Toyota Prius sales pass Ford Explorer

[underpants]

Source: MSNBC

The icon of America's SUV passion falls victim to stubbornly high gas prices and an increasingly stringent regulatory climate.



Americans bought more Toyota Prius hybrid gas-electric hatchbacks last year than Ford Explorer sport-utility vehicles, the top-selling SUV for more than a decade.

The change of fortune, buried in U.S. vehicle-sales data for 2007 and unthinkable a few years ago, will find an echo at this year's Detroit auto show, which starts Sunday.

While Americans' love for powerful gas guzzlers remains strong, a slowing economy and high gasoline prices are forcing buyers to lower their sights.

:eyes:

The Explorer led the SUV charge in the 1990s to replace the minivan as the family car. Baby boomers craving space, a protective cocoon high above the ground and the power of a V-8 engine have driven about 6 million Explorers out of showrooms over the past 18 years.

Read more: http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/ToyotaPriusSalesPassFordExplorer.aspx

---

No there never was an actual market for SUV's. If your work requires something like that you already had it, for the niche exploring/outdoors market they already had several options. The SUV will go down as one of the greatest and most disasterous examples of marketing (creating false demand)we have ever seen.

[Kolesar]

1. The Ford Freestyle cut into the Explorer's sales

[CRF450]

23. Those dont do bad at all, my Aunt has one.

She averages around 24mpg and has gotten 29mpg on the interstate. The interior is decent, but the seats are stiff, and it rides a little rough.

[JeanGrey]

57. I have a Pontiac Vibe, basically a toyota, and it just got 37 mpg

on the freeway and always gets over 30 even intown, plus carries a ton of stuff. 68 square feet of cargo room. I love it.

[CRF450]

61. Those are better, problem is...

My Aunt will buy nothing but Fords.

[JeanGrey]

65. Too bad she'd love this. I just won't buy an American made

four cylinder engine, I'm afraid.

[CRF450]

66. Yeah, most of them suck.

But theirs one you should keep an eye on when its released. GM has a new Cobalt SS in the works. Its using the same turbocharged 2.0 4 cylinder found in the Solstice GXP and the Satern Sky Red Line, pushing out 260hp. What amazes me about this car is that it ran 8:22 at the Nurburgring race track. Other cars that ran around the same time are a BMW E46 M3 at 8:22, Nissan 350Z at 8:26, Porsche Cayman at 8:25, and an 04 STi at 8:24. Heres the link for it http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/28/officially-official-2008-chevy-cobalt-ss-bows-at-sema/

[harmonicon]

2. I'm not sure if there never was a market

You are right that most of these folks who bought/buy SUVs have no use for them, but the same could also be said about sports cars, and certainly for all luxury cars (no one needs luxury) for instance.

I read something once that I found very interesting. It was comparing the rise of keeping dogs as pets, especially in victorian times, to SUV ownership. There are all of these portraits of aristocrats with their dogs. Since the dogs weren't working dogs (such as hunting dogs, guard dogs, etc.) they were superfluous. To be able to feed and maintain this pet was a display of excess wealth - that's why they're shown in the paintings of people in fancy dress and jewelry. The same could be said of SUVs. The simple fact that they are gas guzzlers and their off-road capabilities (or appearance there of) aren't utilized, is a display of one's wealth. That goes hand-in-hand with them becoming status symbols. It seems strange, but I think this analysis may very well be correct.

[Kolesar]

3. I think they are marginally more effective in the snow

But snow in mountain passes, not snow on the commute to work. It can keep you from getting stuck.

A good reason NOT to buy an SUV or any all wheel drive vehicle is that they have higher maintenance costs and don't last as long as front wheel drive cars. I solve the winter driving "problem" by buying snow tires.

[harmonicon]

4. same here

I've always (well, when I had a car and drove) used snow tires in the winter. I lived in southern California for a few years (I'm from Michigan originally and most recently), and I thought the rules they had about using chains were hilarious. They'd get just a touch of snow in the mountains and flip out, stop traffic and make everyone get chains. My brother had the same problem when he lived in lake tahoe - people just couldn't accept that it was possible for him to drive his front wheel drive car in the snow. Granted, there have been times when I've been stuck when all wheel drive would have helped, but it was never often enough to justify having a truck year-round. Now the one time I was moving back from California going through the rockies in a snow storm with all of my worldly possessions in my hatch-back, I was afraid. I had the pedal to the floor and was doing all of about 40. Semis were passing me. However, I've learned from that - when I'm driving in the mountains and it starts snowing, I fucking stop at the next exit with a hotel.

