BREAKING NEWS: Nine dead in shooting at Westroads Mall (5 injured)

[Omaha Steve]

Source: Omaha World Herald

Our son in law works at a car dealership at the mall. I just found out he is safe at his office. All of our family is accounted for. More on this later.

The link may not come up. The Herald site can't handle all the traffic.



Nine people are dead and five others are wounded, after a shooting at the Westroads Mall in Omaha. Most of the victims were inside Von Maur, said Omaha Police Sgt. Teresa Negron. Police say the shooter died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.



• Video: Westroads shooting
• Were you there? Send us an e-mail with your photos and first-person accounts from Westroads.



Live Updates on the shooting at Westroads Mall

• World-Herald reporters are sending in reports from Westroads Mall.
• World-Herald Blog: Talk about it

The AP video site has raw footage online.

Read more: http://www.omaha.com/

[Selatius]

1. Let me guess: The man has a history of mental illness, like the V-Tech shooter.

Time will tell if I'm right, but my gut tells me the man was disturbed.

[Omaha Steve]

6. Yep

The note left at the 19 year olds home said he is going out in style.

OS

[bluerum]

86. Shoots nine then self - think you are going out on limb calling him "disturbed?"

:sarcasm:

Batshit moon barkin off the rails is more like it.

[SyntaxError]

112. That's a bit harsh...

How about "having a bad day"?

[bluerum]

158. No doubt. One of the wrost possible.

[marshall]

138. Jilted by his girlfriend

The media is really hammering on the "cherchez la femme" card by mentioning in every newscast that he was just dumped by his girlfriend. How long will it be before the poor girl is tracked down and forced to tell her story?

[DemReadingDU]

2. more here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2411059

glad your family is safe

[abmand]

109. cnn

confirmed it was an SKS style rifle


a little background on the weapon- its a semi-auto russian rifle that was designed in 1945- its a predecessor to the AK-47 and fires the same medium powered .30 cal cartridge. the weapon has moderate accuracy is a favorite among collecters, plinkers, and hunters due to the cheap ammo and the enexpensive price of the gun ( i have a friend who hunts deer with one but says its a bit underpowered for deer hunting). For anyone curious it does NOT fall under the arbitrary definition of assault weapon since it has an internal fixed 10 round magazine. the average price for one of these rifles is $175. There are many different styles

[earthside]

3. There is Something Seriously Wrong

What is going on in this country?

[non sociopath skin]

5. Too many guns, my friend.

Period.

The Skin

[Suich]

15. Agreed.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Pavulon]

26. Wow only 5 posts before that trotted out (nt)

[superconnected]

31. I'm waiting for the pro gun crowd to explain how had these people been armed it wouldn't have

happened.
-------------------

Not likely. (meaning it would have happened.)

[Pavulon]

38. Pro/Con whatever

if you are looking for an unrelated (to this event) political topic to ensure lost votes and polarized people, pick gun control.

[wtmusic]

47. I know...let's ask the victims' families if they give a crap

about lost votes or "polarized people" :crazy:

[Pavulon]

77. Or the 90 people who died in cars today

and the 90 more who will die tomorrow..The issue is the person implementing the damage, not the weapon he choose.

[wtmusic]

85. So you would be all in favor of allowing citizens to build

bombs, correct (for their own enjoyment, of course)? This is a matter of principle, no?

[Pavulon]

87. You can do so

with a nominal amount of paper work. Principle, last time idiots messed with pointless gun control we got a Republican congress.

All for nothing, flash hiders, pistol grips and folding stocks.

[wtmusic]

90. Your point seems to be

that gun control is pointless because it is unenforceable. There's a certain amount of truth to that, but when you come right down to it no law is completely enforceable.

No one expects 100% enforcement. The point is to make it difficult enough to own dangerous weapons that some 19-year-old kid high on testosterone and who knows what else ruins 9 families' lives in a few moments.

[abmand]

99. so what laws do you propose

and how do you propose to enforce them

[Pavulon]

103. Define dangerous

22 rifle, 12 ga shotgun, or just scary looking replicas of military weapons.

Enforce existing law.

[wtmusic]

142. A good place to start

but when I even bring up enforcing existing law, or maybe stiffening penalties for people who allow maniacs like Cho to slip through the cracks, NRA types hit the ceiling and think I want to raid their gun cabinets...

[Carolina]

147. comparisons between

cars and guns always irk me.

Cars are for meant for transportation. They are not designed for the sole purpose of killing or destroying.

By contrast what do guns do? What is their sole purpose? To destroy and kill things, often the more, the faster, the better! They serve NO OTHER PURPOSE.

Anything in the wrong hands can be used as a weapon but guns are WEAPONS ONLY.

[fshrink]

157. Guess it means Europeans prefer cars to guns to kill eachother.

Let's amend the 2nd amendment. The right of people to drive cars. Cool. I love syllogism running wild. A disturbed individual or an idiot is just as dangerous with an automatic rifle as with a stone. The idiot running this country is just as dangerous as governor of Texas as at the White House. The issue is not torture but the sickos who use it. This is a gold mine that can turn everything upside down!

