US and Israel in $30bn arms deal

[dipsydoodle]

Source: BBC News

US Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns has signed a deal that will provide Israel with $30bn (£14.8bn) of military aid over the next 10 years

The Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, has said the aid will preserve his country's military advantage over other countries in the Middle East.

The new military aid package represents a 25% increase from present levels.

The money must be used to purchase military equipment from the US defence industry, although Israel will also be permitted to use 26.3% to buy equipment from local companies.



edited to the correct update.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6948981.stm

---

BBC are in the process of updating this - the deal is now signed.

Note the last para. above

[Tyler Durden]

1. STOP! STOP! STOP! STOP! STOP! STOP! STOP!

Just when the fuck is this going to STOP???

[Tesha]

8. Never. Not until America as we knew it is dead and gone. (NT)

[Tyler Durden]

9. The day the Nazi died.

we're taught that after the war
the nazis vanished without a trace
but battalions of fascists
still dream of a master race
the history books they tell of their defeat in 45
why did they all come out of the woodwork
on the day the nazi died

they say the prisoner of spandau
was a symbol of defeat
whilst hess remained imprisoned
then the fascists they were beat
so the promise of an aryan world would never materialize
so why did they all come out of the woodwork
on the day the nazi died

the world is ridden by maggots
the maggots are getting fat
they're making a tasty meal
of all the bosses and bureaucrats
they're taking over the board rooms
and they're fat and full of pride
and they all came out of the woodwork
on the day the nazi died

so if you meet with these historians
i'll tell you what to say
tell them that the nazis never really went away
they're out there burning houses down
and they're peddling racist lies
and we'll never rest again
until every nazi dies

Chumbawumba

[Javaman]

19. When war is no longer profitable. nt

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. I wonder what the platform of our party says about this?

The Democratic Party is fundamentally committed to the security of our ally Israel
and the creation of a comprehensive, just and lasting peace between Israel and her neighbors. Our
special relationship with Israel is based on the unshakable foundation of shared values and a mutual
commitment to democracy, and we will ensure that under all circumstances, Israel retains the qualitative
edge for its national security and its right to self-defense. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and should
remain an undivided city accessible to people of all faiths.

Under a Democratic Administration, the United States will demonstrate the kind of resolve to end
the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that President Clinton showed. We will work to transform the Palestinian
Authority by promoting new and responsible leadership, committed to fighting terror and promoting
democracy. We support the creation of a democratic Palestinian state dedicated to living in peace and
security side by side with the Jewish State of Israel. The creation of a Palestinian state should resolve
the issue of Palestinian refugees by allowing them to settle there, rather than in Israel. Furthermore, all
understand that it is unrealistic to expect that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and
complete return to the armistice lines of 1949. And we understand that all final status negotiations must
be mutually agreed.

http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf

[The Stranger]

32. Posting to the "platform of the party" really begs the question that was posed.

And, in any event, sending $30 billion in war machines to Israel for fighting over the land (as opposed to "full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949") actually CONTRAVENES what the "platform of the party" specifically states and seeks, in any event.

Thanks for playing.

[mallard]

61. Re: don't agree it's about just self-defense

You wrote:

"Our special relationship with Israel is based on the unshakable foundation of shared values and a mutual commitment to democracy, and we will ensure that under all circumstances, Israel retains the qualitative edge for its national security and its right to self-defense."

This kind of imagery is a big part of the problem, because people don't know enough about the lackings of genuine dignity, and the propaganda machine involves many who know much better, but still play team ball out the side-door.

[subsuelo]

2. against the will of the American people

[JonathanInTelAviv]

11. False

Actually, Americans overwhelmingly support Israel.

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=26785

[Mend]

15. wrong spin on the poll...ask people if they want to send their children to

fight in the Middle East and ask them if they want to send their tax money to Israel. I doubt you would get much support in that poll.

[Bushfire]

16. my thoughts exactly, well said

when do we put America first, and fix our crumbling infrastructure and levies; not to mention New Orleans?

[Megahurtz]

22. Yes.

When do we put America first??? :grr:

[LeftishBrit]

23. Your children- and some of ours - are fighting in the Middle East for Bush and oil...

not for Israel.

Let's not blame Israel for everything the way Bush blames Iran and Iraq!

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Megahurtz]

34. Triple Bullshit Here!

:woohoo:

[JonathanInTelAviv]

39. Can you prove it?

That *would* piss me off.

