Japanese hunters resume whaling

[eppur_se_muova]

Source: BBC

Japan's Antarctic fleet has resumed whaling after anti-hunt activists suspended their pursuit of the vessels in the Southern Ocean to refuel.

Media reports say an Australian customs vessel saw five whales being harpooned and hauled on to a Japanese ship.

The Japanese fleet had stopped hunting for three weeks while it was pursued in Antarctic waters by the campaigners.

Australian Foreign Minister Stephen Smith held talks with his Japanese counterpart in Tokyo on the issue.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7219706.stm

[Bonobo]

1. Don't worry.

The Minke whale population is big enough to not be affected by the tiny amount taken by Japan, Norway, etc.

[SteppingRazor]

2. But Japan doesn't just hunt Minkes

Japanese whalers also hunt vulnerable species (sperm, humpback) and even endangered ones (sei, fin).


Not only that but there's also the whole sentience debate to consider.

[Bonobo]

9. According to Japan Wikipedia, they announced on December 21, 2007 no humpbacks

would be taken.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B6%E3%83%88%E3%82%A6%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A9
日本政府は2007年12月21日にザトウクジラの捕獲を取りやめると発表した。

As for the Sei Whales (In Japanese, "Shirona") I searched and searched, but can find nothing indicating they are still taking this type of whale.

In fact, a google search in Japanese primarily yielded hits about protecting them and NONE suggesting they are being killed by these whalers. Indeed, why would they be if the Whalers are doing it for food?

Can you point me to a source that shows that the Japanese whalers are taking Humpback and Sei whales?

[SteppingRazor]

12. Here's a link to the minke and fin takes for 2008 in the Antarctic:

http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn13185-australia-rules-japanese-whaling-illegal.html

That's just a quick google search. And, granted, you're obviously much more up--to-date on this subject than me, as I hadn't heard about the humpback suspension.

But, so what? Fin whales are still an endangered species, and they're still killing them.

[Bonobo]

15. I followed up links and could find nothing of what I asked for, so I looked deeper...

In Japanese, here is the relevant portion of the agreement.

絶滅のおそれのある野生動植物の種の国際取引に関する条約(いわゆる「ワシントン条約」)<38>
同条約では付属書Ⅰにシロナガスクジラ、ナガスクジラ、ザトウクジラ、、マッコウクジラ、ミンククジラなどの鯨類を掲載し、これらについては商業目的での貿易並びに公海からの持込を禁じている。日本は鯨類に関してミンククジラ、イワシクジラ（北太平洋のものを除く）、ニタリクジラ、ナガスクジラ、イラワジイルカ、マッコウクジラ、アカボウクジラにつき留保を付しており<39>、上記鯨種については同条約の適用を免れる。但し留保を付していないザトウクジラと北太平洋に生息するイワシクジラについては、公海上での捕獲・持込について、捕獲が主として商業目的でない旨等を示す証明書の発給を締約国政府が行なう必要がある（第5条(c)項）。なお、経済的な利益獲得のための活動や、経済的利用のための活動は商業的とみなされること、商業的側面が明らかに際立っているとはいえないあらゆる利用方法は、第5条の文言にある「主として商業目的」であると解釈するものとされている（ワシントン条約第5回締約国会議決議5.10<40>）。

It says specifically that the following MAY NOT BE TAKEN FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSE etc:
-Blue Whales (Shirona Kujira Balaenoptera musculus)
-Fin Whales (Nagasu Kujira alaenoptera physalus)
-Humpback Whales (Sadoh Kujira Megaptera novaeangliae)
-Bowhead Whale (Hokkyoku Kujira)
-Sperm Whale (Makoh Kujira)
-etc.

I still have not seen anything that shows the Japanese have taken Sei or Fin or Humpback since 2005.

[Algorem]

16. only for "scientific" purposes,right?

[Bonobo]

17. I'm not even sure it is happening (other than the Minkes). Just asking for a link.

[SteppingRazor]

18. "Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha has a permit to kill 935 minke and 50 fin whales in Antarctica this season"

That's a direct quote from the article I posted. I don't think you can get more specific than that, yeah?

[Bonobo]

22. OK, I have read and read and read...

In English and in Japanese.

You are right in that the most recent permit calls for the 50 fin to be taken. Agreed.

But it is more than a simple issue of "Don't taze the whales, Bro!" is what I am saying.

Read all this and then we could talk. But I refuse to let it become just an issue of "whales are cute, so don't kill them!" Otherwise, your side has no real merit other than a lame appeal to emotions.

http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/permits.htm

[SteppingRazor]

24. I agree with you that it's not a simple issue.

And I'd also like to say that "Don't taze the whales, bro!" is a great line. :)

I'm not saying whales are cute, so don't kill them, though. I'm saying whales are endangered, so don't kill them.

Anyway, I'll read everything at that lengthy webpage you posted. I don't have the time right now, but I promise you it will get done! For the record, this isn't a major issue of mine, I'm not a Greenpeace type, so I'm sure we'd actually find a consensus position if we had some time to sit and blab about it.

:toast:

[LeftyMom]

19. They eventually dropped the humpback targets, but still plan to kill fin whales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7099720.stm

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/21/japan.whaling/index.html

It* says Japan's whaling vessels "are expected to kill as many as 935 minke whales, 50 threatened humpback whales and 50 endangered fin whales for so-called 'scientific research.' " But the halt does not apply to hunting the minke and fin whales.