[superconnected]

Can you please explain how gun control is unrelated?

The gun was in the hands of a loon.

If it turns out he bought the gun legally, like the v-tech shooter did, it's a gun control issue.

Either way, he shouldn't have had the gun. Wrong hands to be in.

If you don't believe having guns is the problem, then surely you would see the importance in pointing out WHO has guns is the problem. Or are you totally polarized?

[Pavulon]

76. Mmm, so many problems

it is a people problem. When Japan banned weapons, people invented martial arts, to kill each other.

Vtech guy should have had mental treatment, which would have prevented him from legally owning a weapon.

Shooting people is illegal. That part of the law is pretty clear.

This issue in the hands of morons is political suicide.

[SharonAnn]

89. Gosh, other than in movies, it's hard for a martial arts person to kill 9 then themself.

[Pavulon]

106. Human nature ...

that was not meant to be taken literally. People intent on doing harm will find a way. legal or illegal.

How many calls would you have to make to find a copious amount of dope? It is illegal but still available? Odd..

[Endangered Specie]

127. Oh, you'd be suprised what you can do without a gun...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

This guy killed 8 with a kitchen knife in ('gun free') Japan.

[Art_from_Ark]

129. The Japanese knife-wielder killed defenseless elementary school kids

who were trapped in a second-floor classroom. It's quite different from using a knife to try to kill adults in a mall.

[1932]

159. Dunblane, Scotland -- man killed 16 kids & 1 adult at elementary school with gun.

Only one child in the class he shot at survived. He injured 11. One other child died who was in a different part of the school he attacked. The shooter used full metal jacket and hollow point tip bullets.

The kids were 5 and 6 year olds.

The police had considered revoking the shooters gun license before the incident based on complaints about him, but did not because, the deputy chief constable (who later resigned because of decision) felt the law did not allow it and it would have been overturned on appeal.

[Art_from_Ark]

132. That's just plain wrong

Although the Haitorei Edict of 1876 banned the public carrying of weapons (handguns and samurai swords) in Japan, it did not ban ownership. The ban on ownership was made after World War II, long after the first martial arts school, Butokuden, was opened during the Heian Period, which preceded the Renaissance by several hundred years. Judo, a relatively modern martial art, was developed in the 1880s as a variation of jujitsu, both of which contain the Chinese character for "gentle" in their names in reference to the fact that they are designed for disabling, not killing. The newer martial art of aikido (ca. 1942) is also designed to be non-lethal.

See, for example,
http://www.aikidofaq.com/history/index.html
http://www.masters-martial-arts.co.uk/jiu_jitsu_origins.htm

[Chovexani]

135. Are you serious?

When Japan banned weapons, people invented martial arts, to kill each other.

Please tell me you don't actually think this is Trufax. I'm having a hard time reconciling that level of stupid with the ability to turn on and operate a computer.

No, on second thought, just take your gun humping ass away from my practice.

[Pavulon]

154. You guys are a literal bunch..

considering your posts complete lack of intelligence would explain that flaw. So would simple inability to pick up on context clues, but you decided to be an ass.

Do you actually have something on point to say? Or just stroke your ego?

I am sure stricter gun control will prevent a mass murderer. I mean if I steal a car, I will be very concerned about the law regarding turn signals.

[JeanGrey]

91. Except the V-tech shooter did not buy the gun "legally".

The mental hospital he was in neglected to report to the state, and he (a disturbed individual) was allowed to buy a gun. Had his mental problems been reported as they should have been he would not have been able to get a gun, at least legally.

[Hannah Bell]

134. Where did you hear he'd been in a mental hospital?

I heard he was basically homeless, living with a friend & just fired from his job at McDonalds the same day.

[abmand]

126. it turns out

he stole the gun most likely

[bob4460]

28. not too many guns

there are too many taboos and pent up sexual repression that turns to aggression

[EV_Ares]

29. Yeah, correct, the guns are not the problem. All you have to do is take

a look back at all of these individuals that commit these horrendous acts and the signs were all there of mental problems. They are going to have to figure something else out because you can't confiscate the guns and that would not solve the problem with this stuff anyway.

[wtmusic]

43. Uh, yeah it would solve the problem

it would make them a lot less dangerous.

[abmand]

79. yeah...

and create the pesky problem of confiscation....you know government troops breaking down doors...

[EV_Ares]

104. guns are not the problem, the problem is a lot deeper than guns.

[abmand]

107. thank you

[pokercat999]

136. I like it

lets screw our way out of this, too bad you're a BOB and not a Barb. :rofl:

[raccoon]

141. self-delete Nt

[Mojorabbit]

88. I'd go with too little mental health care options

myself. So young and so disturbed and no where to turn for help.

[SyntaxError]

113. too many people too...

If there were only guns and no people, then this wouldn't have happened.

[cannabis_flower]

143. Have you seen....

Bowling for Columbine? Canada has more guns than we do but way less gun violence. Saying it's too many guns is oversimplifying the problem.

[kestrel91316]

7. What is going on? Far too often the problem is US. Yes, you and me

and the rest of the people who don't want to pay taxes to support adequate mental health care in our communities.

