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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 09:51 PM
Original message
US warns of disaster if Turks attack Iraq
Source: Washington Post

US warns of disaster if Turks attack Iraq

Molly Moore and Robin Wright in Istanbul
October 15, 2007


AMERICAN officials have begun an intense lobbying effort to defuse Turkish threats to launch a military attack on Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq.

Turkey is also threatening to limit access to critical air and land routes that have become a lifeline for US troops in Iraq.

But even as the US Assistant Secretary of State for European affairs, Daniel Fried, appealed for restraint in Ankara on Saturday, the Turkish Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, at a political rally in Istanbul, urged the parliament to vote unanimously this week to "declare a mobilisation" against Kurdish rebels and their "terrorist organisation", the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).

US military officials predict disastrous consequences if Turkey strikes at northern Iraq and serious repercussions for the safety of US troops if Turkey reduces the supply lines it permits.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/us-warns-of-disaster-if-turks-attack-iraq/2007/10/14/1192300600727.html
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well it sure was a disaster when we did
so maybe they're right.

WTF only we have the right to attack fucking iraq?
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Disaster." As opposed to the well-oiled reconstruction machine currently operating over there
The Bush admin must have been praying for this, because now they can say "things were improving, and if only Turkey hadn't interfered blah blah blah."

:puke:
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. They've been looking to blame Iraq on the Dems, and this is how they'll do it.
They'll blame it on the Dem congress and the Armenian genocide resolution.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Well, look on the bright side
Bush's campaign of mass murder is well on its way to killing more people than died in the Armenian genocide, so at least we won't have to worry about playing second fiddle...

(:sarcasm:, of course)
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dickbearton Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Ya, right. The traitors and war criminals who started this invasion and occupation...
Can't blame it on anyone, but themselves. The American people
are opposed to the war and they know the Criminal Bush started
it.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. The Democrats understand well
that the Armenian resolution will facilitate another front in the war, that's why they're doing it.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. exactly! - just thinking the same thing - getting ready to post it, but
you beat me to it
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yea...this will be another....No one could have saw it coming...
The * administration was warned....Hey Condi....do you see it coming this time. Friggen idiots.....
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. What a joke, Why would anyone take us seriously, anymore?
All of our breast-beating and posturing has been shown to be a total farce.
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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm sure it would be. n/t
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. For once, they're telling the truth.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'm so SICK of reading, "US warns..." Stop threatening everyone! nt
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Especially when our credibility is zero nowadays!
Warn THAT!
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. we are the big bullies
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 12:23 PM by alyce douglas
I think other countries are getting tired of it all.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. Are there oil fields in that part of Iraq?
If so, cheney will take on Turkey too to protect his masters' interests.

Am thinking we are a species about due to become extinct. Too many bugs to work out. Time to start over.
:banghead:
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. You BETCHA! And *'s buddies are already there:
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #15
38. Hunt Oil must want some action right now -- get to work Condi
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
32. many rich oil fields untapped in Northern Iraq, Turkey could
possibly want the oil for themselves, hmmm.....oil wars again, this time between the Turks and Bushco. at the expense of Kurds getting killed now.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Kirkuk has incredible amounts of oil in nearby fields. It si a highly
contested city, principally between Arabs and Kurds but with a healthy dose of Turkoman (ethnic Turks) thrown in for good measure.
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rwheeler31 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. They did so?
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Is this Bush's way of threatening Congress to not pass that law?
Edited on Sun Oct-14-07 10:19 PM by Gregorian
Bush to Congress, We warned you not to pass the genocide law. And see, they attacked. It's all the Democrat's fault.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. why doesn't turkey just expose our politicians who were on the take and who
traded them illegal arms...start with Hasert..and cheney...then they could blow these bastards right out of the water!!

fly
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. What if Turkey's passive-aggressive acts result in having a notable effect
on concluding this country's occupation of Iraq? How ironic that would be.
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. Why IS Bush Being So Quiet On This?
I smell a rat. If this was really going to interfere with Bush & Co. he'd be on TV everyday screaming bloody murder. Why not? SOmethings going on and it stinks like the docks at low tide. Why would Congress do what they're doing now?

Look at Turkey, they're serious. Note the choice of words "against Kurdish rebels and their "terrorist organization". Bush developed the terrorist pre-emption doctrine, now they're going to ram it right up our ....

Watch this one folks, it's a scandal in the making.

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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Because the Chimp and his handlers are scared shitless. Like all cowards
Edited on Sun Oct-14-07 10:54 PM by loindelrio
they talk big when taking on a toothless country like Husseins Iraq. But when a real crises arises, they curl up in the corner.