[Kolesar]

5. "Avoid trauma"

You don't drive any more? That would be such a change for me. I had no vehicle when I was in college, but my world is so different now.

[harmonicon]

7. I don't drive, and I love it.

Sure, sometimes it's frustrating - I can only buy as much as I can carry home from the store. I can't go places on impulse, which sucks, but I also don't have to ever worry about buying gas, when something's going to break down, if my car is safe where it's parked, etc. I should point out for full disclosure, that this non-driving change was brought about because I moved to England and am scared to death of learning how to drive on the left side of the road. But with where I live now (close to a town center with bus and train stations), I wouldn't want to own a car, even if I knew how to drive the "other" way. I am going back to the US for a few weeks this summer, and will have to get a new driver's license, since mine has expired - they won't let me renew it through the mail, and the longest extension they could give isn't nearly long enough for someone who lives in another country and only comes back to visit.

[ileus]

39. I've yet to drive my jeep to work on snow covered roads, my accord does a fine job.

until it snows 12" inches or more I won't drive the jeep, and I've had the jeep 9 years so far.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. I have 2.5 dogs. ( the eldest is 15 yr old golden)

we know the old guy is on his way out.

the other two weigh in at a total of 260 lbs. An SUV is the ONLY way to transport them. or my pikmeuptruk.

[harmonicon]

11. I can believe that!

I have a friend who had a giant wolf dog (75% wolf) that weighed over 100lbs. How she ever got that old girl to the vet is beyond me.

Does this fact of you needing an SUV for the doggies (if the analysis I recounted is correct) create a paradox which could destroy the space-time continuum?

[Pavulon]

13. I have seen them in the back

of Wagons. People bought suvs instead of wagons. If simple space is needed there are lots of good wagons that could transport dogs.

I put mine in the back seat of truck. They seem happy there but always go for the passenger seat..

[Kolesar]

28. Our aging golden found it easier to climb into a minivan than the Ford Explorer

The minivan was giganteously roomier and got 23mpg on road trips, which was a 20% improvement of the truckasaurus. The Explorer bounced when it hit bumps. We replaced that car with a 2600 pound hatchback that gets "high twenties mpg" in typical driving. We got 27 mpg to 30 mpg on a road trip with a Yakima Spacebooster on the roof.

[Tesha]

36. They'll fit in a minivan too, and get better mileage than in an SUV. (NT)

[Taverner]

47. Wait until you see the new Honda CRV Hybrid

They're saying that SUV will get better MPG than the Prius

As a Prius owner, that will be amazing!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

53. THAT woud be utracool.

[Taverner]

56. Yes, I'm looking forward to it

Although most likely I will have to wait until the Hybrid Sienna, since I will need to seat over 6... :(

[Lorien]

63. In the 1970s we had station wagons

drove to Canada with my best friend's family as a kid; two adults, three kids (ages 12- 14) and two lab/ German shepherd mixes in a Station Wagon. No troubles!

[CRF450]

14. I drive a sports car, dont like that?

345hp from a 5.7 v8, averages around 22 to 23mpg, and has reached 31mpg on the interstate going 74mph. Can do 0-60 right at 5 seconds, and a top speed of 165mph. I like sporty coupes and thats all I will buy. I do have a truck though, but its usually only for my summer job.

[harmonicon]

18. I could care less what you drive

But I think you would agree that it isn't necessary. It's probably fun, but I would really be shocked if you'd ever had to use that giant V8 to outrun a gang of biker werewolves or something.

[CRF450]

22. Not really necessary, your right.

But its what I enjoy driving. I need to get another car though to keep the miles off of it. Even though the Camaro is coming back, the Trans Am's arent, and the late model ones like mine in the picture are already starting to become a collectors car. I'm considering buying a used Infinity G35 coupe as a daily driver, while I build up the T/A into a twin turbo'd street monster!

I drove a Prius before, and I didn't like it at all. I mean, sure the fuel milage is great but it just flat out sucks. Other hybrids dont appeal to me, Lexus has high performance hybrid sedan which I think is pittiful cause is barely gets better fuel milage than my T/A.

