Russia Says U.S. Attack on Iran Would Be Catastrophic

[Palladin]

Source: Bloomberg

Sept. 18 (Bloomberg) -- A U.S. military strike on Iran would have ``catastrophic consequences,'' Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Losyukov said.
``Bomb attacks on Iran would be a wrong move leading to catastrophic consequences,'' Losyukov said in an interview with newspaper Vremya Novostei, published on the ministry's Web site.

Losyukov's remarks come two days after French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said the world should ``prepare for the worst'' in the crisis over Iran's nuclear program, and that ``the worst is war.'' In Moscow today, Kouchner said everything must be done to avoid war and called for all sides to ``negotiate, negotiate, negotiate without a break.''
-------------------------
Russian President Vladimir Putin is due in Tehran on Oct. 16 for a meeting of leaders of the countries bordering the Caspian Sea, and Losyukov was asked if Putin might be in danger from U.S. attacks if he attends. ``I think they will refrain before the summit, otherwise they'll have very serious problems,'' he replied.





Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aNEshLQmbHI4&refer=home

---

The neocons and fundies and all their bought politicians in the former United States absolutely must
realize that they can really have their cherished World War III. There's not much more to say.
These neocon subversives need to get neutralized. I pray to God that there's a Constitutionally loyal
element of the American military which can do it. That's something that the Russians, and the world, will appreciate.

[Purveyor]

1. This is the first confirmation I've seen that Putin will indeed go to Tehran to attend

this Caspian Sea summit. The Iranian press has been announcing this for a couple of weeks now.

Perhaps it will come out of this meeting that Russia and Iran will enter into a 'mutual aid security pact'.

Now that would set the neocons spinning for real.

Thank you for posting. K&R

[kineneb]

15. background on previous Russia-Iran relations

long, but worth the read...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6687

America's "Long War": The Legacy of the Iraq-Iran and Soviet-Afghan Wars
by Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya
Global Research, September 16, 2007

-snip-
Machiavellian Geo-Strategy: Playing Iraq against Iran in the "Northern Tier"

Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan were in an area called the "Northern Tier" by American strategists. This area was believed to be the region from which the Soviet Union could breakout of Eurasia by reaching the Persian Gulf. It was also considered to be the area bordering the Soviet Union's most sensitive area. It was from here that a game of expansion, containment, and penetration was being carried out. A balance of power was very important in this regard.

One country above all others was vital for the balance of power and that was Iran. If the Soviets overran Iran, they would have direct access to the Persian Gulf and if American or British troops were in Iran they would be directly on the southern and sensitive borders of the Soviet Union. The status quo had been, since the time of the so-called "Great Game" between Britain and Czarist Russia, that Iran would be a military buffer zone. While Iran was an ally of the U.S. and NATO before 1979, there were also restrictions on it in the context of a longstanding bilateral relationship with the Soviet Union.

Iran severed its military alliance with the United States after the 1979 Iranian Revolution. This was seen as a geo-strategic victory by the Soviet Union. Although the Soviets were concerned about the ideology of the new government in Iran, they were relieved that Iran was no longer colluding with the U.S. and its partners. Nonetheless, there was still a state of mistrust between Moscow and Tehran. The Americans could not intervene militarily in Iran with a view to gaining control over Iran's oil fields. A bilateral treaty between Iran and the Soviets had allowed the Soviet Union to intervene in Iran if forces of a third party operating within Iran were perceived as a menace to Soviet security. Naturally, Moscow would perceive any American invasion of Iran, on the direct borders of the U.S.S.R., as a threat and invoke the bilateral treaty.

-snip-

The Red Factor in Iran: The Soviet Union's Treaty Right to Intervene

Close to the start of the Iraq-Iran War, the Soviet government, after talks with the revolutionary government in Tehran, was notified that Iran was terminating Moscow's right to militarily intervene in Iran, and by extension in the Persian Gulf, under the 1921 Treaty of Friendship signed between the Russian Socialist Federal Soviet Republic (S.F.S.R.) and Iran. <9> The reason the agreement was made between the Russian S.F.S.R., instead of the U.S.S.R., and Iran was because the U.S.S.R. was in the process of forming and all its constituent republics had not integrated at the time, in 1921.

It was the Treaty of Friendship that was invoked during the Second World War by the Soviets in an attempt to legitimize the Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran. Under Article 5 and Article 6 of the 1921 Treaty of Friendship, the Soviet military was legally permitted to intervene in Iran if preparations were being made for an armed attack on the U.S.S.R. by a foreign power (e.g., the U.S.). <10> The Soviets objected to Tehran's decision, but were reluctant and bogged down in Afghanistan. Eventually and with time they tacitly accepted the Iranian decision.

