Anti-depressants 'of little use'

[hunter]

Source: BBC

New generation anti-depressants have little clinical benefit for most patients, research suggests.

A University of Hull team concluded that the drugs helped only a small group of the most severely depressed.

Marjorie Wallace, head of the mental health charity Sane, said that if these results were confirmed they could be "very disturbing".

But the makers of Prozac and Seroxat, two of the commonest anti-depressants, said they disagreed with the findings.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7263494.stm

---

Anti-depressants are part of the cocktail that works for me, but I'm absolutely certain the common term "depression" describes a great number of problems, only some of which involve brain chemistry.

There are people like me who are "depressed" because their brain chemistry is wacky, but many more people are depressed because they are stuck in living situations not conducive to happiness. For them there is no magic pill.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Right. They are not a magic elixir even for those of us who have chemistry troubles.

[Gman]

2. anti-depressants aren't intended to be a magic pill

they must be used in conjunction with psychotherapy in order to be better able to handle those things not conducive to happiness.

[melody]

14. 200 mgs of Zoloft did what 20 years of psychotherapy failed to do

Psychotherapy (as it now exists) is useless in major depression. I know. I'm a one-person lifelong experiment.

[goodgd_yall]

83. My experience too---but with a different Rx

I did years of therapy and only a pill rid me of my chronic depression.

[triguy46]

133. I have believed that Z has really helped me. Now I'm wondering if I haven't imagined it.

Shit. Wife says I'm better. I think I'm better. I am now wondering if my improvement is real or imagined. I sure don't like the side effects.

[TrogL]

138. You're better

Don't let these idiots scare you off your meds.

[Mountainman]

167. Tell your doctor you don't like the side effects. Most of us have gone through

different meds until the most satisfactory one was found.

[samsingh]

175. i hope you always remain well - remember that depression

comes and goes

[TrogL]

178. only if you're bipolar or situationally depressed

Chronic depression does NOT go away without meds.

[ArizonaJosie]

194. I was using 100 Mgs

I did get relief when I was severly depressed, almost immediately, but as far as a long term effect I didn't notice much help. But when I was really down it did help me. When I took too high of a dose I would get slight termors and a feeling of jitteriness.

[yardwork]

97. Unfortunately, too many people are expected to "make do" on meds

with very little talk therapy. The insurance industry severely limits most people's access to effective talk therapy. I know this from personal experience.

I was covered by my former husband's health insurance - one of the "best" in the country, supposedly. The coverage included all the meds my doc wanted to prescribe, but very limited talk therapy sessions. I paid out of pocket for more extensive talk and group therapy. Eventually, my coverage changed to include longer and more frequent face-to-face sessions with my psychiatrist.

The talk and group therapy has changed my life significantly. Meds can be life-savers, but so is talk therapy. Unfortunately, talk therapy is expensive and most insurers don't cover it.

[varkam]

3. I think that the idea of...

forcing pharmaceutical companies to publish all data is a major step in the right direction. Science is undermined to the extent that they are allowed to bury unflattering data.

[hunter]

13. Absolutely. The pharmaceutical industry buries unflattering data.

Very often the research they use cite to support their drugs is crap. In fact, they will aggressively seek to bury unflattering research, especially when it is shown an inexpensive generic drug works better and has less side effects than their latest marketing endeavor.

They spend more money on marketing than on research, and that's where they go rotten.

[klebean]

43. exactly n/t

[gateley]

4. I kind of liken it to getting sober.

The problems are still there, but one's ability to deal with them is much more doable.

[Skittles]

5. I wonder how much of their affect is "placebo"

yup

[UncleSepp]

24. What placebo effect?

Faith healing through ritual useless pill ingestion?

http://www.slate.com/id/2176465/pagenum/all/

The placebo effect is being debunked right along with other forms of quackery.

[Skittles]

26. you cannot tell me it does not happen

I mean, please - look how many people think PRAYER works

[UncleSepp]

171. Yes, I can. Current research indicates it is insignificant.

The original study claiming the "placebo effect" was deeply flawed, and subsequent studies on the placebo effect specifically have found no significant placebo effect in anything except for patient perception of long term pain control. That does not mean that people do not perceive benefit from ineffective treatments; people will identify as the cause of their healing, or the cause of their illness, events before their change in condition.

Claiming that a person's actual healing can be effected by their belief in the power of sugar pills is no more scientific than claiming that a person's actual healing can be effected by their belief in pyramid power, crystals, or prayer. Either belief can heal, or it can't.

[TrogL]

190. I'd like to see how long the "actual healing" actually lasts

when effected by belief in the power of sugar pills.

[electron_blue]

61. Most antidepressants have a success rate comparable to that of placebos.

Antidepressants also have a success rate on average, marginally better than 30 minutes/day of aerobic exercise.

[samsingh]

176. they are very effective

[TrogL]

192. Mind posting some peer-reviewed studies documenting this?

[hunter]

86. There's a fascinating bit of data in the study about placebos.

If a doctor gives a placebo to someone who is deeply depressed, their symptoms are likely to get worse.

Hmmmmmm... Does this say something about the nature of depression, or the nature of the studies?

[UncleSepp]

172. It seems logical.

What would you expect to happen if you lie to a depressed patient and give him a treatment that doesn't work? Wouldn't it make sense that having the hope of getting help dashed by a bogus treatment would make the hopelessness of depression worse?

[pookieblue]

6. like you

AD's have helped me. I would not be alive today, if it were not for AD's and my doctors.

I think though, that before a person is rx'd an AD...they should be checked out by a doctor who specializes in mental issues.

[Mojorabbit]

7. I have family

members who took them and the difference is amazing. They certainly made a positive difference. I am not sure what to make of this study.

[OwnedByFerrets]

8. They are of GREAT use to the CEO's who sell them to a

gullible populace.

[daleo]

9. There is also a compelling case that they increase suicide risks

Among users. So, it looks like they are not doing most people any good, and can actually be doing some harm.

Note, that there are no doubt some categories of patient that are helped by this medicine, but I think it is being prescribed outside of that range of patient.

[southerncrone]

10. These meds are just a diversion to cover up the REAL problem....

look at the world we live in.

Anyone who is NOT depressed, is not engaged in or connected to the world. :freak:

We are all depressed on one level or another, just from what is happening in this world. WE have turned this beautiful planet into a place of misery & chaos. :cry:

We are powerless in the face of controlling leaders & dictators who make the rules that they exempt themselves from, while forcing the rest of us to struggle just to survive. Third world countries have it even worse.

Until we as a species face what WE have done, accept responsibility for changing it, & actually make that change, the depression will continue.

Pills are not the answer, just a camouflage or diversion. :hangover:

IMHO,the entire planet needs psychiatric help in the form of counseling one another, not meds. :grouphug:

[TrogL]

36. There are may people depressed with no situation causing it

Not every gets upset about politics. Many people just plain ignore it and live their daily lives.

When nothing makes you happy, when you feel just numb all the time, when you can't find the energy to get out of bed, it's time to find out what's eating your neurotransmitters.

[southerncrone]

134. You've missed my point. I'm not talking about just politics.

I'm talking about the reality of our world. We have kids taking guns to school & killing their classmates & teachers. People attacking others over "sale items" during Christmas sales. Drive-by shootings. Abuse of the elderly. Road rage. The list goes on & on.

These are not political issues. These are human issues, or rather, inhumane issues. Why are people treating each other this way?

Many are on these very ADs. We have a huge anger management issue in our society. We are not dealing with it. That is my point. We need to find out WHY so many people are so ANGRY & willing to treat each other so badly. Not just medicate it.

I am happy for those of you who had a positive experience with your ADs. But was there any investigation done to determine the cause of your depression? Diet? Result of other meds? Family conflicts? Work issues?

When we seriously look inside our lives & acknowledge what is really going on, we often can overcome these WITHOUT meds. Feeling numb all the time is the result of something. Often we are psychologically blocking out unpleasantness in an unconscious manner resulting in depression.

My point is meds should be last resort instead of first. In most cases these should be short-term just to achieve brain chemistry balance again.

[TrogL]

139. There is nothing new under the sun

I'm old. Life is not that much crazier than when I was young, just different kind of crazy.

• We had WW II, Korea, the Cold War.
  
• EVERYBODY drank.
  
• EVERYBODY smoked.
  
• You were SUPPOSED to beat your wife and kids or you'd be in trouble for not disciplining them.
  
• Kids were dying of polio and all sorts of other diseases now preventable.
  
• Cancer or TB or a heart attack was pretty much a quick death sentence.
  

Be that as it may, then just as now, many people had relatively ordinary lives without drama who simply could not cope, sat in the corner and cried. They were quietly locked away in institutions and forgotten or they quickly suicided. Then the wonder drugs started appearing:

• vaccines
  
• anti-biotics
  
• anti-psychotics
  
• anti-depressants
  

and people who used to be sick, both physically and mentally were well again.

Don't tell me they don't work.

[southerncrone]

145. I didn't say they didn't work.

They just shouldn't be thrown first at everyone who is not feeling on the top of their game, which is what happens now. They should be used when other types of therapy don't work. They have their place.

My point is they are over-prescribed & most patients on them are under-monitored.
They can be very expensive, so when someone looses their insurance or doesn't have the $ to continually afford them, they stop them cold turkey & often very bad things happen to the patient or others they encounter.

