Democratic state leader 'livid' over candidates' decisions to withdraw

[RiverStone]

Source: Detroit Free Press

By TODD SPANGLER

FREE PRESS WASHINGTON BUREAU

A leading Michigan Democrat called the decision by four presidential contenders to pull their names off the state ballot “a cheap political trick,” but said there will be a Jan. 15 primary regardless of who is left to run.

“I’m livid,” said Debbie Dingell, a Democratic national committeewoman and wife of U.S. Rep. John Dingell. “What they don’t realize is they’re not running for president of Iowa, they’re running for president of the United States.”

U.S. Sen. Barack Obama, former Sen. John Edwards, Delaware Sen. Joe Biden and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson moved to have their names taken off the primary ballot before today’s 4 p.m. deadline.

By doing so, they could help themselves with voters in Iowa and New Hampshire, where officials saw their primacy threatened by Michigan’s move to Jan. 15, even though those states were expected to leap-frog Michigan to even earlier dates in January.

Read more: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071009/NEWS06/71009036

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Can someone in the know underline who the good guys (or bad guys) are in this controversy?

My quick read is both Michigan and Florida Dems are NOT following the wishes of DNC Chair Howard Dean and are moving their Primaries ahead of Iowa. Basically they told the DNC to fuck off.

While the MI and FLA Democratic Party's are getting their ass spanked, the state Dem voters are told their votes won't count. Sorry, no delegates! Does the punishment fit the crime?

I also find it curious that Hillary did NOT remove her name from the ballot in MI. So we just hand the state of Michigan to her as a freebie? That does not make sense either!

The Biden for President Campaign Manager said this of the whole mess:

"Today's decision reaffirms our pledge to respect the primary calendar as established by the DNC and makes it clear that we will not play into the politics of money and Republican machinations that only serve to interfere with the primary calendar," said Biden for President Campaign Manager Luis Navarro.

http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2007/10/four_candidates_withdraw_from.html

Republican machinations? Why would State Party Chairs want to do ANYTHING to help the rethugs?

ALL Dems deserve a voice and to have their vote counted! This whole confusing mess does not reflect well on the Dem party no matter which direction you look at it from!

[brentspeak]

1. I'd like to know just what the heck is going on with this whole primary controversy.

Why are some state Democratic parties defying the DNC? Why aren't the two coming to some kind of agreement?

[MilesColtrane]

31. Democratic voters in Michigan and Florida want more influence over who...

...the Democratic nominee is in 2008 at the expense of voters in other states, even though they agreed on the revamped primary schedule.

[Romulox]

33. Democratic voters in Mi and Fl DID NOT vote for the primary schedule, party insiders did...nt

[MilesColtrane]

34. Then they made a bad choice on who to represent them. n/t

[Vidar]

40. It has nothing to do with Michigan voters. We are ignored as usual.

Just more insider politics.

[tsuki]

2. It is not the wish of Dean. It is the rules that the DNC voted on, 447

votes.

Republican machinations? Looks more like the DLC trying to destroy Dean and the DNC. The dems can't fight the repubs, but they can sure go after other dems.

[susanr516]

15. I think you're right n/t

[raebrek]

39. I agree n/t

[Bucky]

3. Just guessing, but...

Clinton is strong enough in Iowa and NH to afford to give them a very quiet "fuck you". If anything, it reinforces her image as a strong leader, someone who won't pander to special interest groups like ego-centric Iowa and New Hampshire voters who think they deserve to pick our nominees each year. She's got the money, so a weak showing in Iowa or NH won't kill her campaigns in California & other super Tuesday states.

The four drop-outs are each banking on an upset in the first two states, so can't afford to piss off the traditional first voters. The assumption is taht after IA & NH, only two viable candidates will be standing, Clinton and the not-Clinton. Each is running for not-Clinton.

The villains are the Founding Fathers, who gave control over state laws to the states. Thus each state can pick when its primaries are held.

[razors edge]

27. The villains are the Founding Fathers,

who gave control over state laws to the states.

What were they thinking? They should have just made it a dictatorial federal government to begin with and spared all of this gruesome transformation.

The whole idea of leaving a state whose laws you don't like for one with laws you do was stupid.

Fortunately we are getting that nonsense under control.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

4. I find DUer madfloridian to be very insightful as to the Florida issues

She also has kept a journal of her excellent threads on this subject.

Link to her journal: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian

[IndianaGreen]

32. The rank-and-file in Florida disagree with that poster

Most people are tired of Iowa, and their idiotic ethanol industry, always being first. Look at Iowa's track record. Look at the gem of Mister Electable that they gave us in 2004.

The current system sucks and should be dismantled. Replace the two puny states that always want to be first, mostly for the big bucks the campaigns spend in them, with a system of rotating regional primaries.

