Goats Herd Away Homeless In SF

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: NBC11.com

SAN FRANCISCO -- San Francisco’s Corona Heights neighborhood near Haight Ashbury is riddled with million-dollar views and million-dollar homes.

Until recently, it was riddled with homeless. They seem to have left.

Residents have some very unusual company to thank for the change – a herd of hungry goats.

The city brought them in to munch away the thick brush so the homeless won't have a place to hide, NBC11’s Jean Elle reported.

Read more: http://www.nbc11.com/newsarchive/14378974/detail.html

[monktonman]

1. Quik, get those homeless some impeach t-shirts. n/t

[Fovea]

3. and teach them how to roast a whole goat

over a trashcan fire.

[rodeodance]

2. oh ish--goat turds all over the place now.

[Bigmack]

7. They are called...

"nanny berries" and are some of the least offensive droppings around. Certainly better than dogs.

I love goats.... in a very proper and platonic way, of course. Not like those Texas boys!

They are actually very choosy in their diet, and smell good, too. (Not bucks, they stink like... well... a goat!)

I would be afraid that homeless people would roast them, tho. Damn good eating.

[alfredo]

13. Goats eating the brush is also cutting the fire risk.

[bluestateguy]

4. Now to get rid of the goats all you need is to bring in some grizzly bears

The bears will eat the goats and then in the winter the bears will all just freeze to death! Problem solved!

[frylock]

6. then in the winter the bears will all just freeze to death..

i think you meant august.

[pink-o]

44. Ha Ha Ha Ha!!

...You've spent a few summers here, haven't you? :rofl:

[BrotherBuzz]

12. Grizzly bears thrived in California's mild weather, and generally didn't need to hibernate

This was one of the reasons the California Grizzly bear grew larger than others Grizzlies in cooler regions.

The coldest winter I ever experienced was the summer I spent in San Francisco. - sometimes attributed to Mark Twain

[SyntaxError]

28. I don't know why she swallowed the fly...

[Raejeanowl]

5. They'd Rather Look At Goats? n/t

[GoddessOfGuinness]

9. I hope the goats munch out on their gardens

big time.

[Whisp]

34. goats like to eat cans, don't they?

at least they do in the cartoonies.
yeh, they should munch on some of those comfy million dollar opulent assed cans.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

8. Thank goodness!

Why don't those homeless people just get a job, for cryin' out loud! We certainly can't have THAT sort of person in close proximity to million-dollar homes!

:sarcasm:

[liberal renegade]

10. maybe they can become goat herders....

[GoddessOfGuinness]

14. I think that would be great...

I've often wondered if many homeless people wouldn't thrive in a communal living setting where they could operate their own farm...

[harpboy_ak]

19. nope. too dysfunctional

If you had ever worked as volunteer at a homeless shelter (in our community, churches and civic clubs take turns cooking and serving meals, so I have volunteered occasionally, and I donate veggies from my garden) you would know that many homeless folks are too dysfunctional to hold a job. Many of the so-called street drunks are mentally ill but self-medicate with booze, so they're just as unable to work sober as they are drunk. Those that don't drink are often mentally ill but refuse treatment, which is their right as long as they don't endanger others.

Some of them are vets with PTSD, or service-related health issues. Many of them, in addition to these other problems are developmentally disabled or are suffering from the effects of their mother's drinking when she was pregnant. Fetal Alcohol Disorder often prevents those folks from connecting consequences to their actions, as well as causing physical and developmental disabilities.

Add physical abuse by alcoholic parents, and you end up with folks that certainly wouldn't be able to live communally, much less operate a farm, which is NOT as simple as you apparently think. Farming requires intelligence, planning, and a ton of hard physical work, as well as money.

[NBachers]

20. Who else does this sound like?

"Fetal Alcohol Disorder often prevents those folks from connecting consequences to their actions, as well as causing physical and developmental disabilities.

Add physical abuse by alcoholic parents, and you end up with folks that certainly wouldn't be able to live communally, much less operate a farm, which is NOT as simple as you apparently think. Farming requires intelligence, planning, and a ton of hard physical work, as well as money."