[Mend]

42. Joseph Lieberman first ran for the senate as an ANTI-WAR candidate

Vietnam....war was no good then but suddenly is the answer. BULLSHIT.

[LeftishBrit]

49. Not quite...

Lieberman WAS against the Vietnam war as a young man. However, he ran for the Senate in 1988, long after the Vietnam War was over. He was by then clearly hawkish on foreign policy, and ran to the *right* of his Republican opponent, with the backing of the right-wing journal "National Review".

[Mend]

51. he was elected to the Connecticut Senate as an ANTI-WAR candidate....

during the Vietnam war (1970). And by the way, he never served his country in the military but the rest of us are not surprised by his cowardice. Just another chicken hawk...none of his kids serve either. ps...I am twice a veteran.

[LeftishBrit]

52. Did ANY Republican hawk serve in a war, except McCain?

And Blair has two sons of military age, and you can bet they're not going to Iraq!

And too many young lefties end up as right-wing hawks; there are plenty of them in our government too!

[LeftishBrit]

48. Well, Bush officially started the war...

our darling Blair collaborated with him of course.

So yes, we can prove that it was Bush.

As regards the importance of controlling oil in the Middle East - well, it's harder to 'prove', but it appears to be a strong factor, and some Republicans have been fairly open about the importance of the oil issue in their concerns about the Middle East. Ted Stevens gave a speech very recently (reported somewhere here) about Iran, where he expressed his concerns about the problems with a major oil-producing country.

There are a number of other issues involved, such as misinformation (lies) about WMD; plain old imperialism; and Bush having a personal grudge against Saddam, going back to Gulf War 1 and Saddam having 'tried to kill his father'.

ETA: Bush and his war piss me off ROYALLY too.

[JonathanInTelAviv]

57. That's not the issue

The issue was: "Your children- and some of ours - are fighting in the Middle East for Bush and oil..."

My point was that I don't know of Israelis fighting for Bush or for oil.

[LeftishBrit]

66. Ah - sorry - that was confusing

My first reply was to another poster, not to you, so I wasn't referring to Israeli troops. I was saying, "Your (American) and some of our (British) children are fighting for Bush and oil (not for Israel)."

[Megahurtz]

76. No but you'll gladly take Bush's money.

:rofl:

I'm sorry but that's just fucking funny!

[badgervan]

85. Lieberman

... and the neocons want a permanent American military presence in the Middle East to protect the state of Israel. Oil is secondary, although also important. But the neos and Joe ( and Joe's wife, who never gets mentioned ) have the safety and survival of Israel as their primary reason for acting as they do.
I've been going over the movers and shakers in this administration, also the known neocons. Very few non-Jewish folks in these groups. I've always admired the balls of Israel, but I must warn you that the former blind support that the American people have always had for you is shrinking by the day now. And this huge "loan", made while our infrastructure needs upgrading, 45 million of us don't have any health care, we are losing good jobs and pensions, etc. - this ain't helping your cause.
Do not hit me with the all-purpose "damn jew hater" crap, please. I admire Israel tremendously. As an American, a veteran, I just put my own country ahead of any others, and always will. And right now, we do not need to be bleeding our treasury on aid that is, in the real sense, unneeded.

[JonathanInTelAviv]

38. Why should I?

Israel has *never* asked for American troops.

As for tax money, I challenge you to name some federal programs that enjoy as much support among the US population (68%) as Israel.

I can wait.

[subsuelo]

62. support for Israel

Is not the same as support for extrajudicial killings, indiscriminate bombings of civilian populations, land theft, and other war crimes

[Megahurtz]

68. No but Israel asks for MONEY.

Our money. :grr: And lot's of it.
As for Tax money, seriously what the Hell are you talking about??? :wtf:
I certainly can't name any Federal Programs that enjoy any support
from the U.S. population because there are NONE.

I have news for you, we have no Federal Programs to "enjoy" in this Country anymore
because our Tax money is bled dry. It's called "we pay Taxes and get nothing in return"
so what is there to "support"?

We're totally on our own here in the U.S.

Oh yeah, I'm sure that the people of Israel are enjoying plenty of support
for their Federal Programs funded by the U.S.A.!