I have never yet voted against ANY measure that would fund mental health. But too many others do. I have personal experience with what happens when a family member doesn't get needed care. At least my mom is in assisted living now and not dead in an Omaha mall.

The guy shot a TEDDY BEAR. That says volumes about his mental state.

[slackmaster]

11. Too many people with untreated psychiatric problems

:nuke:

[BeHereNow]

17. And TOO many people given psych meds without proper monitoring for adr.

GP's give out psych drugs like aspirin these days.
It's criminal especially when it is WELL known
that ADRs happen MUCH more frequently in that age group.

BHN

[JeanGrey]

94. Problem is, a lot of them won't be monitored even if they have

access to care. My mother was bi polar and like that. In the old days (when we were young) when she'd go off the "deep end" we would simply call the cops and they would come and get her. Nowadays everyone has rights, so they won't do that. I remember when my mother had her last breakdown the year before she had to go into nursing care, she told the chief of police that an Indian Chief stood outside her window and communicated with her telepathically, and that was NOT enough to get her committed! I had to go to court and pay and drag in experts to have her proven incompetent to get her care. That is one of the biggest problems as well today - not just the lack of care but the lack of way to make a mentally disturbed person GET care and KEEP it.

[DLnyc]

34. Such as the pResident, the vice pResident, . . .

I personally don't find it a stretch to think that violent, selfish criminal behavior on the part of a country's top figures and institutions could affect the mental state of already iffy types. Add in a stressful social and economic environment, mix in lots of readily available lethal firepower and presto! you have quintesentially American violent insanity run amok!

Yes, treating people's psychiatric problems would help. Setting a less psychopathic example at the highest levels of society would also help.

[TwilightGardener]

4. Glad your family's OK, Steve. Hard to believe this happened in the big O--

of course, everyone says that no matter where they live, I guess.

[guruoo]

8. Online live video coverage here...

http://www.ketv.com/video/14779144/index.html

[bemildred]

9. So are we going to get a war on mental illness one of these days? nt

[zeemike]

19. Yep

They are probably drawing up the contracts with Blackwatter to run camps for those that are mentally ii or are suspected to become that way.

You'd better watch what you say
They will be calling you a radical
A liberal
A subliminal criminal.

[maddezmom]

10. Shootings apparently linked to Sarpy County man, left a suicide note

Shootings apparently linked to Sarpy County man

147 comments


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A | A | A
Live Coverage
Police say at least nine people were shot to death and at least five others were injured in a shooting at Westroads Mall this afternoon. The shooter apparently shot himself to death.

Creighton University Medical Center confirms two fatalities there; one man and one woman. Another person is in critical condition.

Three victims were taken to the Nebraska Medical Center, one in critical condition with a chest wound. One person has an arm wound and the third was being treated for cuts to the face.

Shortly after 4 p.m. Omaha Police Sergeant Teresa Negron said that 14 people were shot; nine had died and five were injured.

Names of those invovled were not initially released.

Police don't believe that anyone other than the gunman who killed himself was involved.

Omaha Police Sergeant Teresa Negron said, "As far as we know, there is no other shooter inside the mall."

Channel 6 News has confirmed that a 19-year-old Sarpy County man left a suicide note this afternoon stating, "I'm going out in style."

That man’s vehicle was found in the mall parking lot.



more;http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/12163196.html

[flamingyouth]

13. God, that is just horrifying.

:(

[maddezmom]

20. more: Suspect Identified As Bellevue Man, 19

Suspect Identified As Bellevue Man, 19
Witness 'Kept Hoping God Would Spare Us'

POSTED: 2:01 pm CST December 5, 2007
UPDATED: 5:20 pm CST December 5, 2007


OMAHA, Neb. -- The shooter at Westroads Mall was identified as Robert Hawkins of Bellevue.

Hawkins, 19, had been arrested on a couple of misdemeanors in November and was due in court this month. One charge included minor in possession.

Sarpy County deputies are getting a warrant to search Hawkins' home in Quail Creek.

4:30 p.m., Rollie Yost, in the Sarpy County Sheriff's Office, said shortly after the shooting, Hawkins' mother walked into its office with a note that "could be interpreted as suicidal."

more:http://www.ketv.com/news/14782867/detail.html

[BeHereNow]

24. Next question, the one we won't have answered:

Was he taking any prescribed SSRI drugs?
BHN

[Blue Diadem]

145. According to this he was on antidepressants.

Had to find it, I knew I read it somewhere.

http://www.ketv.com/news/14785654/detail.html

snip:
A friend of Hawkins, Shawn, told KETV NewsWatch 7 said Hawkins had been on antidepressants. He was staying with friends in Quail Creek, the friend said, and he said Hawkins had recently begun bouncing from job to job and making "some bad judgment calls." Shawn said he was shocked to hear it was the man he calls "Robbie." Shawn said he had heard through the grapevine on Wednesday that Robbie was suicidal.

[BeHereNow]

151. The UK has banned SSRI prescriptions for people under 18

This due to the evidence that it can increase either
homicidal or suicidal ideations in that population.
Naturally, those findings are covered up in this country.

