Border Patrol goes zero tolerance in Laredo...

[shrdlu]

Source: Houston Chronicle

L AREDO — After pleading guilty to entering the country illegally, the Mexican immigrant from Veracruz told a federal judge here last week he came to the U.S. to earn money to pay for his mother's funeral.

''It doesn't matter if you're trying to pay off funeral expenses, or take care of a sick family member," explained U.S. Magistrate Diana Saldaña, referring to the plight of another immigrant. ''When you cross the Rio Grande, you're going to be spending time in prison if the Border Patrol finds you — that's the bottom line."

The frank courtroom exchange has become a daily occurrence since Oct. 30, when the Border Patrol launched Operation Streamline-Laredo, a zero-tolerance campaign that prosecutes, jails and deports nearly every adult illegal immigrant that border agents catch.



Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5315873.html

---

About time someone showed some spine. This should be the policy everywhere. Now if authorities would just whack employers with big, big business-busting fines.

Magistrate Saldana is a fine American.

[Didereaux]

1. I agree with you...and according to all sources so do 70% of all voters

[schrodinger_I]

2. Me too n/t

[depakid]

3. Yep- prison time, what a great idea!

:sarcasm:

Figures it's from Texas- where they always have such bright ideas, particularly when they involve the prison system- or executing people.

[EFerrari]

8. Undocumented workers are at terrible risk for mistreatment

in jail because no one is there to look out for them. Sometimes their families don't know where they are for months.

[michreject]

47. If they didn't break the law

and end up in jail, then just maybe their families would know where they're at.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

51. sometimes, the law is an ass.

[michreject]

52. I agree

but you should expect to be punished if you break it.

[Zhade]

58. Such a heart.

How do you fucking sleep at night?

[michreject]

60. What does my sleep patterns

have to do with someone else breaking the law and going to jail?:shrug:

[snappyturtle]

36. A little information on the Magistrate from the University of Texas

website:

"Saldana was born and raised in Carrizo Springs, Texas. She is the third oldest of six children born to Blanca Hernandez Rodriguez. Saldana migrated alongside her family on a seasonal basis to Minnesota and North Dakota where she worked in the sugar beet, soybean, and potato fields. She began working in the fields at the age of 10 and did so every summer until after her second year in law school.

During law school, Saldana served as a law clerk for Migrant Legal Services based out of Fargo, North Dakota. She was the first former migrant worker to serve as a law clerk for the agency. While a law student at UT, Saldana was president of the Chicano/Hispanic Law Students Association."

I think it's obvious that this magistrate has walked the walk and maybe we shouldn't be so quick to condemn.

Maybe you ought to give some thought to.."....they always have such bright ideas...". Frankly, I take personal offense to your all inclusive statement. A lot of good citizens of Texas have had about as much control on what happens in Texas statewide as we, as U.S. citizens, have had over our federal government. This is of course, imho.

[Hulk]

4. Read Devil's Highway.......this is insane.

I'm not sure if any of these peasants come strolling across the border on their own for nothing. Maybe that's the ones that get caught?

I DO know that many of them pay coyotes somewhere around $3K that they beg, borrow or save up to make the crossing. Once here...if they are lucky enough, they aren't about to return back home. Go figure....it costs them another $3K to get across again. How insane is this?

Then we get them, and this douche bag decides to toss them in prison...like that is going to deter them? Bring the f*ckin' troops home from this insane war of bush's, and let them guard the damn border. At least they won't be getting killed while doing a service to their country.

As for these illegal immigrants, just bus them home. What the hell does a Greyhound cost? Let halliburton in on it. This whole thing is insane. Too much emotion, not enough thought. It isn't as simple as the simple minded would like it to be.

[silverojo]

5. When you think about it

If I broke into somebody's house (as this guy's breaking in to our country) to pay for medical bills or a funeral, I'd wind up behind bars, as well.

That's how American citizens are treated, so why does anybody think it should be any different for non-citizens?

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[depakid]

10. No- in all likelyhood, he's building or taking care of someone's house

Americans have no problem with the cheap services undocumented workers provide, but they sure are quick to get on the "moralistic" high horses when immigration issues in general come up.

And btw: we'll NEVER -let me repeat NEVER "secure the border." That's an absurd notion- just as prison time is.

Frankly, talk like this makes be deeply ashamed to be an American.

