Hillary: Seat Michigan, Florida Delegates

[IndianaGreen]

Source: Texas Monthly

Friday, February 22, 2008

Hillary: Seat Michigan, Florida Delegates

posted by Evan Smith at 7:50 AM

There’s been a lot of talk about what your campaign would do should it get to the convention. Would you commit today to honoring the agreement made earlier not to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations?

Let’s talk about the agreement. The only agreement I entered into was not to campaign in Michigan and Florida. It had nothing to do with not seating the delegates. I think that’s an important distinction. I did not campaign--

The press seems to have missed the distinction if that’s the case. The talk is that you agreed not to seat the delegation.

That’s not the case at all. I signed an agreement not to campaign in Michigan and Florida. Now, the DNC made the determination that they would not seat the delegates, but I was not party to that. I think it’s important for the DNC to ask itself, Is this really in the best interest of our eventual nominee? We do not want to be disenfranchising Michigan and Florida. We have to try to carry both of those states. I’d love to carry Texas, but it’s usually not in the electoral calculation for the Democratic nominee. Florida and Michigan are. Therefore, the people of those two states disregarded adamantly the DNC’s decision that they would not seat the delegates. They came out and voted. If they had been influenced by the DNC, despite the fact that there was very little campaigning, if any, they would have stayed home. But they wanted their voices heard. More than 2 million people came out. I mean, it was record turnout for a primary. Florida, in particular, is sensitive to being disenfranchised because of what happened to them in the last elections. I have said that I would ask my delegates to vote to seat.

So your intention is to press this issue?

Yes, it is. Yes, it is.




Read more: http://www.texasmonthly.com/blogs/polldancing/2008/02/hillary-seat-michigan-florida-delegates.php

---

Today's interview with Hillary Clinton will be broadcast next week, just before the Texas primary, on "Texas Monthly Talks."

If you recall, Hillary was specifically asked at last night's debate about the Florida and Michigan delegates, she replied that the situation will sort itself out. Based on this interview, one can only conclude that Hillary is going to take this fight to the Democratic Convention in Denver.

[ingac70]

1. She is on a scorched earth campaign...

if she can't be Pres. she'll try to take the party down with her.

[IndianaGreen]

2. That's the impression I got. Someone talked Hillary out of being nice about it.

Bill perhaps? Or was it that horrible man Mark Penn?

[ixion]

3. yep... she is the dem incarnation of Bush

if she manages to win the nomination, we're all screwed.

[merwin]

5. Yes, she is just like Bush.

Why not just vote for McCain then? That's just as stupid of an idea!

[Baby Snooks]

6. If it's not Ohio deciding, it's Florida...

So how many delegates would she gain from Florida?

[merwin]

4. Florida and Michigan started this.

She is just doing the obvious and asking for delegates to be seated in states that she won. Strategically, Obama shouldn't have withdrawn his name from the ballot in those states.

[IndianaGreen]

7. All the candidates, including Hillary, pledged to honor the DNC's decision

on the renegade states. Hillary is trying to change the rules.

[merwin]

17. They pledged not to campaign there, not to take their names off of the ballot.

It's her job to get creative in order to win. And if that includes lobbying the DNC, then so be it. The best outcome would be that the DNC decides that they have to hold new caucuses (which Obama would win), but I don't fault her for trying.

[Zhade]

50. It's her job to cheat when she's losing?

That's okay from Dems now? It wasn''t okay from b*s* in 2000, why is it now?

[DuaneBidoux]

58. Exactly! Who could ever blame Bush for going to the Supreme Court in 2000!

Perfectly natural.

[The Croquist]

36. We haven't seen anything yet

The primary season ends on June 3rd with Montana and South Dakota. The convention doesn't start until 08/25. That's when the lawsuits will start. She doesn't care about the party. She cares about herself.

[Jeffro40]

23. Uhh no, Iowa and NH started this

And why SHOULD they be allowed to dictate if we can vote or not. Last time I looked the politically correct left didn't turn us into the Soviets yet.