Someone here stated they should only be prescribed by psychiatrists. I think that is a good idea. Many of the GP's act like they are the same as cholesterol-lowering or blood pressure meds, when they are very powerful & sometimes cause unpredictability in patients. Close monitoring is important.

I'm old, too. And the difference between now & then is the level of anger in our society, & it's not being addressed. There's also a very snarky, smart-aleck defensive attitude that's prevalent in our culture that didn't exist then. This is not making our society better, it is keeping it divided. We need to figure out where these came from--what's caused it.

[hunter]

160. There are not enough psychiatrists to go around.

And paying them is problematic or impossible for many people.

People who suffer chronic depression are less likely than others to have good insurance that pays for psychiatric care, much less expensive prescriptions.

The U.S. health care system sucks so badly it would be a disaster to require antidepressants be prescribed only by psychiatrists.

[skepticscott]

54. Like so many others

you confuse everyday ups and downs of moods with clinical depression, and think those afflicted with the latter just need to pull themselves together and everything will be all right. It doesn't work that way, any more than two aspirin will cure a brain tumor.

[Thor_MN]

195. There is a world of difference between depression and Depression

While you are correct, IMO, in your assement of the current state of the world, your comment on depression do no favors to this thread. While I do not have Depression, I know someone who does. My intention is not to attack your post, just inform. Speaking of depression to someone who has Depression is like a person complaining of a hangnail to a person who has no arms.

The drugs are for is Depression, which is is a medical condition, rather than depression, which is a feeling. There is a huge difference. There is likely a wide spectrum of causes of Depression, in that the same treatments don't work for everyone. Some might get relief from talk therapy, others only get relief from AD drugs. Others resort to ECT treatments, I helped my friend through a month long course of ECT. In my opinion, (over)prescriptions of AD drugs for people who "feel blue" is probably the major source of the "useless" claims.

For people with Chronic Major Depression, the alternative to treatment can often be suicide. While several rounds Kumbya might lift the spirits of the those who are feeling the pain of adversity, the people with the medical condition of Depression need much more.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[melody]

12. BULLSHIT! I would be dead without them now

I mean this. It's not hyperbole.

If you consider my life ... and the lives of many more like me ... "of little use", then I guess SSRIs are.

I am so sick and tired of people using one stupid study to prop up asinine, childish theories that all we need
is "hugs" and "the world is depressed" and it's "placebo effect. When I was three years old, my father began
molesting me. He also verbally, psychologically and physically abused me. My mother died from alcoholism when
I was a teenager. She also verbally and physically abused me. I am not the product of the "real" world ... I come from
a deeply painful past. I tried to kill myself before SSRIs. I have not tried since taking them.

THESE ARE NOT FUCKING HAPPY PILLS! They help people FEEL things when they've had nerve centers shutdown. They are
vital to our survival. People who pop off about crap they don't understand -- stuff that saves lives -- is nothing
less than the clear equivalent of fundies trying to save non-existent babies by opposing stem cell research.

I've only posted about my past a couple of times. I'll shortly delete this -- I'll let it stand to counter this bullshit
garbage yet again.

[kotsu]

17. This is not just a little study

but something that supports what a lot of people in the mental health field, and their patients, have been shouting about for years....drug manufacturers are throwing out chemical cocktails in order to make money, not to treat depression. If you have to take a medication to treat depression for year after year, you are no longer being treated for depression, you are being maintained with a drug dependency.

I'm not convinced these drugs save lives. Every suicide I've known has had the person on anti-depressants.

Every one.

[TrogL]

22. Complete fucking horseshit

(c'mon somebody alert on this, I haven't been in trouble for ages)

Some people's pancreas don't produce enough insulin. They are on insulin shots for the rest of their life.

Some people's brains deal improperly with neurotransmitters, particularly serotonin. They end up on SSRI's or equivalent.

Get it?

[melody]

25. Well said -- absolutely right n/t

[fascisthunter]

71. .

[Mik T]

90. As a former caseworker....exercise is better.

I can tell you it's a mixed bag. The antipsychotics are worse by far then the antidepressants. Some of them, like wellbutrin, seem to work for a while, then seem to stop working. The response of the psychiarist is usually to increase dosage. Some, like prozac work for some people and not at all for others. Some of them have such horrid side effects for some poeple that it's not worth it.

I totally agree that these things are over prescribed. In a major way. Instead of doing goal work, when ever I could get away with it, I used to take my clients on walks. I would educate them on healthy eating- which is damn hard on foodstamps.

Most of these things have weight gain as a side effect. There's nothing that makes you more suicidal then gaining 50 pounds you don't need.

[melody]

101. I tried exercise. And "healthy eating". They did nothing.

I started out fat in the first place. Exercise did NOTHING for me. Neither did St Johns Wort and the vitamin
concoctions the natural health maniacs push. I also tried TM. If this was "merely" a placebo effect, those
things would have worked as well.

The thing that so many prissy, anti-psych med authoritarians can't seem to grasp is that, for many people,
SSRIs work. Nothing else does. This seems to deeply impact their need to believe in a non-chemical brain,
but the truth is the truth.

[Mik T]

163. As I said, It's a mixed bag. I am not anti-med. I think it can be lifesaving.

I am not a wierdo alternative health person who believes in homeopathy or some other crock of crap. For some poeple, there is no denying that that meds work.

On the flip side I just felt that they overprescribed them. Two of my clients were on 12 meds at once. They were kinda like animated zombies. I think the drs were rewarded by the drug companies for over medicating their medicaid patients. Most of the ones on medicaid were given more drugs then IMO, they required.

Also, when diet and exercise are neglected, it is a fact that they make depression worse, whether you are on meds or not. They don't seem to affect schizophrenia or bipolar disorder that much though.

[Libface]

92. And for some people increasing serotonin makes the problems worse. It's really not as simple

as the drug companies marketed it to be. I'm not saying they don't work for some people, and I'm glad they do, but they buried the bad studies and it basically ruined my life.

[Political Heretic]

152. That's exactly what my doctor said, and what I say as an MSW

Telling someone with appropriately diagnosed chronic (clinical) depression to just feel better is like telling a diabetic to just make more insulin.

[melody]

23. Is insulin for diabetics a "drug dependency"?

My mother's choice of drug was alcohol. She died from it. She nearly died from it when I was a little girl. I'm now
48 and healthy. My liver function is great.

You "just say no" abstinence people have the same anti-drugs mindset as Nancy Reagan and the anti-science mindset of the
anti-stem-cell people. THOUGHT is chemical ... the brain is run chemically.

Every suicide happened in a depressed person -- depressed people take anti-depressants. They don't work 100% but they do
work -- the reason they are dangerous is that they're powerful. And we need them.

This is NOT a "major study" -- go take a look at the details. It's just the abstinence-minded, People Must Suffer Because
We Want Them To morons speaking out yet again.

[EFerrari]

31. Um, you don't develop dependency on anti-depressants.

[kotsu]

37. um

yes...you do.

Being prescribed one hot on the market anti-depressant after another year after year after year develops a dependency upon the drug to manage one's mood. Most long term patients no longer have a clue what normal emotions feel like.

I'm not saying that anti-depressants are bad, per se. What I think, and what most studies support, is that tinkering with the chemistry of our brains should never be a casual endeavor. As it stands now..there is very little work on teaching how to deal with depression and most treatment is merely tossing scripts at a sufferer.

[melody]

39. Yeah, all those pain meds patients don't know what real pain feels like either

Do you begrudge them the lack of it?

You have no idea what depressed emotions feel like. I have LOTS of ideas on what real emotion feels like -- I felt them for 35 years.

BTW, you're clearly the same poster with the "drug dependency" rant -- if you're so sure of your opinion, why do you hide
behind fake IDs?

[TrogL]

40. "Most studies"???

Let's see them.

[EFerrari]

42. No. That's inaccurate.

In fact, most of the newer anti-depressants actually stop working after a while so people have to change them out for something else in order to get the same benefit.

And why do you think that taking anti-depressants is in any way casual? What an astonishing statement.

[Frank Cannon]

53. Cite your "studies", please.

I'm particularly interested in this "dependency" problem you mention for most "long-term" patients, as well as the research that states what "normal emotions" are supposed to feel like.

[LeighAnn]

121. I've seen it first hand

Have you ever been around a person who couldn't get their Prozac or Zoloft prescriptions filled for a couple of days? They cry like there's been a death in the family. Withdrawal from anti-depressants is a horrible thing to witness.

[Frank Cannon]

128. Again, research, please.

I'm truly fascinated by this subject, and I'd like to see the studies that demonstrate this dependency for most people that take antidepressants.

And BTW, as another poster mentioned, relying on antidepressants to keep one's clinical depression in check isn't a dependency any more than having to stay on an ACE inhibitor to control one's hypertension.

[TrogL]

129. Yes. BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO COME OFF THEM ALL AT ONCE!!!!!!

This has been said over and over within this thread. I've already said it a few times myself and people just don't seem to get it. There is a proper procedure for scaling off anti-depressants. I'll find it later and post it as a separate sub-thread. Basically, though, you back off on the dose over a period of time.

IF YOU DON'T DO THIS YOU GET HORRIBLE SIDE EFFECTS!!!!!

IT FUCKING HURTS!!

I hate to have to bring this to your attention as you seem to have missed this basic lesson in childhood but people in pain cry and act out.

[hedgehog]

130. Maybe they get upset when they can't get their anti-depressants

because the depression returns? These drugs are all treatments. None of them is a cure.