We in the U.S. do without while Israel enjoys preferential treatment.
So herein lies the problem.:think:

[0007]

18. On the positive side, it should be noted that there is Christian

reaction in America against the "end times" advocates of Israel who are allied with the neo-conservatives. "While there has always been a mainstream group of Christian fundamentalists who have loudly and consistently questioned the very concept of "dispensationalism," arguing with the pro Israel advocates over the idea that the modern day state of Israel constitutes the Israel of the Bible -- a thesis that they reject -- this group has been largely low-key, fearing the wrath of the American media which is quick to charge critics of Israel with "anti-Semitism."

[seemslikeadream]

46. U.S. Funding Armed Groups to Overthrow Iranian Government:

:hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1603806


http://www.aina.org/news/20070317151234.htm

BERKELEY, United States (IPS) -- Author of the upcoming book "The Iran Agenda: the Real Story of U.S. Policy and the Middle East Crisis", due for release in September from Polipoint Press, Reese Erlich recently spent three weeks investigating Kurdish resistance organisations in Iran and Iraq's Kurdish region. He tells IPS that "the United States is officially funding armed groups to overthrow the Islamic government" in Tehran.

In an interview with IPS's Omid Memarian, Erlich, who has covered the Middle East as a freelance journalist for the past 20 years and co-wrote 2003's "Target Iraq", says that Washington's strategy is primarily focused on media propaganda -- such as websites and satellite television and radio stations -- but also includes covert military training.

The Iranian government has itself accused opposition groups of destabilising the border region, and recently warned Kurdish Iraqi officials to expel armed bandits and anti-Iranian groups from their province, or face military incursions.

IPS: What do the Kurdish opposition groups look like? What constitutes the daily life of these small groups who are fighting an established government?

Reese Erlich (RE): The Kurdish compounds are like small villages. They have barracks for the single men peshmurga. Political cadres live with their families in small homes, much like Iraqi Kurds in that area. They have meeting halls and offices. PJAK's conditions are much more like guerrillas, living in the cold mountains with more rudimentary huts.

I described one PJAK leader as the "very model of a modern guerrilla general." He has a cell phone, internet access and satellite TV. The women guerrillas claim they only watch news programmes, but I got them to admit they also like movies with Brad Pitt and Mel Gibson.

IPS: Is the U.S. support limited to media or does it include other activities, such as military operations?

RE: Secretly, U.S. intelligence services are also sponsoring armed attacks within Iran. I discovered the U.S. and Israeli support for PJAK in Kurdistan and from so-called former MEK members. The U.S. asks a Mujahedin-e Khalq Organisation (MEK or MKO) member if they have left and if they support democracy. If they answer yes, they can be trained and armed for clandestine actions inside Iran.

Report: U.S. Sponsoring Kurdish Guerilla Attacks Inside Iran
Posted by seemslikeadream on Thu Aug-16-07 08:53 PM

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/27/1356250

AMY GOODMAN: We are going to turn now to Reese Erlich, an independent radio producer and journalist, who reports on Iran, in the latest issue of Mother Jones, and is the author of the forth-coming book The Iran Agenda: the Real Story of U.S. Policy in the Middle East Crisis. I spoke with him yesterday in San Francisco and asked what effect the Security Council sanctions will have on Iran.

REESE ERLICH: I think the newest U.N. sanctions were clearly sponsored and passed only because of U.S. pressure. They don't do a lot to actually effectively impact Iran that much. They increase the freezing of some Iranian individuals' assets, a few other things. They also, it might be noted, reiterate the U.N. call to make all of the Middle East nuclear free and that includes Israel. And I'm sure that's not something the Bush administration is going to trumpet when it talks about those latest U.N. sanctions. Again, I think in the wider context, the sanctions that passed by the U.N. are part of an escalating effort to pressure Iran to basically toe the line for U.S. interests in the area.

AMY GOODMAN: In the latest edition of Mother Jones, you have a piece where you talk about the Iranian/Kurdish guerrillas. Explain who and where they are.

REESE ERLICH: In Northern Iraq there are three Iranian Kurdish groups that operate and that have compounds and do political organizing. Keep in mind that the Kurdish people of Iran face a great deal of oppression, they're not allowed to learn in their own language in the schools. They face discrimination. They're a great deal poorer than the rest of Iran. So the Kurdish people have very legitimate grievances against the government in Tehran. The U.S. has taken advantage of that.