It was this agreement between the Soviets that kept the U.S. from invading Iran. It is also because of this agreement that the British did not try to invade Iran, but created an internationally illegal military blockade that prevented Iranian trade and the export of oil when the government of Dr. Mossadegh, the prime minister of Iran, nationalized Iranian oil in 1951. It is obvious that international laws are only useful to the leaders of America and Britain, who misuse their nation's foreign policies, only when it benefits them. <11>

-snip-

[simmonsj811]

60. WHY,WHY,WHY

IS IT THAT A FEW WILL BE ALLOWED TO PUT THE REST OF US IN JEOPARDY?? I KNOW FOR SURE I DIDN'T GIVE MY PERMISSION FOR THIS MADNESS

[Colorado Progressive]

2. "they can really have their cherished World War III"

Unfortunately it seems that IS what they want. But WHY??????? Do these idiots really think THEY would go anyplace good if there is an afterlife?

[beberocks]

6. They think they are holier than thou, and Jesus is going to greet them

They think if they go to church regularly, it gives them permission to do whatever else they want--lie, steal, kill. IMO, it's why so many fundies are in the GOP, they want to think they are superior to everyone else. Religion is just the tool they use to feel superior.

[FredStembottom]

18. It's one of the main reasons I left Christianity years ago......

I couldn't stand the increasing number of people who seemed to think that spending Sunday morning saying "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" gave them another free week of boozing, adultering, bigotry, war-making.....

It seemed to be permission to go freely and sin!

[undergroundpanther]

31. The bible has two ways of interpreting

every verse.

There is the milk, The love bomb god that avoids verses about the god sanctioned rape,war, torture convert the world commands and genocide that pleases god,The Jesus that hates children and comes with a sword..


and the meat....

Where it is taught Jesus is god and the only god.(trinity of the father stuff is still ONE god in three dissociated parts) This believer Worships an Archon,a god of good who creates evil as well and made this fucked up world.
Anyone saying there is one god that created this world and bows to it worships an evil two faced god because any god that uses torture,death, pain or authoritarians to teach us moral lessons and uses that abuse as the rationale and bribes of heavenly bliss as reasons of why to trust in him as if it was a mystery is an abuser.
Any god that justifies beating kids with rods to ensure children are not spoiled and their souls pure is an asshole.
Any god willing to destroy life to please itself,advocates genocide to give his"chosen people" a gift, or justifies women must submit to men like handmaidens because eve sinned, is Unspeakably evil.

The creator of this world is an evil creator/monster abusive shit head that can put on a nice face like any abusive shit head can,to seduce the wounded into believing he is good..

The bible and many other religious texts say this truth about the creator outright and also in disguised words.Believers in said Archon who fear their god,do not like hearing this.

And the fact the bible god is two faced, it is evil and this world is corrupted and the ones who know scripture or claim to be teachers, still sin without regard, speaks volumes about the inherent evil of the lie that there is one god, it is good and it made a world such as this.

There is no UNITY here between this world the thing that created this world,and wisdom in spirit.That sick God of Abraham and his parts including Jesus is an arrogant LIAR and a murderer from the beginning.His creation and bloody clawed nature reflects how evil it is even without humans on the scene.

And that truth is why his higher up followers do sin with impunity and try to hide it from the flocks not ready for the"meat" of scripture..Christian god allows sin and created sin and the punishments for sin and the forces that force sin.It is a closed loop game of torture this god plays..The bible shows god favors the psychopaths over other people.The way nature and human culture behaves proves this seemingly paradoxical situation is god sanctioned . It cannot resolve itself if you insist there is one god.Unless you accept your God is accepting and creating evil and IS evil.. The fundie asshole knows their own god's words,better than the believers who will not face the hard passages and think the creator of this world loves them.

Any believers who still cannot stomach the ugly truth of what their beloved warm fuzzy abusive god really is is going to be duped by the bible and the church..
The fundie assholes sin and get away with it because they can see every verse in the bible has at least two ways of being interpreted. For good, for evil both. For The God that created this world created good AND evil.He knew about evil allows it, and did not care to stop it.He has the world in his hands and suffering amuses him greatly. He is no god worthy of my trust, in fact I despise the God of Abraham..

[Megahurtz]

59. Not to mention their Thievery as well. n/t

[AllyCat]

53. Well I saw a bumper sticker that said "perfectly forgiven" and the

guy was driving like a complete jerk, cutting people off, not using signals, etc. Guess I should get one of those stickers and then I can do whatever I want too. Wouldn't that be convenient?