[SoxFan]

79. Thank you, Tom Cruise

:eyes:

[AngryOldDem]

82. So you think people take them like M&Ms??? n/t

[Political Heretic]

151. I think in the interests of full-disclosure you should post your credentials

Are you a doctor, or MSW or LMSW or CLMSW, or psychiatrist, or licensed counselor?

Because I am a MSW, and you don't have a clue what the heck you are talking about.

[TrogL]

191. I'm in acronym hell

:wtf:

[electron_blue]

62. There certainly are similarities to drug dependency. Have you ever gone through

the extreme withdrawal symptoms from going off antidepressants suddenly? There's more to it than you would first guess - one just can't compare it to insulin and blood pressure meds, etc. although it's tempting.

[EFerrari]

88. I've done both and the process of going off of an AD is quite short

in comparison to the ten days or so of going off of something like a tranquilizer. But, that's just my experience. ADs stay in your system for weeks. It takes that long for your system to process the difference.

My experience might be typical but no doubt there are people out there who have more significant problems. Going off of Prozac gave me a headache for about 24 hours and that was it. It certainly can be compared to any medication that people take to compensate.

[electron_blue]

98. Well, your experience is different from mine.

When I quit Lexapro after being on it for 9 months, I went cold turkey. I didn't hear that you had to taper off. I had bad headaches, probably similar to what you had, hard to tell, except mine lasted for a month. I had electrical brain zaps that sometimes occurred 1-5 times/minute. I would be talking to someone and then zombie out. I thought I was dying. I had many violent thoughts and impulses, and more. My doctor was very concerned after I went to see him after 3 weeks of this. He was about to order an MRI based on my symptoms, then he figured out I quit my AD w/o tapering. These are all classic symptoms of severe AD withdrawal symptoms and they lasted a full month. It was sheer hell. You're lucky it only took a day and was restricted to a headache.

[EFerrari]

103. I've heard the same report from others going off of Lexipro

and I apologize if I seemed to discount what you went through.

Those of us who benefit from psych meds need to push our doctors to become better educated on the entire process. Because with the tech we have, there is no reason for any of us to suffer weeks of these symptoms. None at all. It's more a matter of our M.D.s not being current on the technology.

[hunter]

109. Lexapro and Effexor are awful to quit.

The brain zaps are almost indescribable to someone who hasn't experience them. I always feel like "What, huh, where did I go?" when I come out of a strong zap, and it is very unpleasant.

I always keep a crash kit with me. If there is some disaster and it looks like the pharmacies won't be open any time soon, I always want to have enough medicine on hand that I can taper down to my wretched unmedicated self.

I did the Effexor crash quit once, because I couldn't afford it, and it was hellish. Never again will I attempt to quit an anti-depressant like that.

Nevertheless, when the meds work they are worth all the bother and side effects.

[gkhouston]

181. if you ever have to quit Effexor again, Benadryl seems to help

with the side effects. Even tapering off it was nasty nasty nasty.

[hunter]

184. It's remarkable how the immune system is wired into all this.

Benadryl is always a good drug to keep around. I know my own allergies pretty well at this point, but there are always unexpected surprises.

Thanks.

[Thor_MN]

196. Gee, what happens when a diabetic goes off insulin cold turkey again?

Oh yeah, that's right, they die....

[OhioChick]

124. You Sure Do.

Although much has been written questioning the efficacy and safety of antidepressant drugs, RxNews was, until now, unaware of the problems relating to withdrawal. But a new report authored by a colleague, Charles Medawar, raises concerns that the widespread enthusiasm about Prozac and similar antidepressants may be trapping people in a "web" of dependence (1997, The International Journal of Risk and Safety in Medicine, Volume 10).

After reviewing published studies and personal accounts, Medawar, who is director of the London-based consumer advocacy group Social Audit, concludes that the newer antidepressants known as serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (SSRIs) can cause significant problems of dependence and withdrawal. And, he claims, doctors are ignoring these problems with SSRIs (Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft are brand names). He also suggests that "depression is fast developing as an iatrogenic disease and that, however much they are part of the solution, antidepressant drugs seem much more implicated in the problem of depression than is supposed."

Because symptoms of SSRI withdrawal are often mistaken for a recurrence of depression, people are at risk of being unnecessarily prescribed more antidepressants. This potential for a drug treatment "merry go round" is not an insignificant problem given the widespread use of SSRIs and the belief that they are safer than older drugs. Additionally, mental and public health agencies have stepped up campaigns to diagnose and treat the millions of people they estimate are clinically depressed. The rapid growth of managed care compounds the risk. The Wall Street Journal has reported complaints from psychotherapists who say that managed care plans often overuse drugs to treat depression and other mental illnesses, in order to avoid higher-cost talk therapy.

A team of French and American psychiatrists researching antidepressant withdrawal concluded that "it is a frequent and often under-diagnosed phenomenon ... Withdrawal from antidepressants can produce transient changes in mood, affect, appetite and sleep, which might be incorrectly diagnosed as indicating a patient is having a relapse" (April 1996, CNS Drugs). According to the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry researchers at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston found, "Symptoms of discontinuation may be mistaken for physical illness or relapse into depression; misdiagnosing the symptoms may lead to unnecessary, costly tests and treatment."

http://depression.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=depression&cdn=health&tm=7&gps=130_320_1001_740&f=20&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=14&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.findarticles.com/m0815/n4_v23/20812816/p1/article.jhtml

[WritersBlock]

49. Are you a doctor? Can you explain to me why my blood pressure pills aren't a dependency?

Because if I go off them, my blood pressure goes up. Am I being maintained with a drug dependency?

[BearSquirrel2]

57. Hold on ...

People with depression committing suicide. Who takes anti-depressants. Your attribution is pretty shakey. There is a strong correlation between those who are depressed/unhappy and those who are taking anti-depressants. SSRIs are NOT rare!!!!

[Libface]

93. I almost killed myself (more than once) after being put on AD's for social anxiety at 15.

Depression wasn't to blame in my case. Both sides in the AD story should be heard.

[BearSquirrel2]

137. How do you know ...

I turned on my left blinker last night and then the light changed. I suppose since something follows there must be a causal relationship.

[TrogL]

140. Some anti-depressants do cause suicidal thoughts in teenagers

This was just confirmed recently. New warnings have been published.

[pookieblue]

58. you know...

there are cases in which Depression can be a sympton of another disease. A disease which does NOT go away. So that Depression needs to be treated.

That's the case with me. The meds DID save my life. They help, so that I can function every day.

Not every case of Depression, I'm sure does not need AD's. BUT there are cases that they do.

As I said before...I do think that before a person is rx'd an AD, they need to see a doctor who treats mental illness. Not get it from their family doctor.

[AngryOldDem]

81. And how many suicides would that be?

Anecdotal evidence, nothing more.

Administered correctly, and taken correctly, antidepressants are life-savers.

But thanks, anyway, for perpetrating the image that those with mental illness are just expected to suffer, or, to be more precise, "just snap out of it." Ignorance is perhaps the biggest battle those with depression or any other kind of mental illness have to face.

[Political Heretic]

150. This MSW says, bullshit.

[hunter]

18. I'm a crazy homeless guy without them... literally.

Fireworks circling a black hole of despair and emptiness.

When I'm not stable nobody wants to live with me; not my family, not my friends, not anyone... and I sure as hell don't want to live with them.

Without drugs and therapy I end up living in a car or a little shack somewhere, a feral sort of person entirely detached from society.

[melody]

20. Amen, brother. n/t

[comradebillyboy]

29. agree completely with yoy on this matter. n/t

[Orsino]

51. They may be so overprescribed that most patients derive little benefit...

...but some folks certainly do need these drugs. Lives are saved, or immeasurably improved.

[truedelphi]

78. Thank you for your very sane stance. n/t

[Libface]

91. And I almost died from taking them. It's not black or white. n/t

[melody]

99. Taking them off the psychiatric "market" is NOT a compromise choice

That is what the naysayers want ... to drive all anti-depressants off the market. Read the scientologist
bullshit, for instance -- it's all spelled out.

As I've said repeatedly, these medications are powerful. All powerful medications ARE dangerous, for the same
reason they are good and effective for those who need them. You didn't need them. I do.

[yardwork]

100. Your story is a good example of why people should take care in their comments.

It's easy to say dumb things on the internet without really thinking it through. I think that people post things that they would never, ever say in person. Things they probably don't even believe.

It's clear that meds have helped many people - including you and me. Anyone who flatly disputes that is simply ignoring a lot of information.

[melody]

105. Your post is a good example of why so few people make such comments

We stigmatize such experiences, as you have with your admonishment to me. There's no shame in these experiences. I've no reservations about sharing them -- I've said all that before here. Everyone who knows me, knows all that. I could have (and intended to do so) gone in prior to the editing period and clipped it all out with the old "self-delete" advisory because there are those people who insist upon looking down on others with difficult histories. I let my comments stand because a couple of PM's suggested I do so. I consciously decided to let them stand. If they made you feel awkward, that's your issue.

[yardwork]

106. I believe that you misunderstood my post. It was meant as support of your post.

I certainly did not intend to admonish you in any way. I was talking about posters who state that meds are never any good. Clearly, your experience proves otherwise, as does mine.

[Chovexani]

116. People are very ignorant about this disease

They don't get that's what it is, a disease, and can be every bit as deadly as cancer.

I have been on SSRIs in the past and they helped immensely. I think they are over-prescribed but they DO serve a very valuable purpose and can mean the difference between being able to function and death for some people.

