Church Gunman Left Online Rant Between Shootings

[joshcryer]

Source: 7 News Denver

Web site postings that authorities believe were the work of shooter Matthew Murray paint a picture of a young man angry at his religious home-schooling, enraged with organized religion and furious with Youth With A Mission.

His rage explodes in a posting that appeared to have been made between the shootings in Arvada and Colorado Springs on Sunday, saying, "You christians brought this on yourselves ... I'm coming for EVERYONE soon and I WILL be armed to the @#%$ teeth and I WILL shoot to kill. .... God, I can't wait till I can kill you people."

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"No I am not crazy, crazy is just a word, to me it has no meaning, everyone is different, but most of you @#%$ heads there in society, going to your everyday @#%$ jobs and doing everyday routine shi____y things, I say @#%$ you and die ....

"DEAD PEOPLE DON'T ARGUE. My belief is that if I say something, it goes. I am the law ... Dead people can't do many things like argue, whine, @#%$, complain, name, rat out, criticize, or even @#%$ talk. So that's the only way to solve argument with all you f__heads out there, I just kill. God, I can't wait till I can kill you people, I'll just go to some downtown area in some big city and blow up and shoot everything I can."

Read more: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14822541/detail.html

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Much more at link, and I did some digging and found the original forum where he was making his posts:

http://p223.ezboard.com/fexpentecostalforumsfrm7

They have since archived his murderous posts here:

http://p223.ezboard.com/nghtmrchld26s-posts-on-12907/fexpentecostalforumsfrm60

There's also this post which is mentioned in the article:

http://p223.ezboard.com/fexpentecostalforumsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=1725.topic&index=10

Pretty sad stuff. Try to think constructively with your replies and not make overly baseless generalizations. ie, "He was a Christian, no duh! Haha, stupid fundies." vs "He was brought up in a fundamentalist and authoriarian regieme, that's tragic."

[Gman]

1. Religious home schooling

Somehow I knew the fundies had something to do with this. They drove this kid nuts.

[joshcryer]

3. I was homeschooled by a fundie, it is deeper than that.

You have to include his interactions with the YWAM, read his comments there. There was a lot of debauchry, he was told one thing, and then the people there behaved differently, and when he was honest, he was scorned for it because of his personality. ie, he wasn't good enough for the overall community despite his willingness to be pure of heart.

[izzie]

2. I wonder

With the endless pills so kids do not need to learn a thing about control of them self and the end less guns has any thing to do with all this killing? Looks like a mix that will not work out well for any one.

[joshcryer]

4. He seemed perfectly in control, he just had the wrong ideas, imo.

You don't wage a very concerted effort to kill a lot of people without having a certain type of control. However, his belief system fell apart, and he blamed all for that which a few people caused to him. It seemed he was trapped for quite a long time in this cycle, and it finally reached a tipping point.

[Ian David]

5. Religious Home Schooling creates a new Carrie every day

[joshcryer]

6. Excessive indoctrination does this.

How many atheists wake up in the morning and tell their child that death means the ceseastion of existance, and that no gods exist. And do this morning noon and night? Tell them at breakfast, "God doesn't exist now, ya hear? No praying for you!" Tell 'em at lunch, "You haven't been listening to what those idiot Christians have been saying, have ya?" Tell 'em at dinner, "Well I'm so glad we're all athiests here. It's just so disgusting what the world has created with religions everywhere!" No, you don't. But this is exactly what sort of life the boy had to live under (instead of some sort of excessive atheism it was excessive, fundamentalist, authoritarian Christianity). Every day. Every night. He even gave it a shot once or twice.

In the end he died an atheist. Put an atheist in those conditions and you are looking at someone who will go mad.

But thanks for heeding the constructive thoughts request. It's much obliged from the long timers. :sarcasm:

[PassingFair]

8. By the way.

Anyone dreaming about the "fist of Satan" is not an atheist.

Just an observation.


From your post:

"In the end he died an atheist. Put an atheist in those conditions and you are looking at someone who will go mad."

[joshcryer]

12. Read his last post.

Read all of his posts. He was not a believer in any afterlife or deity. He had the same position as atheists. There is no god. There is no afterlife. There is no heaven or hell.

[PassingFair]

18. Which one was his last?

Didn't he think he was going to hell?

[joshcryer]

21. Yes, he said that.

But he also quoted:

"There is no god but man."

His viewpoints are highly conflicting. His finalization of death, his quoting of nilihistic viewpoints, he's not an idiot, he's rejected completely the deity despite his earlier "confession" that he "still belives in god" and is "going to hell soon." His religion is himself, going by his last post, going by the lyrics he posted, his philosophy is pretty open, though quite confused.

I only wish someone posted "whatever you're thinking about doing, please don't do it, people have families, people have loved ones," etc.