[dysfunctional press]

29. actually, no- it was MI and FL that defied the dnc...

and like it or not, it's the dnc that sets the rules for choosing it's candidate- the other 48 states could play by the rules just fine- why not those 2 states- MI and FL...:shrug:?

[knitter4democracy]

38. There's far more to the Michigan part of this story than people realize.

The MIGOP started all of this. Our state leaders were morons about it (probably out of desperation for Michigan to get advertising money and our issues on the national stage since we're dying up here and no one cares). So, all of the voters of Michigan got screwed. The party powerful didn't get screwed nearly as badly as we rank-and-file Dems did.

[IndianaGreen]

43. I heard Paul Begala suggest "firestation caucuses" for MI and FL in June

to give people a chance to vote for delegates that will be seated.

[knitter4democracy]

44. Some of our state house reps are putting a plan together.

That's what I heard. We'll see if anything happens.

[wpelb]

59. Let's go back to '04

A lot of rank-and-file Democrats wanted Howard Dean. Going into the Iowa caucuses, Dean looked to be the front runner, maybe a near lock for the nomination. Two weeks later, after losses in Iowa and New Hampshire, he was folding his tent. Supporters or potential supporters of Dean in Florida, Michigan, and a lot of other big states didn't even get a chance to vote for a viable candidate that they liked. Instead, they had a choice between Kerry, Kucinich, and maybe a couple of other also-rans who hadn't officially quit the race.

So everyone tried to fix the system. Why should a couple of tiny states (at least population-wise, in the case of Iowa) get to choose who the candidates for President would be? Well, they shouldn't. So the legislatures came up with various plans to move the Presidential primary up a few weeks to a point where it would really matter. However, that angered Iowa and New Hampshire, who jealously guarded their first-in-the-nation status, and apparently had laws saying, "We must go first." (How states were allowed to pass laws governing how other states could run their primaries and caucuses is beyond me, but such was the case. How would one state like it if it was told by another how to--for instance--run its lottery? I don't think that would work.)

The result of all of this is a balkanized primary/caucus/smoke-filled room/super-delegate nomination process that screws a lot of the voters, including the ones it was supposed to help.

[knitter4democracy]

61. I'd have to agree with that assesment, too.

There's a lot of truth in that.

[marshall]

32. In her mind she'll fix the party laer

She has her priorities--
1. Get elected president
2. Do anything necessary to get the nomination
3. Fix the damage done by a scorched earth primary

[RamboLiberal]

8. To be fair at the debate she was asked about the super delegates

I was hoping she'd be asked about the Mich and FL delegates or that Barack would bring it up. I think Obama will win the nomination but for this voter if Hillary got the nom via this that would be a deal breaker for me. I would not vote for her in this case and my prediction is she would split the Democratic party and lose the GE.

This among a number of other reasons is why I'm really angry with her campaign.

[IndianaGreen]

10. There is a video of this interview posted at Texas Monthly website

The 30-minute interview will air next week. I wonder how Texans will react to her comments about their state's primary.

[Hawkeye-X]

9. She can seat these delegates, but she'll still lose.

She still has to get over 60% on her remaining states, and it's virtually impossible with BO's MO.

Hawkeye-X

[txaslftist]

11. I'd love to carry Texas, but it's usually not in the ...calculation...

Yeah. That's the Hillary I remember.

Back in 1992 Bill and Hill decided that Texas wasn't worth campaigning in, neither in the primary nor in the general. Partially because Bill didn't come here and stump (Hillary did, IIRC) the Texas Democratic party suffered massive defeats statewide, and Texas remains one of the reddest states in the union.

So I guess pissing on us in favor of Florida and Michigan is something we should expect.

We'll see how that works out for her on March 4th.

[merwin]

18. Isn't she in Texas right now?

Bill may have "pissed on you", but from what I've read, Hillary is banking on Texas.

[txaslftist]

24. She's banking on our amnesia, I think.

[merwin]

34. Banking on your amnesia of what her husband did 16 years ago?

They are two separate people. You do know that, right?

[snooper2]

65. That's the prelude...

To next saying, Texas doesn't matter...

[f the letter]

12. i have to agree, this is really horseshit.

