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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 03:14 PM
Original message
Fifty States face voting machine lawsuits (and subpoenas today)
Edited on Tue Nov-13-07 03:41 PM by KurtNYC
Source: Clarksville (TN) Online 11/13/07 by Christine Anne Piesyk

Business as usual will not be the norm over the next 48 hours as Secretaries of State in all fifty states will each receive subpoenas in the National Clean Election lawsuit, according to an announcement made Monday night by activist Bernie Ellis at the Belcourt Theatre in Nashville. There is still time, Ellis said, to require a paper trail for the 2008 election.

The announcement was made in a panel discussion following the sold out Nashville premiere of the David Earnhardt film, Uncounted , which ended with a standing ovation for its writer/director. The documentary film addressed the issue of voting machine error/failure, the need for a paper trail of votes, the political and business ties between government officials and manufacturers of these DRE (Direct Recording Electronic) voting machines, and the ease of tampering with such machine and “flipping” votes that are electronically counted.

...
“The lawsuit aims to establish that all computer systems (or other systems) which hide the ballots from the people for even a short period of time before the count is accomplished and the results are posted – are unconstitutional…

“The lawsuit argues persuasively … that the use of computer and machine election systems violate each citizen’s right to vote, as defined at least twice by the Supreme Court of the United States. ”




Read more: http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/2007/11/13/fifty-states-face-voting-machine-lawsuits-uncounted-documents-dre-issues/



"In full view of the public"! -- it's about time!

edit: faces --> face (in headline)
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. hooray
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. FINALLY!
all computer systems (or other systems) which hide the ballots from the people for even a short period of time before the count is accomplished and the results are posted – are unconstitutional…

There is still time, Ellis said, to require a paper trail for the 2008 election.


Here's hoping.

:dem:
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Interesting. Maine doesn't have electronic voting
Wonder why it would be included?
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Presumably to close of the chance of future changes...
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. It would require legislation
Electronic voting machines are illegal.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Really? Not even optical scan tabulators?
That would be odd then.

-Hoot
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Ahh, some towns use those
But everyone in Maine votes with paper and pencil. There's always a paper trail and recount ability. And the ballots are never out of the view of the public once the ballot box is opened.

But, yes, some of the larger municipalities do use optical scanners for counting.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. I soo hope this 7 years late effort is not purely a TOKEN effort.
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Blaze Diem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. If the voting system is corrected this time around, there will be
a certain change in the White House & in Congress after 11-08.
The country is fed up and correcting the voting system flaws, is the most crucial element in replacing those who promote Bush policies.
It is the ONLY way we will someday stop the demise of the USA.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. agreed but we need to overcome corporate media also
They beat the drum for Clinton's impeachment and now do their best to support B*sh. To many, the mainstream media is the scoreboard -- more people must be convinced that that scoreboard is lying.

A free press and verifiable voting are key to getting our country back.
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Blaze Diem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. Agreed. Corp media is a huge hurdle also. Most people do seem
Edited on Wed Nov-14-07 12:02 AM by Blaze Diem
to be content with the quick news of the msm, rather than take the steps to research the truth behind the issues that bug them.
Media can manipulate the minds of millions in a days time.
Makes me want to grab them by the shoulders and shake them out of their trance-like state of mind.

really !!
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. you forgot
to put "news" in quotes... cuz that's sure as heck not what they're peddlin'.

:)

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. It certainly is ABOUT TIME!
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SusanLarson Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. Recommend
Would recommend this if I could, I know the author of the original story! We need more actions like this to retake our democracy!
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Heywood J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Done for you (NT)
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SusanLarson Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Thanks :)
Thanks :)
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good news tannouncing the appearance of a documentary people need to see, too!
With any luck at all, it might wake up a few people.