[harmonicon]

24. I'm not really a car guy (because I can't afford to be)

but I understand wanting to keep the miles off of it. I didn't even realize the trans am wasn't being made anymore. I really wanted one when I was a kid, but as an adult I've always just been happy (not happy, but dealt with) with whatever doesn't break down. My dad had a late model (before the newest one) mustang convertible that was a fun car. Still he never drove it in the winter - would even take the insurance off for months at a time. Unfortunately that car was wrecked in an accident (not speeding related!), so he got something new: a mazda 3. I couldn't believe it, but it's a really fun car. If you are at all interested in hybrids, and you can afford it, you might want to check out the new toyota camry hybrid. A guy I used to work with said it was one of the nicest cars he'd ever been in - better than a bmw.

[CRF450]

25. 2002 was the last year model for them.

[Pavulon]

30. They are great

Test drove one. Very nice. Lexus nice.

These are the good old days for car people. There is so much out there.

From the speed3 an affordable fun fast car to the nissan gt-r.

Diesels are on the upswing in the US. Should be great.

[harmonicon]

35. are diesels on an upswing?

About a year ago my dad was looking for a new car, and we checked out the new VWs. Diesel isn't even available on the new rabbit, while it was on the old one. You could get a jetta diesel, but they didn't bring the jetta wagon to the US, and we're a dorky hatchback family. If I do live some place where I need a car again I'd like to get a diesel.

[Pavulon]

48. 50 state diesels

will be sold by honda, vw, mercedes, and maybe audi (they make nice wagons).

[harmonicon]

52. I didn't realize that honda had a diesel - good to know, as that's probably more my price range. nt

[JeanGrey]

58. Your Trans Am is ok, but I bet I could have beaten your socks

off with our Shelby. Now that is a muscle car................

[CRF450]

60. Which Shelby?

The new GT500 Mustang? I know those are real beasts, and its real easy to get more power out of them since they're factory supercharged.

[JeanGrey]

64. No, a REAL shelby - 60's.

[NashVegas]

16. There Was a Certain Other Element With SUVs

That, interestingly enough, Toyota (I think, though it may have been Ford) exploited in a commercial in the early 1990s.

The scene was in a gym, bunch of guys lifting weights. Over the loudspeaker was an announcement: "Will the owner of the white minivan come move your car?" Everyone looks around at each other, no one budges. Message: it's not manly to drive a mini-van.

[daleo]

21. Thorstein Veblen

Conspicuous consumption.

[harmonicon]

26. thanks - I'm horrible with remembering names, places, dates, etc.

[Chovexani]

54. That's very interesting

I agree that to a lot of people (especially Hummer owners) SUVs are about keeping up with the Joneses and are status symbols, but I hadn't thought of the Victorian dog parallel.

What an interesting bit of analysis (and spot on, IMO).

[mikeytherat]

6. When I lived in Utah and Michigan and we REALLY got snow, most "4x4s"

as they were called, looked sort of like this:



Not very "cushy" by modern (or non-sadistic) standards but, boy howdy, they could go and go through the snow. Ironically, many (like the one pictured), were Toyotas.

mikey_the_rat

[IronLionZion]

8. Is that an FJ cruiser or a Land Cruiser?

just curious, but yeah Toyotas rock. The simple Tacoma 4x4 has helped a lot of people I know who live in the mountains back east. A small, high, light truck is certainly better than any SUV for off-road or snow driving although I prefer a car for the road.

[mikeytherat]

9. FJ40

Old Landcruisers rock, too.

mikey_the_rat

[ileus]

40. that's a real FJ....

[happyslug]

19. When I wen off-roading we found those thing to small.

This what the group I went off roading with like, it was NEVER stopped by snow, mud etc.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M35_2-1/2_ton_cargo_truck


In my old unit we did have some Dodge Pickups with four wheel drive (Part of the Chrysler bailout of the mid 1970s the US Army purchased Dodge pickups with four wheel drive for its use). We had the Dodge pickups for several years and our comments was they should NEVER be taken off hard pack roads. When we did we had to send a 2 1/2 ton with them to haul them out of any mud-hole they ended up in (Or send a 2 1/2 M35 when they became stuck in whatever mud hole they called us from). Our opinion as to those pickups were pretty uniform, the only place they should be was "downrange" with all the other obsolete equipment to give people something to shoot at.