What about a movie set farm in Crawford, Texas? Destined to go down in infamy with the Spahn Ranch.

[AngryOldDem]

23. That is very true -- a commune is a good idea, but....

I work at a homeless shelter and our organization operates two homes for whom we describe as the "chronically homeless." (We use the HUD definition of being homeless three times in the past four years.) Most of the chronically homeless we see are people who are literally dying on the streets, through untreated alcoholism or severe mental illness. While the homes we operate do try to uncover exactly why they are homeless, and give them treatment, at the end of the day we are basically giving them a safe haven so that they can survive to see another day. When these homes opened, there were so many candidates for them (many of whom we could list off the tops of our heads) that the homes quickly filled. Some, I hear, are doing well in these homes; others, unfortunately, could not even live in that kind of structured environment and had to leave. They are now back with us at night. Right now, both homes have no vacancies.

Suggesting a communal setting such as a farm is a wonderful idea, and I'm sure there are some of the homeless population who would thrive in such a setting. But I don't think in the entire population, not many would be able to be that self-sustaining. It is indeed a tragedy.

We have literally thrown away generations of people because the subject of homelessness is just too uncomfortable for society to take on. We are paying the price, as any visit to any homeless shelter in this nation can attest.

[Cleita]

26. We used to have safety net programs like that. Thanks to

Ronald Reagan, Howard Jarvis and Proposition 13, a meanspirited movement started in California that cut property taxes and swept across the nation literally dumping populations of dysfunctional people on the streets. The Vietnam War also produced homeless vets suffering from PTSD that added to the homeless population. We now have institutionalized homelessness as an accepted part of our society.

For those who have never had to live in the elements, eat swill and die from exposure because there is inadequate and meaningful health care and treatment, I say try to help a homeless person out of their predicament and it will truly open your eyes as to what it's like to no longer be considered a person.

[Cleita]

25. Speaking of PTSD, you don't have to be a vet to get it.

Life on the streets will do it to people over time because they are so battered from being at the bottom. Honestly, we treat our poor and homeless no better than stray dogs.

[bobbolink]

31. "Honestly, we treat our poor and homeless no better than stray dogs."

You are so right that just being homeless, and being treated as scum by people who run these shelters will cause PTSD!!

Accumulated trauma, over time, and a person becomes unable to fight it anymore.

Yet, there is no law against battering poor people. :(

[nam78_two]

38. Oh absolutely

I am sometimes horrifed to see people sitting with "Hungry and Homeless" signs in the middle of crowded streets and streams of smiling chattering people walk by them, into restaurants or clubs, without paying any attention to them :(.
It is as close as being invisible as one can get.

[BreweryYardRat]

46. There's a problem with that...

...some of those people legitimately are hungry and homeless, and some of them are what you might call "professional beggars." And they look exactly alike. Without spending half an hour questioning them, you can't really tell the difference.

Better to give your money to a legitimate, honest charity that helps the homeless.

[bobbolink]

30. STOP perpetuating the Raygun stereotypes!! BASTA!

You haven't a clue.

Most homeless people are single mothers with children.

There are many disabled people who have no $$$ for the rising cost of rent.

There are many older women who are also priced out of housing.

I am insulted with you stereotyping me in this way.

Walk a mile in my shoes, then tell me just how it feels to you.

[nam78_two]

37. That is certainly not my experience

I have volunteered at shelters a lot too and the vast majority of people I came across were people just very badly down on their luck. A lot of it, seemed to be linked to healthcare woes. If I had to pick the one overwhelming factor I came across, it would be financial troubles due to just not being able to afford healthcare.
It is what happens when you don't have decent health insurance and become sick.

[bobbolink]

39. Thank you! I appreciate so much your touch of sanity here. ^_^

And, you are absolutely correct--even Michael Moore is saying that lack of health care is the #1 cause of homelessness now!

Yet, people refuse to let go of their stereotypes (which are so comforting to them, I guess).