One lady I know whose dad was a minister for some fundy church (he has just passed this year) said that no matter what happens, all she has to do when she dies is face God and say, "You promised." Like a little kid in the schoolyard. Yep. That oughtta do it for all of us. Except that I can't imagine standing before a supreme being of any kind and being that brash.

[formercia]

9. Suicide Bomber mentality

no different except for scale.

[Love Bug]

23. They want to bring on Armageddon so Christ will be forced to return

What arrogance! They really do see themselves as the "Hand of God."

[undergroundpanther]

37. Yes

And the bible says they are.

I hate the bible.I hate any god that would create a world such as this and kill it in such a sick game,in a big torturous drama..

That's why I am a Gnostic. Fuck god/archon.Fuck this world it's sick creation it's hierarchy and systems of control,And fuck his minions they are nothing but sockpuppets for an evil god who hates and envies spiritual beings,not like this world..So much it will destroy the half dead world it made.

That god of abraham is nothing but a two faced archon,it makes sure we will live in a world without love.

[The Doctor.]

51. If I were The Lightbringer, the Great Deceiver, I would write a book...

It would be a book filled with wisdom and grand stories of faith and prophecy. It would be a book about teaching life to the living and giving succor to the dead. It would be a book of infinite justice, infinite punishment, and infinite cruelty. It would be a book of infinite forgiveness for any sin expressed in my book, but only for those that embraced my message.

By these traits my book would be embraced by so many. All of humanity would feel it's power, and many of them would understand how to wield that power and become wealthy beyond imagination. They would use that wealth to spread my influence and accumulate more wealth.

Woe to those that ignore the teachings of my book whilst exercising it's power.

One day, and I'll see to it personally, a man will claim to have discovered the way to avoid death in the words of my book. A new power will be found in my book. They will think it is the power to avoid death, they will think it is the key to immortality, they will believe they are above all others... and they will execute the plan in my book.

They will believe that in order to achieve immortality and avoid death, the world must die.

All the while they will work their ways upon the world to bring it to destruction they will tell themselves it is 'God's Will'. Not once will they realize or understand how so many will work separately toward that one end... for I have given them all the realization and understanding they will ever need to complete my plan.

They will be guided by their fear, their pride, their mental sloth, their insecurities, and they will fulfill my will.

And I will watch as the world dies and they raise their hands into the air seeking salvation, waiting to be 'taken away' from the hell they created.

Perhaps as they scream and curse, and their skins fester while they starve slowly, perhaps they may grasp the beauty of my plan. They may realize sheer exquisite irony, and the perfect end they have brought upon themselves.

I am their fear, their anguish, their insecurity, their pride, their pain, their lust, their ignorance, their greed... I am all that has caused strife in the world, and at long last I will have put the end of all ends to myself for there will be no one left to carry and weild my spirit.

After the last of them have cried in betrayed anguish, I will fade into sweet oblivion, and my last whisper will blow like the widowed winds into the void, 'I am victorious'.

[undergroundpanther]

67. Yep

Yahweh or Lucifer is the same thing by any name it claims ..It is the archon a liar a system of domination,who with his false comforts promises and prophecies, protects the sickness called evil living in people, blinding them to their own asshole,while they believe they are perfect and can do no wrong.Fundies seek succor from shame from the father of psychopaths,so they might never grow up and be accountable to their fellow beings and the actions they take..They will die crying like wretched children feeling the abuse they heaped upon the earth that once sustained them all.While others sob what more could I do,so exhausted from what they have done to try to help..Sad they see the spirit of wisdom of actualization, peace love that only asked the people to stop seeking experts to make excuses, leaders to tell them lies, kings to flatter and keep them like pets, and saviors to fix their problems for them.Wisdom asked that they grow up and know themselves,learn to get along, love each other and to care for this once beautiful yet wild dangerous place, and let it all be diverse and alive.Wisdom asked we take care of each other,we each develop an inner locus of control and we manage ourselves in a beautiful just way,and explore what is and what might be in a conscious way, We were to hold back the night,to fight for life to give love and to love, love..Instead it all vanishes like a tumbling empire a castle inverted,the ruins of a loveless world in the throes of a luciferian suicide..because mankind would not be honest and would not stop dominating those who just wanted to be.

[Chulanowa]

43. They think they will get rich

And that all their wads of dollars will do them an ounce of good in a nation that's crashed down to barter economy status - or that has had its wealth stripped and its currency reviled in international trade.