In the case of one group, the P.K.K. or the Kurdistan Workers Party and they are along with Israel sponsoring them to carry out guerrilla raids inside Iran and its part of a much wider plan by the United States to foment discontent and actual terrorist activities by ethnic Iranians in various parts of Iran. And when I was in northern Iraq, I was able to determine that that kind of activity is going on from Iraqi soil under the Kurdish controlled areas of Iraq, into Iran.

AMY GOODMAN: How did you get to the guerrilla camp?

REESE ERLICH: Well, it's quite interesting, two cell phone calls and a drive up into the mountains. One of the arguments by the Kurdish regional government of Iraq and of the United States is that they can't find these guerrillas because it's so inhospitable territory that no one can find them. They're operating from secret bases, et cetera. But all I did was drive up into the closest Iraqi village and asked the local driver and they say oh, yeah, which of the guerrilla camp do you want to see and we'll take you right up to them. So they are very easy to find.

AMY GOODMAN: So now, explain the difference. Explain the P.K.K. and the P.J.A.K.

REESE ERLICH: The P.K.K. is the mother organization if you will. It was founded by Oshelan, the Turkish Kurd who is now in jail, charged with terrorism. The P.K.K. by the way, is listed on the United States State Department List of Terrorist Organizations. The P.J.A.K., the Party for Free Life of Kurdistan is the Iranian affiliate. The P.K.K., about two years ago split into four parties in each of the countries where is the Kurds live. In Syria, Iraq, Turkey and Iran. So the P.J.A.K. is the Iranian affiliate. Basically they're still part of the same organization. In order to get to the P.J.A.K. interviews that I did, you had to go through two P.K.K. based camps with walkie-talkies and soldiers and guerillas and so on. For all intents and purposes they're the same thing.



Reese Erlich: The US and Iran - The Real Story
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6906119868285777096&q=Reese+Erlich&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0


Foreign correspondent Reese Erlich, author of the soon-to-be-published book, "The Iran Agenda: The Real Story of US Policy and the Middle ... all » East Crisis," speaks about his recent trips to Iran researching his book.

Reese Erlich's history in journalism goes back 39 years. He first worked as a staff writer and research editor for Ramparts, an investigative reporting magazine published in San Francisco from 1963 to 1975. Today he works as a full-time print and broadcast, freelance reporter. He reports regularly for CBC, ABC (Australia), Radio Deutche Welle and National Public Radio. His articles appear in the San Francisco Chronicle, St. Petersburg Times and the Dallas Morning News. His television documentaries have aired on PBS stations nationwide.

Erlich’s book, Target Iraq: What the News Media Didn't Tell You, co-authored with Norman Solomon, became a best seller in 2003. His latest book, The Iran Agenda: the Real Story of U.S. Policy and the Middle East Crisis, will be in bookstores in October 2007. (Forward by Robert Scheer.)

His magazine articles have appeared in San Francisco Magazine, California Monthly, California Lawyer, Mother Jones, The Progressive, The Nation, AARP’s Segunda Juventud, and he has worked as a consultant to National Geographic.

In June 2005 he traveled to Iran with Norman Solomon and Sean Penn. Erlich’s photos accompanied Penn’s 5-part series about the trip that appeared in the SF Chronicle and in an A&E documentary of Penn.

In 2004 Erlich’s radio special “Children of War: Fighting, Dying, Surviving,” won a Clarion Award presented by the Association for Women in Communication and second and third place from the National Headliner Awards. His article about the U.S. use of depleted uranium ammunition was voted the eighth most-censored story in America for 2002-2003 by Project Censored at Sonoma State University. In 2002 his radio documentary, “The Russia Project,” hosted by Walter Cronkite, won the Depth Reporting Prize for Broadcast Journalism awarded by the Northern California Chapter of the Society of Professional Journalists. «

[0007]

53. LOL! Looks like the same ol' same ol' ignorance is starting up....

:hi:
'Tis a shame that Americans know little about Mordechai Vanunu - The Israel Nuclear Scientist.

