Abortion law would give fathers a say State legislators propose change;

[Richard D]

Source: Record-Courier

New proposed legislation in Ohio would make it illegal for a woman to get an abortion without a man's permission, according to the Record-Courier.

Not knowing who the father of the fetus is couldn't be used as an excuse under the new law. Women would have to provide a list of potential fathers who would then be required to submit themselves to paternity testing until a father is found. It would also make it illegal for a man who isn't the father to provide the permission.

What about rape or incest? A woman seeking an abortion would have to provide "reasonable cause" for the doctor to believe the rape of incest occurred, which, in our estimation, would probably mean police reports and charges filed.

Read more: http://www.recordpub.com/news/article/2327981

---

Excuse me while I scream.

[zanne]

1. At this rate, we don't have to attack Iran....

We ARE Iran!

[Kutjara]

2. Step right this way to the Middle Ages. All aboard now!

Just another pitiful RW attempt to undermine a woman's right to choose. The scumbags never give up.

[Solly Mack]

3. really gotta dig out my baseball bat

[superconnected]

4. Let me join you.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGG!!!

[BlueJazz]

5. This a Good Law.

...To launch to the Andromeda Galaxy...where Men have Babies.

[MaineDem]

61. You scared me for a moment

I agree with you though.

[LiberalFighter]

87. Women would have to provide a list of potential fathers (That is the key)

Who is the sponsor of the law? Who are the co-sponsors?

Name everyone one of them as potential fathers and force them to submit to the DNA test.
Then make sure the media know about it.

[xchrom]

6. well, there it is.

the worst of all possible laws in recent times regarding abortion.

these tapeworms might as well bring back slavery while they are at it.

[angstlessk]

7. And what do they propose the punishment is if I have an abortion and thumb

my nose at those ignorant laws??? and do not tell me doctors will not perform an abortion without consent...WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL THE TESTING..AND SHIT?? PEOPLE WHO DROWN FROM BROKEN BRIDGES???

[bluestateguy]

8. Totally sexist and unconstitutional

And another example of big government conservatism.

[Posteritatis]

12. I can see sexist, evil, vile, delenda est, etc...

But how would it be unconstitutional?

(Serious question; I'm Canadian and not as familiar with the bulk of the US constitution as I really should be.)

[Demeter]

35. In a Number of Ways

4th amendment, 9th amendment, medical privacy, common sense, all those Reality-Based things. Not to mention, unenforceable on the face of it.

[bluestateguy]

37. It violates Casey vs. Planned Paernthood precedent

The law is nothing more than an effort to harass and intimidate the women and imposes an undue burden on the woman.

[depakid]

89. How long will Casey be controlling law?

My guess is that the court will find the right facts to overturn the whole line of cases sometime around 2009.

[noshenanigans]

9. hmm..

Ok, so when I had an abortion I didn't even know I was pregnant until about 7 weeks in. So then if thats when you find out, then you have to go through all this to find all the potential fathers (I went to college, I'm not stupid).

Ahh.. crafty...

Is there someone skimming off Welfare?

[Crazy Dave]

10. Unless you're a politician

Then you can send your mistress or intern off quickly on a private jet to a Caribbean island or somewhere in South America for an abortion, then a few weeks to recuperate at a nice 5 star resort, then it's a large sum of hush money or a very high paying job in Washington or with a big campaign contributer. A former supervisor of mine who worked in Washington said that while most of the young women who come to start an honest career in politics get blown away when they're specifically targeted and seduced by these men of power. "Wow, this guy just gets on his cell phone and calls me a limo or a jet and he buys me nice things", stuff like that, then they get pregnant. But there are quite a few who already know how the game is played and can get rich quickly and on purpose.

[Kber]

11. I told my son he has a choice regarding abortion

and it happens before he unzips his pants.

I suppose they have iron clan child support laws. And a provision that if a woman wants an abortion and the father refuses, that he is forced to assume primary custody?

That's all in there right?

I mean they wouldn't allow a man to force a woman to carry to term against her wishes and then let him to disappear, right?

[feminazi]

21. I told my son the same thing.

*

[ChazII]

27. That makes three of us. :D n/t

[bluestateguy]

23. I had a college classmate who was pro-abortion

He called himself "pro-abortion". His attitude was that if he ever got a girl pregnant, he would "make" her go to the abortion clinic to have the procedure done.