Thanks. Rec.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Awesome. n/t
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's not just the DRE's, and not just the optiscans, it's the central tabulators!
We're talking about a SYSTEM of non-transparent vote counting. Let me tell you just how bad it is. As of 2004 (very fast-tracked during the 2002 to 2004 period), about 30 states had e-voting machines (DRE's or touchscreens) with no paper trail whatsoever. Like the whole system, the e-voting machines are run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, which no one--not even our secretaries of state--are permitted to review. So, just figure 30 states written off to whoever Karl Rove and his rightwing donors at Diebold and ES&S wanted to be president.

The rest mostly have optiscans. You mark a ballot, it goes into a box, and is almost never seen again, and your "vote" is turned into electrons, just like the e-votes, and "sent" to the central tabulator, with both the optiscan machine and the central tabulator run on...you guessed it...'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code. Some states--only the best of them--have a 1% audit (automatic recount), extremely inadequate for a system run on 'TRADE SECRET' code. And if you can manage to get a recount--with all sorts of rules and costs against you--you get to recount some small percent, which may or may not find the problem.

But you see my point. If you have private corporations--let alone Bushite corporations--anywhere in the vote counting system, even just printing ballots--you are putting our most sacred duty as citizens at risk. Dan Rather found out that ES&S (brethren to Diebold; manufactures these election theft machines in the sweatshops in the Philippines) provided the PUNCHCARDS in Florida 2000 that were made of inferior paper that stretched in such a way as to produce hanging chads, and at least one employee that Rather interviewed thought it was a deliberate scam to fiddle the election (and another thought it was a scam to get the electronic voting machines purchased as the alternative). (See "The Trouble With Touchscreens," www.HD.net.)

Now let me tell you how they do it in Venezuela. Venezuela has electronic voting, but it is an OPEN SOURCE CODE system--anyone may review the code by which the votes are tabulated--and they handcount a whopping 55% of the votes, as a check on machine fraud. Their elections are furthermore heavily monitored by the OAS, the Carter Center and EU election monitoring groups. That's why they have a president who people actually voted for, and who is building schools and hospitals and helping the poor, with the country's oil revenues, while we have a president who slaughters a half a million people to get their oil, and inflicts us with a $10 trillion deficit.

It's a no-brainer, it seems to me. Transparent vote counting produces good government. Non-transparent vote counting produces greedy, evil, murdering fascist government. In fact, it's such a no-brainer, you gotta wonder about our Democrats, most of whom supported this fascist vote 'counting' system (leader of that pack, Christopher Dodd - ah, you thought he was a 'leftist' - think again.) Not a word of warning did we hear from the Democratic National Committee, or from ANY of our elected officials.

One final thing: the touchscreen vs. optiscan issue (aren't optiscans better because they have a ballot?) is not occurring in a vaccuum. Billions of dollars are at risk of going to schools and hospitals and good projects instead of going into Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia pockets, in this debate. These are the fuckers who have nearly destroyed our democracy--and we're now going to reward them for that, by letting them switch to optiscans, at a cost to us of billions more of our tax dollars?

It is NOT a neutral debate. There is a history here. Fool me once....
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SusanLarson Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Counting the votes...
You hit the nail on the head Peace Patriot.



Enough said...
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. This lawsuit seeks to ban all voting machines, to use only paper ballots, counted by hand, in public
Edited on Tue Nov-13-07 10:16 PM by seafan
AT LONG LAST!!!!! It's been a bitter, seven year battle, but we persevere!


Posted By Christine Anne Piesyk
November 13, 2007


Business as usual will not be the norm over the next 48 hours as Secretaries of State in all fifty states will each receive subpoenas in the http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/2007/11/13/fifty-states-face-voting-machine-lawsuits-uncounted-documents-dre-issues/print/">National Clean Election lawsuit, according to an announcement made Monday night by activist Bernie Ellis at the Belcourt Theatre in Nashville. There is still time, Ellis said, to require a paper trail for the 2008 election.

.....

What began as lawsuits in ten keys (sic) states including Iowa, Ohio, New York and Florida has burgeoned into a nationwide effort.

.....

The lawsuit seeks an Order from the Court prohibiting the use of all voting machines and to force election officials to instead utilize paper ballots and to count and total all votes by hand, always in full view of the public. Plaintiffs from all fifty states have signed on to the lawsuit.