I wish people would take a moment to walk in someone else's shoes. My peeve is people who go on about Social Anxiety Disorder being "just shyness" and then bitch about people taking pills for it. People who are "just shy" don't freak out in crowds to the point where they get dizzy and hyperventilate. I've had panic attacks due to SAD that were that bad.

Yes these drugs are overprescribed and there is too much marketing by Big Pharma creating a nation of hypochrondiacs but that is no reason to go all Tom Cruise on people for taking pills. Some of us really need them to deal with our illnesses.

[fed-up]

15. they did make me manic & kick started me out of severe depression-but at first made me MORE SUICIDAL

then I had ever been in my life. My thought patterns were way different than I had ever experienced. I only took them for a few weeks as it was determined that if they made me manic then I was bipolar.

My immune system reacted to the anticonvulsant used for bipolar, so I stopped that after about 9 days.

I do believe that they cause can cause changes in mood, but for how much and how long is impossible to determine, just as it is almost impossible to determine if medications for MS work as both are cylical. Most companies do not publish the percentage of people that improve with the meds versus placeboes. It may be only one to two percent...and with statistical rates of error at plus or minus 3....

I am afraid to take anything else after doing a ton more research. It seems that at least 50% of people STOP their antidepressants due to adverse effects. How many of those stopped due to things like weight gain as opposed to falling into a more severe depression or complete and total loss of feelings is not really known.

The drug companies made huge amounts of profit off these drugs.

They may help a select few, just as they may trigger massive killing sprees in others.


The testing and reporting of adverse effects needs to be greatly improved!

[TrogL]

19. I just restarted trazodone and it's a miracle

Granted trazodone is NOT an SSRI. I've been on them all and they're not for me mostly cause of side effects. The one that worked the best WAS Prozac, but orgasming during staff meetings is an interesting experience in the Chinese curse meaning of the word.

The problem is that many family doctors are prescribing SSRI's for situational depression. All it does is make you feel so crappy that your too sick to pay attention to being depressed. Try Paxil sometime when it's not for you.

[dysfunctional press]

21. wellbutrin worked for me.

but i haven't taken or needed it in years.

[TrogL]

34. I had to go off it

was getting tarkive dyskensia.

[TrogL]

141. oops, that was Effexor

Wellbutrin gave me seizures.

You have to keep trying until you find the right anti-depressant. It might not be an SSRI.

[olddad56]

30. I've tried my share of SSRI's but the only thing that helped me is trazadone.

And it is an old tricyclic from the 70's or so.

[conflictgirl]

35. I had a similar situation

I've tried every single SSRI (for lifelong, not situational, depression) and absolutely none of them helped me. However, I did take a low dose of Elavil, a tricyclic, for a couple years for headaches, and it actually helped me quite a bit. I didn't put together until after I went off it that it had been making such a difference since I didn't know it was actually an antidepressant when it was prescribed.

I wonder how many people would do better on an old tricyclic than an SSRI? Doctors almost never prescribe the tricyclics any more because they seem to be so convinced that the SSRIs are better.

[TrogL]

41. If it weren't for the dry mouth, I would have stayed on tricyclics

They actually do work fairly well for some people.

[clspector]

132. I agree

Years ago, I was prescribed Elavil for pain. It helped with the pain and also with the devastating depression I'd had since I was 13. I don't know why the tricyclics aren't used much anymore except maybe it has to do with how much money the drug companies can make off the newer, non-generic, versions.

And according to my therapist, one of the times when depressed people are most vulnerable to suicide is not when they're in the bottom of a depressed cycle, but when they're coming out of the depression. Perhaps that explains why people on anti-depressants might be more vulnerable to suicide. Or it could be that THEY'RE SUICIDAL BECAUSE THEY'RE DEPRESSED!!!! (sheesh.)

[comradebillyboy]

27. anti depressants wrecked my sex life but saved my sanity

but testosterone and Viagra fixed the sex problem. I like drugs, but then I'm a boomer who went to college in the 60's. Better living through chemistry.

[PDJane]

28. I think I've taken almost every antidepressant

known to mankind. Depression runs in my family, and I was probably the only depressed three-year-old you'd ever have met. I have said other places that I always knew when my father and my uncle were getting depressed; my father would have another affair, and my uncle would steal a car. That's only partly a joke, it has a very serious basis in fact.

There are herbals that help, but they are a short-term thing, and the business of taking them every few hours gets tiring, although I do still take them to assist sleep problems. I also have fibromyalgia, which means that I don't get stage 3 & 4 sleep.

I have found two anti-depressants that work to at least blunt the worst of it. One is Norpramine. Unfortunately, one of the side effects means that I ate enough fibre to turn into a wicker chair and still ended up constipated most of the time. The other is Prozac, and I've had no major side effects with the SSRI drugs. It doesn't work completely, but it leaves me able to function, and that's a very good thing. Otherwise, I tend to lose my keys, forget to eat or overeat because I've forgotten that I've eaten, lose time, lose money, become anti-social and suicidal and generally become a pain in the ass to live with. I can't even live with me.

Is that the normal experience? I don't think it is, although Prozac has been a lifesaver for a number of people of my acquaintance.

Do the drug companies over-promote the stuff? yeah, you bet they do. It doesn't work all the time for everyone; some folks would benefit from a placebo, and others wouldn't benefit from anything. Others tend to self-medicate, and the combination of drugs and alcohol produces interesting behaviour, and yes, I've lived with someone with that problem too.

However, taking it off the market when there are so many people these drugs do help isn't the answer.

[hunter]

67. Depression runs in my family too.

Somehow those of us afflicted have managed to avoid blatantly unlawful thrill seeking (no car thieves that I know of) but as a young man whenever my depression peaked I would throw everything to the wind, burn all my bridges, and do something crazy. I got kicked out of college twice, and I alienated a number of senior thesis advisors before I graduated.

I've also got some bad OCD, and I can easily forget to eat when my depression is out of control. I'm not sure what the OCD is about, because it's not entirely useless. I've always felt the OCD keeps me away from thoughts of suicide, because if I was gone who would do the things I am compelled to do? There's a worrisome aspect about that too -- what would happen if I took a medicine that suppressed the OCD but not the depression? There's a lot of ways suicide and anti-depressants might be linked, but I think the most common one has got to be a kind of overshoot effect. If you stop taking anti-depressants too quickly, or you miss doses, you fall below your unmedicated baseline for a time, and life sucks more than if you'd never taken the medicine.

If I've learned anything by my own experiences it's that anyone who starts or changes their anti-depressants needs to be carefully monitored by a mental health professional. When my meds are not right I have almost no ability to judge my own mental state. In my deepest holes I'm pretty sure nobody is looking out for me, and I am very suspicious of any interventions by well meaning friends and family. It took me much too long to accept that I must have some kind of support system of friends, family and professionals or I simply drift away to places no rational person would go.

I calculate that maybe 30% of my life has been spent in the land of :wtf: . Without my meds that grim statistic would be increasing, and I'd be living alone in a box somewhere.

Nevertheless, I'm certain that many or most anti-depressant prescriptions are inappropriate, and that this problem is entirely the result of aggressive pharmaceutical company marketing. One can open almost any magazine and find advertisements for powerful medicines with very troublesome and even dangerous side effects that won't do anything positive for most of the people who "ask" their doctors about them.

[doodadem]

70. Depression and Bipolar Genetics Here

Father a depressive, both sisters, when they were alive, hospitalized and suicidal, brother who succeeded in committing suicide. Further back, I have grandparents and uncles with similar histories.

I'm bipolar, as I think my younger brother is. Without Lexapro, I go from plummeting the black depths of What's the Use, No One Cares, and I Think I'll Just Check Out, to all kinds of energy, as in, Let's Vacuum the Lawn at 3:00 in the morning. I prefer the later. I get more done.

Unless you've lived with this kind of misery, it's easy to dismiss. Bipolar/manic depression has become the psychiatric flavor of the week, and I think there is a lot of misdiagnosis out there.

[EFerrari]

32. I agree with you that what we call depression is more than one thing.

And I don't like any of 'em. :)

[Hannah Bell]

33. History repeats itself....

There have been several waves of psych meds since the turn of the century.

In each case there was a big initial wave of hype; everybody was gonna be cured or at least get better.

Use went up, lots of studies showing great benefits...

Then the letdown; studies showing fewer benefits, or fraud, or harm.

Expect a new generation of psych meds soon, & they'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread too.

[melody]

38. I cannot tell you how angry this kind of post makes me

Every generation of psych meds HAS helped people. Each one gets better.

It's only when we're discussing psych meds that people get prissy -- there are similar problems with advanced
pain medication but because everyone has experienced physical pain, no one balks at their use. If everyone had
experienced mental pain, we wouldn't have all this crap either.

[Mountainman]

89. There will always be a stigma attached to mental illness, one which let's healthy people tell

mentally ill people to "snap out of it" and such. I really believe that some people just do not believe there is such a thing as mental illness. Their answer to everything is to just do what people with out mental illness do.

Now if you had another type of disease they would be sympathetic and not tell you to try and heal yourself.

I say screw them, because for years I listened to them and I suffered physically, economically and socially so did my family. Now I am better so just screw them!

[hunter]

95. That's the tradition in the United States -- to blame those who fall through the cracks.

If someone is not functional in this society it is always their fault.

"Get a job. Work hard. Tough it out." If you can't do that, well then, you are a loser.