[PassingFair]

22. Sounds like a real "atheist".

:eyes:

[joshcryer]

15. By the way, the "Fist of Satan" reference is a song by "Marduk."

Many of his final postings are songs and lyrics that the Colombine shooters had used to play mind games.

Marduk - Darkness It Shall Be

Perfectly nilihist song to listen to.

[TalkingDog]

11. I would make one addendum to your theory.

We are all excessively indoctrinated. We are told where to go, what to think, how to act, what to do just about every second of our lives from just before the time potty training starts.

I agree that there needs to be some consistency between what we are told and what we observe, but even that "rule" can be broken, easily and often, as long as one other component is in place. The person who is being trained, indoctrinated...brainwashed, needs to feel some measure of acceptance by the authority performing the indoctrination.

I would venture that in addition to a strict religious upbringing with excessive rules, that this household allowed few personal boundaries (the child was not allowed have his own feelings or voice them) used harsh physical punishment and constantly criticized or belittled the child to the point where he was conflicted between the need for his ego to survive and their need to crush it.

Sociologist and some psychologists are not fans of Alice Miller, but I found her core description of the familial circumstances that develop a Hitler or a mass murderer more than compelling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Miller_(psychologist)


My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[joshcryer]

14. I think that's a fair enough observation.

The rejection from his peers did seem to cause him to reject his religious beliefs. He did seem "true to heart" at least until he was rejected. He wanted to belong, but he simply couldn't, this forced him to question his belief systems and create a fundamentally diametric belief system.

[nachoproblem]

31. How many atheists...

"How many atheists wake up in the morning and tell their child that death means the ceseastion of existance, and that no gods exist. And do this morning noon and night? Tell them at breakfast, "God doesn't exist now, ya hear? No praying for you!" Tell 'em at lunch, "You haven't been listening to what those idiot Christians have been saying, have ya?" Tell 'em at dinner, "Well I'm so glad we're all athiests here. It's just so disgusting what the world has created with religions everywhere!" "

Christopher Hitchens. That's the only one I can think of, though.

...

This reminds me, I remember a kid in high school who once told me, "I can't understand what it would be like not to believe in God. If I though there was no heaven or hell, I would probably shoot a whole bunch of people and then kill myself."

I had nothing to say to that. Let's "pray" he's still a Christian. :wow:


EDIT: and that was in the late 80's long before Columbine or any of it. It practically shows the course of the disease in our society. Damn.

[eridani]

32. Not Hitchens--Madalyn Murray-O'Hair

She was pretty creepy, though, and not in any way like most atheists I know.

[nachoproblem]

34. I'm pretty sure Hitchens qualifies.

In a recent speech to the Atheists Association of Whatever It Is, he was advocating genocide. Particularly against (although not limited to) the Muslims, who need to be bombed off the map because they are the single greatest threat to humanity. I'm paraphrasing here, but not exaggerating.

Of course, his excuse might be that he was drunk. He frequently is. I'm sorry, but I just don't think he's okay. I didn't know anything of him before he became a neocon, but that sure colors it in my book.

[NashVegas]

7. Did You See Where He Compares Himself to Ricky Rodriquez?

When the story first came down I snarked that it must have been one of Ted's old friends. Makes me wonder if my spec wasn't that far off.

[ingac70]

9. Dr. Frankenstein's monster turned on him. n/t.

[Christa]

10. This young man was poisoned by religion.

This kid was poisoned by religion, the only way out for him was killing himself. In his rage he took others with him.

I blame religion for it, before all the psychologists and therapists and preachers and pastors dissect this, they should have a cold, hard, analytical look at religion and the effects it has on society.

[joshcryer]

13. He was poisoned by it being in his face constantly.

Along with an overt rejection from his peers. Had he simply accepted the faith and become a drone he'd be fine. He questioned his existance, and then was forced to live under conditions that were against his belief systems.

He was essentially in an insane assylum. He should've been set free a long time ago, he should've had the opportunity to realize this for himself. But something kept him tied to it. He was a grown man.

He should've did what I did. Go to Seattle, Victoria BC, do lots of pot, and fuck until his brains were shaken back into saneness!!

(I come from his exact same background, fyi.)

[Gormy Cuss]

23. Your posts are why people who home school for religious regions scare me.

Not all are ideological zealots but I fear there are many children who are growing up to be drones without the ability to think critically and a few others who have a hard time reconciling the world as it is with the narrow viewpoint of their indoctrination like Murray.

It must have been a weird time for you when you first broke away. So many things to relearn.

[joshcryer]

30. Nope, I never bought in to it.

Same with this guy, it's obvious he never was "in" to the whole BS. He noticed the utter hypocrasy very early on.

[SlingBlade]

16. How sad

Not only for the victims but for this tortured youth.
Religion can and does do this to people.

