US suffers 34 casualities in Iraq in one day

[Barrett808]

Source: KUNA

BAGHDAD, Aug 23 (KUNA) -- A US soldier was killed and four were injured in armed clashes west of Baghdad, bringing the total to 16 American soldiers killed and 18 injured yesterday, a Multi-National Force (MNF) statement said on Thursday.

In a statement, the MNF said a US soldier was killed and four were injured in the armed clashes.

Last night the US military confirmed the killing of 15 American soldiers when, 14 of whom died in a helicopter crash north of Iraq.

Eleven US soldiers were injured when two suicide car bomb attacks targeted a coalition post north of Baghdad.

Since the start of war in 2003, 3,723 US soldiers were killed, 65 of whom died this month.

Read more: http://www.kuna.net.kw/NewsAgenciesPublicSite/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=1836224&Language=en

[rzemanfl]

1. The term "casualty" now seems to mean killed, not killed,

wounded or missing like it is supposed to.

[frogcycle]

3. it still means all those

its just lazy stupid reporters who don't understand who mis-state it all the time

this report has it right

[rzemanfl]

11. Agreed. But the misuse of the term is so prevalent that I thought

that number of our people were dead when I first looked at your post.

[frogcycle]

17. yeah, I panicked too. I already knew of 15, but thought another copter had gone down.

I always use KIA to distinguish from the collective KIA/WIA/MIA "casualties"

[rzemanfl]

22. Whatever you call it, the number is going to soar when we try to

pull our people and their equipment out. The Iraqis aren't blowing up all those bridges because they like boat rides.

[daleo]

2. Bush used the Viet Nam analogy

Certainly these seem like Viet Nam scale casualties.

[TomInTib]

4. I'm pretty sure the cas ratio is greater in the ME.

If we had as many boots on the ground now as we did then, I am sure the rate would be much higher than SE Asia.

[frogcycle]

6. yes and no

troop strength peaked in '68 at 540,000; 3.375 times Iraq.

16 times 3.375 is 54; so the number yesterday is above the average/day for all of 1968. But that is far from a valid comparison.

Worst monthly average number/day in Iraq remains April '04 at 4.67/day

I think the worst single day was this January, with another helicopter crash. As I recall it was 25 or 26. Don't know whether there was a single day in VN with that high a ratio, but single days don't mean much anyway.

No, as horrifying as this one is, VN was much bigger numbers.

[Middle finga]

10. I'm sure if you compare the casualties we suffered in the first 4 years

of the vietnam war with the 4 years in Iraq, I would say Iraq causalities are being inflicted on a much faster pace. I'm pretty sure if you give the Iraqi resistance a few more years of battlefield training they'll be reaching those vietnam numbers. If the iraqis get their hands on a steady supply of accurate anti aircraft weapons it's a wrap.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. Actually that is unlikely.

The terrain and the political situation are vastly different. Vietnam was ideal for widespread well organized guerilla warfare with lush rainforest regions providing lots of cover from air attack and observation and making pursuit very difficult, and the cold war allowed for safe havens and continuous re-supply from openly friendly great powers and their surrogates. Iraq is not a great terrain for hiding, other than in urban areas, and there is no cold war standoff that allows for a friendly great power to openly back the insurgency.

[krispos42]

18. True, but...

We don't have the numbers on the ground that we need. And there are a lot of friendly powers not-so-secretely backing the insurgency.

And, of course, we keep losing billions of dollars IN CASH and hundreds of thousands of weapons in Iraq. Not to mention the arms we keep giving our supposed allies. The ones that shoot with us in daylight and shoot at us in moonlight?

And what may be worst of all is that the insurgency is fragmented badly, with each side fighting each other as well as us. Not only are we under attack by the Iraqis, the Iraqis are under attack by the Iraqis!


The terrain is different, the politics are different, yet it still spells QUAGMIRE!

[frogcycle]

15. I don't see any point in trying to make a numbers game out of it

both were/are horrific, unnecessary slaughter of thousands.