Clinton pledged to honor the DNC decision. Other candidates weren't even on the ballot, although even if all candidates wanted them seated this would still be crap. Seat the delegates who unseated themselves, and open the door to primaries starting even earlier than they are now? Forget that.

The whole primary system may be busted, but moving your primary earlier was _not_ the way to fix it, so these delegates should go sit at their own table somewhere else. No pity on this one.

Disclaimer : i wish i didn't have to 'choose between' Clinton and Obama, so i don't want people calling me a cultish obamaniac or hillary hater or any of that nonsense

[Jeffro40]

21. What's Horsehit is stealing the votes from millions of Voters in MI and FL

You would want your vote to count woudn't you? Well, I want mine to count.

[badgervan]

25. Everyone...

... knew the rules ahead of time, including the voters. If we change the rules after they're in place, we're no better than the bushies.
I can just hear the Hillaryites screaming bloody murder if the situation were reversed, and Obama had come out ahead in those two states.... and those states knew there would be consequences when they started this mess.

[dysfunctional press]

27. if you wanted your vote to count- you should have lived in a state that played by the rules...

sorry.
:shrug:

[Dr. Strange]

48. Or made sure your state followed the rules. n/t

[f the letter]

33. From the moment the word 'delegate' is spoken,

your vote doesn't really 'count' as such anymore in the first place. Mine didn't, as the number of votes for my candidate and the number of delegates he received didn't match. You can point to the same thing with other candidates, especially in those early races where it wasn't an either/or choice. i'm at a loss for why delegates exist in anything resembling democracy, other than to water it down and prevent people from having any meaningful say. So your vote has already been stolen by our well-diluted election system, not by me.

But even ignoring that, it's not like voters in your state didn't see this coming. Voters should have been demanding that their states not take actions that would nullify their votes in so vigorous a way that their party officials relented. Primaries are already _way_ too early, and i support the idea that the committee can set the dates of primaries. To count the delegates exactly the same as if they hadn't had their primaries earlier than the committee set is encouraging states to hold primaries anytime, say, January 2009 for the 2012 election. i don't want this to happen.

This is not stealing votes. If every candidate had been on those ballots i might feel differently, but even then the problem of the overall primary setup is the real issue.

[devilindisguise]

46. My vote better count

And I know plenty of people who feel the same way. Let the games begin. lol.

[Zhade]

51. Blame the FL/MI Dems for this, then.

She still doesn't get to change the rules just because she's losing.

[Roland99]

13. Desperation - by Calvin Klein

That's the scent of fear.

[devilindisguise]

47. Dennis still wins

He is married to the gorgeous redhead.

[HockeyMom]

14. NO. I voted here in Florida too

I knew full well my vote wouldn't count, but the rules are the rules. Besides, why the hell should Florida AGAIN hold this country hostage?

ENOUGH of Florida screwing up our elections. If they cannot abide by the rules, then the hell with them.

[Zhade]

52. Thank you for your intellectual honesty and ethical stance, HM.

My parents live in FL, and I also agree that they have to abide by the rules. That's the way it goes.

[RamboLiberal]

15. Moore wants Michigan vote re-do to fix 'Soviet-style election'

Filmmaker Michael Moore says he and his fellow Michigan voters should have their voices heard as Democrats pick their presidential nominee, but he does not want results of the state's previous "Soviet-style election" to count.

Michigan and Florida each were stripped of their delegates after they broke Democratic National Committee rules in scheduling their primaries too early. Hillary Clinton easily "won" each delegate-free state in which candidates agreed not to campaign, and she is now pushing for those states to have their delegates re-seated at the Democrats' convention this summer.

Moore, who previously lamented the disenfranchisement of his states voters, said he wanted the Democratic party to "fix" the situation, ideally by holding another primary or caucus. Barack Obama and John Edwards, unlike Clinton, removed their names from Michigan ballots before the state's Jan. 15 vote.

"There was no election there," Moore told reporters on a conference call Friday. "That was a Soviet-style election with one candidate on the ballot."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Moore_wants_Michigan_vote_redo_to_0222.html

[Zhade]

54. Clinton has no idea what she's doing - she'd get TROUNCED in those states at this point.

She's losing, she wants to make it possible to cheat, but she'd still likely lose!