[seemslikeadream]

54. : But he had a message written on the palm of his hand

Mordechai Vanunu (Nick Laird-Clowes, Gilbert Gabriel)

The living word that Mordechai heard
That rang loud inside his head
Wasn't loud enough to stop the bomb

With repression ringing out again
From South Africa to the shores of this land
That wouldn't stop resistance holding on

Mordechai Vanunu
Said "Israel, don't drop the bomb"
Mordechai Israel

Mordechai Vanunu
Keep your resistance strong
Mordechai Israel

Nuclear research station underground
The written word that Mordechai found
All printed out in black and white

With enough Plutonium to build the bomb
And statements to the contrary not withdrawn
Mordechai took it to the world outside

Mordechai Vanunu
Had his picture printed by the press
And his story told outloud

Mordechai Vanunu
Was exiled in a world of emptiness
Because he told the truth outloud

In England streets of London town
Mordechai went underground
Over fear of threats upon his life

He met a girl called Cindy on the streets of Soho
Seemed so sympathetic, he broke down, let it go
Then he flew with her to Rome

Mordechai Mordechai
Wasn't alone when he discovered that
Cindy worked for the government

Mordechai Mordechai
Was chained up and attacked
By agents of his government

He woke up on a boat
All shot up with dope
Missing, presumed dead, living just inside his head

Until he turned up in Tel Aviv
On matters of state security
In the back of a police van
But he had a message written on the palm of his hand

And it said
Vanunu, Mordechai
Kidnapped from Italy 30-9-86
On flight A504

Mordechai Vanunu
Wore a special helmet when he next appeared in court
Just in case he tried to talk

The living word that Mordechai heard
The living word that Mordechai heard
That rang loud inside his head
Wasn't loud enough

He's in a cell three metres wide
TV cameras on all sides
24 hours of electric light
Nowhere left to hide
Don't give up the fight
Don't give up the fight

Mordechai Vanunu
Said "Israel, don't drop the bomb"
Mordechai Israel

Mordechai Vanunu
Keep your resistance strong
Mordechai Israel


An illegal interview with Mordechai Vanunu - Part I

An illegal interview with Mordechai Vanunu - Part II

An illegal interview with Mordechai Vanunu - Part III

[Jim Sagle]

87. Piece of shit song commemorating a piece of shit.

[Megahurtz]

21. Right.

:eyes:

I call Bullshit.

[Jim Sagle]

86. Bull fucking shit.

[madrchsod]

3. 30 billion that could be used to fix OUR country....

WE will NEVER see a dime of that repaid. WE are giving 30 BILLION to a country that can turn any country in the middle east into glass...

[Norrin Radd]

4. What a monumental waste.

[IndianaGreen]

5. Money down the toilet to maintain the status quo

Both parties are subservient lapdogs of the Israel Lobby.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JonathanInTelAviv]

40. No

The $3 billion the US gives to Israel annually is equal to about 2% of Israel's GDP, and about .03% of the US's GDP.

For that srael gets military aid we can use; the US shows its support for a close ally which is a vibrant democracy in a bad neighborhood; and a few small segments of the US population get an excuse to bash Israel some more.

It's win-win-win.

[Norrin Radd]

47. Any of our tax money spent on killing machines is a waste,

regardless of the recipient. Please don't try to categorize my comment as anything other than what is stated within.

Oh, and welcome to DU.

[Megahurtz]

69. Yes.

The 3 Billion given annually to Israel is a financial loss to the Citizens of the U.S.

Don't you get it? :banghead:

There are millions of people here that cannot get treated by Doctors
because the people have NO MONEY and there are no Social Programs here to help anyone
unlike Israel which enjoys FREE Universal Health Care from cradle to grave.
There is rampant poverty and millions of people losing their jobs and homes everyday.
All while the People of Israel live in the lap of luxury on our money!

I say Bullshit. It's a Win-Lose and we in the U.S. are the losers.

[Nihil]

7. Oh come on ... take it in context will you?

It's only $3 billion a year of US taxpayer money going from the only
country in decades to bomb civilians thousands of miles from their own
land to the only country in the Middle East that has nuclear weapons.

Why you hate AIPAC for their freedom?

[Tyler Durden]

10. It is true: we become the thing we hate.

They have hated the fascists long enough to take on some of their character traits.

That's why I never maintain the energy required to hate for any protracted period of time. It slides off into indifference as to whether the objects of my waning hate live or die.

[Purveyor]

12. K&R n/t

[slipslidingaway]

13. K&R....

"The money must be used to purchase military equipment from the US defence industry"

:(

[saigon68]

14. Good amerikan jobs

Killing brown people

[bvar22]

17. Every Israeli enjoys Cradle to Grave FREE Universal HealthCare.

The American Taxpayers who help fund Universal HealthCare for Israel....well, you know the rest.

