ABC Cuts 3 From Presidential Debate (Gravel, Hunter, Kucinich)

[Eugene]

Source: Associated Press

ABC Cuts 3 From Presidential Debate

Friday January 4, 2008 2:31 PM

By DAVID BAUDER

AP Television Writer

NEW YORK (AP) - ABC News is eliminating Republican
presidential candidate Duncan Hunter and Democrats Dennis
Kucinich and Ron Gravel from its prime-time presidential
debates Saturday night because they did not meet benchmarks
for their support.

The Democratic debate three days before the New Hampshire
primary will include Iowa caucus winner Barack Obama, Hillary
Clinton, John Edwards and Bill Richardson. It starts at 7 p.m.
EDT.

Shortly after Democrats leave the stage in Manchester, N.H.,
Republicans Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, Fred
Thompson, Mitt Romney and Ron Paul will arrive for their
own forum.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-7198359,00.html

[stray cat]

1. Didn't Gravel discontinue his campaign yesterday?

[PunkPop]

2. And isn't his name Mike?

[whopis01]

27. yeah, but who care about pesky little details like that...

Actually I amazed at how many places I have seen this article and you are the only one to bother pointing that out!

[still_one]

3. This is the arragance of the media. faux did it with ron paul, and now abc is doing it

it doesn't surprise me that abc did it since they have been shifting to a far right agenda for years

I certainly hope those repugs supporting Paul are upset with faux

Obviously, the corporations are worried that their people may not get in, so they will do what they can to censor what they don't want us to hear

[flvegan]

4. Thank you msm for picking our candidates for us!

Where would we be without you.

Oh, wait...

[peace13]

5. This is bull!

Why do the Dems settle for this. Obviously because the top three will be at an advantage if Kucinich is not on the stage. Why limit the Dems and then let the entire Repug clown show air. How can we permit the MSM to select our candidates? I hope that all Dems stand up and refuse to be manipulated.

[Drum]

6. Boooooooo!!!

They shortchange our country by marginalizing Kucinich.

:(

[Javaman]

7. And try and tell me now that the media doesn't control the message.

I just love when the media plays coy.

[dweller]

8. scroo dat !

Ted Koppel would be proud.

dp

[AngryOldDem]

9. Whose "benchmarks"?

I am so fucking sick of the media driving presidential campaigns. If they're still in the race -- by any definition of the term -- then they deserve a spot on the podium. Period. I wonder if this doesn't boil down to time constraint -- the more candidates, the longer the debate will be, and the more it will cut into Desperate Housewives or whatever the hell is on ABC's prime time schedule that evening.

[onenote]

31. how do you define who is "still in the race"

You indicated that anyone who is still in the race - by any definition -- deserves a spot on the podium. Well, it would have to be a very big podium -- here are the names of the candidates who have qualified for the Democratic party primary in NH: http://www.sos.nh.gov/Dem%20ballot.pdf

While a couple of these candidates have "dropped out" by at least one definition -- being on the ballot and eligible to receive votes -- they are still in the race. Should they be entitled to appear? What about all the fringe candidates that haven't dropped out.

Its entirely appropriate for the organization sponsoring the debates to establish reasonable criteria for who gets invited. And the criteria chosen by ABC are not unreasonable. All a candidate had to do in order to qualify was meet one of three criteria: finish in one of the top four spots in Iowa, get 5 percent or more in one any one of the last four major New Hampshire surveys, or get 5 percent or higher in any one of the last four major national surveys.

These criteria were announced in advance and none of the candidates on the ballot in NH complained at the time as far as I know.

[NikolaC]

32. 5%

Then how to explain Bill Richardson's inclusion? He only received 2%. Again a double standard.

[onenote]

33. Easily explained: you're wrong, Richardson met the criteria, DK didn't

One of the criteria was polling at 5% or above in one of the four most recent NH surveys (you only have to meet one of the three criteria, not all three). Richardson was polling at 5% in the CNN/WMUR poll Dec 27/30 and at 8 percent the one before that and 7 percent before that. He qualified.

If you can find a major NH poll or national poll that puts DK at 5% you might have an argument. But you won't find any such thing.

No double standard.

[stillcool]

10. What's up with Alan Keyes?

did he fold?

[geiger]

11. He and Joe Biden have started a club--guys who make a living running for President

[Jim Lane]

15. That's quite unfair to Biden

He's run twice in 20 years. Unlike Keyes, he's actually won elections to a significant office. Furthermore, Keyes actually did use campaign funds to pay himself a salary for campaigning. I don't think Biden has done any such thing.

I didn't support Biden but he clearly had the qualifications to be President. By contrast, I think even most Republicans consider Keyes a lightweight at best (or a fruitcake at worst).

[Jennifer C]

30. Yes, very unfair.

Biden was the most qualified.

The poster's comparison with Keyes is downright stupid and absurd.

[bluestateguy]

12. It's now time for the debates to only include the grownups

My opinion would have been different before the voting began, but now the voting has begun and it's time for the children to step aside.