Mental illness is not recognized for what it is. My own grandmother by any measure was crazy, yet my entire childhood I remember my mom crying and fighting and arguing with her mom as if her mom was a rational person. She wasn't. My grandma was a passive-aggressive hoarder with an extreme personality disorder. (Hah, rhymes!) She didn't interact with people in normal ways, and my mom's dad was little better. I guess my mom survived in that household by denying the obvious. Her parents were insane.

To a large extent my mom still denies her parents were crazy, and she is still contemptuous of what she sees as my "weakness." A few times she has asked me why I couldn't just be "strong." That used to hurt, but not anymore... I'm over it. I was kicked out of college twice, and my mom never once asked me why because it was easier for her to pretend I was simply lazy rather than crazy.

It is so right to protest.

[spoony]

146. Hear hear, thank you for your posts

I hope some have sunk in, but the ignorance runs very, very deep on this issue. (It was one thing to read horrible comments to the article about people needing to cheer up and deal with their problems, etc., it's quite another to see them here. Quite disheartening.)

[EFerrari]

52. You are negatively describing a process called "learning". n/t

[klebean]

44. studies on ADs

have suppressed negative and no effects.

The problem in my view is that many ADs are RX'd by GPs who are getting handouts from Pharma.
What clients need to do is deal w/a psychopharmacologist who is well versed in the research and literature.

There are so many types of ADs and so many types of disorders comormid w/depression that assigning a prescription is an art form.
As is diagnosis.

As always, buyer beware.

[TrogL]

45. I totally agree

In a perfect world, GP's should not be prescribing anti-depressants. Unfortunately there aren't enough psychiatrists to go around so the GP's have to try something.

[raccoon]

65. And a lot of people don't have the do-re-mi to pay psychiatrists,

and as we know lots of people don't have insurance and even if you're lucky enough to have it, many times they don't pay much on visits to the psychiatrist.

[Libface]

94. Agreed, which is why doctors need access to unbiased, objective information, rather than

being "sold" on these meds with "conferences" in Hawaii or whatever. That's the core problem in my opinion. These meds are not just like any other product and the companies should not be allowed to sell them the way they do, or police themselves and decide what studies are actually relevant, etc.

[Qanisqineq]

46. I would disagree

As someone who has suffered from depression since I was a teenager, I am hopeless without them.

About a week ago, my brother-in-law's girlfriend killed herself. She'd been on anti-depressants for years and wanted to try life without them. Two weeks later she was dead.

[Kitty Herder]

47. They were never of any use to me. At all. nt

[TrogL]

48. Did you try them all?

Including the tricyclics, wierd ones like trazodone, and the other reuptake inhibitors?

[Kitty Herder]

143. Honestly, pretty much, yeah. Here's a list of the ones I've tried:

Effexor, trazodone(great sleep aid, but not good for much else), zoloft, paxil, prozac, celexa, lexapro, cymbalta, remeron, welbutrin, elavil and norpramin.

I've had chronic depression since childhood and they've tried everything on me except the MAOIs which are pretty scary shit. I finally gave up on antidepressants. I found that anti-anxiety meds help by treating the underlying anxiety. I've also found that yoga and meditation help. Who woulda thunk it?

Anyway, I still suffer from depression, but I have found some non-chemical coping skills that help. It's obvious that I have screwed up brain chemistry, but the antidepressants don't seem to help with that for me. I know they do for some, but my understanding is that they are most useful in common, temperary depression, not this chronic kind that I suffer from.

[emad]

50. Recent report in the UK said exercise was the best overall

anti-depressant for moderate to significant depression cases of at least one year plus.

Also in the report was that recalibrating the body's ability for deep natural sleep via melatonin therapy often kick-starts depressives' healing process.

Nicotine damage was also rated as a significant contaminant that can lead to chronic depression.

[soothsayer]

55. Generally pills are equally effective as talk therapy. Used to be that they'd give you pills

if they didn't want to deal with you (the poor, minorities) but now it's just big (huge) business.

[BearSquirrel2]

56. Anxiety ...

SSRIs also have noted effects as anti-anxiety drugs. How you measure could greatly affect your findings.

[Peace Patriot]

59. Poor little pills just have to work too hard, with these depressing mugs on TV

strutting around to "Hail to the Chief!" and their perky little office assistants with names like Condi trying to bring about Peace With Oil. Give us our country back, and maybe the pills won't have to do so much heavy lifting.

[Tracer]

60. I disagree with "of little use"!

My daughter is trying to stop smoking, and is using Chantix.

Unfortunately, Chantix causes depression! She went into a deep funk, and she had over a month of weeping, withdrawal and depression --- to the point that I was extremely worried about her.

She asked her doctor for an anti-depressant and he prescribed Zoloft. Within 3 days, she was back to her old self.

After the Chantix regimen is done, she plans to quit the Zoloft.

[electron_blue]

63. Just pointing out that this is not the first study to show this.

For example, here's a link to a study from 2002.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/20/1034561389128.html

These and other studies show that there appears to be a clinical difference in how patients respond to these meds, depending on the severity of their depression.

[LiberalEsto]

64. They've done miracles for me

In addition to allowing me to function normally, one of my meds - as a side effect - got rid of a bad case of benign positional vertigo that disabled me for several years.

I just wish the prices weren't so damned high and my co-pays hadn't gone up over 1000% since the Bush Misadministration took office.

[MrsBrady]

66. to the men!!!

since we are on this topic....

For the men:
My husband (we have been married for just over a year) has been on 200mgs of Zoloft for years.
He can't function without it. He would be not only depressed. He says he can't think clearly, can't control his mood, and if not for going to work would never leave the house so as to not have to socialize. He also has dyscalculia (which is a numbers/math related LD) that he says is worse if he doesn't take it.

I wanted to let you all know that my husband (I am 35, he's 34) was found to have low testosterone about 6 months ago.
Now there is a whole process for determining this, and many men, especially younger men, show no obvious symptoms, until the Dr starts asking questions. His low testosterone was found on a routine physical after they got the results from his blood test.
So the doctor eventually prescribed testosterone gel.

Here is what we found out from the Doctor and with a little research on our own: 1)low testosterone can cause depression in men (and also over time, bone density problems). So before a doctor throws some anti-depressants at you, get a physical, and get your testosterone level checked. You may still need the Zoloft, but if your testosterone is low, there will still be some "left over" issues. 2)My husband has found that his energy level and constant fatigue that he couldn't get rid of is gone! No more overly tired for what seems like no reason. 3)In the last couple of weeks, because he is now on testosterone, he has been able to back off to 150mgs of Zoloft. This is a real coup! We hope he can lower it more later!

As an aside, for those who know the side effects of Zoloft, (I'm trying to be polite here) I can't tell you how much a low testosterone level combined with Zoloft can make a man feel bad about himself. When all the time it's been a hormone/brain chemistry issue.
4) Also, over time taking Zoloft may cause lower bone density in men. So you can imagine if your testosterone level is low, and low testosterone can cause bone density problems (my husband had a bone scan and he was found to be on the verge of a pre-osteoporosis condition!!!) what kind of issues this can cause later on. 5) My husband has also started taking calcium and vitamin D to repair his bone damage, per the Doctor. Vitamin D deficiency has been shown to cause depression and is also tied to immune system health. He used to be sick all of the time with flu, colds, viral and bacterial infections...non stop.

He's been on the testosterone, calcium and D for about 4 months now. He hasn't been sick, his mood is better, the tiredness is gone,...and like I said, he's lowered his Zoloft to 150!

So it's all kind of tied in together for him.
Get your testosterone level checked. If they do find your testosterone level is low, they will probably want to do a bone scan to check your bone density. It can take a couple of years of taking calcium/d and testosterone to repair bone damage, the Dr said. And from my own reading, if you are on Zoloft, even without testosterone issues, I would take calcuim/d to prevent bone and immune problems.

Anyway I hope this helps. My husband is finally getting better, and I wanted to share this with you all, in case someone might need the info.


Me? I'm a musician/artist. As long as I am doing something with that, and stay away from the corporate world (just got out again! whew!)...
If I do that, no depression for me. Doing something you don't like or that goes against your values would make anyone sick/depressed!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

68. I think the hormone/depression link is one...

that has be really looked at and explored by the medical community. I have been reading more articles about men like your husband having depression related to low testosterone.

When I started perimenopause and the hormones started shifting, I got hit with a depression like none I had ever experienced. Everything would make me cry -- I could go off dozens of times a day. As the years passed and I became more and more emotionally vulnerable, I tried every type of non-pharmacuetical treatment I could: exercise, therapy, herbs, supportive vitamins, acupuncture. But it only got worse, and the depression became suicidal. I was so very resistent to do it, but it finally got so bad I opted ofr meds, the first couple of attempts were not good -- the meds were just not the right ones for me. I finally hit on Celexa - within hours of the first dose the racing thoughts stopped, the tears stopped, and I felt more "normal" than I had in around 4 years -- it was truly miraculous. I began to research the connection between estrogen production and seratonin -- it is crystal clear to me the mental health effects of lowered estrogen/testosterone is profound for some folks like your husband and myself.

Interestingly, just a few years ago when both my sister and my Mom had their ovaries removed due to benign tumors, they both tailspinned into massive depressive episodes with weeks after the surgery. Luckily I knew what was going on due to what had happened to me and was able to advise them to seek help. They are both now on Celexa and have had a great result.