The shooter was not much over 18, so I'm would not be surprised
if his actions were related to an ADR.
I'd be curious to know if he had recently switched medications-
apparently, that can sometimes result in extreme ADRs.

Of course, we'll never know because the pharma cartel
will pay off who ever they need to to silence the issue.

BHN

[Dawggie]

21. Dear God, how tragic.

This raises two problems:
1: The difficulties for people to acquire mental health care (even if it's the "stigma" that many want to avoid).
2: Ease of access to firearms.

I've heard reports that it was a M-16. What a great toy for an unbalanced 19 year old.

[Endangered Specie]

30. M-16's are illegal to own

[Dawggie]

35. Maybe it was a Ruger Mini 14...

Had a friend who carried one in his trunk with a couple of banana clips taped together for when he went into "rough" neighborhoods.

He was a Stone Mtn. cop who was not all that bright.

[Pavulon]

39. Maybe it was your grampys shotgun

does not matter. The weapon this person chose is not the issue. The person causing the deaths is the problem.

[Paladin]

155. You Need To Get With The Program

As far as you DU gun activists are concerned, when an incident like this takes place, the kind of weapon involved is generally ALL you guys care about. You sure as hell don't care about yet another mass bloodletting, because such tragedies are considered to be acceptable trade-offs for your having access to as many different firearms as possible.

The inevitable thread has started down in the Gun Dungeon; it has the usual features, including:

---The excoriation of the media because in the midst of the confused, bloody, emotional incident at that mall, their initial reports failed to identify the murder weapon in exact detail.

---Rants about what an underpowered, wussy cartridge the .223 is. That ought to be a real comfort to the families who had to visit funeral homes today to make arrangements for their loved ones.

---The usual statement that---statistically---rifles aren't used that much in crimes. Again, just the thing to perk up people who are fixing to bury their relatives.

Charming stuff, as always; just what we've come to expect from you folks.....

[Pavulon]

156. See POST 5..Bringing gun control in as a cause..

I said nothing aboout the 5.56 round. It appears the shooter used a 7.62x39 round, fired from a stolen weapon. Not that it matters, facts never do..

The ignorant bring up gun control every time there is a shooting because they see the dead as a great way to advance their points.

The shooter used a common rifle, not a scary black one, or AK. My point is that ANY rifle or shotgun is capable of causing similar damage.

So unless you plan on banning everything, you have no reasonable solution in gun control.

Maybe a knee jerk ban on ssri would be better.

[derby378]

80. Not in Texas, they aren't

Only thing is, you still need an NFA Class 3 license to own a full-auto M-16. Semi-auto versions don't require anything other the prerequisite background check and BATFE paperwork.

[Pavulon]

83. And $20,000 dollars

the going price for a pre 1984 regulated weapon. Plus the tax stamp of course. Then you must follow the regulation on owning and transporting it.

[murray hill farm]

12. This will get worse.

between now and the end of the year. It always increases during the holidays, which..in general have a tendency to throw people over the edge if they are anywhere near it to start with..and then have to face the holidays. The economy will add to it..add to the pressure and the lack of ability to live up to expectations both of xmas and the personal view of worth. Add to that, the returning troops, which we are not at all equip ted to help deal with the ptsd in so many numbers coming home..not just now but for many years to come. We are not at all equip ted, nor have we planned for the numbers who will need help. They are and will be added to the many emotionally troubled that are also invisible in our country. We can expect a rise in incidents now..over the holiday season, but it is only the beginning of an ongoing and serious problem that we can expect to see in our country.

[EV_Ares]

40. Can you believe this country cannot do better regarding mental health. Granted,

it will not solve every person's problem, every incident like this but it will make progress in helping people to cope with problems they see as totally overwhelming them with no way to solve them, no help, no support. We need to do better and we can do better. Also, they need to force the insurance companies to start treating mental illness as they do other medical conditions.

It is so tragic how we refuse to face up to mental illness in this country.

[JeanGrey]

92. I just heard an interview of a friend of his who said he was an

"easy target" and that he was picked on a lot. I'm not surprised. This is almost ALWAYS the case for all these kids that go berzerk, teasing and the like.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

14. it's Al Qaeda!!!

just kidding, it's not.

[edbermac]

16. Actually, it's Hillary's fault!

That's how they'll spin it on FAUX Snooze.

[BlueManDude]

18. If everybody had a gun this wouldn't happen.

[xchrom]

22. this wouldn't happen as often as it does -- it would happen more. nt

[rAVES]

23. Please dont turn this into a gun control issue! this has nothing to do with guns.

:sarcasm:

[superconnected]

36. The loon had a gun and he shouldn't have. It totally has to do with guns.

[RantinRavin]

41. So he was already banned from having guns

obviously gun bans don't work.

[superconnected]

46. Can you please post where he didn't buy the gun legally?

I was considering it was another flaw in the system, giving the loon a gun.

As far as gun bans, it would prevent that flaw because all loons wouldn't be given one by walking into a store that sells them. They'd have to find another route.