[Vidar]

41. I agree. I'm from Michigan, & most of MF's information applies here as well.

[zalinda]

5. Okay, so MI and FL are pissed about the time when

their primaries are run, why do it now? Why do it when this is one of the most important campaigns ever? I certainly understand not wanting to wait, and being first in line, but isn't this a little like pissing in the wind?

So you work out all the quirks and rules for 2012, in the next 4 years, why pull this now? They only thing that makes sense is that they want MONEY !!!!!!!!!!! Money that it takes to run TV ads, to put feet on the ground, and by gum they are going to get theirs' no matter who gets hurt.

zalinda

[Bucky]

6. "one of the most important campaigns ever"

This is a pretty unimportant campaign. Whoever wins the nomination and whoever gets elected isn't going to have many options about how they go about cleaning up the neocon mess. The situation is dire, thanks to Monkeyboy, but the choices about the future are actually pretty limited. Any vaguely competant person can being to unscrew the planet. Any politician interested in reelection--or even not killing off the species--is going to choose from a fairly limited menu of policies.

People always say, "this year's election is especially vital" or "is a turning point." This year, however, it's not.

[martymar64]

9. The siutation is indeed dire

And this election is not going to change much if anything at all. To be honest, I thinks the days of the federal system are numbered. Secession and dissolution of the federal sytem is sounding better and better every day.

[riona]

7. If this was an organized plot from the get-go, who would benefit?

The DLC, DNC, one of the Dem candidates, or the GOP? Some mystery writer could have a ball with this plot. Tune in for the next chapter........

[annabanana]

8. I'm just not too happy about

the effect this kind of thing has on "almost dems" that are all over Michigan these days...

Not quite sure how to think about it..

[madfloridian]

10. I don't think they are withdrawing from the ballot in Florida.

Just not going to campaign here.

So color me confused as heck.

[RiverStone]

11. And if your confused....

I can't fathom how John Q. Public will ever get it! More importantly, what will it look like to the uninformed? ANSWER: not good!

With compliments to Mad's better-then-most understanding of the FLA vs DNC battle. :)

[AZ Criminal JD]

12. The DNC has already handed Florida to the Repugs

Now it is going to concede Michigan. The loss of Florida won't mean too much in the electoral college because we lost it in 2000 and 2004 anyway. If we now lose Michigan we will be in big trouble. If we lose the 2008 election one only has to look at the Iowa and New Hampshire Democratic parties who put themselves above all others at any cost.

[sendero]

14. Most sane people agree..

... that we have to stop letting Iowa choose our candidate. Most sane people also agree that we cannot let states start willy-nilly setting their own primary schedules. Dean had to take a stand, he had no choice.

[madfloridian]

16. That is not true. You keep repeating a lie.

Florida Democrats were totally on board since March 2006...with the GOP.

You keep repeating a big lie. That is just wrong, and I am going to continue to call you on it.

[AZ Criminal JD]

25. Happy to come over to Florida and debate you on this

Location and audience of your choosing.

[Divine Discontent]

38. RRREEEOOOWW! LOL... sorry, just made me laugh...

LET'S GET READDDDDDDDY TO RRRRRRUMMMMBLLLLEEEEE!!!!

I think, like most of us, if we're so confused and upset and at odds over this, the average voter (90% of people I'd guess) is like WHAT THE F are the Democrats doing whining and griping about who goes first. This does look foolish imo, and the main blame goes to the state party heads that didn't just keep pushing the DNC for revamped dates over time.

[mark414]

18. the delegates votes only don't count for the primary, not the GE

[JNelson6563]

22. Ok, that's nonsense.

We won't lose Michigan, though I can't speak for FLA.

Julie

[Kagemusha]

13. To reply to the governor...

They're running for the nomination of the Democratic Party.

It may be news to him that the party is bigger than his ego.

[madfloridian]

17. The party is bigger than the egos of MI and FL

And I am tired of the lies.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

They knew the consequences when they voted to change dates.

As Dean said today in Florida in a brief comment:

"This is a fight among politicians. At the end of the day, once we get past this -- which will be relatively soon -- we've got some serious months of campaigning ahead of us. You're going to see a lot of Democrats in Florida working very hard to win Florida."

[RiverStone]

21. once we get past this....

What do you see (or predict) as an outcome? Will the FLA Dems back down? Even if one Dem voter feels his/her vote won't count, that's one too many.

You sound optimistic.

[madfloridian]

30. No, I am not optimistic.

I think both states will keep on trying to destroy the DNC's authority because of the chairman. It is a power struggle.

I think when such massive lies are told and repeated in the media without respite, that the side telling the lies will win.

I don't feel good at all about it. I have been reading media accounts of Dean's visit here today, and they are ugly and sarcastic.

I think there will be no winner.