[mrfixit]

26. I am not one of "those Americans."

I believe that you are wrong. Other countries' borders are secure the whole world over. I don't think you ever get to 100%, ANYWHERE, however, but there are acceptable maximimums...It's actually quite simple: Just make it impossible for them to get jobs in the USA and the problem will be, for the most part, solved.

Hey - keep your head up. Since 2000, many of us are ashamed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. It shames me too

:cry:

[Nihil]

13. Maybe need to take the blinkers off?

> Many are resorting to identity theft, theft of Social Security numbers
> in order to work - "stealing," as it were.

Who is selling the illegal immigrant the stolen SSNs?
Is it another illegal immigrant or is it someone acting on behalf of the
employers?

Better still: Who is *obtaining* the SSNs in the first place?

My money would go on a fully "legal" US citizen who supplements his (or her)
"legal" wage by selling off US civil service data. It wouldn't be an
illegal immigrant as they would not have access to the data in the first
place. (Or are they all talented hackers as well as lawn-trimmers?)

Who's committing the bigger crime - the thief, the fence or the buyer?

> They depress local wages, ...

The depressing of local wages is purely down to the bastards who exploit
workers and your response ("Charge and fine companies that employ illegal
labour HEAVILY") is spot on. Unfortunately, there are usually "connections"
that ensure that the employer is rarely (if ever) prosecuted so that side
of the argument is conveniently glossed over.


Must admit though that this bit made me laugh:

> There is NO WAY to measure how many of these illegal immigrants are
> criminals, murderers, gang members or paedophiles.

So ... the number that there is "NO WAY" to measure might just as easily
be zero as any other that you might wish to pull out of your hat?

Are you seriously trying to imply that the majority of "criminals,
murderers, gang members or paedophiles" are illegal immigrants? Really?

If so, you are seriously deluded. I'll leave you to your daydreams.

If not, you are so blinkered by your hatred that you appear to have
forgotten that the MAJORITY of those "criminals, murderers, gang members
or paedophiles" are All-American citizens who have *nothing* to do with
illegal immigration. They are legal citizens of the US of A who choose
to be "criminals, etc.". I suppose that's somehow more acceptable ...?

:shrug:

[mrfixit]

25. nah - leave 'em on, for all I care.

"Who is selling the illegal immigrant the stolen SSNs?"

Other illegal immigrants, in many cases. In other cases, I am sure it is employer/slavemasters.
http://www.identitytheftdaily.com/news/arrests/drug-bust-breaks-identity-theft-ring-20070515-144-45.html

Now, as to who contracts these people to obtain the numbers, I would have to say it's both the immigrants themselves as well as the employers of illegal labour. If enforcement agencies go after these asshole-slavemasters, a lot of dominoes could start to fall.

"Who's committing the bigger crime - the thief, the fence or the buyer?"

Who gives a shit whose crime is bigger? They are ALL guilty. Bust them ALL.

"Unfortunately, there are usually "connections"
that ensure that the employer is rarely (if ever) prosecuted so that side
of the argument is conveniently glossed over."

I haven't glossed over anything. I agree 100% They should be fined. Repressively and regressively. Those who make these "connections" are every bit as guilty as the slavemasters who hire illegals.

"So ... the number that there is "NO WAY" to measure might just as easily
be zero as any other that you might wish to pull out of your hat?

No. It's quite obvious that EVERY illegal immigrant is a criminal, by legal definition. Just as obviously, unless you want to stand at the Rio Grande with a "clicker," there is no way to accurately measure how many of them are in the USA. Please do not blame me for demonstrating the painfully obvious.

"Are you seriously trying to imply that the majority of "criminals,
murderers, gang members or paedophiles" are illegal immigrants? Really?"

Obviously not. No such implication was made, or intended. The truth is simply that many illegal immigrants CANNOT get into the USA legally simply because of criminal records. Since many illegal immigrants have been arrested and convicted in the USA for various petty criminal acts, gang activity and violent crimes (including murder and paedophilia), logically it is safe to make this demonstrable assumption.

I have no "hatred" for them, or ANYONE. I do not find violent crime acceptable, no matter who commits it.

I am happy I gave you a laugh, however. Some days, all you get is one.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. I do not find violent crime acceptable either

I also realize that crossing the border without papers is not a violent crime. :eyes:

[judaspriestess]

28. many of them are not buying someones stolen SS#

they are buying INVENTED numbers which chances are someone's elses SS # also. They go in and buy a fake social security card that looks real with their name on it and the invented number. It will come up on a credit check that the number "does not exist" as one example.

