Venezuela Ready to Vote and Defend

[Joanne98]

Source: Prensa Latina

Caracas, Dic 2 (Prensa Latina) Venezuela is ready today to vote on a referendum that will decide if it starts on the path to socialism, determined to defend the result arms in hand if necessary as was expressed by president Hugo Chavez.

The warning pointed Friday at the closing of the campaign by Chavez who exposed plans by the United States and the domestic opposition to provoke riots and violence to not recognize the foreseeable triumph of the "yes".

The context was complicated by a threat of foreign intervention exponed in a document of the United States embassy here that generated strong reaction from the head of State..

Chavez warned that next Monday oil supplies to the United States will be cut if a so-called "Plan Pliers", prepared by that country s government was enforced to provoke violence alledging fraud at the polls.

The plan was plotted in advance of the expected victory of the "yes", as most of the surveys suggested, aspirina to neutralize the vote with violent street actions waiting for a military response and


Read more: http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={78E0F87B-DDD5-412D-A661-A41B20E31E65})&language=EN

[tom_paine]

1. No matter what I think of Chavez, it was very smart of him to publicly air Bushie Plans

I still remember the creepiness of learning, after Wellstone's assassination, that he had also had an assassination attempt on his life by Bushies in Columbia in mid-2000, then had (I don't know if you could call it an assassination attempt as much as it was a Bushie intimidation move, so I don't count this with the other which was a bomb planted along his route) and had a airplane tankful of pesticide dumped on him by Bushies flying "drug inetrdiction" in Colombia.

Just an unfortunate accident, I'm sure.

My point is that I remember Eric Alterman bemoaning the fact that he didn't publicy mention that he thought Wellstone was likely to be assassinated, because public knowledge might have forestalled the attempt.

So, this a a very smart move by Chavez, and because the Bushies so badly need their murders and other crimes to be viewed by their victims' survivors and the rest of the nation as "accidents" or "tragic coincidences", they are now forced to alter their plans or otherwise camoflauge their activities to keep this "plausible deniability".

Chavez was also smart in releasing the Bushie Plans so close to the election, which gives them no time to re-tool their BlackOps in so little time.

Because of this, Bushie Murderers will have to either proceed as planned or risk losing their plausible deniability.

This would not be a problem in Amerika, where to this day 99% of Imperial Subjects uncritically believe and repeat anything their TVs tell them/us. But it would be a problem in the eyes of the rest of the world, who because they live outside the Bushie-Generated False Reality Bubble, are not so easy to fool.

Anyway, this was a very smart countermove by Chavez, even if as many believe, it is just one authoritarian outmaneuvering another.

[seafan]

2. Ambassador of Venezuela (to US) on Washington Journal CSPAN 1 now. n/t

[tom_paine]

3. self-delete

[seafan]

4. Not at all. He's the Venezuelan Amb to the US. See this speech he gave a few days ago:

Reforming Venezuela's Constitution (Speech by Ambassador of Venezuela to US, Nov 19)

[tom_paine]

5. Wups. My bad.

[Pavulon]

6. Napoleon the Pig

has covered his bases. Fake CIA memos, threats he cant back up.

Let him cut off the oil. No one else can refine it.

Money and power, old story. El presidente for life..

[devilgrrl]

13. Oh poo. Guess we'll just have to invade and turn Venezuela into a parking lot...

Halliburton will be contracted to rebuild it. Black Water hired to secure it. Corporate power for life.

Same old story.

:hi:

[cigsandcoffee]

19. What if I think Chavez is a dangerous jerk, but still don't want to invade?

Is that position OK by you?

[EFerrari]

23. Invading means risking precious American lives.

Let the Venezuelan people absorb the casualties of the corporati's greed. There are so many of them, anyway. :sarcasm:

[cigsandcoffee]

28. Who here is arguing for an invasion?

I think this is a strawman argument.