I am not for gun bans, so I'm only entertaining your assertion. I'm against the current environment of giving people guns without a mental evaluation, and full background check.

[Pavulon]

78. BTW a mental evaluation

is not required to buy bulk explosives.

Not fertilizer and diesel, but tons of high explosives, can be purchased with about the same paperwork as a handgun.

[SyntaxError]

116. mental evaluations and extensive background checks should be required...

However, I can't help but wonder how useful it would be for someone who for the most part is 'sane', but something happens and that person has a breakdown of sorts... I would think such screenings would have to be routine. But that then leads to the question of how such screenings would be enforced. Do we start having the police raid peoples homes to confiscate their guns?

[abmand]

133. in theory your plan sounds good

..but then you get into the murky waters of constitutional rights, medical record confidentiality.

[Pavulon]

137. Should that be required for other rights as well

mr smith before you can post online potentially damaging opinions the state will need to sanity check you...

Sorry. That is a no go.

[SyntaxError]

148. I think someone needs a jetpack today...

*jetpack*

[SyntaxError]

115. it has everything to do with jetpacks.

[Liberal Jesus Freak]

25. I'm thankful your family is okay.

Love and hugs to all of you. What a dreadful day for everyone involved. I guess, really, that's all of us, isn't it? Take care.

[lanlady]

27. We should pass a law

requiring all mall Santas and elves to carry concealed weapons in their beards. That's the only way to prevent this needless loss of life.

[Omaha Steve]

32. I was a Santa on duty at the Cross Roads mall during a deadly shooting there

The Cross Roads Mall is about 25 blocks East of West Roads. I remember 1 dead for sure. I didn't know about the shooting until about a 1/2 hour later. It was about 1997 or so.

[acmavm]

33. An 18-year old boy did this. What can he have been thinking to make him

believe that he had the right to kill 8 people because his life wasn't making him happy?

[AlinPA]

44. He was probably just thinking that he was defending himself. nt

[wtmusic]

45. Or hunting. Or exercising his 2nd Amendment rights. Or protecting

himself against abuses of power. :crazy:

[JeanGrey]

96. He was 19, I read. He had mental problems, had been kicked

out of the house I understand, and was depressed and according to friends, he was an "easy target" for abuse and teasing from others and was smaller than usual which also contributed to that. You never know when people are going to snap.

[superconnected]

37. So whats the gun death total for todays prime news - 6 bullets in a 7yo, 2 in her mom, 8 innocents

killed in a mall. 5 extras shot.

People right here deluding themselves into believe it's not a gun issue.

At the very least this is a GUN CONTROL issue, which makes it a gun issue.

Cowboys think it wouldn't have happened had the innocents been armed but frankly, I don't think the 7 yo should be carrying one.

Man with big speeding truck bomb attacks and it kills no one.

0 spoon deaths still. Remember spoons are just as dangerous as guns. Just ask your fellow du-er's.
What I don't get is if spoons are so easy to get a hold of, why don't we have mass spoon murderers out there. Oh yeah, because that was an asinine argument - that keeps coming back. Go for it gun nuts, tell us how spoons are as dangerous as guns again. I'm wielding a spoon right now, scared? I could bruise you, 1 tiny spot at a time.

[MikeNearMcChord]

81. To those who think if someone who was armed could've stopped

this, forget that when gun owners shoot at targets, the targets don't shoot back, most people outside of Law Enforcement or combat probably could not honestly know how would they react, if they were being shot at by a determined gunman with a deathwish.

[abmand]

95. wow

you seriously overestimate the skill of law enforcement. Hate to break your bubble but law enforcement training in firearms is shooting at paper targets that are stationary at different distances. in fact id bet to say a CCW permit holder probably is a better shot than a n NYPD officer. You ever wonder why the NYPD requires 80 shots to bring one guy down???? training in reality means nothing- its all about practice, most gun owners practice more than police. The reason for this is most gun owners enjoy shooting, while most younger officers just think of the gun as another tool- like a carpernter feels about his hammer.

i would take a CCW holder over a rookie cop anyday

[MikeNearMcChord]

146. I am gun owner myself, and yes I shoot targets

but unlike rookie cops which are usually paired with veterans in big cities I don't train in situations that they go through. You may think you might have smoked the shooter and perhaps you may, but it is folly to think in the comfort of you home, with no sense of terror or the adrenaline flowing that you are sure you might not freeze up at that moment. The man shot at the Tacoma Mall a couple of years ago, was armed also but most likely froze at the critical moment against the gunman with an automatic and was paralyzed.
I would bet against the odds that some CCW holders and their macho fantasies think that they can stop a gunman determined to kill a large number of people.

[VolcanoJen]

42. It's probably just me, but I find this weird.

Bush was in Omaha today. First thing I thought of when I first heard the news while at work.

The shooter was identified as Robert Hawkins, which just jumped out at me because that's the name of the character Lennie James plays in "Jericho." If you've ever seen "Jericho" (CBS TV show), and know Hawkins, you'd know why that struck me as very, very odd.

Just me, but it's been a topsy-turvy odd day, hasn't it?