Now the picture is of a M35A2, I drove a M35, a six Cylinder GASOLINE engine 2 /12 ton built in 1946 (I served in the 1980s in the National Guard, but 40 years old didn't make them obsolete, just old). The last M35 in my National Guard unit were converted to Diesels in the 1980s but Gas jobs (when they were work, the engine were shot) had actually better low speed power then the later Diesels and "Multi-fuel" trucks ("Multi-Fuel" trucks were diesels that could use gasoline mixed with engine oil in a pinch).

All of the M35 were good cross country, in the snow etc. One time we were in Ft Indiantown Gap during a winter camp, it was severe storm for Pennsylvania and we were pulled out of woods into the barracks for it was so bad out (and we had NOT been issued any winter gear, it was tobe issued when we hit the Gap, but they sent us to the Field instead, but that is another story). We we arrived back in the barracks the drivers (including myself) were called back out and sent back up Blue Mountain (The First Mountain of the Appalachian chain in Pennsylvania and where Indians town gap is Located) to get the infantry out. We went up the tank road for the paved road was impassible found the infantry and drove them back to the barracks. We used only the 2 1/2 ton trucks, none of the Dodge Pickups for we wanted vehicles that would go in that weather condition (I believe we had one or two Humvees, but we left them behind also, we had more faith in the M35 trucks).

M35 - Gasoline engine version made roughly mid-1950s.
M35A1- "Multi-fuel". Built as part of the transition from Gasoline to Diesel fuels the US Army made in the 1960s.
M35A2 - Diesel only version, made roughly post Vietnam as the Army committed itself to Diesel and dropped gasoline.
M35A3 Conversion of M35 mo-gas to Diesel Engine
M35A4, A5, A6, Conversion of earlier M35s to Diesel Engines, or other improvements. I believe the M35A6 is the conversions to an Automatic Transmission (The same transmission as on the replacements for the M35 series, the FMTV series of Vehicles). The M35s I drove, both Diesel and Gasoline were Standard Five speed transmissions (Through the actual shifting patten were different, the Diesel and gas jobs reversed 4th and 5th Gears for some reason).

For more on the FMTV series see:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/fmtv.htm
M35A6

[Orsino]

33. Back when we got ice storms around here...

...it was almost always the SUVs I saw in the ditches. Power has its advantages, but momentum can be deadly.

[Pavulon]

12. As to the marketing aspect

those vehicles do have a limited purpose. However they did keep many union jobs here. Ford and Chevy did well with that vehicle.

The tahoe and suburban are both capable of very high mileage (not mpg but 200k service life). Company I work for has various fleet vehicles, suburbans are pretty good for getting people and equipment around. Like the F trucks they are great vehicles.

Not a great daily driver for all people.

The prius sits in the compact car market. At the high end. A more expensive corolla, that makes you feel warm and fuzzy.


All demand is real by the way. Generation of that demand keeps Madison ave in business.

[laureloak]

15. BTW, $1500+ to replace battery pack.

[LeftyMom]

20. Has anybody actually had to do that yet?

Last I heard, nobody had one replaced due to degraded performance, only due to accidents, and Toyota started selling hybrids in Japan in '97, so some of them are rolling around with ten years old batteries now.

I mean, it'd cost that much to replace my transmission, but if it lasts the effective life of my car, who cares? Battery replacement cost is only an issue if the batteries frequently fail while the rest of the car is still useful (Toyota warranties them for 240,000 miles in California, so either they're very confident in battery longevity or expect to take it in the shorts on replacement costs, because there are a ton of Prii on the roads here. I'm kinda guessing they don't plan on losing $1500/car, so they must have good reason to think the batteries are good for a quarter of a million miles.) and there's no indication yet that will be a widespread issue. Surely if it were, some of the ten year old cars would have needed battery packs by now.

[laureloak]

37. Gas savings covers price difference after 45,000 miles .

That means it would take about 5 years for the gas savings to pay for itself (for me). And who knows that I won't have to replace the battery pack then? Nobody's had it replaced because they aren't that old. Car mfgrs are going to have to do signifcantly better on the pricing.

[LeftyMom]

41. Like I said, some of them are ten years old, and none have worn out a battery pack.

Likewise, some in service as taxis (both 1st and 2nd gen models) have over 200K miles on them, with no battery replacements other than accident repairs.

So if we've got both age and mileage nearing the expected use life for a typical car with absolutely zero battery replacements due to wear, the battery replacement cost isn't an issue.