War profiteers are scavengers, and can only see daydreams of a big juicy dead cow, rather than teh starved, mummified carcass that it turns out to be.

[ryanmuegge]

57. They're far more rational than that. Security just doesn't matter to them much.

These people are highly intelligent, not idiots. You're fooling yourself if you think they believe in God or an afterlife or such silly, childish notions. This is all a rational calculation. They know the importance of oil to their own standard of living and do not see alternatives as being realistic. It's worth engaging in a massive war to gain control over oil reserves. Besides, it isn't their children or lives that are in in immediate danger. For the political and military elites, it's all worth rolling the dice.

I don't see it as a rational calculation, but they do. They are not idiots, though, and the after-life has nothing at all to do with it.

[bemildred]

3. Iran threatens missile attacks on US targets

ran threatened to fire long-range missiles at American targets in the Middle East yesterday as the war of words between Teheran and the West continued to escalate.

A senior commander of the Revolutionary Guard, the largest component of the Islamic republic's armed forces, chose this moment to outline the capability of his country's ballistic missiles.

---

President Nicolas Sarkozy has toughened France's approach towards Teheran, with Bernard Kouchner, his foreign minister, giving warning at the weekend that the world should "prepare for the worst and the worst is war".

Teheran responded yesterday by accusing Mr Sarkozy of being an American stooge.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/18/wiran118.xml

[undergroundpanther]

21. Can you say False Flag Operation?

To set up conditions the globalist thugs want? The PNAC?
The next "catalyzing event"?

How many people in the"mainstream" know America has "embedded" stooges in various countries and that the American media lies and is complicit in setting up propaganda just to get the American people to believe almost anything the so called leaders want ?
How many Americans are willing to really ponder the idea our government is not working for the people anymore it is part of a globalist network? Scared of looking too tin foil? What does it matter really ? Fearing tin foil is an excuse to NOT THINK about certain things. In effect you fence your own thoughts into the mainstream because other people fence themselves into the mainstream too and they might call you paranoid if you dare step one foot into exploring what you observe yourself that is not explained in the 'mainstream' and you seek other sources to try to understand what it is you suspect is happening,an alternative way to explain what you see going on? WTF kind of coward to think outside the box provided bullshit is THAT?

Afraid to consider that 9/11 was made on purpose,just like maybe this Iran's false flag situation that could,lead to another BusCo manufactured "catalyzing event like pearl harbor" ? Like a Nuke on DC or some other tragedy that will give Cheney the excuse to nuke Iran he has been itching for? An act of selfish globalist evil that will lead us further into corporate control and further into the kind of life none of us want for ourselves.The live no one except those fucking pigs in power who will because of their wealth and psychopathy and charisma will never face the consequences of their own bad personalities,rampant greed,insane lust for domination,all that zero sum bullshit games that keep the population divided, and their own unspeakable horrible criminal actions?

It isn't tin foil at all to suspect a criminal does criminal acts.
Even if the said criminals are in control of the society and country you inhabit even when they are not sending gestapo down your street, to crush a democracy to make an empire.Just because we could not stomach doing such things ourselves does not mean others in power are just as queasy as ourselves about doing such crimes.That's no excuse to blind ourselves in the mainstream.

http://www.vialls.com/oldntl/wecontrolamerica/calcm.html
http://www.thesimon.com/magazine/articles/canon_fodder/0961_fake_terrorism_coalition_best_friend.html
http://www.vialls.com/oldntl/wecontrolamerica/calcm.html

[EnricoFermi]

22. No need

Israel will just hit Iran like they did Syria, or we'll go in and hit something along the border "that was directly aiding terrorists and insurgents in Iraq." If Iran has Russian backing, you know they will strike back.

[ronnie624]

33. What else would they say?

How strange it is that Americans think that the Iranian people should or would bow and scrape like craven dogs before the demands and threats of the United States.

What makes Americans believe they have a right to strip other peoples of their dignity?

I think it is true that war and racism are inexorably linked. When racism dies, hopefully, the desire to dominate and brutalize others will die with it.

[undergroundpanther]

40. Yeah

But for racism to die ,sexism, gay bashing trans bashing,gender bashing,all forms of isms need to die. Including elitism,the haves and have nots, they must become have somes and equality and dignity for ALL must be accepted and not be given to a few.Classism of all kinds must die.Until then there will always be scapegoats the elitists will use to get thier way on us at our expense..It's Ethical compassionate and protective yet inclusive and emotionally mature anarchy or Empires.