[IndianaGreen]

16. Watch the video of Hillary talking about Michigan and Florida delegates

http://www.texasmonthly.com/texasmonthlytalks/player.php?type=video&path=texasmonthlytalks/assets/season6/flv&file=616_Hillary_Clinton&ptitle=Hillary%20Clinton

http://www.texasmonthly.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w68rOsJa74o

[customerserviceguy]

19. I'm curious

how many net delegates would Hillary gain if the FL and MI delegations were seated? I presume that there was proportional representation in FL, whereas there was essentially only one candidate on the ballot in MI.

In other words, how many delegates would Obama have to lead her by in order for this tactic to be worthless?

[Jeffro40]

20. I'm from MICHIGAN and tell me why my vote shouldn't count?

Because we don't care to have a tiny group of farmers influence an election? That's Bullshit. Anyone who supports this vote-stealing is just as bad as the Republicans. Yes, including Howard Dean.

[dysfunctional press]

28. because it wasn't a fair election? for starters?

not all the candidates appeared on the ballot, and many voters didn't participate, since they had all been told that their votes weren't going to count.

pretty simple stuff, really.

[Zachstar]

31. What a messed up view Jeffro40!

It was not a fair election and yet you apologists want it to count? For what? Soviet USA? It was little more than a rigged election that suddenly Hillary supporters want badly. (A heck of alot more it seems than when Hillary was the "Almost assured" Candidate)

I'm going to say it now because I am frankly sick and tired of this. It wasn't all that long ago that the Hillary forum was little more than a ghost town because the rational people at DU really had nothing to say about her. And for good reason in my view for SHE is the very definition of the cultural use of the word politician.

Now all the sudden we have all these people going nuts about Hillary for some reason (You honestly think it's going to be Bill 2.0?) and going to the lowest levels to defend her business as usual tactics. Yall in my view fully (Just tuned to try to sway a few more rational issue based voters) support her crying which you KNOW influences weak voters away from their thoughts of issues and leadership and towards the couch. Which was the tip of the Iceburg from yall until this mess reared its ugly head.

In my view yall have decided to throw ethics and consistency out the window in your selfish, desperate attempts to get her the candidacy. Where she will swiftly (As in swift boated or easily or whatever) be beaten by McCain who has planned this election since 2000. Yet gets it easier and easier every week as she goes to new lows.

In my view you are betraying the voters who did not get a fair choice. For all we know "John doe dem" could have won those states had there been a fair election done at the right time instead of those states deciding they are above the rules.

Oh and before you fire back with silly comments like "It violates the will of the people!" Well the people decided to vote in a flawed election instead of forming more and bigger legal demonstrations to the people in charge of these states cheating. So the voters are equally to blame. They cheated in a vote in a party that can make whatever rules that are legal as you do not HAVE to vote them in.

ITS OVER! THEY CHEATED AND GOT PUNISHED! If you don't like that then say hello to Bush 2.0 in administrations to come if you and the Clintons manage to convince them to seat them.

If you don't want a few states deciding the election then maybe you need to call for super Tuesday to include all states.

The good news is that Texans see this and hopefully will let her know that the time of bull is over.

Hillary, If you want to attempt to gain my respect I suggest you stop with this NOW and try to clean yourself up for a 2012 run. You can learn a great deal from Obama if he becomes the president and apply that in a good season later on.

Hillary supporters, I strongly suggest you stop this madness now. Going to new lows will only continue to drain her chances not only now but in years to come. Going dirty now will be on record which will be used with glee against her EVERY time she tries to run for anything. Keep this up and good luck keeping her on a school board. If you TRULY care about HER and not just the thought that she may be "Bill 2.0" then you will understand that this is no way to win an election or keep a seat.

[knitter4democracy]

41. I'm from Michigan, and I want a new vote.

Many in our state didn't vote in our primary, and those who voted undecided were really voting for Obama or Edwards. If we had a caucus in summer, then it would be a real vote. The state party has to pay for a caucus, and that sounds pretty fair to me.