[loser_user]

31. That can be a downside too...

A few years ago I recall a women who filed suit against a man for using extortion to force to her to have an abortion.

I really don't have an opinion on abortion. Not really my business nor my place to judge a woman who has one.

[BlueIris]

64. My sigline is made for dipshits like that.

[Posteritatis]

84. At least that kind of attitude makes the pregnancies less likely. (nt)

[ryanus]

43. how is this different that the rightwing stance?

That the choice is before, not after, conception?

[BlueIris]

65. Um...I'm going to let the asinine nature of this post stand as its own rebuke...

but I hope some of the sane posters here will consider trying to edjumacate this person.

[customerserviceguy]

68. It's different in one regard

it applies only to men, and not to women. Once that sperm leaves the man's body, he has no rights to it. He'd better take damn good care to dispose of it.

I told my son that it didn't matter if he had a videotape of a girl doing it with half of his high school, if he wins the DNA lottery, then he's the one writing the child support check for eighteen years. Or, he could watch that girl flush his first offspring down the toilet, it wasn't going to be his choice.

Many years ago, parents had to tell their daughters that sex was to be reserved for someone special, someone who you would want to raise a child with, now parents have to tell that to their sons. I guess that qualifies as equality.

[BlueIris]

71. My sigline is also made for people like you.

"I guess that qualifies as equality."

Jesus Christ.

[customerserviceguy]

75. Tell me what I said

that is false. Should not boys/men be extremely careful about what they do with their reproductive organs and the sperm that may be present in them? There's even been a case where a man was ordered to pay child support for a pregnancy where a woman gave him oral sex, and impregnated herself with the semen. Men have been ordered to pay support even when a child their wives had was proven to have been fathered by another man in an affair.

If you wonder why there is still animosity between the genders, it's because we have not figured out how to teach it, we only make laws that foster mistrust as an unintended byproduct.

Oh, and by the way, I did have the vasectomy that your tagline mentions. It was done for free by a doctor friend of the researcher I volunteered for in the 1970's who was pursuing chemical means of male contraception. Now THAT would be something that worked in favor of equality. I had hoped it would be a reality for men by the time my sons got of age, but the Carter Administration reduced the funding, and the Reagan Administration cut it off entirely.

[Kber]

88. A man (or woman) has a choice to not have sex. That's what I mean.

[BlueIris]

57. What's this...a post from a SANE parent? Nice. nt

[LiberalFighter]

70. I could go for that

Force the man to take custody of the child. But, if the woman is still the legal mother of the child then she would still have to pay child support. If I was the woman I would not want to be paying child support for an unplanned child and give birth. I would also not want to go through the 9 months of pregnancy, labor, and after pregnancy all for the sake of some other person's glorified bs. The mother would need to give up parental rights to the child to avoid paying child support.

What are the consequences that a man goes through during a pregnancy and birth of a child? If I was a woman in a situation where I was forced to go through the pregnancy and labor I would not want THAT man to be anywhere near me including in the hospital.

It is odd they want legislation to allow a man to prevent a woman from having an abortion but they don't also offer the man the right to demand the woman get an abortion. Aren't they both bad options?

If the man was not intending to be married to the woman or the woman had broken off contact with the man then it should be up to the woman to decide. Under those circumstances it should be the responsibility of the woman to raise the child without support of the biological father if she decides to give birth. Or to have an abortion and give herself the time needed to be ready to be a mother.

Maybe they should require that anyone wanting to have children should obtain a license. Anyone not having a license would be required to abort the fetus. And make the man the responsible party if a woman gets pregnant without a license and liable for the fine. Oh, and the license would only be valid for the party listed. The man could not decide later who he wants to get pregnant.

[BattyDem]

13. If the man wants it, he can carry it for 9 months

Otherwise, it's her body and it's NO ONE ELSE'S BUSINESS!!!! :grr: :grr: :grr:

[glowing]

14. We all go nuts over these new rules, but how many Dr.s would really

look at a young lady who had been raped and say no abortion?

[Kutjara]

16. I'd say any doctor who wanted to keep his/her license to practice medicine.

It'll only take one or two cases of women claiming they were raped in an attempt to circumvent the law, whose "boyfriend" then turns up and says he's the father and there was no rape, and blowing the whistle on the doctor, for the medical community to fall into line.