Maybe Israel should be sending money to the USA?

[Benhurst]

31. Amen.

[JonathanInTelAviv]

36. False

Health care costs in Israel are paid by citizens and their employers, if they're employed.

But the costs are indeed much lower than in the US, because doctors and nurses make unbelievably low salaries, and malpractice awards aren't huge, as in the US.

[bvar22]

41. TRUE!

Universal HealthCare (Free at point of service) is ALWAYS paid for by the citizens and their employers everywhere in the Civilized World.

If the "citizens" of Israel have enough money to afford to pay for Universal HealthCare, then maybe Israel does not need $3Billion/year of American taxpayer money.
The citizens of the USA cannot afford ANY HealthCare for over 50 Million, and another 100 Million are underinsured.

[JonathanInTelAviv]

43. I see: "Free" means it costs money

Gotcha.

Anyhow, I'm sure you know that the amount of aid the US gives to Israel, while very generous, doesn't prevent the US from dealing with *any* of its problems, including health care, which is indeed a big problem. Your argument is worthless.

And I *know* you're not just using the issue of healthcare in the US as an excuse to drum up a lynch mob against Israel because you, bvar22, advocate cutting US foreign aid to ALL countries, right?

[bvar22]

44. No.

I support an INCREASE in Foreign Aid. The USA is quite miserly with the amount of Foreign Aid when considered as a percentage of GDP. I believe we are in LAST Place in the developed World.

I do believe that each country receiving American Taxpayer money needs to be reevaluated on an individual basis under these two guidelines:

1)Heavy priority to NEED
2)Human Rights

Israel is well down the list on BOTH counts.

[JonathanInTelAviv]

45. I see you're a principled man...

and I'm sure you're for cutting aid to other countries, not just Israel, because by Jove, you're a principled man, and not, no way! just out to bash Israel.

For example...

[JonathanInTelAviv]

58. No examples?

Thought not.

[LeftishBrit]

50. The USA COULD afford health care for everyone, if the government were committed to providing it

America doesn't lack a national health service because it's too poor (in fact, its current health care system is pretty expensive). It lacks a national health service because its government is ideologically opposed to providing one.

Britain established its national health service during a period of austerity just after WW2. Many countries that are not particularly rich have national health services.

I don't approve, quite generally speaking, of the amount of money that gets spent on military aid as compared to humanitarian aid worldwide. And I don't particularly approve of the current Israeli government. I wouldn't even be on this thread arguing if it was just an issue of how much military aid to give Israel. But it just seems that Israel is being regarded by some as a special scapegoat, to blame for everything from the war to America's lack of a national health service. I am very uncomfortable with the scapegoating of *any* country, whether it's Israel, Iran, Iraq, Russia, Britain, etc., etc.

[tomp]

55. of course, there's a real difference between scapegoating...

...and putting blame where it rightly belongs. even israel is not ALL bad, but it is a lynchpin in u.s. imperialism's middle east policy and THAT is all bad.

[JonathanInTelAviv]

56. Yes, but this is clearly scapegoating

People are connecting two unrelated issues (healthcare and aid to Israel) that aren't related, just to drum up anti-Israel fever.

The US has troops in gulf countries which deny women the right to drive, or even go outside without a male escort. Do they get flak for that? No.

The US much deeper military ties with Turkey, which is a NATO member (Israel isn't), not to mention a huge US airbase in Turkey. Do people get worked up about Turkey's occupation (since 1974) of Cyprus? Don't make me laugh.

There are plenty of other examples. But the amount of bashing Israel is subjected to dwarfs all the others. That is scapegoating.

[Megahurtz]

70. Health Care and AID to Israel IS Related.

One does not have to be an accountant to figure that out. :think:

Israel can afford their own War Machine.

By the way I and most people on this Forum do not want our U.S. Military and Troops
to be in any Country so it is redundant to refer to U.S. Military mindedness.