Instead of only some of our votes counting, a caucus would actually count for real. Dr. Dean and the DNC have made it sound like they'd consider that as a compromise.

[Zhade]

55. Because your state party leaders CHANGED THE RULES BEFOREHAND.

And you guys KNEW it.

Clinton doesn't get to cheat just because she's losing. Sorry. People voted KNOWING it wouldn't count - if they didn't agree to this, they should have taken it up with their party leaders.

[Jeffro40]

22. YES! Seat our Delegates!

It's amazing how so many of the posters on DU are actually SUPPORTING not counting votes. You sound like a bunch of Republicans keeping the blacks out. Lay off! Who cares what Howard Dean threatens to do? My vote should count.

[badgervan]

30. You're mad at the Wrong People

Yell at your state Party leaders who tried to jump the line and were disciplined for it. You did not have a FAIR election... and everyone knows it.

[Tektonik]

40. Wrongly disciplined

The states' voters should not have been the victims; rather, only the party leaders should have been disciplined.

Take away people's vote is never a good idea.

[knitter4democracy]

42. Let's re-do it so that everyone will actually vote and then be counted.

We had the lowest turnout in my precinct that I've ever seen. If we had a caucus in summer, people would really come out of the woodwork to vote.

With Hillary's way, only some of us would count. That doesn't sound right to me.

The reality is, though, they already stripped us of our hotel rooms and everything. Even if we did get to go, who knows where we'd be staying. Our party leadership screwed us over.

[Zhade]

56. Yeah, insisting you follow the rules YOU AGREED TO is sooo Republican.

Give us a fucking break. You're transparent.

[tabasco]

60. You freepers really are afraid of Obama, aren't you?

Good.

[HuffleClaw]

26. what is obama's take on this issue i wonder

anyone know? iirc, hillary would win both if their votes counted

[Zhade]

57. Considering she was the only one on the ballot, that's not a tough call.

NT!

[high density]

35. Maybe Hillary should go run against Putin

God help us if she's the nominee. This is painful enough.

[knitter4democracy]

37. Thanks, but no thanks. Really.

You're trying to make it sound like you're fighting for us, Hillary, but you're really just in it for you. Where were you before? Why aren't you calling for a caucus to make sure things are equal and done right? Oh, that's right, you're worried you'd lose. That really means you don't care about Michigan and our issues. Thanks, but we'll be just fine without you.

[Tektonik]

39. Their delegates should be counted

Who fucking cares if the two states broke the rules; disenfranchising millions of people is not the answer to an argument over an archaic awkward primary system.

Now, I do believe there should be a re-vote because during the first vote I believe many did not show up for the fear of their vote not counting for anything.

[bhikkhu]

63. Only in a fair election

No campaigning and one name on the ballot makes a farce of a supposed democracy. Call for a real election, caucus or whatever. Let the people decide and then seat the delegates- there is plenty of time still.

This is not Cuba, not the Soviet Union.

[devilindisguise]

45. Count the votes

Of course they will be counted. Everyone's vote is supposed to be counte. She is right also about Texas in the GE. They are too republican now, I can remember when it was a democratic state, BB.

[bhikkhu]

64. Count the votes in a fair election

remember the "land of the free"? the rest of the world must be either laughing their asses off or holding their heads in their hands...

How about an election where there is more than one name on the ballot, and campaigning is not forbidden?

There is plenty of time still to do things right, let the people actually decide, and then seat the delegates.

How about we show the world we can hold an election better than Zimbabwe or Saddam-era Iraq?

[Zhade]

49. No. You don't get to change the rules and cheat because you're losing, Clinton.

Fuck that noise.

[JeanGrey]

53. I knew it, and I hate to say "I told you so".

She will NEVER GIVE IT UP she will destroy the party first. I hope that this settles anyone's idea of Hillary's sainthood. Barf.

[rayofreason]

62. Who did not expect this?

Only those who don't know the Clintons.

On the other hand, she does have a point. People came out and voted in those primaries. Of course, if Obama had won Florida I don't think Clinton would make a big deal of it. But since she stands to benefit, expect her to take it all the way to Chicago.