In the question and answer period following the screening, an Iraq veteran said he had pledged to protect his country “from all enemies foreign and domestic” and viewed the issues of voting machines as a domestic threat to voters across the country.



Pen and paper ballots, hand counted at the precinct level, under direct observation by the public, with the results telephoned in to the Secretary of State's office.



NO MACHINES TO CAST OR COUNT OUR VOTES.



I still sound like a broken record on this...


Paper ballots and NOT paper trails! This is critical., July 19, 2006

This is why we must demand paper and pen voting, hand-counted, December 13, 2005

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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
19. sounds like bs to me. not that i wouldn't like to see it happen
maybe it is just not a very well written story. but i have never heard of a lawsuit that encompasses all 50 states. did they file in each state? how did they manage to have standing in all 50 states? who are these people? it sounds like someone's pipe dream.
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SusanLarson Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. bs to you
I think it's a misunderstanding. mopinko...

Secretaries of State in all fifty states will each receive subpoenas in the National Clean Election lawsuit
I believe it's one lawsuit that is going to call the SOS's from every state to testify. Wasn't there so not really sure...
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. i didn't say i didn't want to see it happen.
i just can't see how you could have standing in 50 states. i'm not a lawyer. maybe someone with more training could offer an opinion.
it's just that i am getting tired of getting jacked around on this issue. it sounds like someone who has gone off their meds.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Visit the link to the lawsuit. There are three plaintiffs for each state listed on the suit.
Two of the three plaintiffs for Tennessee attended the premiere of "UNCOUNTED: The New Math of American Elections" on Monday night, which is why I wanted to bring attention to their efforts.

In Tennessee, where 93 of our 95 counties use paperless DREs, moving to opscan with required mandatory random audits would be a definite improvement. But scrapping ALL machines in favor of hand-counted paper ballots would be the simplest and most secure option (when the other options involve the use of ANY proprietary hardware and software.)

If you haven't seen it, get your copy of UNCOUNTED now. (www.uncountedthemovie.com ) Then set up screenings in your community. You can even contact the director (and me) -- if we can, we'll come to your screening to discuss the film and the issues.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R!
:bounce:
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SusanLarson Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. Night all
Had fun today... This topic finally pulled me out of the woodwork :)
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
26. Kudos and laurel wreaths to the lawsuit activists! I hope it works before the PRIMARIES
as well as before the General Election. It is the primaries in which we are being denied the choice of REAL Democrats--anti-war Democrats, Democrats who represent all of the people, not just the war profiteers. Money is a huge factor, too--in the war industry's discouragement of real representatives of the people--but what money can't stop, the voting machines can rig.

Why do you think Christopher Dodd is running for president? Diebold owes him one.

A real snake-in-the-grass, that guy. With Hillary, at least we can see what she is. Not so Dodd.

Reading this post, a thrill went through me. It is so right on. The focus is absolutely right. 'Trade secret' vote counting is an assault on the rights of all voters. It is, in essence, robbing us of our right to vote. The case is so righteous, it couldn't possibly lose in an honest country with a real justice system.

But we should be prepared for disappointment, as to an easy victory--steel ourselves against demoralization. In the FL-13 case, my ears are still ringing from the fascist opinion of the judge. This was a case of egregious election theft. ES&S election theft machines 'disappeared' 18,000 votes for Congress in Democratic areas, in an election that was decided by some 350 votes--and, of course, 'won' by the Republican. When the Democrat Christine Jennings' lawyers took the matter to court and requested to review ES&S's 'TRADE SECRET' code, to try to figure out what happened to those 18,000 votes, ES&S REFUSED, and maintained that they have a "right" to profit from our elections with trade secrets (which, of course, provides them with the ability to steal our elections), and this "right" of theirs trumps the right of the public to know how its voters were counted.

But it wasn't so much this argument by the fascist shits at ES&S that is still boinging in my head--it was that the judge agreed!