[EFerrari]

29. It is. One you mounted. n/t

[cigsandcoffee]

31. You're not being very clear.

Are you suggesting that anyone here is calling for an invasion of Venezuela?

[Dr. Strange]

48. That's the way it works here...

Don't like Chavez? You must be in favor of invading Venezuela.
Don't like Ahmadinejad? You must be in favor of invading Iran.
Don't like Sarkozy? You must be in favor of invading France.

That's why I agree with every world leader--that way I don't have to worry about invading anyone.

[mbperrin]

24. Other countries are already customers.

Nothing magical about refining oil, lots of folks do it. Anyway, the Council on Foreign Relations has this info:

http://www.cfr.org/publication/12089/venezuelas_oilbased_economy.html


* China. Venezuelan oil exports to China have gone up to 150,000 barrels per day in 2006 from the 12,300 barrels per day being delivered in 2004 and are expected to increase to 500,000 barrels per day within five years. As part of agreements signed in 2005, China is investing $2 billion in oil-related exploration and development projects in Venezuela’s Zumano region and Orinoco oil belt. China is also investing $9 billion in transportation infrastructure as well as telecom, mining, and the agricultural industry.
* Iran. Venezuela and Iran made agreements in August 2006 to build joint oil refineries in Indonesia, Syria, and Venezuela. In addition, Iran’s state-owned oil company Petropars has begun to invest in oil exploration and development in the Orinoco belt.
* India. Venezuela agreed in April 2006 to begin sending two million barrels per month to India, according to India Daily. Both countries are jointly exploring for heavy crude oil in India.

Just so's you know.

[Pavulon]

39. It is expensive to set up for molasses

type crude pumped from Venezuela. No one else is refining it in quantity.

Any future refinery is irrelevant. Any oil moved to china is by sea around the horn. The amounts listed are insignificant when compared with the exports to the us market. They are tied to us consumption..

[LanternWaste]

33. Alleged "Fake CIA memos"?

Alleged "Fake CIA memos"? On what do you base this other than your own prognostication?

[Pavulon]

Have a whole thread on it..

but the most remarkable thing would be lack of a copy...

[Pavulon]

37. dp

dp

[murray hill farm]

7. Joanne!

Do we have any idea when we will know the results of the vote today?

[EFerrari]

8. I wanted to know when the polls closed, too, but I can't figure out

how to get that information.

[maddezmom]

9. I think I heard 4pm Venezula time

[EFerrari]

11. Thank you. My expectation is that the spin will get worse

(if that's possible) then. I'm really worried about those people right now. :(

[maddezmom]

10. Plan República has detained 16 people during the polling day

Plan República has detained 16 people during the polling day

In the course of Sunday morning, the officials of Plan República, the electoral security and protection operation carried out by the army, have detained 16 people nationwide, including 14 people for voting-related offenses, reported General Jesús González González, the head of the operational strategic command of the national armed forces.

~snip~

General González denied some claims, including an alleged attack on ex Minister of Defense Raúl Baduel. "There is one case only of a voter who attacked, we have no detail, an official of Plan República in Barquisimeto," the capital city of Lara state.

[Judi Lynn]

12. The announcer on the live Venezuela on line link posted here just said they heard Sean McCormick,

from the State Department told the Chicago Tribune that there won't be any foreign election monitors on the ground in Venezuela.

That would be a profound LIE. There are hundreds, all over the country, right now. The State Department should be called on this obvious lie it is spreading about the referendum in Venezuela!

As for how the U.S. has done with election monitors, read:

International team to monitor presidential election
Observers will be part of OSCE's human rights office
From David de Sola
CNN
Monday, August 9, 2004 Posted: 9:08 AM EDT (1308 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A team of international observers will monitor the presidential election in November, according to the U.S. State Department.

The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe was invited to monitor the election by the State Department. The observers will come from the OSCE's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights.

It will be the first time such a team has been present for a U.S. presidential election.