[NikolaC]

16. Hmmm

http://www.alternet.org/story/12477/

Yup and one of the "grownups" was just excluded (the one who made the above linked speech). Dennis' exclusion was not unexpected though, enjoy more of the same with empty promises.

[Freddie Stubbs]

19. Considering that he came in dead last with zero delegates, it is apperent

that his campaign is heavy on ego and low on public support.

[Dr Fate]

21. "The Grown ups are in charge" Who was it that said that back in 2000?

Someone who supported the war and who has been wrong about pretty much everything-that is who.

I'm for Obama or Edwards, but it's pretty lame to characterize people who disagree as children.

Even though he is not my choice for the nod, I'd say Kusinich is pretty grown up guy- what is so childish about his views?

[grytpype]

13. AAAAAAAGH!!!! IMPEACH!!!! EVERYONE!!!! NOWWWWWWW!!!!!!!

DENIS IS THE ONLY ONE WHO GETS IT!!!!!

DO YOU GET IT?????

DENIS DOES!!!!!

!!!!!!

[winter999]

17. Because the Aliens told him so.

[pnwmom]

18. He could have demonstrated his viability by having an office in Iowa,

campaigning there, and getting at least some of the vote. As it is, he doesn't have much to stand on.

[Dr Fate]

22. Impeach everyone? No- just Cheney and Bush. Not all that crazy or far out, actually.

Then again, I guess he is crazy for thinking that the usual DLC traitors (AKA the "we" in "we dont have the votes") would ever let it happen.

[1monster]

14. So BOYCOTT all debates that boycott some candidates. And spread the word.

[cyclezealot]

20. Its not a boycott

Its that without a candidate who speaks my issues, I could care less .There are enought reviews to read whats going on. Some here only want a horse race and that is exactly what they get.

[Voltaire99]

23. Stop pouting. US democracy = $

If you can't pay, you can't play.

Surely nobody thought the media hold these "debates" because they "care," did you, children?

[Tarc]

24. this again?

The further this goes along, it is kinda natural and expected to see the bottom-dwellers lopped off. All of the above got zip for delegates last night and have been polling consistently dismally for months and months and months. I'd rather see more time spent in getting answers from the established front-runners.

Kucinich and Gravel and others had their chance to gain traction. They didn't. Enough is enough.

[NikolaC]

25. Really?

I was under the impression that, as long as they stay in the race, they had a right to be heard. But, I guess that they should just shut up, pack their bags and go home because they have been given a fair hearing and ample opportunity to share their platforms with most of the voting public :sarcasm:.

[Tarc]

26. That is exactly it

minus the pithy sarcasm.

Being in a debate isn't a right; it is earned by consistency in the polls. Finish up your helping of sour grapes and move on.

[NikolaC]

29. Sour Grapes, Oh Please

At least I know that the person I am voting for is distinguishable from those that will be at the debates tomorrow. Enjoy your helping of more of the same.

[LanternWaste]

35. They do have a right to be heard...

They do have a right to be heard just as the broadcast networks have a right to set any benchmarks they want.

The two are neither mutually exclusive nor mutually inclusive. As a matter of fact, in this particular instance-- the two really don't have a thing to do with the other.

[CONN]

34. Shouldn't this be decided by the people not corporations? (eom)

http://www.democrats.org/page/s/contactissues

[Qutzupalotl]

28. 7 p.m. "EDT"?!

They're still on daylight saving time?!

:spank:

[boricua79]

36. "did not meet benchmarks for their support"

Now the media chooses our candidates....

Let me know when we're different from dictatorial nations, where the government chooses the candidates, in collusion with corporate industry and media.

[Drunken Irishman]

37. So do you believe everyone running for president should be included in the debate?

IF ABC can't have benchmarks, that means every person declared pretty much has a legitimate excuse for being included in the debate. Now what would it be like if the New Hampshire debate included all the following...

Richard Caligiuri
Ken Capalbo
Hillary Clinton
Randy Crow
John Edwards
Mike Gravel
Henry Hewes
William Hughes
D.R. Hunter
Bill Keefe
Caroline Killeen
Tom Koos
Dennis Kucinich
Dal LaMagna
Tom Laughlin
Barack Obama
Bill Richardson
Michael Skok

These are candidates that have not dropped out and will appear on the Democratic ballot for the primary (http://www.sos.nh.gov/Dem ballot.pdf)

So why should we allow Kucinich in the debate and say, not Michael Skok? The fact is, you can't reason excluding ANY of those candidates, unless you actually believe there should be a benchmark the candidates need to make. The media is not choosing the candidate for you, they're just presenting a better format for the viewing public. No one wants to watch 18 people battle it out on the stage, they just don't.

Kucinich was left out because he has no campaign traction in the state of New Hampshire. Just like Michael Skok, who believe it or not, does have a website (http://www.michaelskok.com/). So what exactly is the difference between the Skok campaign and the Kucinich one? Do you think it's fair Skok and the rest of the candidates have been left out of all the major debates so far? I don't.