The point of buying one isn't fuel savings alone, it could actually be engineered to be a bit more of a fuel miser than it is with some minor tweaking. The main point of the Prius' design is to minimize emissions.

[NickB79]

46. "they aren't that old"

Um, the first Toyota Prius was released in the US in 2001. It was released in Japan in 1997. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prius

These things have been on the road for over a decade now, with virtually no complaints about battery life. I wouldn't worry too much about replacing the battery, if the original Prius model is still on the road today.

[NickB79]

45. First, I've read of Prius taxi cabs with 300,000+ miles on them

That haven't needed to change the battery pack.

Secondly, the battery pack is compartmentalized; you can replace worn-out blocks instead of the whole pack at once, which makes it much less costly to take care of any battery failures. Even if half your battery blocks failed, your car would still drive; it would just drive more sluggishly and get slightly less mpg.

Third, the batteries are warrantied for 100,000 miles.

[CatholicEdHead]

17. I think the Honda CRV leads in that small SUV market

[dipsydoodle]

27. I've got one of those here in the UK

Looks like a 4WD but isn't really. They're 2WD unless they lose traction - you can't manually select 4WD. They're really just high estate : boot capacity is about the same as a Grand Crokee but CRV.s are far more conomic on fuel. Mine's a 2.2 CRD diesel and the negine is as quiet as a petrol version - not sure if you have those or not. Does over 40mpg to one of your gallons.

[amandabeech]

29. There was a market for station wagons, however.

The comfy SUV (as opposed to the original Bronco and Wagoneer) replaced the wagon for people who have larger families or routinely cart around a lot of stuff.

Now the thing will be the crossover or a smaller hybrid SUV, like the Ford Escape hybrid, which has been selling well.

[humbled_opinion]

31. I wish I could Afford one

I mean I really want to do my part but going green has serious mark ups not for the average income people... I think tax cuts should be given to the lower income or incentives for us to buy Green..
I hope a candidate brings that up... imagine the money we would save on gas... B-)

[Bigmack]

43. After tax breaks.. paid $20K for my Prius. nt

[fascisthunter]

32. You Know This Sort of Information Pisses Off The Conservo-Meatheads

To them, it's a "cultural issue"

[midnight armadillo]

34. The new Explorer concept lacks a v8

It has turbo v6 and a turbo 4 instead. 20-30% greater efficiency over the v8.

[ileus]

38. the exploder is very dated vehicle also.

[Robb]

42. So the same suckers who were convinced they needed Explorers

...have now been convinced by virtually the same marketing apparatus that they need a Prius. :shrug:

[fascisthunter]

44. Gee... another myth gets destroyed on a daily basis

corporate America looks so bad

[pleah]

49. I saw RFK,jr. on Chris Matthews show over a year ago, and he said

that we have had the technology since the 70's to make ALL cars and trucks run 40 mpg. AND that it would only be an increase in price of $500.

[TankLV]

50. "Prius" - Isn't that one of those "erectile" disfunction problems?

You know, "if you have an erection lasting for more than a few years...see your doctor"...

and if you DO go to see your doctor - what is it for - to BRAG about your "condition"?!?!

[LeftyMom]

51. That's priapism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priapism

[Chovexani]

55. I really want a Prius.

I even have my color picked out (Seaside Pearl :)). Emissions and environmental impact aside (which are very important to me), I'm a geek and from a tech standpoint they're amazingly cool.

[Robb]

59. Even more interesting:

...Turns out the CR-V passed Explorer in sales. More apples to apples (kinda, they're both "SUVs") and, IMO, a bigger deal:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=abJW3vRFePMI&refer=news

[Lorien]

62. And a huge contributor to climate change

a family friend has worked in Antarctica studying climate change for over 45 years. They saw a big jump in CO2 emissions that correlated with the increase in SUV sales. I'm sure it wasn't the only reason for the sudden spike, but it did have an impact.

And "lowering their sights"? what kind of objective "journalism" is this??? The Explorer is a total piece of crap. I have quite a few friends who own or have owned one, and they've had little more than complaints about them. Most of the time the older ones are in the shop, and one friend had a horrific rollover accident in one that nearly killed her. The Prius has a great ride (MUCH more comfortable that the Explorer) and is far more environmentally and economically friendly. It's a step UP, imho.