"The U.S. is obliged to invite us, as all OSCE countries should," spokeswoman Urdur Gunnarsdottir said. "It's not legally binding, but it's a political commitment. They signed a document 10 years ago to ask OSCE to observe elections."

Thirteen Democratic members of the House of Representatives, raising the specter of possible civil rights violations that they said took place in Florida and elsewhere in the 2000 election, wrote to U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan in July, asking him to send observers.

After Annan rejected their request, saying the administration must make the application, the Democrats asked Secretary of State Colin Powell to do so.

The issue was hotly debated in the House, and Republicans got an amendment to a foreign aid bill that barred federal funds from being used for the United Nations to monitor U.S. elections, The Associated Press reported.
(snip/...)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/08/international.observers/index.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Republicans don't want election monitors! No surprise here, right?

[rjones2818]

14. The State Department lying about Venezuela?

Heaven forbid!
:sarcasm:

Another nail in the coffin of those who believe the State Department is a Department of Peace!

[EFerrari]

17. Here:

When asked Friday, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack wasn't prepared to say that the U.S. had confidence in the legitimacy of Sunday's vote. "There won't be observers on the ground, so the outside world won't really have much insight into the procedures that are implemented," he said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-chavez_avila_nudec02,1,743156.story?page=2

Ain't it a beautiful thing? They don't even care if we know they are lying their @sses off.

[Judi Lynn]

25. God, that's bald-faced lying, isn't it? They must not think Americans will ever know the difference.

They DON'T care! Who's going to do anything about any crime of any kind they commit against the people of the world, at any time? They are saying they can do anything, to anyone, at any time, and they will get by with it.

Yeah, no outside observers, they're such a secretive, sneaky bunch. Right! Not like our noble State Department spokesman, Sean McCormack, and his heavenly boss!

[EFerrari]

26. I emailed the reporter. Unlike the New York Lies, I believe

the Tribune reporter was just played. He had a direct quote, didn't he?

I'm so glad I checked with the NAACP and the National Lawyers Guild early on Friday or I would have missed this, entirely.

[EFerrari]

16. You're a good mentor, Judi Lynn, because I caught that, too, this morning.

:toast: Thanks!

[Clanfear]

30. I have not heard of an official lead group for the monitors

It appears they just have individuals from around the world serving is monitors, but I have yet to hear of any specified group overseeing the process, or who will be making official conclusions as to the credibility of the election. Maybe you have?

[EFerrari]

35. NAACP and National Lawyers Guild from the US.

I don't know about other countries. I called and checked on Friday when the NYTs implied that there would be none.

They were lying or misled.

[Stevepol]

41. In Chavez's election, the vote was counted with electronic voting machines BUT

there was a 50-55% hand count audit of paper as a way of verifying the results.

Contrast that with the US where 80-85% of the vote is counted in total secrecy by private companies with, for the most part, no audit at all, and if you so much as raise your voice about it, you're a "conspiracy theorist."

The contrast could hardly be clearer.

If Venezuela wants to support Chavez's proposals, given that Venezuela is in fact a democracy, that's none of our business. If they decide to change their minds in a few years, they're a democracy and they can do so.

We'd do well to look to get our own house in order and try to restore democracy here before becoming hysterical about the political referenda in a democratic country.

[David__77]

15. Today will be a profound victory for democracy and progress.

The people of Venezuela will set an example for the whole world with their progressive choice to reform their constitution and broaden the people's rights. Human rights don't JUST mean the right to speak but also the right to employment, rest, recreation, housing, health care, education, sustenance in old age and infirmity, and also the RIGHT TO RULE the community and the work place. The Venezuelan people are blazing a new and truly wonderful path.

[EFerrari]

18. I hope they get to quietly enjoy their victory. n/t

[David__77]

21. I think it will be quiet. Maybe wishful thinking.

The people will celebrate. I wouldn't be surprised if some fascists or "Red Flag" terrorists sniped them though. I also wouldn't be surprised if they sniped the opposition themselves to set up a coup or intervention pretext. I hope there are no "American medical students" in Venezuela.