For ethics to matter to us, the happiness and suffering of others must matter to us.

Ethically and Emotionally mature Anarchy:

“What we want . . .
is the complete destruction of the domination and exploitation of man by man;
we want men united as brothers by a consensus and desired solidarity,
all cooperating voluntarily for the wellbeing of all;
we want society to be constituted for the purpose of supplying everybody
with the means for achieving the maximum well-being,
the maximum possible moral and spiritual development;
we want bread, freedom, love and science--for everybody.”Errico Malatesta (1853-1932)

"Anarchism does not mean bloodshed; it does not mean robbery, arson, etc. These monstrosities are, on the contrary, the characteristic features of capitalism. Anarchism means peace and tranquility to all."
--August Spies, Haymarket anarchist.

http://a4a.mahost.org/reason.html

You can own everything you see
Sell your soul for complete control
Is that really what you need?

Or Empire:
they seek results, not understanding.
The behavioural engineers insist that they, and not the liberal "mollycoddlers" with their diehard concern for personal autonomy, are the true humanitarians. Indeed, with a little help from behaviour-modifying drugs, aversion therapies, brain electrodes and other body-bugging devices, they would cheerfully and cheaply free the human spirit of its deviant and antisocial impulses while emptying the prisons once and for all. In the process, they neglect to add, there is a good chance they would make the world a prison.
http://home.swipnet.se/allez/Links2.htm
http://aep.typepad.com/american_empire_project/2006/11/american_prison.html
The Bureau of Prisons expects to have 211,516 people in federal prison in the year 2009; between 1992 and 2000, the Drug Enforcement Agency seized more than $5.5 billion in assets.
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex.html

[dipsydoodle]

4. Can you just imagine if Putin had kept his trip quiet

and the The Boy Blunder had attacked at the wrong time.

[SlowDownFast]

44. Impossible. n/t

[Realityhack]

68. The response imposible is correct.

But even if it where I prefer not to think too hard about convoluded ways we can all die.

[Palladin]

5. Recent pessimistic stories about the inevitability of this attack

have apparently reached the Russians. The Cheney administration has been moving in the air assets for months now, for what they think
will be another happy cakewalk round of shock and awe. Nuke armed B-2 strategic bombers from the US are now stationed at Balad air base north of Baghdad.
The USAF has moved up a lot of planes to the Gulf state bases. Two carrier groups are on station, inside the Gulf, and only Admiral Fallon's protestations kept the third one out.
Admiral Fallon has been said to be against all this provocation, and determined that a catastrophic war with no bounds will not start on his watch. He's also said to be well aware of what Gen Petraeus is.....unprintable.......and told him so as his superior officer.
Senator Webb and Rep. Kucinich could do a great service to our country by getting Admiral Fallon's testimony before the public at a Congressional investigation into Cheney and the neocons.

[undergroundpanther]

24. And the US government

Will shred more of the social safety net to pay for the wars that will drown the baby in the bathtub that in turn will create the disasters that make them more wealth and give them more control.
America will face Another Katrina in a different form.

[BadgerKid]

7. "Check". USA's move is next. n/t

[undergroundpanther]

8. Catastrophe with a PURPOSE

Profits!!
Its mandate is to draw up elaborate "post-conflict" plans for up to twenty-five countries that are not, as of yet, in conflict. According to Pascual, it will also be able to coordinate three full-scale reconstruction operations in different countries "at the same time," each lasting "five to seven years."

Fittingly, a government devoted to perpetual pre-emptive deconstruction now has a standing office of perpetual pre-emptive reconstruction.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050502/klein

Such is insanity of the greed of Con Men with too much power and very little accountability who see everything as a zero sum game THEY MUST WIN..

[Bandit]

10. Profits in US Dollars which are quickly becoming worthless

The US Dollar has dropped forty percent in actual value since Bush*/Cheney took control. Those Profits are not worth near as much as they could have been with wiser leadership...

[EVDebs]

13. Oil is paid for in dollars still in Saudi Arabia. How long can that last ?

[undergroundpanther]

19. Not long

The globalists will make sure we all move right along.

The so-called ‘global economic system’ has nothing to do with competition, free markets or private enterprise; that’s just public relations gobbledygook. In practice, it is the world’s biggest extortion racket, wherein, the “Godfather”-- Uncle Sam-- holds a gun to the heads of his subjects and forces them to use our fiat-paper to purchase the oil that lubricates their economies.

Why would anyone accept a personal check from a nation that owes the bank more than $8.6 trillion dollars?

Why, indeed?