But most of the immigrants have already caught on to the TAX ID number issued by the IRS instead. All they do is go to the local IRS office apply for a TAX ID or "ITIN" number as its known with the
W-7 form and get work with employers that way. With their name and their own GOVERNMENT issued Tax ID numbers in lieu of a Social Security number.


on edit: Stories regarding ITIN numbers


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20070413/ai_n19018650

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Hey don't let facts get in the way

You are ruining someone's delusion. :)

[CanSocDem]

50. Back in the 60's....

Myself and a couple of Australians went to the local SSI office and applied for a number. We had one before we left...

I remember the kindly older woman telling me '...they were always happy to have Canadians working here..'(Los Angeles).

As a truck driver hauling between the USA and Canada I was subjected to a lot of intrusive searches and one day, despite my usual best efforts, the US Border guard finally found my SS card and insisted I had no right to have it, so he kept it...

Truth is, I haven't really missed it.

.

[Chulanowa]

35. Some of them, yes.

And many non-immigrants do the same thing.

What the hell is your point again?

[gratuitous]

15. But what if . . .

Now, why are these folks coming here in the first place? Could it be because the economic policies pursued by our country? Might that have something to do with why so many folks in Central America can't provide for their own families? So if your home is filled with stuff you've bought because of the money stole from Central American peasants through the collusion and corruption of our government and theirs, and one of them comes by and appropriates some of your ill-gotten booty, you're entitled to lock him up.

But why aren't you in jail in the first place for robbing our neighbors to the south?

This issue is just a tad more complicated than your highly truncated example would like it to be.

[treestar]

24. The house breaking metaphor does not work

Unless you claim the immigrants broke into your house, did a bunch of housekeeping chores, and then left.

The "house" is enormous and needs people to do the housekeeping and plumbing and other upkeep. You're proposing allowing the house to deteriorate so you can stay in one room alone.

[superkia]

38. So if my son wants to get a job in a certain company that has...

standards and procedures setup in order for applicants to get an interview and my son doesn't want to wait in the line behind the people that have been there for a while, I should just tell him to hop the fence and break into the office building so he can get an interview before the rest of the people that are doing what they are supposed to do? I mean hes only trying to find work and needs to support his family, so by what many are saying here, its every person for themselves and if you need to break the law to get yourself ahead of the ones abiding by the rules, fuck em, its their fault they are waiting in line and doing the right thing. Eventually everyone will just run for the fence and hop over and the companies system will fail just like our system has. How can you run a business when people are scrambling about the grounds and breaking into your business, it will cost you money for more security and who knows what else.

The good thing is, eventually we will no longer be The United States of America and our country as it once existed, will be gone, we will be the North American Union and we wont have to have these discussions anymore.


Our government needs to give everyone amnesty and at a minimum, get some tax dollars out of them and require them to learn English but I doubt that will happen. Our government wants us all to dislike each other, its easier to keep separate groups down than it would be if everyone was united.

[treestar]

48. Somebody else getting a job doesn't prejudice you from getting one

Jobs are not a non-renewable resource, like oil; this treats them as if they were each just a pile of money in the earth you go and collect from.

If you employ one person, that stimulates other jobs, due to the spending both within the business and the personal spending.

As far as getting ahead in line, you wouldn't object if your son knew somebody at the employer's place of business or if he was related to someone there. That doesn't apply here at all. The undocumented aliens have fewer ties than people already here; the people get advantages in job hunting all the time due to their ties and connections.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Wow that exact same argument is

all over the right wing anti-immigration sites. It's just as silly here as it is on those other sites.

[noamnety]

7. Our own greed and fear

has pretty much destroyed our humanity.

[Vinca]

11. It's time to lock up a few business owners as well.

That's the root of the problem. If the jobs dry up, so will the illegal immigration problem.

[boricua79]

12. What's magistrate Saldana's background?

Mexican? yes?

You tell him Magistrate Saldana...and ignore any illegal immigrants in your own family that might have crossed the border.

But you tell that good for nothing immigrant that it doesn't matter that he was trying to pay funeral expenses!

And while we're at it, let's start renaming these weirdly named towns...I mean, it's the freaking U.S. of A! What's with El Paso, Laredo, Sacramento, Los Angeles, etc...how did they end up with Spanish names!

How dare these immigrants inhabit vast amounts of the American West for centuries...and how dare they want to come over here to our weirdly Spanish-named towns and cities! The nerve!