Remember the recon plane incident with China in 2001.

They (along with us) are about to reap part of what they have sown.

Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events.

- Sir Winston Churchill
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-14-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. It's a Schaudenfreude Festival
It's good that Bush is nervous, and Cheney is in restraints. Even if it's only temporary, it gives us some breathing room. I am hoping that the generals and admirals who really love this country can keep Darth under such security that he can't do anything, including scratch himself.

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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
21. Guess what? The Turks have had it.
I've been following this story. They have made it clear, they have reached the Line in the Sand, where they won't

It seems Washington has understood that. They can tell: the Turks mean it.
Of course, the Bush administration's strategy is to go running to the press & screaming about "dire" consequences when this has been brewing for years. But did they do anything then? Silence. Chirping of crickets.

NOW when we are moving towards an all-out armageddon in the area, they react. ALWAYS, always slow on the uptake. Always reacting in hindsight, when it's too late. Stupid, stupid clowns.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
22. I don't know what's going on with this. It's a puzzle. But I was thinking back
to the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962, when Khrushchev started sending nuke missiles to Cuba in response to U.S. placement of nuke missiles on the border of the Soviet Union in Turkey, and also in response to the CIA Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, in the early months of JFK's presidency (which JFK didn't support). Nuclear war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union was imminent in October 1962. And a key component of how JFK prevented it, and defused the situation, was removal of U.S. nukes from the border area in Turkey. Khrushchev simultaneously removed Soviet nuke missiles from Cuba.

In retrospect, it appears that U.S. war profiteers in league with the CIA had set JFK up for a nuclear war, to be sparked by the Soviet Union's response to, a) the Bay of Pigs invasion (Cuba was a Soviet ally), and b) placement of nuke missiles in Turkey within striking distance of Moscow and other Soviet cities. There is little doubt in my mind, now, that JFK's response to this situation--acting to prevent nuclear war--and his later signing of executive orders to begin withdrawal of U.S. military "advisers" from Vietnam (another field of proxy war) resulted in Kennedy's assassination by the CIA with participation by allied fascist Cuban exiles in Florida. Kennedy was too peace-minded, and the war industry was already out of control (as Ike warned about, at the end of his presidency).

In both cases, Cuba and Vietnam, CIA activity pushed these countries away from developing democratic processes, and toward alignment with the Soviet Union or China. In the case of Vietnam, in particular, there was an excellent chance that Ho Chi Minh might even ally with the U.S., or at least remain quite neutral, even though it wanted a communist economic system. Vietnam was very independence-minded, and had fought off Chinese dominance for 5,000 years. They did not want to be dominated by ANYONE. Ho Chi Minh wrote pleading letters to Eisenhower, quoting Thomas Jefferson and asking the U.S. to recognize their war for independence (against the French colonialists) as similar to that of the U.S. (In one of Ike's biggest mistakes--more than likely influenced by CIA paranoia--the U.S. nixed the UN-sponsored elections in Vietnam, that Ho Chi Minh would have won, hands down. Thus, Vietnam would have had an ELECTED communist government, chosen by the people.) Cuba might never have been a U.S. ally, but it most definitely was pushed into being a Soviet client state by hostile U.S./CIA behavior. This was totally unnecessary as well. Cuba's was also a righteous revolution--a response to great oppression by the Bautista dictatorship. And it is no wonder that small countries like these, subject to centuries of brutal exploitation, saw communist economics as the solution. But U.S. policy was not driven by fairness, by support for the will of the people, or by any ideals of democracy or equity. It was driven by the rich class and its corporate and war profiteer allies who dreaded a worker revolution here, and were appalled at the success of communism in major countries like Russia and China (whose peoples' also suffered from brutal exploitation by the rich).

As RFK later demonstrated, the Kennedys DID have ideals of democracy and equity. JFK was hardly in office long enough to fully develop his policies--and to grow in the office (he was very young)--but RFK, after his brother's assassination, CONTINUED the path that both of them had been on, toward seeing the world in less black and white terms (communism vs. capitalism, us against them), and creating a more peaceful and just world. Both had emerged as leaders right out of the post-WW II, McCarthyite era (paranoid anti-communism), so their growth curve was steep, but they absolutely brought something new to American politics, and envisioned--or were trying to envision--a world without war, and with social justice as the goal. In fact, I think they were both assassinated by our own war profiteers and CIA warmongers. The contest--throughout my lifetime--has been between those in our secret government and corporate board rooms who wanted to exploit the U.S. victory in WW II, militarily and with brutal trade policy, to dominate the world and profit themselves, and those who saw the U.S. victory as a fortuitous opportunity to genuinely seek peace, democracy and human rights. The latter scored a victory with the Marshall Plan in Europe (generous economic aid and democracy-building, even in, or especially in, Germany--and a similar plan in Japan), and with creation of the United Nations. The latter scored many dubious 'victories' such as drawing the U.S. into war in support of a CIA-created "South Vietnam" (2 million people slaughtered--for WHAT?). They lost the war, but made fat profits, and maintained the war machine that would eventually be used, by Bush, for naked aggression--similar to Hitler's invasions.