Guns dont kill people
Religion does

[pattmarty]

17. Hey, I was bought up Catholic, and I'm scarred for life.

[Posteritatis]

19. "Pretty sad stuff" sums it up pretty clearly, yeah.

I hope that forum doesn't get too much flak over the whole thing; at least at first glance, they don't deserve that.

[joshcryer]

20. Looks like they already have people calling them instigators.

Pretty sad.

[8 track mind]

24. I've seen it before.......

Long time reader, first time posting!

I feel i need to share the story of my High School buddy, Issac C.

Issac's parents were hard core Jehovah's witnesses, hell bent on him keeping the faith and making sure he walked the straight and narrow path to righteousness, which is whatever they deemed appropriate at the time. Anytime the kid did something out of their moral guidelines, he was threatened with Divine retribution. Issac was never allowed to:

Hang out with friends
Attend any school function
Listen to music that did not pass the Parental test.
( he did manage to listen to ventures and the beach boys. I once got the 3rd degree from his Mother when i let him borrow "Play Deep" by the Outfield. This is when i discovered she was a raving lunatic bitch. Hoooo boy.... )



Issac really never got to be a kid. The only time he was happy was when he was at school. During Junior High and High School things really started getting tough for him. The one incident that really sticks out in my mind was April 1989, yearbook time. Issac's Mother deemed the yearbook to be 'full of sin' and therefore he was not allowed to have one, even though he had worked and saved money for it. This of course, made Issac an even bigger outcast.

He changed that day. Issac was no longer vibrant smiling kid he once was. That afternoon on the school bus, Issac said something that i thought i would never hear anyone ever say: he wanted to commit suicide. This of course freaked me out, but i told him it wasn't a wise choice and he could talk to me about it. This seemed to help, and throughout the evening i called and checked on him, taking the time to listen to him. The next day he thanked me for what i did.

As time passed on, his mother was making his life tougher for him. Issac had to witness every weekend and attend every church function, no excuses. Around the spring of 1990 Issac's Mom decided to yank him out of that sinful high school and just teach him at home. This is the worst possible thing you could do to a kid of 16-17 years of age. No graduation, no prom, no dating, no chance to be a crazy teenager. It was over just like that.

I didn't see much of Issac after that. Since we lived in a small town, we would bump into each other occasionally. But anytime i suggested we go do something, like get a burger or play a game of pool at the bowling alley, he would decline stating he had to do something for the Church or for his Mom. I last saw him face to face at the age of 21 and he was still living in the shadow of his parents and his religion.

I would occasionally hear things about Issac through one of the church members and his grandmother from time to time. From what i was told, it just seemed that things got much worse for him. Details are sketchy but it seemed that he fell in love with a girl that the mother didn't approve of and instead arranged a marriage between him and his 3rd cousin. Things were pretty rocky needless to say and they wound up having a kid a few years later. He tried moving away but he could not escape; the parent and the holy gospel followed him.

At the age of 32 on a spring day, Issac walked into his parents house, faced his mother, and shot himself in the head. He died instantly.

It seems the cycle repeats itself everywhere. When religion is used as a tool to manipulate someone, this is what you get. I have no use for any kind of religion and quite frankly the world would be better off with out it. This is one of the reasons I'm an Atheist.

[NMDemDist2]

25. what an awful story, but thanks for posting it and welcome to DU n/t

[8 track mind]

27. Thanks!

Glad to be here. This place has kept me sane for the last 7 years ;)

[Greyskye]

26. too tragic

:(

Thanks for sharing Isaac's story. My best friend in High School was raised by JW's - fortunately not as hardcore as Isaac's mother was.

Isaac was fortunate to have you as a friend.

Welcome to DU.

[8 track mind]

28. Every great once and

a while the crazy teenager would come out in him. I remember seeing him riding on an old Yamaha DT175 dirt bike, with no muffler, on a state highway drinking a bottle of beer he found. I haven't though of that in years!!!!
:rofl:

[nachoproblem]

33. Welcome

I'm a new poster too, and this has got me thinking. There's also something a friend of mine said to me in high school, that I posted earlier in the thread. That was much more an off-the-cuff remark and I don't think that kid was particularly disturbed, or had any idea the gravity of what he was saying. But I think it's revealing. If you have any ideology that tells you, "the ONE and ONLY purpose of life is X," this is what can ultimately happen.

I consider myself agnostic rather than atheist, but I have the same basic reasoning.

[beevul]

29. But Josh...

How could anyone possibly come to the conclusion that he intended to shoot alot of people. He was carrying that thousand rounds of ammo for...weight training...yeah thats it...for weight training. :sarcasm:

(sorry...thats been stuck in my craw since yesterday, and I couldn't resist)

[Dark]

35. Death solves all problems: No man, no problem.

-- Joseph Stalin

[western mass]

36. Christian terrorist educated in a fundamentalist madrassa?

I must have missed that headline on CNN.