I thank the gods daily for my Celexa. If this had been another era, I am 100% certain I would have ended up dead or locked up in the local insane asylum. :scared:

[BluePatriot]

77. Ditto on hormone/depression link

Ask anyone with thyroid disease...

I am actually starting to think heavy research into the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis and the associated cascade of imbalances would provide the biological basis for a lot of mood problems and turn psychiatry on its ear. However this approach would challenge so many preconceptions and take a very courageous doctor. I think Dr. Arem is close.

http://www.amazon.com/Thyroid-Solution-Revolutionary-Mind-Body-Program/dp/0345429206

/Hashimoto's Disease with transient Hyperthyroid phases...yes, Hyper...yes, uncommon....
//yeah, it does look a lot like bipolar
///hate doctors caring about my labs only and not recognizing how disabling the symptoms can get
////visiting new expensive holistic doc soon and I hope to god I can feel well for more than 3 mos at a time

[Libface]

96. I completely agree. Adrenal fatigue and other hormonal imbalances can "mimic"

depression and other mental illness very well. I think it should be standard procedure to check the hormones thoroughly before diagnosing any mental illness.

[BluePatriot]

164. On the other hand,

...drugs like anti depressants can help symptoms while a hormone imbalance is corrected. So, I guess they do have a use. I have found herbals, etc, that work out for me but others may not respond to them.

I'll chime in and say I take 200mg of 5-HTP. I am fond of it. Eventually I just had to up and take something b/c of the thyroid effects. Why take an SSRI when nature made one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HTP

[TrogL]

174. AKA Tryptophan

I'm on it for sleep.

[BluePatriot]

180. Not quite the same

I think 5-HTP is different from plain tryptophan. The Wiki page says it's a metabolite. I take mine at night anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan

One time recently I inadvertently bought the wrong dose (lower...) 8 or 9 moody, sick days later, I realized my error and got back on the right dose. Makes such a difference in so many ways. And I was very surprised to find it lessens some physical symptoms of mine, perhaps related to serotonin imbalance. I don't feel well all the time (thyroid) but this helps me deal with chronic illness better. The bonus is that it's an appetite suppressant too. When your metabolism has gone stupid, not wanting to eat helps. I am thankful that I tried this stuff.

//disclaimer: not medical advice, get SSRIs if you need them, herbal remedies FTW! is only in my case and maybe not any of yours, etc, etc

[BlueIris]

69. Um, that's...just simply not true.

My ultra-paranoid brain is getting scared for all of the people who may now abandon treatment based in part on this alarmist headline. Jesus H. Christ.

[Lilith Velkor]

120. Some of those people could be those who react badly to the meds

and then go buy a gun and take it to school or the mall. Ever think about that?

[melody]

123. There is no proof that SSRIs cause those things ... although mental illness does

SSRIs can be helpful for mental illness.

[Lilith Velkor]

170. Thank you for not listening.

Or, in this case, not reading the words, "bad reaction to" and only reading, SSRIs.

Perhaps an elementary logic and semantics course would be helpful, in addition to reading comprehension. Here's a hint: look up "strawman argument."

[pookieblue]

177. when I was taking Rebif

(which is a MS Med) it caused me to become extremely agressive. The point where I was starting fights with people which not in my character.

I guess we should pull that one off the market too...even though it is helping people.

All of the meds effect people differently. Not just AD's. Sometimes side effects can be very bad with some. but also, the same meds can be lifesavers for others.

Just because I had a bad experince with one medicine doesn't mean everyone will.

[Jennicut]

72. I take Lexapro. I've been told I have very low seratonin levels.

I have always had some kind of depression for no reason and would cry at the drop of a hat starting in elementary school until I could not take it any more in college. I started taking prozac and it made me feel better for years but then two years ago it stopped working and I returned to the over sensitive depression. I was told by my doctor that people can become immune to the drug after taking it for a long time so I switched to Lexapro and feel very good on that one. Drugs just don't work for some people but for me it has made things so much better. Its like a little switch goes off in my brain when I take the drug. If I don't take it for a day or too I have trouble concentrating and get very down very quickly. Ironically, chocolate also helps raise seratonin levels which might be why I'm addicted to it. Oh well.

[Acadia Blue]

73. In my case its situational. Katrina ect. Also depressed about the

economy, and the future of our country or lack of future.

[happyslug]

74. I have seen such medication work wonders, and do no good.

I have been helping people get Supplemental Security Income (SSI) for almost 20 years. In that time period I have had several people in my office who suffered varying levels of Depression. In cases where people are suffering from what Social Security calls "Marked" or "Severe" limitations, the medication has done wonders. On people whose limitations tend to be less, i.e. "mild" to "moderate" limitations, as those terms are used by SSA, such medications seems to help, but not as well as the more severe cases. I have had cases where the Medication was doing no good (But these tend to be people suffering from what others in this tread call "Situational" depression i.e. loss of a love one etc, NOT someone suffering from long term depression). This difference comes to a head in SSI cases, how bad is the claimant given all reasonable medical treatment? With all reasonable medical treatment (including taking medication) can the person do work that exist in substantial numbers in the National Economy?

As to being anti-depression medication being prescribe, given what I have seen, I will always go with what the Psychiatrist want. I have rarely seen a psychiatrist prescribe the medication unless it is needed. I suspect some General Practitioners, but GPs in my area tend to just renew what a Psychiatrist had previously prescribe as oppose to prescribing new. Thus I have to defer to such medical experts whether the medication should be prescribed, but if it is I advise anyone to take the medication as prescribe, and if they have any side affects report it to their Doctor.

Now I have seen Prozac prescribe for reasons OTHER than depression, for example I have seen it prescribe for Severe menstrual cramps, where it seems to work (I have seen birth Control pills prescribe for the same reason). Please note these were prescribe to women with SEVERE cramps (i.e. almost bending over in pain do to the cramps) NOT for any underlying mental problem. It just shows you ho your mental condition can affect your body and how your body can affect your mental condition.

As to exercise, this report is from England, where people tend to walk more than Americans do to the high cost of fuel compare to gasoline prices in the US (Yes, prices are high in the US, but even higher in England). Given there is a connection between getting out in the sun (Even in Winter), Exercise in general AND depression, the fact people in England tend to walk more than Americans is a factor. Simply put the study may just reflect that people in England must walk to the local bus stop as opposed to Americans driving to work. I try to get my clients to get out as much as possible, but many just can not do to their depression. It is difficult for some to get out (and these tend to be the people who benefit from Medication the most) but getting out in the sun (even of snow is on the ground) does wonders for people.

As to the people who suffered from "problems" do to taking the medications, that is why I advise my clients to tell their doctors about ANY side affects including any suicidal or homicidal thoughts. The medications to reduce these thoughts a good bit in most of my clients (Remember I am a Lawyer trying to get them SSI, NOT a medical provider), but side affects do occur. Often it takes several attempts at various different medications to find the one that works. Again I have to defer to the Medical experts on how to work this out.

Just some comments on this report and why it may just to nothing, it may affect that more people use public transportation in Britain then in the US and thus are out in the Sun and Walking more than people in the US. I notice they tend to exclude the most sever cases, cases which shows the most good done by the Medication. The report may reflect excessive prescription for minor depression (Where these medications do the least good)m, where such prescription is done to minimize other treatment that may be more helpful (and are more costly do to the fact you have to have a live body help the person in the therapy, individual counseling or even group therapy).

What I have seen in the last 20 years of my practice is that when Doctor rely on just one "cure" for depression, it tend to be medication and while it works most of the time, when it does not these doctors are failing their patients. Where the Drugs are part of a larger overall treatment of the patient (Including counseling sessions, group session etc) they are highly effective, for in such situations the weaknesses of the drugs are seen and acted upon (i.e. change prescription or increase other treatments i.e therapy, Group Sessions etc). Thus such drugs are best used in a overall treatment program not by themselves.

[AngryAmish]

75. Evidence Based Medicine creates many angry people

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence-based_medicine>
"Evidence-based medicine (EBM) aims to apply evidence gained from the scientific method to certain parts of medical practice. It seeks to assess the quality of evidence<1> relevant to the risks and benefits of treatments (including lack of treatment). According to the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, "Evidence-based medicine is the conscientious, explicit and judicious use of current best evidence in making decisions about the care of individual patients."<2>"

Much of medicine is not science based. As one can see in many of the above-thread comments many people feel very strongly that these medicines help. Many feel strongly that they hinder or worse. Much of this is faith based (in some cases literally faith based-- see the Scientologist anti-psychotropic drug crusade). Reason is not very compatible with faith.

Anyway, I hope someday all of medicine will be evidence based.

(As an aside medical expert systems - computer programs - do a better job, on average, of diagnosing many diseases. Yet who would trust an expert system especially when there is an intelligent looking person in front of them advocating a different diagnosis and or treatment plan? On average you are better off with the expert system but since our brains do not properly compute odds, then folks are more likely to go with the human.)

[truthisfreedom]

76. You got that right. And I'm on an antidepressant.

[melody]

107. Genuine expression of feelings make some people who dislike emotions uncomfortable

Ergo, they lift their noses and point toward the tin gods of science.

As a scientist myself, I know this stance makes scientists feel better, but you're all still stuck on
the planet of the apes with us monkeys. lol

[TrogL]

142. anti-depressants go through clinical trials exactly as described in your link

Better them than homeopathic crap.

A friend of mine sells some sort of white cream that cures depression, warts and cancer.