*the Australian gov't

[Barrett808]

20. Fin whale IUCN status: Endangered

The Fin Whale (Balaenoptera physalus), also called the Finback Whale or Razorback or Common Rorqual, is a marine mammal belonging to the suborder of baleen whales. It is the second largest whale and the second largest living animal after the Blue Whale,<2> growing to nearly 27 metres (88 ft) long.<2>

Long and slender, the Fin Whale's body is brownish-grey with a paler underside. There are at least two distinct subspecies: the Northern Fin Whale of the North Atlantic, and the larger Antarctic Fin Whale of the Southern Ocean. It is found in all the world's major oceans, from polar to tropical waters. It is absent only from waters close to the ice pack at both the north and south poles and relatively small areas of water away from the open ocean. The highest population density occurs in temperate and cool waters.<3> Its food consists of small schooling fish, squid and crustaceans including mysids and krill.

Like all other large whales, the Fin Whale was heavily hunted during the twentieth century and is an endangered species. The International Whaling Commission (IWC) has issued a moratorium on commercial hunting of this whale,<4> although Iceland and Japan have announced intentions to resume hunting, the latter country stating it will kill a quota of 50 whales for the 2008 season.

(more)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fin_whale

[Bonobo]

25. I guess they should not take the FIn Whales.

Why do YOU think they would hunt them? Is the meat tastier than Minke? No, practically the same species as I read it.

So what then? Does it simply say 50 so they can protect themselves in case they accidentally takes som Fins while going for Minke?

[Bonobo]

23. Okay, I see this now. It is true.

The next questions are:

1. Does the scientific research have any merit?
My answer is: Shit, I dunno. I would have to be a lot more informed to answer that question. It has to be complex. Research into krill levels, the effect on the populations of sardines and small fish, etc. It's complex. Is there a bigger issue about the whole ecosystem? Probably... Is Japan just making an excuse because Fin whale meat is tastier than their closely related sister the Minke? I doubt it...

2. Do the numbers of Fin whales being taken endanger the survivability of the Fin Whale? If so, they should stop.

3. Is this a bigger issue than just wanting to stop whales from being killed because we don't like it? Or because they are cute? Or smart? I hope there is, because if there isn't then I think it is a very shaky argument.

[LeftyMom]

3. I'd like to be the first to thank Greenpeace for keeping the fleet's location secret.

At least five whales are dead because they didn't tell the Sea Shepherd ships where the Japanese fleet was before leaving the area.

Douchenozzles.

[Barrett808]

5. Word. n/t

[I Have A Dream]

6. Was this accidental?

I haven't seen anything about it. I'm really confused now; I thought that they were one of the good guys.

[Barrett808]

7. Greenpeace has a strict policy of "non-cooperation" with Sea Shepherd

Because they're under the institutional delusion that what they do is "non-violent" and what SSCS does is not "non-violent."

[LeftyMom]

8. No, it's because of a longstanding pissing match over tactics

Normally somebody on one of the Greenpeace ships gets the coordinates over secretly but apparently this year they're cracking down and that didn't happen. It's really fucked they don't put the whales first.

[I Have A Dream]

10. Well, that sucks!

I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for the information.

I would do almost anything to permanently stop whaling. x(

[BreweryYardRat]

29. Oy. That's pretty fucked up.

[flvegan]

13. Seconded.

The spirit of The Rainbow Warrior is now dead.

[LeftyMom]

14. It's a damn shame.

It's a hard enough fight even when everybody cooperates, going up against a powerful government.

[I Have A Dream]

4. This makes me feel physically ill.

[LiberalEsto]

11. Picture a parallel world

in which whales go Japaneseing.

:sarcasm:

[ladjf]

21. Thieves, plundering the oceans, slaughtering the whales.

Why would a great Country like Japan stoop to such a brutal activity?

[BreweryYardRat]

26. Institutionalized cruelty has a long history at the upper levels of Japanese culture.

Your average everyday Japanese person on the street is a normal human being -- and most of them don't want to see whales hunted either.

The guys running the big Japanese corporations and their buddies in government, on the other hand, are much more screwed up than even our upper-upper class. Back when Japan had a serious military, their upper ranks had the same sort of attitude -- and worse, the officers passed it down to their troops. I think it's a problem of a society that rewards obsessive step-on-anyone-in-your-way dedication.

[Bonobo]

27. Huh? Tell me more. This is fascinating.

Do you actually have any experience with Japanese culture?

[BreweryYardRat]

28. He asked why. I gave my best-educated-guess answer.

If I had time to put up a fully-researched spread to confirm my statement, I would. But I've got a reading to finish for one of my Lit classes, so I don't have the time. Now, if you'd care to wait for 8-24 hours...

(And why do you always wander in and defend the Japanese in whaling threads?)

[Bonobo]

31. Go back to school and ask your prof.

Then get back to me. I've lived and breathed Japan for 20 years.

[BreweryYardRat]

32. Ignored for arrogance.

I don't see you offering to present research in favor of your statements, and frankly, I don't like your tone.

[Bonobo]

33. Ignored for ignorance.

You spouted off some stupid sounding crap recycled from an old textbook on Japanese Society 101 and I called bullshit on you.

Sorry if it hurt, junior.

[Thothmes]

30. Remember WWII