The assertion that "we are approaching VN numbers" can be defended or attacked, depending how you wish to compare it. The rate per day per soldier in theatre is a measurement, to be sure, and yesterday's 15 is in the general ballpark of the worst year in VN, 1968, when 16,513 were killed. Thats about 45/day - but for 365 days straight. So far yesterdays number is an isolated spike. Similar days have happened before, generally due to helicopter losses. We are running at about 3/day in the past several months. That number has crept up fractionally over the course of the occupation.

VN started out slowly. There were only 1864 killed in the first five years. It was the eleventh year of our involvement that the total in theatre and the total KIA reached the total we now have for Iraq. Once VN got to that level it continued building to 500k in theatre by year 13. Yesterday's helicopter crash makes a one-day spike that is one third that. But then I spot-checked and found five spikes of about 75 during those two weeks. So you can compare whatever you want to whatever you want and make whatever claims you want.


Per person in theatre, yesterday's one-day number is about the same as VN peak . Per US population, its not. If you were to list all the names in the newspaper, as they did back then, VN takes more column space. If you wanted to list all the names on a wall, VN needs more granite. Per year, per month, per person in theatre, per US population.

I am not diminishing the losses we incur every day. I would not be maintaining my KIA "virtual wall" website if I felt that way. At the same time, having lived through VN and lost friends there, I have to challenge a comment that seems to diminish THAT horror.

Of course if this thing were to go on as long as VN did, and if we were to put 500,000 troops in there, the deaths would go up - at least initially. I don't think we're in a competition to match VN's record for stupidity though.


* http://www.thinkingpeace.com/pages/arts2/arts174.html

[onenote]

21. not if you adjust for troop levels.

The build up in Vietnam was slow at first...growing from a few hundred troops in 1959 to around 23,300 in 1964. During that period, where we not fully engaged, there were around 2260 KIA. Starting in 1965, troop levels jumped to 184,300, then to 385300 in 1966, 485,600 in 1967, peaking at 536100 in 1968. Then they began to drop off, to 475200in 1969, 334600 in 1970, 156800 in 1971 and 24200 in 1972. During those years, the number of KIA ranged from 6100 in 1966 up to 16597 in 1968. BUt even in 1972, when troop levels were at 69,000 by April and down to 24000 by the end of the year, there were still 641 KIA, which is a much higher rate than we've experienced in Iraq (where troop levels have been in the 130,000 to 160,000 range.

Like others, I'm not trying to downplay the horror and loss we're suffering in Iraq. Just correcting the record.

[TomInTib]

13. Well, at least they didn't get me.

Just a few nicks.

[frogcycle]

5. still a long way to go

1968 was highest number KIA: 16511

that's 45/day for an entire year.

WIA was 87388 (240/day); 176 MIA

actually the year was not evenly distributed, so there were spikes much higher than these numbers. I am pretty sure I recall several days over 100 killed.

[Jackpine Radical]

7. Those numbers are awfully close.

I was going to estimate 50 KIA/day in '67-68, and abut 550,000 in-country at the highest point.

[L0oniX]

8. "Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." - Henry Kissinger

I know you've seen this before. Don't let your friends and children die for these ass carrots.

[Rydz777]

9. It's simply sad. More deaths while the politicians (Warner today)

play footsy with reality. If the Democratic Congress does not get us out of this debacle before March 2009, the new Democratic President will have all the oxygen taken out of the beginning of the new administration while wrestling with the mess. Meanwhile, of course, more are dying and being maimed. Out NOW is both the morally right and politically wise policy.

[bamacrat]

12. This is just a drop in the bucket if we get into a fight with Iran.

If that were to happen I would expect at least 10x that many.

[frogcycle]

16. now THAT would be VN-like

[Supersedeas]

19. Nothing to see here--the WH has a report to polish, feed them Lohan/Richie

[bdamomma]

20. and they are bringing out more propaganda in those

stupid commercials to continue this madness, sickening absolutely sickening going into a country that did not do anything to us, for *co's filthy greed.

I hope * and dick have all hell to pay for their psychotic madness.