[Megahurtz]

72. Israel

that Country that you so vehemently defend, is scapegoating Iran.
Israel wants to bomb Iran. :think::hi:

So how do you feel about that? Do you defend them now???
And on that note you vehemently defend Billions of dollars of Military AID to Israel???:wtf:

[LeftishBrit]

74. I don't defend scapegoating of Iran EITHER

and I don't defend billions of military aid to ANYONE

and I don't 'vigorously defend' Israel against anything EXCEPT allegations of being somehow responsible for all the world's or America's problems. Do you think that if Bush wasn't spending the money on Israeli aid, he would spend it on American health care instead? More likely, put it into yet another war of his own.

You're probably aware that some people in the world blame AMERICA for all the world's evils. I expect you don't like that. Why scapegoat any country? I defend America when some people in Britain accuse it of being responsible for everything wrong in the world - even though I don't defend the Bush government at all. I am against ALL forms of xenophobia, and ALL forms of scapegoating.

[Megahurtz]

75. Lol

:rofl: seriously why would I not like the fact that some people in the World blame America for all the World's evils when it's basically true? What one Country goes around bullying and invading other Countries right now and throughout History? So I don't blame anyone for feeling that way at all.
As far as Israel is concerned, I cannot deny that they have and still do commit atrocities to the Palestinian people, that is a fact.

There is no Humanitarian reason whatsoever to give Israel any of our money and they should not be asking for it. That money needs to be used for Humanitarian reasons for Citizens inside the U.S.. Israel is one of the wealthiest Countries in the entire World, and they are definitely not hurting.

I think that you have a "Wall" up of perceived "xenophobia", "scapegoating", "blaming" etc.
that prevents you from really hearing what others have to say about this subject.
This "Wall" is preventing the communication from me to you.
How can I communicate to you if all that you see is "xenophobia"??? which by the way is
your own perception, not mine.
With the "Wall" up you totally miss my point.

Anyway, some of us Americans sure could us some of that strong "defensiveness" of yours! :hi:
Most of the World thinks we "have it all" here when on the contrary, due to warped Government policies a large number of us do not.

[babylonsister]

25. US Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns has signed a deal that will provide Israel with $30bn

Source: BBC

US and Israel in $30bn arms deal
Israeli PM Ehud Olmert and US Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns shake hands (15 August 2007)
Israel and the US are increasingly alarmed by Iran's growing power
US Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns has signed a deal that will provide Israel with $30bn (£14.8bn) of military aid over the next 10 years.

The Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, has said the aid will preserve his country's military advantage over other countries in the Middle East.

The new military aid package represents a 25% increase from present levels.

The US announced multi-billion-dollar arms deals with Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and other Gulf states last month.

Washington says it wants to help its allies in the Middle East meet their security needs and counter the growing power of Iran in the region.

more...

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6948981.stm

[PDJane]

26. Israel is the biggest problem in the middle east.......

and the one with the nukes, the nukes that have not been seen or authorized by the NNPT.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

27. Good god that's depressing news.

We just keeping digging ourselves deeper and deeper into this mess.

[Double T]

28. $30 Billion here, $100 Billion there, and a trillion over yonder............

no wonder the whole damn thing is broke and collapsing.

[cui bono]

29. Who are we borrowing the money from?

We don't have it to give anymore.

[leftchick]

30. gee, it would be nice if my state could get 30 billion

hell 30 Billion for the country for health care alone.

[Megahurtz]

35. In Other News.....

"Iran, Russia, and China are increasingly alarmed by The U.S. and Israel's growing power......"

:sarcasm: (but not really)

[DU GrovelBot]

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[dipsydoodle]

37. Analysis: New US-Israeli arms deal

later update on the subject :

Israel has not got everything its own way.

Indeed, the visit of the US Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs, Nicholas Burns, was postponed earlier this month after it became clear that the US was not in a position to deliver the aid in quite the way the Israelis wanted.

The Israeli government would have preferred to get equal instalments each year over the 10-year period.

Instead, the aid will increase by some $150m (£76m) each year. In other words, Israel will get less of the money during the initial period of this deal than it had wanted.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6949904.stm

[Jim Warren]

59. End the occupation

This military aid package, amounting to $3 billion per year, represents a 25% increase over the current U.S. annual military aid appropriation to Israel of $2.4 billion. Israel is already the largest recipient of U.S. military aid before the proposed increase.

Rather than use U.S. military aid for 'legitimate self-defense' or 'internal security', Israel relies upon it to prosecute its illegal 40-year old foreign military occupation of the Palestinian West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip. 'Gross violations of internationally recognized human rights' against Palestinians living under Israel’s illegal military occupation have been well-documented by numerous Palestinian, Israeli, U.S., and international human rights organizations, as well as by the U.S. government.