It’s blackmail, pure and simple; and yet, the Chinese, Japanese etc. continue to play along knowing full-well that we neither have the inclination nor the resources to pay them back in kind?

It’s madness.
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=20078



"Capitalism constantly erodes man and woman's being-in-nature (creature) and being-in-society (citizen) and, even as it drains them of life energy as workers, it moulds their consciousness around one role: that of consumer. Capitalism has many "laws of motion," but one of the most destructive as far as the environment goes is Say's law, which is that supply creates its own demand. Capitalism is a demand-creating machine that transforms living nature into dead commodities, natural wealth into dead capital.”
Needless to say, extension of citizenship plays no role in the US imperial order. In fact, US citizenship is jealously reserved for a very tiny minority of the world's population, entry into whose territory is tightly controlled. Subordinate populations are not to be integrated but kept in check either by force or the threat of the use of force or by a system of global or regional rules and institutions--the World Trade Organization, the Bretton Woods system, NATO--that are increasingly blatantly manipulated to serve the interests of the imperial center.
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=3920
Walden Bello, McPlanet Conference, Berlin, 27-29 June 2003
Of course, everyone in Washington already knew that doomsday was approaching. That’s the way the system was designed from the very beginning. It’s all part of the madcap scheme to “starve the beast” and transfer the nation’s wealth to a handful of western plutocrats. That’s explains why the Fed and the White House whirred along like two spokes on the same wheel; every policy calculated to thrust the country headlong toward disaster.


America cannot maintain its superpower status unless it continues to control the global economic system. That means the linkage between the dollar and oil must be preserved. The Bush troupe sees this as an existential issue upon which the future of America’s ruling class depends. By 2020, 60% of the world’s oil will come from the Middle East. Bush will do everything in his power to control the resources of the Caspian Basin, thereby expanding US dollar-hegemony and paving the way for a new American century
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15440.htm

[EVDebs]

34. But the doomsday arithmetic applies evenly to all

1 trillion barrels of world oil reserves / 85 million barrels per day consumption, soon to rise to 120 barrels per day with India and China consumption growth

approximates 20-30 years worth of oil left.

What replaces oil as the world's energy source ? Who will control that new source ? Hopefully it will be a plentiful and people-friendly-earth-friendly source ...hopefully much cheaper than nuc-u-lar.

Related DU thread,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x113175

and these two threads on energy are spots for optimism in an otherwise dreadfully bleak prognosis for the future:

How this 12" miracle tube coud halve our heating bills
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.html?in_article_id=481996&in_page_id=1965

Salt Water As Fuel ? Erie man thinks so
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm

[undergroundpanther]

41. Nothing will be extended to all

While the system of empire and control is in place.


For a top to be given the lives of ease they have, it needs a bottom with nothing,to exploit.
Until the system of hierarchy and authoritarianism is destroyed there will be no peace even WITH a new energy technology.

[EVDebs]

64. Grasshopper, limit the consumptive lifestyle and join the movement !

[undergroundpanther]

66. I do

I walk in a suburb built for cars I risk my ass doing so. and I hate it out here. I live on 600 bucks a month. Can't get too much more simple.

[undergroundpanther]

14. Dollars is not the only way

profits are counted.Our country is being run by mercenary merchants, globalists.Dollars don't mean to them what it means to US. Never forget that.

[acmavm]

25. Cheney has already moved his money out of the country and

invested in foreign currency.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/CheneysBettingonBadNews.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0&vv=410

[EVDebs]

38. Greedspan has already arbitraged to euros, want to bet on it ? nt

[madrchsod]

11. this is what could happen

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/nuclear-bunker-buster-rnep-animation.html

this is just one bomb and even if they do not use one of these bombs and used convectional weapons on radioactive sites across iran just what would be the difference?

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

12. More and more people attempt to warn Idiot Boy

as he stands there drooling and trying to get his eyes to uncross...

[LSK]

16. THIS IS COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY!!!

IRAN IS COOPERATING WITH THE IAEA!!!!!

FUCK!!!

http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/News/2007/bog121007.html

This is unreal!!!

[MetalCanuck]

17. Of course its not necessary, but for War criminals and oil people it is.

That doesn't matter, Neo-Cons want this war and will you stop
them? America is not a nation of laws anymore, YOU ARE RULED
by war criminals, big business and most of all the Federal
Reserve. What will you do? Our government in Canada is no
better because they are complicit  in the crimes.