[goodgd_yall]

80. Anecdotal evidence of course, but

I had a life-long history of depression that evaporated once I started taking an SSRI. This was after years of "toughening it out" and only using talking therapy and everything but medication. Even with a good living situation I still had many bouts of depression, but not anymore. I haven't read the article yet, but just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth.

[AngryAmish]

84. There is no evidence talking therapy does any good either

That also is depressing.

[Summer93]

85. AD and alcohol

I know two people who take anti-depressants and also drink alcohol daily. I thought that is a no-no. I thought that the alcohol is a depressant so, it would seem that these people are canceling the benefits of the anti-depressant?
These people now are very quick to speak out about what and who they do not like.

[yardwork]

104. Most SSRIs are very hard on the liver, as is alcohol.

It's a very bad idea to drink alcohol while taking most anti-depressants. They're both hard on the liver, which means that it is harder for one's body to rid itself of the daily toxins that build up. People can end up with compromised liver function, which can lead to liver cancer in extreme cases and always leads to poorer health.

When I first taking SSRIs I found it difficult to quit drinking. This was my clue that I had a drinking problem. I gave it up entirely and am much happier. Alcoholism can be a form of self-medication for folks like me who have fought depression all their lives.

And yes, alcohol is a depressant (even though intoxication makes one feel "high" for a brief time), so alcohol is never good for depression.

[melody]

108. Most SSRIs are NOT liver toxic

As the daughter of someone who died from liver disease (due to alcoholism and Valium use), I'd never have taken ANY
SSRI that had a liver side effect.

Try again.

Many clinical depressives before the age of SSRIs were alcoholics. That's how they self-medicated. My mother was one.
I live in the age of SSRIs and the strongest thing I drink is iced tea. lol

[Mountainman]

87. Well, this will be a tread where those with no experience will be the experts and those of us

with years of depression and medications will be written off as junkies who can just "get over it"!

Fuck all you know it alls, your not helping people with your junk theories!

[melody]

110. It's the "Let it Be" phenomenon

It is said that John Lennon hated the song "Let it Be". McCartney has said he wrote it, in part, to help himself
deal with their breakup. Whatever it was that helped McCartney split from Lennon and heal through the process may
be what Lennon hated.

The Rolling Stones (agreeing with Lennon's dislike of the song) wrote a nasty one called "Let it Bleed". There are those
who insist upon making people "bleed" and those who heal themselves with such ideas as "Let it Be".

I'm one of the "Let it Be" people. I suspect many of the more extreme anti-AD folk are the "bleed" people who want to rip
open peoples' wounds and make them react, possibly because they themselves don't have the same degree of sensitivity.

[Libface]

113. I'm not anti-AD's, but I get very defensive when people write-off the

suicidal "side-effect" due to people already being depressed and I also get very defensive when people seem to want to suppress information that is not in favor of something just because they themselves are. The pharma companies should NOT have repressed studies, period. It had a huge affect on my life and there is no recourse for me, no one held accountable. If this kind of information getting out helps doctors and patients make better-informed decisions, then I don't understand the reaction by some that anything negative said against antidepressants is somehow negative against the depressed. I'm glad antidepressants help people, trust me I am (family members), but I am not going to *not* talk about my story just because AD's are helpful for some. They are not black and white, either or. They have done much to help people and have also caused much harm and we should be able to look at the whole picture.

[melody]

114. No one is saying ADs are for everyone ... no one is saying info should be suppressed

I'm saying there is a huge "anti-science"/"anti-pharmacology" community on DU that HATES the idea of anyone
benefiting from medications. That's what I'm responding to. So many of us went so many years being told
there was nothing to be done. Depression kills people. It killed my mother. This is just as surely the case
as your own negative story is the case.

As I keep saying, these meds are VERY powerful ... they should be used with caution by people who know what they
are doing. The best medications ARE dangerous ones. It's their power that makes them dangerous.

[Lilith Velkor]

119. Would it kill you to have a little empathy for those who can't take SSRIs?

Can you imagine going through depression, the pills not working or making it worse, and having everyone around you tell you you are delusional and need to snap out of it, stop worrying and love the pills? I think you can.

I have not seen anybody on this thread advocating banning them. I certainly don't.

But would it be harmful to LISTEN, instead of freaking the fuck out and getting all judgmental?

[melody]

122. No one is "freaking the fuck out", least of all being judgmental -- except you perhaps

I've listened and listened and listened. When I see these posts, I respond. I state my case. So long as they comply with DU rules, I'm not going to curb my comments to satisfy you. You don't want to read them, put me on ignore.

There are plenty of the "ADs are bad" people around. There are only a handful of us that reply. I'm one.

To put me on ignore, go to my message and hit the red X -- this automatically ignores my posts.

[Lilith Velkor]

169. Thank you for your condescension.

Seems like the answer to my questions are, in order, "yes" and "no."

You might want to try a remedial reading comprehension course, so that you will be able in the future to distinguish between "SSRIs don't work for everybody" and "ADs are bad." Unless, of course, your purpose is to build a man made out of straw.

[melody]

183. You're looking to have an argument with someone

As such, welcome to *my* ignore list.

[FloridaJudy]

102. I've been tremendously helped by antidepressants

But then I'm not taking them for depression: I'm on an older class of antidepressant for management of chronic pain. I'm just afraid some people will use this as an excuse to bash those of us who really need them, or as yet another excuse by insurance companies to deny claims.

[Lorien]

111. BIG PHARMA does NOT want you to know that there is something far more

effective out there. It's been proven 87% effective over 27 years, unlike Prozac which has only a 13% success rate. And it works with NO SIDE EFFECTS:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=276&topic_id=1649&mesg_id=1649

[melody]

112. I have a friend trying this now due to your recommendation

If she does well with it, I may give it a shot myself.

Thanks for being an advocate for this approach. I think it's a sound one.

[Lorien]

115. So far I've lent out my backup Alpha-stim seven times

and six of the people who have used it have purchased one themselves and have gotten off drugs completely. The seventh person thought it was some kind of electro-shock device and was too afraid to use it, even though she had used a TENS unit in the past (the Alpa-stim is not a TENS unit, but the pulsations feel like very mild TENS pulses). I hope that your friend is as happy with the results as they are!

[FloridaJudy]

161. Do you need an Rx for that?

I suffer from chronic pain, and that sounds exciting. I'll have to ask my family doctor and my psychiatrist about it. I've found meditation helps, but maybe I'd do even better with a boost.

[TrogL]

144. Oh, you've GOT to be fucking kidding

I've got some snake oil I could sell you. It'd better for you 'cause it's got Omega 3-6-9 fatty acids that are actually proven to help cognition.

[Lorien]

154. TrogL, read the CLINICAL STUDIES before you post such hostle remarks

This technology WORKS and works far better than antidepressants. It is FDA APPROVED-it sure as hell is not "snake oil". It literally saved my life and the lives of three of my friends. Several other DUers have tried it and now use it regularly. Don't slander something that you obviously know absolutely nothing about. As any doctor who is up on the most recent technologies and they will tell you that devices like this are a major part of the future of medicine.

[TrogL]

165. OK, post a link to the clinical studies in a peer-reviewed journal

Go for it. I dare you.

[TrogL]

193. Still waiting

Could be awhile.

[babydollhead]

117. It's not too much to wake up happy for whatever the day brings

without AD my marriage would be over, my kids would be petrified of me and I would have killed myself. I had aggrivated depression, where you are pissed off all the time and sometimes moved to rage and fury. I never stopped thinking, "I'm going to die here", like a gong.
I knew it worked when my five year old peed on the couch in his sleep and my first thought was, "What a tired boy!" instead of "mother fucker!! why did you do this to me?!?"...
I didn't want to raise my children as a madwoman. What I mean is I know what it is to see red. I also know that they could pickle my brain in Zoloft and my husband would STILL be an asshole. I just don't take his assholiness personally.

[Critters2]

118. I tried every anti-depressant known to humankind, and a bunch of anti-anxieties, too.

None did any good. What helped was a combination of cognitive behavioral therapy and 12 step work (Emotions Anonymous). I still do EA, though I had fallen away from it for a while.

This isn't to say that drugs don't help others, but they did me more harm than good, overall.

[OhioChick]

125. I've Tried Nearly All Anti-D's

Know to man for chronic pain. (Fibromyalgia) They all made me suicidal and I've never been suicidal in my life.

I know of some people that anti-d's have tremendously helped......as well as hurt.

[conflictgirl]

147. All of the SSRIs had the same effect on me!

My doctors said it was impossible and that it must mean I was bipolar. I'm really relieved to hear that someone else had a similar experience, not because you had to experience it too but because at least now I know for sure I wasn't the rare anomaly they said I was!

[OhioChick]

148. Amazing to run into you....

Doctors said the same about me...."Impossible." This after they kept trying me on all of them. If one said that they became suicidal after taking them (without any prior suicidal tendencies) would you insist that they still be taken? Amazes me....

[Political Heretic]

157. Welbutrin is not a traditional SSRI -- talked to your doc about that one?

[OhioChick]

158. Already Tried That One....Same Effect.

I Tried anti-d's from all groups:

Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs)
Serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs)
Noradrenergic and specific serotonergic antidepressants (NASSAs)
Norepinephrine (noradrenaline) reuptake inhibitors (NRIs)
Norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitors
Tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs)

Same Effect: Suicidal

Thanks for the thoughts, though. :)

[Political Heretic]

159. Oh damn... sorry maybe I didn't read your post carefully enough

...erm... if you were feeling suicidal I would have stopped trying to treat with any of these groups up front. Though, what am I talking about?!?... I'm exceeding my credentials here.