[balantz]

It's too much of a coincidence

for me that shrub was a few miles away just an hour before. I wonder if he may have been prepared to carry out something else today but was unable to and stopped at the mall after shrub left?

[syberlion]

119. That death follows shrub where ever he goes

Is not surprising to me in the least...

As for the other issue, if it was truly someone bent on that type of mission, they would of gone to the waste water treatment plant and shot the rats hanging around the raw sewage tanks to get the same sense of satisfaction...

Personally, I think that's a slight against the rats...

[balantz]

144. Agreed

[Hawaii Hiker]

48. I'd bet anything the Republican candiates (namely Romney & Huckabee)

will pin this tragedy in Omaha to Hollywood violence..They'll give the tired old rhetoric about how movies like "The Matrix", etc. corrupt youth, blah blah blah....And of course, rap music will get blamed to...

Republicans generally make tragedies like these a FIRST Amendment issue as opposed to a Second Amendement issue - quite the irony isn't it...

[abmand]

101. this is why i dont trust politicians

all of them want to take your rights, the only difference is which ones

patriot act- its for the children
gun control- its for the children

all a bunch of "rubbish" if you ask me

[Newsjock]

49. Shots Fired Inside (Omaha mall); 5 May Be Injured

Source: KETV

OMAHA, Neb. -- A man was reportedly shot inside the Von Maur store at Westroads Mall on Wednesday afternoon.

An elderly man was found near an escalator in the store, and police said a young black man was being sought as the suspected shooter. Early indications were that as many as five people may be injured.

Read more: http://www.ketv.com/news/14782867/detail.html

---

Live video here: http://www.ketv.com/video/14779144/index.html

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maddezmom]

51. local CBS stations; Two Reported Dead in Mall Shooting

local CBS stations; Two Reported Dead in Mall Shooting
Two Reported Dead in Mall Shooting

Posted: Dec 5, 2007 02:03 PM CST




Omaha, NE - Omaha police are responding to a possible shooting at Westroads Mall. Police radio reports indicate two people are dead, and up to five people have been shot. There are two suspects. It does not appear either is in police custody. Stay with Action 3 News on the air and online for the latest developments.

http://www.kmtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7455348

[bdamomma]

52. peace on earth good will towards men ????

yea sure.

[stillcool]

53. War on Christmas..

must have already started.

[maddezmom]

54. one may be in custody

http://www.ketv.com/video/14779144/index.html

[maddezmom]

55. Two Men arrested arrested at Westroad bus stop

according to live coverage
http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/12163196.html

[maddezmom]

56. WOWT: Person found with self-inflicted gunshot

[nealmhughes]

57. Is that the mall at 124th and Pacific?

I always went to Crossroads at 72nd and Dodge when I lived there.

Wow! I used to walk all over Omaha from 50th and California to Downtown with no qualms and never a second glance back in the early 90s!

[Bluzmann57]

58. This is scary stuff

This could happen anywhere in America. And the store where it happened, Von Maur, is headquartered here in Davenport, IA. I have been to our local Von Maur a few times, and to think it could happen in a place like that is scary indeed. The store caters to a somewhat more elderly crowd. I suspect the Omaha store is similar.

[maddezmom]

59. MSNBC: Report: Man shoots at least 5 in Omaha mall

BREAKING NEWS
MSNBC staff and news service reports
updated 2 minutes ago
OMAHA, Neb. - At least five people were shot Wednesday at a busy Omaha mall, local media reported, and police locked down the shopping center.

At least two people were carried out in stretchers, NBC affiliate WOWT-TV reported. Officials told the station that one person had a self-inflicted gunshot wound. It was unclear if it was the shooter.

At least five people were transported to a local hospital. Police told WOWT-TV that all the injured had been removed from the store.

more:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22116784/

[heliarc]

60. Somebody popped a cap in the guy who got the last wii nt

[slackmaster]

62. Or maybe it was a parking lot dispute that got ugly

'Tis the Season.

[sarcasmo]

61. One of the many reasons to shop online.

[MGKrebs]

63. Bush is in Omaha today.

[Drunken Irishman]

64. We had a shooting here in Salt Lake earlier this year at a local mall.

Five people were killed. It was really bad. Scary stuff, hope they all live.

[Rainbowreflect]

65. Confirmed two deaths at least.

One more in critical condition.

[Redstone]

66. Well, that'll teach those "gun grabbers," won't it? See, if EVERYONE in the mall

had a gun and started opening up, well, there'd be at least TWELVE dead instead of a puny two...let's arm everyone, and get those casualty counts up where they ought to be!

Redstone

[abmand]

82. you actually dont know that

....and you sound like an idiot btw....if you are going to make fun of gun enthusiasts, because you are just perpetuating a stereotype that is no better than "jews are all rich" and "blacks are all criminals"

I dont know a gun owner that advocates giving everyone a gun- we just advocate allowing people the choice to carry a gun. it is well within your right not to carry a gun.

[Redstone]

93. Balls. There are PLENTY of "gun owners who advocate giving everyone a gun." Just use

the search function and you'll find plenty of them right here on DU, saying what I said, but in their case, not sarcastically.