A desparate woman who doesn't want to have a baby will do many things to get rid of it. Telling a lie or two to a doctor (or even to the cops) is small potatoes compared to what women have had to do in the past.

[glowing]

30. Didn't it say there was a provision for rape or incest?

I'm not saying this law is a good one. Lord knows its my body and its my right to have or not have a child come out through my you know what----would a Dr. really be that critical in making the girl prove the rape or incest? Personally, I believe more women will be visiting other states, backdooring, or throwing themselves down a set of stairs.

[Kutjara]

33. Yes, there is a rape provision, which is why I mentioned it...

...as one thing women may try to use to get around the law.

What I was trying to say is that the medical profession will very quickly be brought to heel. All it would take is a few "bogus" rape claims where the doctor was being sued or prosecuted by the father, for the rest of the profession to get the message.

Also, I doubt it'll be left to individual doctors' consciences. Women who claim to have been raped will no doubt have to produce documentary evidence (a police report, medical test results, etc.) to be eligible for an abortion. Doctors will be required to keep copies of these records and woe betide any that don't have their documentation in order.

Your conclusion, I think, is right. People who can afford it will just go out of state. The rest will have to resort to "time honored" techniques.

[Posteritatis]

18. While facing jail for it? Far too many. (nt)

[Debi]

38. The same type of person who won't prescribe birth control or

Emergency contraception. They're out there :eyes:

[Occulus]

45. The "christian" ones.

I only put the quotes in place because the christians make me feel like I must.

[Hekate]

52. Oh honey, you really were born after Roe vs. Wade, weren't you?

When the LAW defines abortion as MURDER -- which it did, and which the wingnuts are hot to bring back -- it takes either an extremely courageous doctor to perform one or a criminal who just wants your money and isn't too careful about sanitation.

Both the woman and the provider are at risk of jail-time, and the doctor is at risk of losing his/her license.

In the bad old days, women who wanted a legal abortion had to go before a COMMITTEE at the hospital and prove that their physical and/or mental health was at stake. It was damn near impossible for a poor woman to get approval, while well-connected women who could stand the humiliation were able to get permission more easily.

Now the wingnuts want to forbid abortion even in cases of risk to the mother's life and health. Every religion on Earth up until this point has made an exception for that.

As for the rape and incest loophole, the assholes who wrote the law under discussion have made sure the woman or girl must PROVE the assault took place. Not just claim it, but legally prove it.

Every goddamned bit of this legislation is about control and punishment -- of women.

Where's my burka?

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

Hekate

[BlueIris]

59. Also, far too many people are still profoundly ignorant about the fact that doctors in America are

insanely misogynist. They get off on neglecting, punishing and hurting women as much as the next person--yes, even the female doctors. Also--90% of them, if not more, can barely be moved to do more than just the bare minimum for their patients at this point. So, no, they wouldn't refuse to comply with this law or any law, especially not on what few priciples any of them can claim to have left.

The ignorance on this board regarding misogyny in America is astounding. Fellas--make friends with some women. Learn something about their lives and realities. Just something. Please.

[superconnected]

15. if you read it, it gets worse and worse. It's police state bad.

Even men go to jail if they say they are the father and they are not. No abortion can be preformed with no father. And it's making the assumption that men carry the financial responsibility for the child, a wrong assumption as at worst, both do, and often it's the mother only.

[ninkasi]

17. When will be need their permission

to vote, or to go out in public? This is an extremely insulting attempt to make us chattel. What about a man needing his wife, or sexual partner's permission to have a vasectomy, do you think men would stand for that? How many 13 or 14 year old girls who get pregnant due to incest have the ability to file a report with the police? These sanctimonious bastards make me sick.

[HockeyMom]

54. I did have to sign a consent form

for my husband's vasectomy in 1984. We also had to give our REASONS and listen to about half an hour's worth of "counseling" from the doctor. Very insulting and we told that doctor so.

We had decided before we married (10 years at that time) that once we had two children, we wanted to PERMANENTLY prevent having any more.

[ninkasi]

69. I didn't realize that

the wife had to sign a consent form. My husband would have been furious, and so would I. Amazing, when it comes to some things, we get treated like children. I think that an adult not wanting to produce more children should be reason enough.