[cachukis]

19. As a Former Democratic Executive Committe member

in Tampa during the run up to 2004, I attended many committe meetings that were chaired by DLC influenced leadership (Janee Murphy)

http://tampa.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?imageIndex=2&oid=oid%3A5855

motivated by Scott Maddox the State Chairman, one of 100 DLC'rs to watch,

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=104&subid=210&contentid=1804

I was chagrined to sense that leadership inspired by Republican emulations. They felt that the Republican methodology worked and that it should be copied. Furthermore, when in power it was to take advantage of those earnings. It became a sad spectacle when we learned that the treasurer had donated substantially to a Republican candidate.

I suspect that Bill Clinton recognized that he had no choice but to work with the Gingrich revolution to have any impact, hence his Greenspan avowal.

The South is filled with Reagan Dem/Repubs who still admire Nixon's Southern strategy.

They still reside on the Alabama Riviera, but not in WPB or Broward. There is that Miami condrum, but that is the state of confusion now over immigration. Orlando has a Democratic Mayor as does Tampa (25% black pop.). Jax has the Gator Bowl and Georgia fans who move there; former prisoners and their descendents thrilled to utilize their new freedom as potential wardens.

There are a lot of Democratic/Repugs in the state and the DLC sees their following as a force locally to be compared with the corporations that make big time candidates swing.

Clinton didn't support NAFTA for goose eggs.

Of course this is all the conjecture of a wild eyed cat.

Cachukis

[Barrett808]

20. Welcome to DU, cachukis!

:hi:

[JNelson6563]

23. Michigan scoop

Mark Brewer (our state party chair) has told us many times that the national convention works like this:

It will be up to the nominee to bar a state's delegation to the convention. Whatever they choose to do now in regard to being on the ballot etc. (and those who have "withdrawn" to have people on the ground here, lending credence to the view this is all for show) they will not be stupid enough to turn a state away at convention in Denver.

Julie

[AZ Criminal JD]

24. Of course the winning candidate will seat the delegates

But that is not the point. The point is to win elections. The damage will be done in both Florida and Michigan by the Repugs and the media when these primaries occur. They will say the Democrats don't care about these states. They don't want their votes, etc. People will remember. You can whistle past the graveyard if you want but I know three candidates who are cursing Dean right now no matter what they do in public.

[JNelson6563]

26. Whatever.

I'm sure you know how the people of Michigan feel better than I, I'm only involved with 14 counties of the state.

Oy.

Julie

[madfloridian]

29. They did a good job on Dean, Julie.

Both states broke the rules and made it his fault and the DNC's.

I am surprised who has fallen for it. I feel disheartened over all of it. It shows that truth and integrity mean little to our party any more.

[Demeter]

42. No One Ever Went Broke Underestimating the Stupidity of Americans

and that goes double for our so-called Democratic leadership.

[olddad56]

28. How about all of the dem candidates drop out of the race entirely...

and admit that we no longer live in a democarcy, that the last two elections were rigged and this one will be also. Can you say Emperor Rudy?

[eagler]

37. I think what you're saying is more true than we can imagine.

[hedgehog]

35. The worst part? This year there are several candidates with the

money and ambition to go all the way. The problem with front loading the primaries is that actual campaign time in other states will be very limited. If the calender had been left unchanged, Iowa and New Hampshire wouldn't have meant much. Now, their effect is as exaggerated as ever.

[Sukie1941]

36. All this controversy not good for Democrats

For people like me who have a life outside of politics, these kinds of controversies don't help the party's image.

Lots of folks who are undecided see this as a "mess" and might want to just forget about voting Democratic.

[RBInMaine]

43. Florida and Michigan need to stop this crap! Blame them!

With all respect, this is a NATIONAL party and the DNC is our national leading organization. The states need to respect the final primary schedule set out by the DNC according to their rules. These states need to stop fighting with our national party on the matter of the primary schedule. They need to stop frigging with the schedule in order to get some kind of
one-ups-manship so they can have an earlier primary. NOT EVERYONE CAN GO FIRST! In Maine, our caucus is set for February 13th, and so be it. We aren't up here twisting our mustaches trying to figure out how to have it earlier. That is and has been the set date, and that's that. Again, we are a NATIONAL party with a NATIONAL committee, and it is entirely THEIR authority to determine the final primary/caucus schedule for Democratic Party of the United States, and the individual states need to respect that. (Just as our federal constitution gives the national govt. every authority to intervene in many interstate disputes, just as it SHOULD be!) Michigan and Florida need to back down here and respect the DNC rules. This should not and does not have to be an issue unless individual states want to keep making it one.

[Froward69]

44. I Keep thinking

Fla-state legislature is controlled by repugs. Michagan I am unshure about, I blame them! adhere to the DNC rules. simple.