community in Iraq.

He said neither U.S. troops nor the Iraqi government were concerned about Iraqi Christians, their churches or monasteries.

The top clergyman, who is also the head of the Iraqi church with its different denominations, made the remarks when asked about the fate of a Chaldean Catholic bishop unidentified gunmen abducted four days ago as he left a church in the northern city of Mosul.

Dali would not comment on the kidnapped Bishop Paulus Raho, but was critical particularly of the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki for ‘reneging on promises’ to protect the Christian minority.

Read more: http://www.azzaman.com/english/index.asp?fname=news/2008-03-05/kurd.htm

[Taverner]

1. WAHHH WAHHH WAHHH Maybe we need to send them the Wahhhmbulance!

One group of crazies hunts down another.

Under Sadaam, Christians were protected btw. Tariq Aziz is a Christian.

[kestrel91316]

5. I have a couple of clients who are Iraqi Christian expatriates.

They happen to be some of the sweetest people I've ever met, bringing me tasty samples of their traditional cuisine - it's terrible what is done in the name of ANY religious fascism.

THis may come as a shock to you, but most Christians are NORMAL people who respect the rights of others and don't shout their beliefs from rooftops but just live them. Don't assume they are ALL like our American brand of Christian fundie whackjobs (who are a small but very vocal minority in the US).

[nxylas]

6. And don't assume that "persecution"...

...means a store clerk saying "Happy Holidays" to them instead of "Merry Christmas". Or are you in the habit of telling genuinely persecuted minorities to quit whining and suck it up? (Edit: sorry, that was directed at the poster of Reply #1).

[Taverner]

11. I may have responded a little harsh here

I'm just sick of hearing the Fundies here claim about Persecution. They don't know what real persecution is!

Here's persecution: I had a Professor in grad school who lost an arm to the Taliban because he worked for a University, and thus must be evil and sinful. That's persecution.

Even in China, Christians aren't persecuted. If you go to church, raise your kid Christian and read the bible, nothing will happen to you. You can even join the CCP. Try to proselytize and you get jailed. Not the nicest treatment, but I can see where China is coming from. That is not persecution.

Iraqi Christians, Jews and Atheists need to get out of that country fast. Doesn't matter if they lived there all their lives - they are an endangered species on the brink of going extinct.

[pegleg]

12. Buddy, you have a problem with bigotry

[Taverner]

13. Perhaps - but I have a major gripe against the Evangelical Christians

They fucked with reality for me. They lied. They abused.

I spent years in their schools, where they fucked with my head and made me accept their fucked up view of reality.

Even on the surface level - why does mankind need to be "saved"? Why are we that bad? We aren't. We're fine animals - doing what we do. If we can just make it better for as many people as possible - reduce suffering - that's all we need to do.

But no, Christianity takes the view that we are all evil (original sin) and deserve eternal punishment. Humans are bad, bad, bad.

[pegleg]

14. My sympathies. Really.

[Critters2]

16. And because of this, Iraqi Christians deserve to be persecuted?

Interesting sense of justice.

[fujiyama]

24. American fundie whackjobs can go fuck themselves

buncha fucking lunatics. I hate these people. They're stupid and callous. They don't give a shit about Christians abroad getting killed, because to them they're not even the right kind of Christian. You have to be "born again" whatever the fuck that is.

And I agree, the Caldeans I have met over the years have been decent hardworking people. I have to admit, this is getting me especially angry because I spoke one day to a coworker of mine who is Iraqi-Christian/Canadian...One of the nicest people I've met. She told me about her school getting bombed and how it was back home in Baghdad...and she also said it was fairly tolerant under Saddam at least with regards to religious worship. She mentioned the destruction of the aftermath of the first gulf war. I asked about family back home and mentioned how depressing it all is.

I stopped asking her because I saw the sadness in her face and it's obvious the wounds are raw.

So yeah, the other poster's cavalier dismissing of the plight of their community pissed me off too....

[DinahMoeHum]

7. Iraqi Xtians are NOT fundies. Nor are other Orthodox Xtians in the ME

Syrian Orthodox, Coptics (Egypt), Armenian Apostolic, Maronites (Lebanon), etc.

OTOH, you, Taverner, are an ignoramus (your comment re Saddam/Aziz not withstanding).

And, BTW, I'm an Armenian Apostolic, and, trust me, we have no love for those lily-white, Southern-fried white monkeys like Hagee or Robertson either.