[BlueIris]

72. An adult wanting to have control of his own medical decision should be enough, regardless of marital

status. The doctor, and many doctors/healthcare facilities, claim putting people through that kind of shit is justifiable from a "liability" stand-point.

[Tempest]

19. Would Strickland sign this?

Has his office made a statement about the proposed law?

[MasonJar]

20. Fine, just devise a method for the fathers to carry the fetus for 9 months.

[BlueIris]

63. And then have said feuteses ripped out of their bodies in the most dehumanizing

manner available without worthwhile anesthetics or decent aftercare, then live with the health damage resultant from the pregnancies for the rest of their lives...

[Ilsa]

22. Okay, so what if a woman does a sperm bank deal, and then discovers

the fetus has some serious medical problems and she wants, even needs, to abort? What about that one, you pigs in Ohio?

[Lars39]

24. Is this how a civil war is fomented?

[BlueIris]

62. If only Americans could be motivated to fight a civil war over human rights.

[pokercat999]

25. If true, Rep. John Adams and the other scum that are

backing this bill need protection. I suggest they are placed in a nice wood box about 3' X 3' X 7' and lowered into a hole in the ground and covered up for eternity. All for safe keeping of course, wouldn't want any harm to come to them.

[Lars39]

26. Damn straight.

[debbierlus]

28. I am going to scream along with you

Abortion clinics would be in every town & city, if men could get pregnant....

That is atrocious.

[ProudDad]

46. Not only that

If men could get pregnant, Abortions would be free...on the government...with a lollipop and an Ice Cream Cone after...

If men could get pregnant, birth control would be handed out like candy on every street corner...

If men could get pregnant, research for safe, effective birth control would be funded like the Apollo program was...

If men could get pregnant, bugging out on child support would be a capital offense...

If men could get pregnant, after birth they'd get 9 months+ paid birth and parental leave (just like French women already have!)...

If men could get pregnant, there'd be no "mommy track"...

----------------

Luckily, this evil law probably won't pass in Ohio.

[BlueIris]

73. Legislators should be publicly shamed for promoting or supporting these disgusting proposals.

[Triana]

29. Oh Hell, why not just sell women's bodies to men....

...as sex slaves?

Not much diff. Are burkas next? Stonings? Honor killings?

:mad:

[sarcasmo]

34. Doesn't it say somewhere in the book of Santa Jesus

That Fathers can give away their daughters to Men to settle a debt. Maybe they are just following WWSJ do, that's What Would Santa Jesus do.

[superconnected]

32. So basically the republicans now admit it was never a Christian moral issue.

but a control issue.

Women may have abortions providing the man gives her permission.

[noiretextatique]

81. right...it's always been about controlling women

it's never been about anything else.

[HuffleClaw]

36. this is little more than a FUNDRAISING gambit by the usual suspects

and shameful of course

[Debi]

39. Do we have to get their permission to have them impregnate us as well? n/t

[Az_lefty]

40. I wonder if the men supporting this would allow a woman...

to have control over his body? Humm, probably not.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

41. What Happens In Vegas, Stays In Vegas*

* offer not valid for Ohio residents.

[pop goes the weasel]

42. well, okay...

if the "fathers" put their bodies on the line, too. I'm thinking, mandatory kidney and marrow donations.

[Stinky The Clown]

44. Why am I unable to shake the word 'chattel' from my head?

[Hekate]

78. Because it's just so totally appropriate.

Thanks, Stinky.

Hekate

[provis99]

47. Simple solution:

Everyone who wants an abortion just name one of the jackasses who supports this law as the father. What a retarded, primitive idea this bill is.

[Le Taz Hot]

49. Oh, now

THAT is perfect.

[enki23]

48. Sure. The father should certainly have a say.

So here's what I propose. Both parents should have an equal vote in the matter. Those two, and no one else, have the right to take part in that decision. However, since there are two people, not just one, not more than one, involved, the tiebreaker will obviously have to go to the one who contributed the greater portion of the cytoplasm and the genetic material.