Redstone

[abmand]

97. in actuality

they say "if that person had a gun maybe they would still be alive" and that is true- is having a gun a garuntee that the person would be alive, maybe if they were standing .23 mm to the right they would still be alive....

please show me where the advocate giving everyone a gun

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[abmand]

102. i have looked it up

and all i have seen is the statement "if someone had a gun maybe this wouldnt have happened" not once did i see the statement that everyone needs to carry a gun....btw since you are the one thats claiming that its your responsibility to prove that its true.

maybe you dont want to show me because you are unsure about it yourself?

though i might have missed one- but i doubt one would be considered plenty

but i sense that by the use of your words that instead of having a debate you would rather "dehumanize" the other person in order to make your argument seem more "correct" because if you can do this, his/her logic is completely nullified

[Redstone]

105. Bullshit. You're baiting me, and I'm not taking the bait. Goodbye.

Redstone

[abmand]

108. im not baiting you

all im saying is that i dont believe that plenty of gun owners have said that everyone should be armed and then you are asking me to prove your argument.

i have seen the statement "if someone" but not everyone. and there is a big difference- one implies choice

[Toots]

140. There is a town that passed a law demanding every home be armed.

I would call that advocating for everyone to be armed...

[slackmaster]

150. Kennesaw, Georgia

And it had a clear provision for conscientious objectors.

So no, it did not call for everyone to be armed.

[beevul]

121. Oh BULLSHIT.

"There are PLENTY of "gun owners who advocate giving everyone a gun."




Put up or shut up. If as you say there are PLENTY, cite 5 posters that say give EVERYONE a gun. Not "give everyone the choice", but give EVERYONE a gun.

Its YOUR claim, back it up, otherwise its bullshit.

[slackmaster]

149. That is a straw man, Redstone

You won't find one single person on DU suggesting that everyone be armed.

[zanne]

160. Wild West shoot out!

And I'm sure there'd be plenty of people with video cameras taking it all in to sell to the highest bidder. Y'know what they call it when two sides of people fire upon each other? WAR! Gee, wouldn't that be fun?
Don't even both trying to talk sense to the gun people, Redstone. If somebody shot their grandma, they'd still see nothing wrong with owning guns. They're hopeless.

[RamboLiberal]

67. ABC is reporting at least 7 Dead

in their breaking news headline:

AT LEAST SEVEN PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE SUSPECTED GUNMAN, ARE DEAD IN SHOOTING AT OMAHA, NEB., MALL, LAW ENFORCEMENT SOURCES SAY

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3958863&page=1

On edit:

At least seven people were found dead -- including the suspected gunman -- and others injured during an afternoon shooting spree inside a busy Omaha shopping mall during the height of the holiday shopping season, authorities told ABC News.

Officials described the suspected shooter as a white male with an automatic long-gun who died from a self inflicted gun shot wound and was found on a third floor counter.

Snipers and SWAT teams were quickly dispatched to the scene as the Westroads Mall was placed on lockdown early Wednesday afternoon. Shoppers were allowed out, but no one was permitted to enter the mall.

Creighton University Hospital and federal officials confirmed to ABC News that three injured people had been taken there for treatment. Only one, a 61-year-old man, was described in critical condition with a gunshot wound to the chest. Of the other two victims, both men, one was shot in the arm and the other received a cut to his face.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3958863&page=1

[maddezmom]

68. Police conference on now, I thought she said 9 have died

but I may have misunderstood. :(

edited to say, the number is 9 and that includes the shooter.

[RamboLiberal]

69. It's possible - most websites haven't caught up to the story yet n/t

[maddezmom]

71. local news: Police: 9 Dead; Apparent Shooter Dead

Police: 9 Dead; Apparent Shooter Dead
Shots Fired At Westroads

POSTED: 2:01 pm CST December 5, 2007
UPDATED: 4:08 pm CST December 5, 2007


OMAHA, Neb. -- Omaha police said nine people were dead, including the alleged shooter, after shots were fired inside the Von Maur store at Westroads Mall on Wednesday afternoon.

Sgt. Teresa Negron said there are nine fatalities. She said officers found the suspected shooter dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Negron could not describe the shooter, but said he was a male. Negron said most of the victims were inside Von Maur.

more:http://www.ketv.com/news/14782867/detail.html

[rodeodance]

74. PLUS 5 more injured.

[Rainbowreflect]

70. Police state nine dead including the shooter.

[RamboLiberal]

72. Yep - CNN's website reporting 9 dead

At least nine people are dead after a gunman opened fire inside an Omaha, Nebraska, shopping mall, police say.

http://www.cnn.com/

Watching CBS - 7 dead in mall, 2 more died at hospital.

14 injured, 2 in critical condition.

[trashcanistanista]

75. MSNBC

also reporting 9 dead.