Hey, if anyone is looking for me, I'll be dressing up for my yearly "let's remember the friendly Pilgrim / Indians Thanksgiving" reunion. Now where did I put my sir Jeffrey Amherst tribute blanket...:sarcasm:

[BuddhaGirl]

20. great point!

:applause:

[bitchkitty]

59. LMAO - smallpox humor at 3:40 a.m.!

Thanks, I needed that after reading the racist, xenophobic diatribe in other parts of this thread.

[Javaman]

14. And what happens when the prisons fill up with illegals?

who pays for them? Us.

The mission is to dry up opportunities here for them to work. Give mind numbing fines to the employers, then you will see the jobs dry up for illegals, until then, I hope you enjoy watching your taxes go up as we have to pay for these illegals incarceration.

[Tempest]

17. And that's why the prison system is the fastest growth market in the U.S.

California is getting crushed by the cost of its prison system, and the largest growing population is illegals.

The states are paying for something the federal government is responsible for. At leaset a few states are saying enough is enough and is refusing to take illegals.

[treestar]

22. And you'll see some US citizens' jobs dry up as well

You're talking about deliberate contraction of the economy.

The answer is a sane immigration law, not to cut away at the economy.

If those 12 million people were gone, more than 12 million jobs would go with them.

The economy is not as one dimensional as that.

[One_Life_To_Give]

27. Not to mention prisons full of Citizens who couldn't buy a job.

I wonder how many people would never have ended up in prison had it not been for a distorted labor market. Where hiring illegals is somehow preferable to hiring those who were born here.

[Der Blaue Engel]

16. This is appalling

As is the attitude of some DUers.

:wtf:

When did bigotry and hate become so acceptable even among the liberal community that we have people thinking this is about "justice"?

Some days I don't want click on a single thread for fear of pieces of my soul being ripped out.

:cry:

[superconnected]

33. It's not really biggotry

Some of us found out first hand that a lot of the illegals are the lowest of the mexican population that will steal to stay alive no matter how legal you make them.

I'll settle for social programs helping these mainly massively uneducated people and mandatory prison terms for their corresponding massively high thievery rates. If they don't break the law, no problem, but if they steal a car, car stereo or anything else, and they have mandatory prison, then I have no problem letting these poor impoverished derelicts in.

(Obviously I live in a neighborhood full of them because I'm jaded on the HIGH CRIME potential side of the illegals coming over that I WITNESS FIRST HAND.)

Anyone who doesn't break the law, no problem. I'm only asking the THIEVES be locked up. Then I won't give a rats ass who comes over the border anymore.

PS. There's no feeling like when your car has been stolen.

[Der Blaue Engel]

34. People who commit crimes should be dealt with in the same manner

regardless of immigration status, but imprisoning people simply for trying to find work in the "land of opportunity" seems just plain blackhearted, and my comment was directed at those who were cheering that.

[superconnected]

53. Yes, I don't care what color/race they are.

illegal immigrants (big concentration in my neighborhood) bring it with them though. But I agree, I want all races accountable.

[judaspriestess]

37. Thievery is just that, it doesn't matter what race or nationality they are

they are still humans and capable of being a criminal like any other person. Is that a surprise? just asking.......

[SyntaxError]

42. But you're mixing the issues then, no?

Criminals are criminals no matter what their background happens to be.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. Immigrating into the US without permision is a civil offense

just like running a stop sign or speeding. Are speeders criminals?

[SyntaxError]

61. Wasn't the point I was making...

You would have to read the comment I was respoding to get the context.

[EFerrari]

54. I'm sorry if that happened to you but you are blaming an entire

people for whoever did that. Immigrants do not have a high crime rate and most of them are not "derelicts", they are working people.

[entanglement]

40. Expect anti-immigrant hysteria to go up a few notches as the economy worsens

and people look for scapegoats.

[SyntaxError]

41. Ahem... I don't like this idea, but I have to disagree with you on something...

I don't see why you assume the motivation of peoples beliefs on this is bigotry. While it's unfortunate that some bigots do in fact base beliefs on their small minded idea. I don't think that's the case with most of the posters on DU... I think most the people who believe this is a good idea(here on DU) are simply guilty of not thinking through the affects it would have. However, being concerned about the illegal immigration does not automatically make one a bigot.

[Der Blaue Engel]

45. Sometimes people simply aren't aware that they are responding from bigoted misconceptions

I don't doubt that some mean well, while there are certainly others who do not and are quite open in their xenophobia. But being concerned about illegal immigration is not the same as scapegoating them, assuming they are all shiftless thieves and gangbangers and that every problem in the community is the result of undocumented workers.

These are issues of racism and classism entrenched in our country since before its inception, and I don't believe most Americans have any conception of what life is like for someone who is willing to risk that life in order to come to a place where they will make pennies for long hours of physical labor and be afraid to seek medical care or other help when it's urgently needed for fear of La Migra.

It's easier to fold your arms and say, "They're breaking the law. They're criminals. They should be punished," than it is to see the human beings whose lives hang in the balance. It's something we all should be very grateful for this Thanksgiving: that there are people willing to do the work that puts our Thanksgiving feasts on our tables. We should all do something for those in our community if we have the opportunity.

[NorthernSpy]

18. jailing the scofflaw employers would be way more cost effective...

There are fewer of them to deal with; they're softer and more risk-averse; and they're much more deserving of punishment.

[SyntaxError]

43. Yeah, but that actually makes sense and might actually help...

We can't be having that, now can we?


I don't think this issue will ever be solved though since the two extremes both want the same thing. Of course they have different motives, but still.

[PufPuf23]

19. Prosecute the employers - seal the borders - rational work programs and immigration policy

The key to stopping illegal immigration is to remove the incentives for employers in the USA to hire illegals.
Employers hire illegals because they work cheaper and do not need to be treated as well.
There are ripple effects throughout our economy and this is just another form of upward wealth transfer within our economy.
The way to remove incentives for hiring illegals is more enforcement and far far stiffer penalties for employers of illegals.
IMO green card programs are part of the solution.
Rational immigration policy does not mean building more walls nor prisons.

[Trillo]

21. I just thought I'd try twisting the magistrate's statement a bit.

"It doesn't matter if you're trying to shelter banking funds, or massage the earnings of a poorly structured merger deal," explained U.S. Magistrate Wannabe, referring to the losses of another subsidiary corporation. "When your money crosses the Rio Grande, you're going to be spending time in prison if the IRS finds you — that's the bottom line."

[treestar]

23. That would take about 1/5 of the population working for ICE

And triple your taxes.

All this because you don't like foreigners? Let them in legally by having a rational law, and everyone's standard of living will go up. If they are legal, they can demand equal wages and working conditions. There would therefore be fewer jobs for them, but just refusing to let them in when someone wants to hire them contracts the economy and results in fewer jobs for us.

[SyntaxError]

44. What is your idea of rational laws when it comes to this issue?

There would obviously be limits on that since even if the laws were very liberal, things would still have to be processed. What happens to those who want in, but don't get in? Any ideas?

Also you said: There would therefore be fewer jobs for them, but just refusing to let them in when someone wants to hire them contracts the economy and results in fewer jobs for us.

Well, in an ideal world, there wouldn't be any benefit to hiring foreign workers. If there is, then that ultimately leads to the exploitation of those workers. So assuming we solve that issue by allowing other workers an easier, legal router to work here, how would that contract the economy? Taking into account that they would have to pay out the same no matter where the worker came from.

[KaptBunnyPants]

39. Because the hardline approach worked so well with drugs...

Some people never get tired of building more prisons. We can't stop illegal immigration this way, but we can waste a lot of money and cause a great deal of harm to non-violent people. They will come as long as they get employed here. That is the only weak point in the chain, the well off people who benefit from the immigrant underclass who actually can be intimidated by the legal system. But the people want blood, and that is what they shall get. 95+ out of a hundred will make it across, find work, and others will look at the odds and follow. The unlucky few who get caught will be turned into monsters in our dehumanization factories, then turned loose on the populace. Good plan.

[michreject]

46. "to pay for his mother's funeral."

Yeah! Right! I guess that was as good as aany.

Anyone else not believe this?

[THUNDER HANDS]

49. scapegoats R us

the problem in this county isn't people coming here from other countries illegally taking our jobs, it's businesses taking the jobs to other countries legally.

[judaspriestess]

55. Yup, Excellent point

and one that gets lost in the shuffle unfortunately

[Taverner]

57. Magistrate Saldana is a fucked up American

Once again a privileged American has no conception of reality.

[Jade Fox]

62. If the employers were jailed, we wouldn't need.....

to focus on border security, which doesn't work well in the long run. Making it harder to get in the country only increases the probability that illegal immigrants will stay permanently once they make it in. And if they can't get work THEY WON'T COME AT ALL--this simple fact gets ignored a lot.