:evilfrown:

[eissa]

8. Inch bissis?

One of the only Armenian terms I learned from my Armenian mother-in-law! And yes, you are absolutely correct -- I'm Assyrian Apostolic and the husband is Syrian Orthodox and those fundie, bible-thumping Falwell types might as well be Martians.

[DinahMoeHum]

9. Shaht lahv.

and you just got added to my Buddy List!!

:bounce:

[knitter4democracy]

28. Thank you. I was about to post something.

We're Orthodox converts, and I get so tired of some here who assume all Christians are like Dobson and his ilk. :hug:

Oh, and do you have any good Lenten recipes? Our kids are old enough to keep the fast on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays this year, and I'm trying to expose them to the good stuff. :)

[fujiyama]

23. WTF is that supposed to mean?

Christians in Iraq are being butchered now thanks to this invasion which has turned the country into a theocratic shithole....all supported by our dumb fuck American "evangelicals". These fucking idiots think the Iraqi Christians are heathens anyways because they're Catholic...Thing is, they are among the oldest Christian communities in the world...

[eissa]

2. As a part of Iraq's Christian community,

I can tell you that the fate of the indigenous Assyrian/Chaldean communities in our ancestral lands is very bleak. Millions have fled to neighboring Syria and Jordan hoping to get visas to the west, while those who remain (due to nationalism, or lack of money to leave) are targeted by these thugs. Yay liberation :eyes:

[SpiralHawk]

3. Oil Crusaders create unwelming condtions when they invade...

It's a fact of life, and a sad reality that Christian families suffer because of the republicon Oil Crusade and its pack of lies.

[magellan]

4. It's not just Iraqi Christians who've been targeted

But like the puppy abuse stories, this will get America's attention.

[fujiyama]

26. I wouldn't dismiss what is happening though

Their situation is very serious though I agree that all communities have had it awful over there considering it's just a matter of retaliating attacks between different ethnic groups...

The key thing is understanding that life for Christians in Iraq was UNDENIABLY better under Saddam. Our dumb fuck evangelicals, McCain, and others won't get that through their fucking heads...

[magellan]

27. Absolutely, and I was trying not to sound dismissive

...because I remembered reading one of River's blogs (Baghdad Burning) concerning this. A friend or relative came to visit River one day, a young woman, who carefully put her head scarf back in place before departing, as if she'd been doing it all her life. This surprised River who pointed out that this young woman was a Christian Iraqi who previously had no experience with wearing a head scarf -- that's how scary things had become for every woman in Iraq after the US invasion/occupation. River's experience was the same; a Sunni woman who held a computer-programming job and was used to wearing what she wanted in public, head uncovered, she quickly wound up unemployed and didn't dare leave her home without the proper clothes and head covering, and the required escort of male relatives.

The Shia were the ones they feared.

I wish I could remember when she blogged this. I'm pretty sure it was at least 2 years ago. That's how quick our corporate media is to report on things.

Our evangelicals don't care about the oppressive religious practices in Iraq because it's about Muslims and they don't see themselves in the mirror. Maybe hearing that Christian Iraqis have been affected will make them take notice, but it'll be for all the wrong reasons.

[gratuitous]

10. When will William Donohue go to Iraq?

Sounds like there might be some real, actual endangerment of Catholics there, instead of the fake "persecution" the Catholic League is so fond of hyperventilating over. Donohue should take his dual flaming swords over to Iraq and start kicking asses and taking names.

Fortunately, none of Donohue's enablers in the media will have the bad taste to ask him about that.

[Dark]

15. So are the gays, but I bet most (fundie) christians are fine with that.

n/t

[Critters2]

17. Most fundie Christians are fine with persecution of Iraqi Chrisitans.

The persecution of Christians in Iraq is being ignored by fundie Americans, because they are Republicans first.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

18. Also, they don't consider Eastern Orthodox (or Catholics) to be "Christians"

Only culturally Middle American types who go around talking about how "saved" they are are considered Christians in the suburban megachurch world.

[Critters2]

22. Exactly. nt

[pegleg]

19. No they are not.

[Critters2]

21. Really? You can give me some quotes from fundie leaders

to demonstrate their outrage? Really. Link me to some outrage.

[knitter4democracy]

29. Not just Iraqi Christians.

They completely ignore all the Christian Palestinians when they talk about Israel, too.

Don't get me started on how nasty they are about the Orthodox and Catholics in Israel who own and control access to the holy sites. :eyes:

[classysassy]

20. John Hagee

to the rescue.

[IndianaGreen]

25. It was the US that put a fundamentalist Islamic government in power in Iraq

This is what happens to people that welcome a foreign crusader on their soil!