Obviously, these maths are hard, but essentially they boil down to this: there's no reason to ask the father. There are only two people involved, and one of them clearly has a larger stake. Most people are stupid. Some people are sneaky. Some people in Ohio think they're sneaky, but really are just stupid. We call them Republicans. Even when they aren't being actively malevolent they're still fucking up the place.

[qdemn7]

50. So WTF will they do

When a woman has a miscarriage? Run a drug test on her to make sure she didn't take something to make it happen? Jeeeeeezz :puke:

[David__77]

51. A baby's not a baby, until it comes out.

That's what birthdays are all about.

[WindRavenX]

53. what year is are we in again? 1407?

Fucking insane.

[JerseygirlCT]

55. OMG

Oh my. No. NO. NO. NO.

Unbelievable. Are we back the The Scarlet Letter here? Give us a list of all your evil transgressions, and we'll let the man decide what happens with YOUR body?

No. I don't think so.

Oh, I cannot believe how angry this makes me. Hopefully it makes an awful lot of people in OH pretty angry, too. This cannot be allowed to go any further.

[BlueIris]

56. The vilest thing out of Ohio yet.

With the possible exception of the "election 'results'" from '04, '05 and '06.

[kskiska]

58. The Sherri Finkbine case

1962: Abortion mother returns home

An American mother-of-four is on her way home amid a storm of controversy after being given a legal abortion in Sweden.

Sherri Finkbine, a TV presenter from Phoenix in Arizona, was denied an abortion in her home-state following intense negative publicity surrounding her case.

The 30-year-old mother decided to terminate her fifth pregnancy after discovering that tranquilizers she had taken in the first few weeks of her pregnancy contained the drug Thalidomide.

(snip)

The negative publicity led her local hospital in Phoenix to withdraw a tentative offer of a legal abortion for fear they may be held criminally liable - the current law in Arizona states that abortion can only be carried out to save the mother's life.

Mrs Finkbine and her husband, Robert, a school teacher, took the case to the Arizona State Supreme Court but were unsuccessful.

Despite vilification from anti-abortionists across the United States and the world she flew to Sweden where the operation was carried out.

After the operation it was confirmed that the foetus had no legs and only one arm.

more…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/26/newsid_3039000/3039322.stm

[BlueIris]

66. You never hear about that last detail of the Finkbine case, do ya?

"After the operation it was confirmed that the foetus had no legs and only one arm."

[kskiska]

74. No, you don't.

I remember this case very well. It was so incredible that this woman wasn't allowed to have a "therapeutic abortion." Her going public about it scared everyone away. Previously, there wasn't much talk of abortion in the news. It certainly wasn't a prominent political issue back then.

[Hekate]

77. Her reason for going public was the Thalidomide crisis in Europe was here too...

She knew that other women than herself would have gotten this drug either from travelling to Europe or from their husband travelling there. The pictures from Europe were absolutely horrific -- Life magazine devoted an issue to it.

Her doctor actually said something to the effect that he would support her getting an abortion, and that if it were him and his wife they'd "try again at a better time." But the subtext was, do it quietly and make no waves.

Sherri Finkbine went public out of a sense of responsibility to women she would never meet. What a courageous woman.

Hekate

[LostinVA]

80. That's the first case I thought of

Sissy Spacek was in a very good TV movie based on that case.

[MaineDem]

60. I just screamed at my monitor!

This is beyond ridculous.

[snooper2]

67. Does that go the other way as well then....

Father should have a say (Yes/No) if the woman wants to have the baby then, correct?

[Chovexani]

76. OMFG what year is it?

:grr: :banghead:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

79. If the father wants the fetus

he should bloody well have to carry it.

[Ilsa]

83. Yeah, let's remove it and give it to him. Let him figure out what to do with it. nt

[GoddessOfGuinness]

85. Most likely, he'd hand it over to his mother.

[SemperEadem]

82. OMG!

this is absurd! Women are now children? They cannot make decisions regarding their own bodies without some man weighing in on it? That is patently absurd! Whoever came up with that one should be shot at dawn.

[SocratesInSpirit]

86. WHAT????

:nuke:

The person who gets the final say on whether to have an abortion should be the person who carries the baby in the first place. It may seem unfair, but that's just the way it is. The only other option, as this proposed legislation disgustingly and patriarchally advocates, is for women be forced to submit control of their OWN bodies to others.

Never in a million years!!!!!!