Fast-forward to Turkey, today. Russia is still a factor. They still have nuke weapons, and are very upset by the Bushites' plan to place nukes in their former eastern European client states, right on their border, just as before. Why the Democrats in Congress--who have so far defied the will of the American people, and have escalated the war on Iraq--are bringing up an anti-Turkey resolution (on a very old matter) now, is anybody's guess. But the situation strikes me as similar to 1962, with the secret government and warmongers now in direct control of U.S. policy, itching for more war booty and dreaming of domination, oblivious to the humanitarian issue of nuclear weapons use (not to mention potential loss of the planet). And Turkey in the middle of it--this time positioned between a failing U.S. war (much like Vietnam) and an increasingly alarmed and hostile Russia. It is not exactly the same, but similar enough to give one the willies. In those days, we had a president who wanted to avoid war. Now we have a president and vice president who want not only started one, with no justification, but who seem to want a nuclear war--for their own insane reasons. Is WW III to be the ultimate result of those Kennedy assassinations in the 1960s?

I know that people who want to reopen those investigations feel this way--that things started to go really wrong with those assassinations; that they are an open wound that still needs healing; and that we, to this day, don't know who killed these good leaders. And if it was our own, shouldn't we know?

Well, I've meandered. The current Turkey issue triggered my memory. Turkey was the issue then (not Cuba--or not primarily Cuba). And this situation is no less incendiary than that other one, long ago. And we don't have peace-minded leaders any more.

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Wish I could nominate your post , Peace Patriot
Thought provoking analysis of this situation.
And a key part of it is, "They lost the war, but made fat profits, and maintained the war machine ..."
It does seem that whenever the government starts shifting money and the economy away from the war machine to social issues we "need" to become embroiled in a conflict. The real threat to the corporations and people behind this is that the industries they own will be marginalized and the money flowing into their coffers will dry up. And this they will avoid at any cost - the true cost of course, being deflected to all of us.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
24. I believe this just may hamper and Iran attack
or the crazies in control are just insane enough to go ahead and pour kerosene on the fire.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. That was my thought too, LC.
That might even be part of the Turkish governments intent.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. the thing is
it won't stop cheney. He will think he can rely on his aircraft carriers in the gulf to do the whole Iran attack. Stupid greedy man.

:nuke:
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
26. Then the US will be able to blame Turkey for the US's colossal failures
in Iraq.

:puke:

DemEx
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Turkish Parliament voted to authorize the use of force. Now it's in Pelosi's court
to have the genocide vote go through that will inflame Turkey
or

..pull the bill if requested by the CiC


Soon the Kurds in northern
Iraq will find out if the 15 years of peace and prosperity will come to an end.
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End Of The Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. There may be a third player here
Why is the genocide resolution going forward this time when it hasn't gained traction in the past?

In the past, Israel has sided with Turkey in lobbying against the resolution. They were successful.

This time, Israel is not throwing its hat in the ring with Turkey -- some sources say because Israel doesn't like some new Turkish policies affecting Jews living in Turkey.

Hmmm...
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
33. i guess our secretary of sovietology could not see this coming....
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
36. Where did I put that scare card?


All stores are open for shopping
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
37. Fuck the Turks.
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 03:13 PM by Odin2005
If they want to whine and bitch about us recognizing the Armenian Genocide they can fuck themselves.
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Orrin_73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. You are sure your in the right forum
you should go to littlegreenfootballs or jihadwatch, there are many like you over there.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Being sick of Turkey's whining every time the Armenian Genocide is brought...
...up makes me a right-wing wacko? :eyes:
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
39. Go Turkey Go! Let's get this how on the road!
OTOH, is is only fitting for the Bushies to start the next phase of Biltzkrieg after our long Sitzkrieg, and Turkey wuld be usurping the Empire's place in the history books by doing so.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
41. I don't know anyone who could have predicted such a mess
Nope. I don't recall anyone ever saying that there could be serious problems with Turkey over Northern Iraq.

:sarcasm:
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-16-07 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
43. Turkey better watch out. If they fuck with bush's oil fields we'll end up in war with them.
Edited on Tue Oct-16-07 04:11 PM by superconnected
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