Thanks! :thumbsup:

[Snarkturian Clone]

48. I work in an inner city school

and I'll tell you that I see kids with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome every day. Most of them go undiagnosed because their parents will never admit that they drank while pregnant. They end up getting labeled as ADHD, ODD, or the always enlightening "multiple disability"- all of which are connected with FAS. I tried to talk to the school psychologist and the special ed teacher about it and none of them have even heard of it. I had to show them in a textbook.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

49. Please reread my post.

I never suggested that dysfunctional people would thrive in a communal living situation; nor did I imply that operating a farm was easy.

I'm curious why your volunteer experience has led you to believe too many homeless people are incapable of learning to operate a farm to make it a viable solution for others.

While I've met people whose mental illness issues indicated a need to be placed in an institution that could help them care for themselves (if such a thing still exists since the RayGun era); I've also met homeless people who have jobs...in fast food joints, scrubbing floors, and styling hair. Still others try to feed themselves and their families doing temporary construction work and living in campgrounds. But these jobs can't possibly support a person enough to allow them to keep a roof over their heads...especially when there are children to care for.

How many of those quite capable and intelligent people fall into the cycle of substance abuse as a result of frustration and despair over their current situation? And how many of those people could come clean if they were given the chance...if they were treated as human beings, instead of an embarrassing problem?

If we aren't going to pay these people a living wage, they should be able to receive training for work that will sustain them. A commune or co-op makes sense to me; because they could find solidarity in their common history of being without a home. Working together, they can support each other as you and I could never do, having never walked in their shoes.

On the other hand, such programs would have to be very carefully planned, so they didn't effectively become poorhouses of the 19th and early 20th centuries. The people would need to be trained to operate their own communal businesses, and left alone one they were established.

[Stewie]

47. Judging from what they're doing to the park, I'd say no.

If they can't even sleep in the park without destroying it, I don't think they can handle running a farm.

Most homeless are not functioning people. In most cases they have a mental illness or substance abuse, or both. We had a group that tried offering them jobs or counseling, and they turned us down flat. They don't seem to mind their situation and don't want to do anything to improve.

I know that sounds cold, but it's the truth.

[Whisp]

32. am I reading some of those posts right?

let me get my other better glasses because I'm not really believing some of the things I'm seeing here .....

[bobbolink]

42. Amazing, isn't it?! So much lack of understanding, compassion...

This *IS* a liberal forum, right???

:(

[spag68]

11. I'm sensing a real opportunity

here for a goats milk fudgue stand, real money to be made there, maybe enough for a beer and a joint.

[Occulus]

15. The homeless who are affected should

slaughter half the herd for the meat and milk and breed the other half for all it's worth.

"Thank you for this delicious bounty, oh SF residents"

Sorry, I'm in a REAL snarky mood tonight....

My roommate just added this: if they did that, and started up a fire, and cooked the slaughtered goats, would they be arrested for feeding themselves?

[Cleita]

18. Of course they would. There are laws about slaughtering

farm animals within city limits. Also, I think there are laws about having farm animals in the city limits. Maybe some activists for the homeless should look that up.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cleita]

17. Those rich people are only paying 1% in property taxes.

It's time for California to put another 5% to 10% taxes on homes that are far more ostentatious than a simple family home. The State can then use the money to update housing for the poor and get those homeless into their own apartments permanently. That would end the problem. It's time for the rich, who have become rich on the work and service of others, to start giving back a little for the privilege of owning more than most others.

[Retrograde]

27. so are the not so rich

My California property taxes, which started at 1% of the purchase price when we bought the house, go up regularly every year. The reason this limit was passed in the late 70s was because house prices were escalating so rapidly that homeowners with moderate incomes and retirees were losing their homes because the assessments were more than they could pay. Now that I'm in the latter category, I can understand why. How does one determine ostentation anyway?

There's no simple solution, and I doubt there's one solution that will apply to all homeless. In my fantasy world, I'd like to see a program that matches homeless people with the lower skilled jobs that supposedly Americans will not do. Of course there are a lot of details that need to be ironed out, not the least of which is preserving everyone's rights and exploition of cheap labor (that's why it's a fantasy!).