[RamboLiberal]

73. Apparently he was firing a rifle from 3rd level down to lower levels

Witnesses told NBC affiliate WOWT-TV that the shooter pointed a gun over a third-floor railing at Westroads Mall and opened fire. He then fatally shot himself, the station reported. Police locked the mall down in the aftermath.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22116784/

[abmand]

84. i heard

reports that he stole the gun from his father

[brooklynite]

98. Our FRiends weigh in...

the first comment suggests someone else should pull out a gun and shoot back...

the third comment suggests that a Muslim was probably responsible...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1935196/posts

[rAVES]

124. Wow.. they are uber fixed on it being a black guy over there...

They hide their racism behind "the PC media only describing him as a man in Camo"

They should just all come out and fucking admit they vote retuglican because they are racist...

[NorthernSpy]

153. the shooter, Robert Hawkins, was WHITE...

The media outlets that broadcast claims that the shooter was black are now all pretending they didn't say that.


Figures.


:eyes:

[abmand]

110. cnn and ap

confirmed it was an SKS style rifle




a little background on the weapon- its a semi-auto russian rifle that was designed in 1945- its a predecessor to the AK-47 and fires the same medium powered .30 cal cartridge. the weapon has moderate accuracy is a favorite among collecters, plinkers, and hunters due to the cheap ammo and the enexpensive price of the gun ( i have a friend who hunts deer with one but says its a bit underpowered for deer hunting). For anyone curious it does NOT fall under the arbitrary definition of assault weapon since it has an internal fixed 10 round magazine. the average price for one of these rifles is $175. There are many different styles

also it says the weapon was probably stolen from his stepfather

[JoFerret]

111. The war on Christmas gets guns?

.

[SyntaxError]

114. If everyone had a jetpack, then this wouldn't have happened...

Everyone would be too busy playing their jetpacks to do something like this...


Anyways, this is really sad... Whatever the reasoning behind it, I would really hope that maybe we can all attempt to work together to help prevent this from happening again... or at least reduce the number.

[abmand]

117. first step

fix the mental health care system in this country- or create one

[SyntaxError]

118. if they had jetpacks then everyone would be happy.

but I agree with you more than I agree with me.


Which is kinda paradoxical or something.

[abmand]

120. LOL

but its true, its kind of wrong when a person gets punished and "dehumanized" for recognizing they have a problem and seeking health. My uncle attempted suicide 20 years ago because he was extrememly depressed, after the attempt failed he checked himself into a hospital where he got treatment. to cut the story short, he has been off his meds now for 10 years and has been fine, holding a job as a dry cleaning store owner. The sad part is though, he used top be an elementary school teacher and he talks about how much he misses it. they wont let him become a teacher because he has a history of mental illness, even though a psycholigist has already deemed him no danger to himself or others. He is being punished and has lost rights because of dealing with a problem he had

and we wonder why people don't want to get mental help in this country. its better off pretending it isnt there then ruining your life because you decided to do the responsible thing

btw i would love a jetpack

[SyntaxError]

123. Totally agree...

It's a shame that happened to him. If he goes in and has an exam to prove that he is fine, then I don't see why it should be an issue. People go through rough times and sometimes end up doing things they regret... And like you said, it only serves to prevent people from going in and seeking the help they need.

Of course receiving the help shouldn't be something that puts an extreme financial burden on the person or the persons family.

[abmand]

122. from what it seems liket

this kid was very intent on killing people, i doubt any law would stop him, remember a federal building was blown up by a bag of fertilizer and its not too hard to find internet directions on how to create them. back a few years ago, i used over the counter good s to create homemade fireworks which worked pretty well. i doubt it would be too hard for him to fill a bag worth of this stuff and blow himself up around a bunch of people

[joeglow3]

125. That God my sister transferred

After 3 years working at that store, she took an internal transfer to their Indianapolis store. She is still trying to find out if any of her coworkers were killed (she DID know the 61 year old who had a 7 hour surgery after being shot).

[defendandprotect]

128. Who was it who was predicing MALL-terrorist activity a while ago --- ??????

The right-wing seems to have the ability to spin-off violent nuts when needed ---

Remember the physical attacks on the Clinton White House ---
the right-wing radio encouraging the gun nuts ---
the gun nuts outside the WH firing in?
Some just hanging around and found with guns?

A plane flown into the WH??????
Believable ????

I don't think the right-wing cares about the economy improving . . .
I do think they care about keeping terraism in our faces ---
rain or shine --- and especially IN the minds of voters as we keep considering candidates ---

[flamingyouth]

130. A little over two years ago we had a mall shooting here.

A guy fired shots in Tacoma Mall and paralyzed a man but didn't kill anyone. He was just sentenced a couple of months ago.

Violent nuts, indeed...

[pinniped]

131. He's not famous, he's a fucking coward.

.

[galileo3000]

139. My heartfelt consolation to all those affected by this tragedy

With Every Breath

With every breath I take today,
I vow to be awake;

And every step I take,
I vow to take with a grateful heart--

So I may see with eyes of love
into the hearts of all I meet,

To ease their burden when I can
And touch them with a smile of peace.

- From my morning prayers. Peace.

[KamaAina]

152. Agent Mike was right! Terra at the mall!!!!

Um, hold on, that doesn't look much like Chicago...



...and this guy doesn't look at all like an al-Qaeda member...



...oh well. Better luck next time! :sarcasm: