Engineer group not amused by online spoof of levee review

[funkybutt]

Source: Times Picayune, New Orleans

A long-simmering dispute about whether a leading engineering organization whitewashed the role of the Army Corps of Engineers in the failure of the levee system during Hurricane Katrina has broken into the open with a bitter YouTube spoof and a demand for an ethics investigation of the organization's staff.

In June, the American Society of Civil Engineers released the results of a peer review of the Defense Department-sponsored Interagency Performance Evaluation Task Force, or IPET. But critics say the review, and particularly the news release accompanying it, minimized the role of the levee failure in the flooding of the city.

-snip-

ASCE officials took the unusual step on Tuesday of e-mailing a letter to its Louisiana members that outlined its response to the criticisms of Levees.org in its online video and others.

-snip-

"The reason we're taking it down, quite simply, is we just don't have the personnel or resources to wage a legal battle with the ASCE," Rosenthal said, "even though we stand by every word of the public announcement and contend it's completely accurate."

Read more: http://blog.nola.com/times-picayune/2007/11/engineer_group_not_amused_by_o.html#video

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Check out this video made by a 17 year old. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ezG_ahQOw

[LeftCoast]

1. Holy crap! You've gotta see that video.

That was awesome!

[Renew Deal]

6. Did you notice that no ads loaded during that video?

I bet that's something You Tube is doing intentionally. Anyway, it's well done. Especially considering it was done by kids.

[ixion]

2. okay... this is pretty simple:

Fact 1) The Army Corps of Engineers has been charged with maintaining the levees.

Fact 2) Using the Netherlands as a model -- as a benchmark -- is it easy to concur that the levees of N.O. were substandard.

Fact 3) Because they were substandard, they broke when stressed. This could have been avoided.

Ergo: the ASCE is where the buck stops.

[BB1]

5. Here in the Netherlands were shocked

over the incompetence to maintain a couple of levees for a small number of years. I was born under sea-level, in a polder that's made in the late 1600's. Never got wet feet.

The real reason for the levees to break is, of course, not the ferocity of the storm, but the lack of maintaining the damn levees in the first place. Where did the money go?

We not only stuff our dikes and levees with fingers of 6-year-olds, but also with all the money we can find to make sure we don't drown or wash away (or both).

So now what? Blame the Dutch for making public safety a priority? (and hail Bush and/or FEMA for pointing it out?)

[funkybutt]

7. Thanks for Posting!

It's great to hear someone from the Netherlands chime in. Hats off to the Netherlands for making flood protection a MAJOR priority.

:hi:

[redqueen]

11. We stuff all our money into the pockets of cronies.

They get paid to pretend like they're doing their jobs... and pay someone else to lie about it if they get caught, like they did here.

Looks like most Americans insist that we learn the dangers of cronyism first hand. Oh well... experience keeps a dear school, but it's the only place fools will learn.

[BB1]

17. Tell your friends and teach your kids NOT

to give money to political parties, and you'll be fine.

There's no one I know who does that. We call it 'throwing money away'. Politicians get paid by the government, right? What do they need more money for?


"experience keeps a dear school, but it's the only place fools will learn" - nice one. That's another one gone to ruins - the schoolsystem. Looks like the budget collapsed, much like the levees...

[redqueen]

18. Can't take credit... that's one o' Ben Franklin's gems.

"Experience keeps a dear school but fools will learn in no other."

Growing up, my dad would drill that into our heads. He has good taste in quotes. :P

[Ian David]

3. Wow. That's very well done. If I wasn't completely broke, I'd contribute to www.Levees.org right now

http://www.votervoice.net/Core.aspx?AID=662&APP=Registration&

[funkybutt]

8. I felt compelled to donate after viewing that video

Levees.org operates on donations and volunteer labor. I'm not affiliated with them and have never donated before. I see their yard signs all over the city. They are a great organization and I continue to be impressed with their work.

20 bucks is all I could spare, but every little bit counts.

[madrchsod]

4. not all is lost....

the next generation is`t going to go down without a fight...

[alfredo]

9. Great Video K&R

[redqueen]

10. Wow... that video is great.

And lookit... Harry Shearer is on board. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Wo0mzehkE

[hootinholler]

12. kick for after work. n/t

[tularetom]

13. As an engineer I can tell you

peer review is not something that is embraced by most members of the profession. And politics plays a big role in the procuring of engineering contracts for government works. The members of the ASCE peer review body most likely shied away from placing blame for the levee failure on the Corps of Engineers so that their firms would not be blackballed by the corps when lucrative engineering contracts were awarded. You may or may not be aware that engineeering contracts are not competitively bid. They are supposed to be awarded on merit and ability to complete the design work. Often unfortunately they are awarded purely on the basis of political contacts, campaign contributions, and inside information.

Keeep that in mind as you drive across that aging bridge on your nearby interstate.

[Turbineguy]

14. Ding ding ding!

And we have a winner!

[entanglement]

19. That is quite disturbing and very unlike what one expects of a professional body

such as the ASCE. The ASME, for instance, is a pretty large organization with all of the usual politicking, but I couldn't imagine anything resembling such egregious conduct from them.

[hedgehog]

20. The professional societies are in an odd position. They are

expected to provide regulations, but they are self financed. (It costs money to research and decide how thick the walls of a pressure vessel should be.)Oftentimes, government regulations will refer to regs issued by private groups, actually giving them the strength of law. I think historically this started when the American Society of Mechanical Engineers issued design and operating specifications to keep steam boilers from exploding. There have been some odd problems over the years. I think the ASME was sued about 20 years back because someone claimed that a regulation it issued unfairly favored a competitor's design. Industry groups trade information so that accidents can be prevented, bu they have to be careful to avoid anti-trust violations. Back around 1978 or so the group that issued the electrical code was sideswiped when it tried to issue a complete update of the code. After engineers had worked out every detail, a bunch of hospital administrators (non-engineers)used their votes to kill any updates because they wanted to keep costs down! They weren't against the code per se; they against all regulations!

[ThomCat]

15. Very nice job for a group of kids.

:)

It's shame that they're being bullied because grown-ups are more concerned about their "professional reputations" than the truth.

[KamaAina]

16. Could somebody archive that, please?

kind of like White Rose does with progressive talk?

I'd sure hate to see the "Corpse" of Engineers get away with bullying these talented young New Orleanians. Speaking of which, I'll bet they'd be the toast of Mardi Gras; maybe someone could get them into one of the truck parades?

[funkybutt]

21. Kick for the late-nighters....on MERIT

;)

[Festivito]

22. When American corruption takes engineers, we're sunk.

I gather we're sunk.

Good for those kids who made this video.