During Israel’s attacks last summer upon civilians and civilian infrastructure in the Gaza Strip and Lebanon, the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation documented many instances of Israel using U.S. weapons in violation of U.S. law and demanded that the Bush Administration and Congress hold Israel accountable for these violations of law.

http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizations/uscampaign/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=12265

[subsuelo]

63. In glaring contrast to the stated goal of fighting terrorism

It is instead very obvious that the more war crimes one commits, the more U.S. support and military funding increases (as long as U.S. interests are at heart)

by the way, I find the article above being far too kind in characterizing the atrocities of last summer as merely "Israel's attacks".

[Nihil]

64. Fact-free response from ...

... JonathanInTelAviv in 3..2..1..

[dipsydoodle]

67. Just noticed that

He does seem just that tinsy bit biased :rofl:

[Megahurtz]

71. Rofl!

:rofl: Gee, I wonder why :shrug: not as if he's not $$$$$$comfortable$$$$$$ or anything.:sarcasm:

[Canuckistanian]

60. Aha, the other shoe drops

I knew this was coming.

It's the only way that Israel could accept the $20bn Saudi arms deal signed earlier.

[JuniperLea]

65. Typical...

We borrow billions from one country, expand the debt that will be owed by the poorest in our own country, and give it to a very wealthy country.

There is no good reason for this.

[badgervan]

84. What If.....

... you want to "drown government down the bathtub drain"? It's been obvious to me that all of this insane spending and borrowing, tax cuts for the rich, etc. is being done so the federal treasury gets emptied. Presto: no money for social programs, education, environment, infrastructure, etc. Oh-oh, now what happens? Why, privatization to the rescue!
If you don't see it, you had best wake up to it.

[sarcasmo]

73. Kick.

My thinking is so that Israel can invade Iran instead of the United States.

[Purveyor]

77. U.S.: No strings attached to new defense package for Israel

Source: Haaretz

The new $30 billion American defense package for Israel is not conditioned on diplomatic progress or concessions to the Palestinians, a top U.S. aide said Thursday as representatives from both countries signed the memorandum of understanding in Jerusalem.

U.S. Under Secretary of State Nicholas Burns said the aid to Israel was meant to counter "an axis of cooperation between Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and Hamas that is responsible for the violence in the region."

--
U.S. officials have said the package - which was announced last month and must still be approved by Congress - is designed to reassure Israel and Sunni Muslim Gulf countries of Washington's commitment to the Middle East despite its problems in Iraq. It would also strengthen the Gulf nations in the face of the growing clout of Shi'ite Iran and its nuclear program.

--
The agreement also permits Israel to convert into shekels 26.3 percent of the aid money, enabling it to procure defense equipment from Israeli companies. The rest of the aid must be used to buy equipment from U.S. arms manufacturers.



Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/894644.html

[Posteritatis]

78. 26.3%? How do they arrive at those kinds of figures? (nt)

[northamericancitizen]

79. I don't claim I am an expert... but this news makes me wonder

to which point the American government will stop and think.

Personally I find it revolting.

On one hand they arm Israel and on the other they bring humanitarian aid to the ones being attacked by Israel.

WTF ?

[madrchsod]

82. the american government never stops and thinks

when it comes to the middle east and the role that israel plays in the game. it`s all about giving our defense contractors billions and giving money for r&d to the israeli defense industry. it`s a sick game only a few have the money to play

[madrchsod]

80. a gift of30 billion of our money to theState of Israel

and there`s no money for new orleans,our bridges and roads,children health care,veterans,and the list goes on..yes 30 billion of our money to a country that can turn any country in the middle east into glass....

[defendandprotect]

81. Someone suggested that some of this money to Israel was coming back to GOP -- ????

There's a lot to think about here . . .

We've been arming right-wing/religiously fundamentalist Israel and suffocating liberal/democratic Israel.

This $ is for weapons. Many say that Israeli and US weapons manufacture are so closely intertwined that it is almost impossible to tell the difference between them!!!

What Israel is practicing is full scale war against an unarmed Palestine resulting in near genocide!

[OzarkDem]

83. Where will they get the money? We're broke & far in debt

What's next, our Social Security Trust fund?