As an MSW, I don't prescribe, but as you might know I do diagnose and an intimately familiar with treatment options.

[OhioChick]

168. I Gave Up Trying All of Them....

Don't Need My Family Coming Home and Finding Me Dead One Day. Physicians Have Since Concluded That I'm Chemically Sensitive to All of These Meds.

[conflictgirl]

162. I had some luck with Wellbutrin for a while

Wellbutrin seemed to help my depression for a couple years, but my husband noticed that I had started to become very paranoid and agitated. I then quit taking it, but tried again a few months ago and it was nearly instant paranoia and agitation. I'm not sure why it seemed to suddenly stop having a positive effect, especially since it worked well for a while.

[bitchkitty]

126. They were magic for me.

I was already really down and in personal crisis when my mother died suddenly this September. I'd probably have gone off the bridge without Celexa...I'm better now, but afraid to stop taking them.

[tpsbmam]

127. Misleading title

The study looked at SSRIs (e.g., Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, etc) not all antidepressants -- there are other types.

[TrogL]

131. HOW TO GO OFF ANTIDEPRESSANTS - READ THIS DAMMIT!!

If you do not go off an antidepressant properly, for example by going "cold turkey" you may get "brain shocks" or other bizarre side effects.

Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome particularly the section on how to taper off.

[Political Heretic]

156. YOU NEED TO BE UNDER MEDICAL CARE ANYWAY

If you're taking anti-depressants, this isn't some kind of "fire and forget thing" - you need to be regularly monitored by a doctor who knows what they are doing. A primary doctor can do it if they are knowledgeable enough, or a psychiatrist.

If they're not telling you about how to both GO ON and GO OFF anti-depressants then you need to find a new doctor!

[mountainvue]

135. 40mg of Prozac a day has helped me get my life back in

order. I swore off anti depressants after a bad experience with Paxil. But after I stopped taking it, things got worse. I was suicidal. Thank god I have a good doc who listened to me and put me on something that works for me.

[Barrett808]

136. On the upside, at least they work on "the most severely depressed"

But how surprised would you be if you discovered that Big Pharma encouraged over-prescription of these drugs?

[Political Heretic]

149. Finding the appropriate medication transformed and brought normalcy to my life.

Whenever I see stuff like this I get worried. The problem with anti-depressants is that:

a) depression is too often a catch-all diagnosis for other mental health issues or
b) clinical depression is formally diagnosed too casually, when there is a significant difference between non-reoccurring bouts of situational depression (which happens to everyone) and chronic depression, which is a clinical mental health condition or
c) scientists do not clearly understand all the specifics of how anti-depressants work, and many work in different ways. The result being that even someone who truly has a chemical imbalance and needs medication may have to go through an agonizing process of trial and error to find the right anti-depressant that works for them.

However, clinical depression is a real an serious condition cause by chemical imbalances and is not the same as just "feeling down." These people need to not be more stigmatized than they already are, and certainly do not need to be even more discouraged from seeking appropriate medical / therapeutic attention.

So yes, we can agree about the tendency to over-pathologize in our culture. And we can even agree that anti-depressants are probably over-prescribed. HOWEVER, please remember that true clinical depression is not only a real diagnosis, it is a physical condition - a chemical imbalance in the brain. Telling someone with a chemical imbalance to just stop being depressed by willpower is like telling a diabetic to just make more insulin.

Political Heretic, MSW

[noonwitch]

153. Prozac, Pacsil and Zoloft are miracle drugs for some, and don't work on others

Not every drug works on every person, and not every drug treats every condition. Prescribing psychotropic meds is an experiment that begins new with each patient.

[Political Heretic]

155. Additionally, anxiety disorders and chronic depression are often confused in diagnosis

Some medication works better to treat formally diagnosed anxiety disorders (which is not even remotely similar to being "stressed out") and others work better to treat depression - but many are all generically classified as anti-depressants.

For example, I didn't just get "handed" anti-depressants like candy. After consistently dealing with the same symptoms for most of my adult life, and finding things really pushing me toward a serious crisis break, I got help. I was under the care of both a medical doctor and a licensed clinical social worker who I saw regularly and who carefully monitored and medication decisions as well as providing emotional/mental counseling. I saw my counselor every week, and my doctor once a month - that's how it should be done.

Anyway, at first my doctor opted to try a medium dosage of welbutrin. After a while though, it was clear that it was really not having much effect for me. In consultation with my CLMSW, they suspectd that my symptoms really had more in common with formal anxiety disorder diagnosis, and consequently opted to try and carefully monitor Celexa.

Celexa is also classified as an anti-depressant. However, it is more focused on anxiety issues with depression treatment as a secondary effect. After being in this for a month, this is how I described the change:

-- I had never known, in my entire life, what it was like to live with a constant unending sense of dread. I didn't even know it wasn't supposed to be / didn't have to be like that - it was all I had ever known. I just knew that I couldn't keep my life together. It's hard to describe to someone who doesn't have this condition what it is like to be able to experience a more normalized sense of being.

So you can understand why, when someone starts in on the old ignorant stereotypes of "oh its all just in your head" "people on AD medication are just addicts, or its just a placebo effect," etc. etc. some of us tend to get upset.

Double so when you're actually in the field and know what you're talking about while some of the loudest others don't.

[laundry_queen]

188. I hate the stereotypes as well.

-- I had never known, in my entire life, what it was like to live with a constant unending sense of dread. I didn't even know it wasn't supposed to be / didn't have to be like that - it was all I had ever known. I just knew that I couldn't keep my life together. It's hard to describe to someone who doesn't have this condition what it is like to be able to experience a more normalized sense of being.

This is exactly my experience with anxiety & Celexa. It is difficult to describe it to someone who hasn't lived with it. I lived with the sense of dread and panic for so long I figured it was normal. When I realized it wasn't normal, the stigma of medication kept me from getting help for a long time. It wasn't until I had a complete breakdown that I finally let go of my fear of medication and my doctor prescribed Celexa. Lucky for me, it was the right one, and it is the only one I've ever been on. I am a bit bitter that because of the stereotypes and the misinformation people have about mental illness and medication, I lived with crippling anxiety for much longer than I had to. Even those close to me told me that medication was a 'crutch', that I just needed to 'get out more', 'eat healthy and exercise' and 'stop worrying so much'. This is the mindset that is pervasive in our culture about anxiety and depression. I'm not overly surprised to see it here, although I am disappointed.

[sarcasmo]

166. Tom Cruise was right.

[hunter]

173. Tom Cruise was not right.

Postpartum depression is a terrible, terrible thing.

Cruise is a clueless insensitive twit.

Turning one's life over to a cult is one way of dealing with mental illness, but I'd never recommend it.

[sarcasmo]

182. Look at my screen name again before you freak out.

On edit: I didn't think I would ever need the sarcasm logo in my post with this screen name, but I stand corrected.

[hunter]

186. I don't freak out over words on the internet.

But you'll never know if I was playing the straight man or not.

;)

[sarcasmo]

187. LOL, There are many straight Men who don't know they are playing the Gay Man.

[davidthegnome]

179. I really don't know

I'm on zoloft, 150 MG, and xanax, 1 MG a day. One therapist diagnosed me as Panic disorder and dyslemia, another as Post traumatic stress disorder. One psychiatrist tried to put me on risperdal, another increased the dosage of my zoloft. All roughly around the time of my breakdown.

Yet, unless I am mistaken... there is no test to determine whether or not a chemical imbalance in the brain (the suggested cause of depression, anxiety disorders, and so on) is actually a reality. I was perscribed medication after speaking with a Psychiatrist for just half an hour. He tried to put me on even more than I was willing to take.

They tried me out on other, newer drugs - but those all made me worse. I've been on zoloft, for the better part of ten years, on xanax for almost a year and a half now.

Do I honestly feel better than before? Yes, somewhat. But I am not happy, by any means, not even close. Do I have a chemical imbalance in my brain? I don't know - no one has ever proven it one way or another. From my understanding, chemical imbalance is a theory and not a fact.

I won't say anti-depressants don't work, as in many cases they do help significantly. Yet, at the same time... our understanding, our overall comprehension of mental health is so vague, so small, that in the grand scheme of things they may (and do, in my opinion) do as much harm as they do good.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

185. I disagree - as one who has taken various anti-depressants & was moderately depressed.

Some anti-depressants didn't work for me and Prozac worked very well. I know others who had an entirely different anti-depressant work for them but NOT Prozac. Different ones work for people - apparently depending on their chemistry.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

189. Do Not Stop Your Meds

If you are currently taking Anti-Depressants do not stop taking them because of advice on this board. Talk to your doctor if you have a concern. Some SSRI's work on some people other don't. This study examined 47 clinical trials, it did not do new research into SSRI's. Most people (surprisingly even many on this board) have preconceived notions of depression. A pastor once told me it was a spiritual problem, I asked him why a pill fixed it. Medically speaking we know very little of how the brain works, so if your anti-depressants help you then keep taking them and if they don't then see your doctor, maybe a different one will work for you maybe a combination of meds will help you, maybe therapy will help, maybe excercise but don't give up. We are all in it together after all. Funny after years of reading DU this is the first topic that I actually had to respond to.

David