Bring on the goats! They also eat poison oak, which fuels wildfires and produces toxic smoke that harms firefighters.

[Cleita]

That's what the framers of Prop. 13 sold to the voters that

grandma would be out on the street. It was somewhat true, but one must always beware of Republicans bearing tax gifts. You can be sure the very people that they say they are going to help are going to be shafted. What occurred was a huge real estate boom with speculators coming from all over the world to buy up California property. Those little houses, mostly rentals in the aforementioned Haight/Ashbury district were occupied by poor people and hippies back then. So with escalating property values, these renters were dispossessed and so it started.

Of course the rich bought more and more and made money on them everytime they turned over a property and that 1% property tax was very profitable for them. In the meantime the funds the programs relied on that helped the least among us dried up. Then Gov. Jerry Brown tried to keep them going with a surplus he had accumulated as governor, but he was only able to do it for three years. It was about 1980 that the homeless started to appear on the streets as their safety nets disappeared. How appropriate that Ronald Reagan became President then to view his handiwork that started when he was governor.

btw, I do feel that modest single family homes should remain at 1%, but please, people who own multiple homes and huge mansions really need to be paying much higher property taxes if for no other reason than the fact that they use more infrastructure like roads, water, sewer, etc. than the modest family home does.

[Cleita]

29. Dupe

[EFerrari]

21. Newsom is up for re-election so a few months ago,

he started having the homeless rousted in order that there is an appearance of following through on his campaign promise to end homelessness in San Francisco for his downtown cronies.

[JerseygirlCT]

22. Why seek to solve the homeless problem by getting rid of the

people? Or making it illegal to feed them?

This is sickness of such a degree I can't even comprehend it.

[bobbolink]

33. "This is sickness of such a degree I can't even comprehend it."

As a homeless person, I am sickened by the degree of harshness and hard-heartedness that I hear in the words in this thread... by so-called "liberals".

With the season of "A Christmas Carol" coming up, I think it would be appropriate from some of these posters to be visited by the ghosts of Christmas!

[Cleita]

24. ....

:kick:

[NashVegas]

35. "One neighbor said the goats were a healthy, natural and gentle way to take care of the problem"

... without anyone getting arrested."

Or anyone having to get into a confrontation.

What a nice self-delusion some people have.

[bobbolink]

36. Self-delusion, indeed!

This is why I've come to the sad conclusion that the downfall of the muddleclass isn't a bad thing.

Until/unless they walk in our shoes, they simply aren't able to empathize.

That's what we've come to. :((((

[kskiska]

40. Coyotes Spotted In Golden Gate Park

Oct 3, 2006

(snip)

(CBS 5) SAN FRANCISCO San Franciscans, know, that for some reason, it's a zoo out there. We've had ostriches and deer at the Golden Gate Bridge. An alligator at Mountain Lake Park. In Golden Gate Park, there's buffalo, ducks and sqirrels. At the Golden Gate Park Golf Course, there are plenty of birdies and eagles among other things. But, there used to be two little foxes.

"Unfortunately found the carcass fairly well, it's a gruesome story, but it was fairly well taken care of," said Bruce Olson, the manager of the golf course. CBS 5 asked who took care of it. "We don't know," he said. "The rumor was...coyotes."

That may be a rumor, but coyotes in Golden Gate Park and other spots around San Francisco's Richmond District are not. There have been at least 20 sightings reported to officials.

http://cbs5.com/pets/local_story_276222501.html

[EFerrari]

41. I am so ashamed of this city.

It is firmly in the hands of Money to whom actual human beings are just a "problem".

[Robbien]

43. Did you see the story on Ethnic Cleansing in SF?

Just got done reading it. It is a good example of exactly what is happening in every major city in the US, but it also gave me a greater insight to SF. I had previously believed SF wasn't as effected by urban gentrification and am so disappointed in how much the Dem party leaders had to do with the whole mess.

http://www.sfbayview.com/News/Main/Ethnic_cleansing_in_San_Francisco.html

[EFerrari]

45. I did read it and it is dead on.

If Gavin Newsom is re-elected, we're toast. We may be toast anyway.