[EFerrari]

22. I so hope you are right! But, the plan seems to be to claim fraud

and incite violence. They've followed the alleged plan pretty closely so far. :shrug:

[Clanfear]

27. Will your opinion be the same of No wins?

Will it still be an example of progressive choice or will it be an example of CIA influence?

[maddezmom]

20. Director Yépez: Referendum results will be disclosed early night

Director Yépez: Referendum results will be disclosed early night




The outcome of the referendum on the changes to the Constitution will be made known "soon after this evening," said National Electoral Council (CNE) director Germán Yépez.

"Once all the polling stations are closed, a process will be opened, the results of which can be made known soon. We have only two choices and not multiple political parties and candidates as in other elections. Soon after this evening, we will tell the country with much responsibility about the winning choice," Yépez told Unión Radio.

Polling stations are scheduled to close at 4:00 p.m., but will keep operating as long as there are voters standing in the line. Further, Yépez ensured all citizens' rights and repeated that there is no way to violate vote secrecy as part of the automation process.

more:http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/12/02/en_refco_art_director-yepez:-ref_02A1237519.shtml

[maddezmom]

32. Polls about to close in Venezuelan referendum

Polls about to close in Venezuelan referendum
By Marc Burleigh AFP - 6 minutes agoCARACAS (AFP) - A bid by President Hugo Chavez to rule for life and turn Venezuela into a socialist economy was put to the polls Sunday in a referendum seen as too close to call after weeks of protests.

As ballot stations were about to close at 4:00 pm (2000 GMT), voters and officials waited anxiously for exit polls and the first official results.

The 53-year-old leftwing president, who was asking the country to give him the right to seek re-election indefinitely, exuded confidence when he cast his own ballot in a poor Caracas suburb.

"This is a win for Venezuelan democracy, a win for the construction of the Venezuelan nation," he said, holding his baby grandson.

He said he would "accept the result" of the referendum and called on the opposition to do the same.

more:http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20071202/twl-venezuela-referendum-4bdc673.html

[Clanfear]

34. Aljazeera: Chavistas concerned about Chavez powergrab

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfSjC845afg

"There are a lot of people, even those who have traditionally supported president Chavez, who fear he may be going too fast too far."

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/28D37DDC-E5D7-4F7D-987D-06CB7D41DF5C.htm

I guess Aljazeera has finally swallowed the CIA line????

[EFerrari]

36. In this disinfo tsunami, they'd be stupid not to go along to a degree. n/t

[Clanfear]

38. Go along with what?

Even the poor understand that the words seem to be bigger than can be delivered. People are angerd by the food shortages. Having that much power under one person should be troubling to any sane person. Thank goodness some of his supporters see that.

[EFerrari]

40. They'd be stupid not to report the story that is being astro turfed.

That's just a good business practice.

And, the food shortages are occurring because the production chain is still in the hands of the oligarchy. It is a definite weakness that the government has to work out.

And, the period after this referendum passes will be very dangerous for the people. Not because of the Chavez government but because our own government will be using our money to topple him.

[cigsandcoffee]

42. Al-Jazeera gets paid more to report lies about Chavez?

How on Earth will Al-Jazeera make more money for reporting "untruths" about Chavez? This I've got to hear.

[EFerrari]

43. No, I didn't say that. That outlet would be stupid not to report a story

that everyone else is going with. That's just common sense.

[cigsandcoffee]

44. Maybe they and "everyone else" are going with it because it's true.

That's worth a thought, IMO, since everyone from Fox News to the BBC to Al-Jazeera is reporting it.

They can't all be part of the CIA's evil anti-Chavez propaganda.

[EFerrari]

45. Just like they went with Bush winning Ohio or with WMD. Sure! n/t

[cigsandcoffee]

46. Al-Jazeera went with WMDs and Ohio?

Sorry, but you must be thinking of another network.

[EFerrari]

47. "Maybe they and "everyone else" are going with it because it's true."