[undergroundpanther]

20. Agreed!

The corporate criminals are globalist thugs now. And we citizens can't even stop working or stop hurting or give up preoccupations long enough or help each other in a real way to have the solidarity to mobilize a decent sized nationwide protest ,we dare not riot for our rights or the rights of other countries citizens to be treated like human beings,, let alone do the types of risky possibly get you hurt or killed tactics ,The scary things we may very well have to do before it is too late to do it,to fight these wealthy scum and if we are lucky hunt them and all their "business" and "family" associates,and "ties".. down to systematically remove them from power and confiscate all the wealth they have stolen..And return it to everyone.

[EnricoFermi]

26. We will stand up

There are a lot of people in this country that are going to stand up.

Their soldiers are citizens. I know a lot of them feel as strongly as I do.

If they want a war with Iran, we aren't going to sit back and let it happen. We are the critical component to their war machine and if they want to kill the world, we will turn on them. They underestimate us, and rightly so after setting up the war with Iraq.

I really don't think people are nearly as stupid and gullible as they assume, or perhaps I am overly optimistic.

[paparush]

48. And we haven't stood up yet, because . . . . . . . . . ????

4 years of war, 4000 soldiers dead, thousands more maimed. A million Iraqis killed? More left homeless. The Constitution in shreds. Mercenary armies killing civilians with impunity.

You think America will 'stand up' if we attack Iran? Dream on.

The M$M will spin, spin, spin.

W will lie, lie, lie.

And Joe Six pack will just keep flipping channels.

[undergroundpanther]

69. makes me want to cry

America is the land of the abuser, the lonely, the addicted, the cowards, the home of the broken heart fearful mind and subjugated will in a gilded cage.

[EVDebs]

35. Didn't matter that Saddam had eliminated his WMDs either ...

But you've gotta admit, the Iranian mullahs are their own worst enemies, not the world's 12 million Jews.

[McCamy Taylor]

27. The Pentagon will not comply with an order to attack. They will run to GE/NBC

and alert the country. They will not back up Israel, should that country be foolish enough to go first.

It is possible that Cheney and the Neo-Cons think that they have a few military commanders in their pocket, and that they will try to coordinate things so that their chosen few will be on duty at the same time, allowing them to launch an attack. However, the rest of the Pentagon knows damn well who is with Cheney and who is with the United States (the CIA will have told them). And the chain of command is a military one, which will allow the Pentagon to pull out any of Cheney's minions at the last minute.

The best that Bush-Cheney can hope for is that they will be able to sneak through some bombs to be delivered by plane or ship, before the collective fist of the Democratic Congress and the Pentagon and the American people and the world community comes smashing down on them.

And then we should see the impeachment hearings begin.

Indeed, as pissed off as the Pentagon is, I can well imagine that they might lead Cheney to believe that they are going along with plans for a military action in Iran, just to lure him into making this fatal mistep which will force Congressional Democrats to do what they should have done all along.

[EVDebs]

36. What if Bush publicly offered to open an embassy in Tehran ?

What Iranians Least Expect
What if Bush publicly offered to open an embassy in Tehran?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14975333/site/newsweek/

[SayWhatYo]

52. That would be awesome... but not going to happen.

While I personally doubt things are going to end up as bad as people are predicting, and definitely hope this admin doesn't do anything to cause more problems, I really really doubt they will do anything to actually help the situation.

[307 MMS]

50. Scenario

That's a great scenario. Having loaded nukes on B-52s for 4 years in the USAF, I seriously hope the true patriots come out of the woodwork and get these fuckers in handcuffs and orange jumpsuits...right where they belong!!!

[lovuian]

28. WWIII is coming how much warning do we need France and now

Russia... why do I say WWIII because China will not sit back

Taiwan is toast while we are busy with Iran
China will confiscate Taiwan

Russia cringes because its in the middle of it all

Europe has to be cringing over this but they supported Bush now they will pay the price

Nuclear War isn't going to solve anything they will find that out

We are going to need a Bigger Army and I guess the Dems will be calling for a draft soon

and the sad truth is Israel will be bombed and destroyed even with this scenario

do they really come out ahead here???

[Taverner]

42. Russia sits back while all the oil is tied up in WWIII, and makes a killing

At the end, Russia will emerge like we did after WWII, the only place left with oil, an economy and industry.

Meanwhile, we go back to being a backwater on the world stage.

[Strelnikov_]

54. Yep. And China will take a pass because they plan on swooping

in after the mess settles down to tie up contracts that will no longer be going to western companies/governments.

China imports ~2.5 Mbbl/dy, about 1/2 of their consumption, and being a totalitarian government will be more than willing to tell its 'citizens' to suck it up. We, on the other hand, import ~14 Mbbl/dy, financed by money borrowed from the Chinese among others we would be bidding against on what remains of the worlds oil export market.