And we can expect this outrageous argument on "private property rights" to rear its head again, and if it gets taken to the Supreme Court, what do we think THOSE fascist shits are going to do?

Another problem is that the Constitution does not specifically grant a right to vote to individual citizens. It is left up to the states to each decide how congressfolk and president are chosen, and theoretically the members of the Electoral College could vote differently for president than did the state's voters. Further, Congress has the power to refuse state voting results (as it should have done in FL-13). They can choose whomever they want for president--they have that power, in the Constitution--and also control their own membership. The states have popular elections (one person, one vote), and state laws and traditions have created things the way they are, but Congress has precedence over all. The Voting Rights Act of 1965 addressed the discrimination against black voters, in particular--the effective denial of their right to vote, by poll taxes and other rules, and intimidation. But the Voting Rights Act was not an amendment to the Constitution which, to this day, says nothing about the right to vote.

Other provisions of the Constitution certainly apply--such as the equal protection clause--but I'm afraid that the bottom line of this will have to be a sort of "common law" argument--in other words, the right to transparent vote counting (and thus the right to vote) is so obvious, so fundamental and so necessary, that it needn't be codified in order to be an enforceable legal principle.

Bear in mind that this Supreme Court is a very activist court--in the cause of fascism. They will not hesitate to overturn and violate their own precedents, as they did in Florida 2000, to keep the fascist oiligarchy in power--and out of jail--and to serve the war machine. To them, the law is bendable and twistable, to that purpose. Precedents should be argued, but we shouldn't be surprised if they ignore or overturn them. For this reason, I think the strongest argument is common law.

If those old scandinavians holding their "Thing" (congress) had forced some of their voters to cast their votes as balls of snow, while others got to use stones, it would have been OBVIOUS to all that it was not a fair vote--provided that someone had the courage to buck the establishment and say, "But these other votes are now water--how do we know who they voted for?"

Plain common sense.

Against plain common sense, we have the entire Corporate Ruler power and money machine, which was not content to privatize and loot our natural resources, our water and electricity infrastructure, communications, health care, and everything else in our "commons," even the U.S. military, but has now privatized our very voting system, claiming it as their private property. And this new medieval church--the Church of the Corporation--is so pervasive and all powerful that we, as a people, hardly see it any more, or question its "right" to rule over us.

So the fascists may argue--and the judges may echo them--that, since nobody can make money from our voting system without "trade secrets," and everybody knows that the sole purpose of our government is to help certain people make a profit, ergo "trade secret" vote counting MUST be permitted. They will twist the notion of common law to suit themselves. Don't laugh. We've heard similar nonsense on torture and a host of other issues. I would fully expect it from this Supreme Court and other Bushite judges. Essentially, this is what the FL-13 judge said. It's OBVIOUS that corporate "trade secrets" trump the voters' right to know how their votes were counted.

Obvious to fascist running dogs, but not to ordinary people.

I tend to think that the recovery of our right to vote can only be accomplished by a long slog through every local and state elections office in the country--a difficult, complicated campaign--but doable.

The thing is, once a government takes away your right to vote, they are never going to give it back, voluntarily. And without the right to vote, you have lost your power over them, to force them to do so. That's the situation at the federal level. Our federal government isn't ours any more. It belongs to global corporate predators. We still have a chance, though, in local/state venues, where ordinary people still have some influence, and where the local registrar lives down the street, and the state capitol is not that far away. Local officials are more vulnerable to embarrassment, charges of corruption, and other public pressures (as all public officials should be).

This lawsuit can help us. It can educate the public, and help put pressure on local officials--even if it gets turned back by fascist judges. The matter is SO CLEAR. And the folks doing this lawsuit understand it so well. We MUST restore vote counting that everyone can see and understand. Anything less is NOT democracy.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
27. Yay! Finally!
K and R
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
30. Oh Happy Day!! Oh ! Oh! Doing the happy dance!!!
Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!


YES!!!!

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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
31. This is one of the issues at the heart of what's wrong with America.
K&R
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