I would much rather be in their position when the Persian Gulf energy goes offline.

And Russia, as you allude to, becomes the worlds leading economic power overnight.

No, an attack by Iran by the western powers will be only elevate China and Russia over the long term. Don't understand why more people don't realize that a US attack on Iran is in the interest of both these countries.

As they say, if the enemy is destroying themselves . . .

[Taverner]

61. People who want to attack Iran are thinking like redneck hicks

That whole "You're stupid I'm gonna punch you" rather than thinking things out. We're not too far off from the single-minded puritans that spawned us.

I actually wonder if Bush and Carlyle are planning some big move to Russia or China while the US goes into the toilet, and this is all a part of their plan.

[scarface2004]

29. i say we lose maybe 10.....

20 million tops!!!

[Strelnikov_]

55. . . . depending on the breaks. n/t

[daleo]

62. Not saying we won't get our hair messed up a bit...

[Realityhack]

70. Thats well within acceptable losses n/t

[whistle]

30. Do you think Green Zone would be the target plus the new U.S. Embassy building in Iraq?

[debbierlus]

32. This Administration is NUTS & it is time to DEMAND their removal

We are passively watching a lunatic rogue regime provoke WWIII. I am calling my reps now, & demand they SPEAK OUT NOW against this war. This is nuts & it is terrifying. If anyone is crazy enough to get us into a nuclear holocaust, the Bush administration IS IT!

[SlowDownFast]

39. "Losyukov was asked if Putin might be in danger from U.S. attacks if he attends."

That's just a stupid question that could've been answered with a simple "Pfffft!"

[bushmeister0]

45. The phony Syrian/North Korean bomb story

is just the beginning of the run-up to this next war. Interestingly, it appears the NYT has been again suckered into believing this tripe.

"The Sept. 6 attack by Israeli warplanes inside Syria struck what Israeli intelligence believes was a nuclear-related facility that North Korea was helping to equip, according to current and former American and Israeli officials."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/world/asia/18korea.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin

yeah, right. This nonsense is coming from the 'Iran Press Service' a the PR arm of the National Council of Resistance of Iran, the political wing of the Iranian dissident terrorist group Mujehadin el-Khalq (MEK)

See the rest at http://imnotworthy.blogspot.com

[ooglymoogly]

46. This is a clear warning....yet neocon Bloomberg reads.....Russia "says" in'at innocous...

Its all in the framing...should have read Russia warns....to get any traction or for anyone to take notice...but then the press speaks in the new language of "newspeak" Now they can drop it once they have reported "Russia says". 30 to 45 years ago it would have been wall to wall but that was before Murka got lulled into stupidity. Everybody would have been ringing their hands and running around redecorating their bomb shelters on such a note.

[demo dutch]

47. Duh!!

[truebrit71]

49. This is a CLEAR warning to the chickenhawks at the WH that if the bombs start falling in Iran...

...Russia will not stand idly by...

I have been saying this for months now, Russia and China simply will NOT allow an unprovoked attack against Iran go unanswered...

[superkia]

56. I think the world knows the U.S. is trying to bully its way around the world.

The other countries in the world need to take a stand and stop the U.S. from invading everyone for money and power, who gave us the rights to the world?

[followthemoney]

58. The U.S. is waging nuclear war against Iraq right now.

If the depleted uranium dumped in Iraq were dumped in a U.S. city there would be no doubt that the war was nuclear.

Dirty bomb thoughts was the unfounded charge against Padilla.

DU just doesn't have the blast. And the blast is overrated anyway. The U.S. dropped 850 Hiroshima bomb blast equivalents in Vietnam over 7 years and still lost.

Radiation is the Kill that keeps on Killing.

[Megahurtz]

63. So Russia Will Not Sit Back And Watch,

and they are making it known. Who can blame them? :shrug:

So are the NeoCon Maniacs running the U.S. still going to be that incredibly fucking stupid???

The really fucked up thing about it is, if they are going to be that fucking stupid and
drag the rest of us into their Warmongering consequences they'll all be holed up
safe in their fucking Bunkers while the rest of us are Sitting Ducks!!!:mad:
God I just hate them!:argh:

[Clanfear]

65. What exactly are they going to do?

There's not much militarily or economically they could do to intevene in the situation.

I think they needed to make this statement in an effort to hopefully provide some element of sense to what seems to be going on, but if people think they are somehow going to make a stand against this with more than words I think they will be very disappointed.