House Members Say They Will Try to Block Arms Sales to Saudis

[laststeamtrain]

Source: Washington Post

House Members Say They Will Try to Block Arms Sales to Saudis

By Robin Wright
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 29, 2007; A06

The Bush administration's plan to sell $20 billion in advanced weaponry to Saudi Arabia and five other Persian Gulf countries is running into congressional opposition and criticism from human rights and arms control groups.

Members of Congress vowed yesterday to oppose any deal to Saudi Arabia on grounds that the kingdom has been unhelpful in Iraq and unreliable at fighting terrorism. King Abdullah has called the U.S. military presence in Iraq an "illegitimate occupation," and the Saudis have been either unable or unwilling to stop suicide bombers who have ended up in Iraq, congressional sources say.

Human rights groups warned that new U.S. arms meant to contain Iran's rising influence could backfire, allowing President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to rally greater support for his hard-line faction in the run-up to parliamentary elections next spring.

And arms control groups said Bush's strategy would accelerate an already-dangerous trend that could increase tensions rather than generate a greater sense of security.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/28/AR2007072801172.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Whoa_Nelly]

2. Selling arms to the Saudis has been going on for a long time.

And, yes, this latest BushCo/PNAC move is just more of the move for global domination. However, wanted to post this about the fact that sales much like what's going on now has been happening already.



These are just the figures through 1999. Am sure there is even more up-to-date info out there in cyberspace. It's all very dirty business.


http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/saudi_arabia.htm

<snip>
Saudi Arabia is America’s top customer. Since 1990, the U.S. government, through the Pentagon’s arms export program, has arranged for the delivery of more than $39.6 billion in foreign military sales to Saudi Arabia, and an additional $394 million worth of arms were delivered to the Saudi regime through the State Department’s direct commercial sales program during that same period. (Foreign Military and Construction Sales and Direct Commercial Sales are recorded and published by the Dept. of Defense in Foreign Military Sales, Foreign Military Construction Sales and Military Assistance Facts; the most current online edition includes information through FY 1999.)

Oil rich Saudi Arabia is a cash-paying customer. It receives no U.S. military assistance to finance these purchases, although it does demand that about 35 percent of all major contracts be "offset"-that is, economic benefits equaling 35 percent of the arms contract value must be steered back to the Saudi economy. (Check out the Offsets Monitoring Project for more information on this phenomenon.)

The United States has very close and long-running military ties to the Saudi regime dating back to 1945. Following the 1990-91 war against Iraq, more than 5,000 U.S. troops and thousands of U.S. military contractors have been continuously based in Saudi Arabia. However, several concerns have been raised about this close military cooperation and the related sales of sophisticated arms. These concerns are:

* sophisticated arms sales to Saudi Arabia spurring regional arms races
* high level military expenditures undermining stability
* opposition to American military presence on Saudi soil
* political repression and violations of human rights
* border disputes and regional tension
* concerns about proliferation of nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles
* support for international terrorism

(The above asterisked subgroups are links at the page link)

...more re: SA and US at main page link

[bluestateguy]

3. Saudi Arabia coddles terrorists worse than anyone in the world

Selling them weapons is selling them weapons that might eventually be used against us.

[Tom Joad]

4. nah, the US tops the list of terror lovers. remember Sept 11, 1973?

Kissinger and the dead nixon helped terrorize Chile, and gave it fascist Pinochet.
Just one example of many.

[Wise Doubter]

17. ...weapons that might eventually be used against us

I think that`s the idea...

[KoKo]

5. Prince Bandar Bush is making a deal to try to get his little buddy Bush outta Iraq

by making it sound like Saudi's will be able to defend themselves against BIG BAD IRAN and keep the border safe against Iraw insurgents with this arms deal.

Instead this will widen the War in the Middle East. Saudi's and Bush...and Bandar is new Minister of Defense for Saudi Arabia (I believe that's his title) and his home in Aspen,CO is up for sale since he high tailed it out of the US a few months ago.

[onehandle]

6. Cut off the country that FINANCED and MANNED 9/11!

This is about awarding contracts for future wars to the American arms industry.

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

10. the USA?

[rodeodance]

7. It WILL pass cause it has "30 billion in military aid to Israel" included in the bill.

U.S. officials acknowledged that congressional reaction has been mixed but cautioned that details of a broader arms package -- including $30 billion in military aid to Israel and $13 billion to Egypt over the next 10 years -- have yet to be released. "As we move forward, we will work very closely with Congress, as well as our friends and allies in the region," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.

[Captain Angry]

12. So, they're going to sell $20 Billion and give away $43 Billion?

Nice math! Man our government is incredible.

[MrPrax]

24. Incredible...Incredibly Generous!!

It's good to see the US still embodies decent Christian values like charity --

While most Christians (and the sane) might look upon that Empire crushing, almost 'science fiction'--like, national debt and hesitate...but...no no...not good old Uncle Sam!!

Anything to help spread the joys of ecumenicalism to their good Arab and Jewish friends...

What industrious people!!
Your so much closer to God than the rest of us.

:sarcasm:

[Wise Doubter]

18. Aid to Israel is in the bill ?!!

Phtt ! forgetta `bout it ! it`s a done deal.


30 billion
:mad:

[AntiFascist]

29. Something Israel should be concerned about regarding their "friends and allies"....

Evangelical Armageddon.

[JerseygirlCT]

33. So perhaps we see the real objective here:

arms sales are good for arms sellers...

[rodeodance]

8. It's another case of trying to purchase stability at the expense of liberty,"

Arms experts called for a serious debate on the quality and quantity of weapons going to the Gulf states. "This administration does not have an arms sales policy, except to sell, sell, sell," said Daryl G. Kimball of the Arms Control Association. "That approach in the Middle East can be like throwing gasoline on a brush fire."

Human Rights Watch said the arms deals would undermine long-term U.S. goals in the Middle East. "This will reduce pressure on Egypt and the Arab states to reform their politics. It's another case of trying to purchase stability at the expense of liberty," said Washington director Tom Malinowski.

[DeSwiss]

9. And lopping off heads & the stonings are a bit of a problem too... n/t

K&R

[Purveyor]

11. The AIPAC continguent is pissed-off that the Saudis can actually pay for their weapons versus

USA welfare handouts to their pathetic State, israel...

[IndianaGreen]

13. The Israel Lobby has issued their marching orders, and Congress follows like sheep

I can understand the rationale for arming Saudi as a deterrent to Iran, but let's face it, the reason the Middle East is a mess is because of our meddling.

The US should stop all arms sales to all the Middle East countries, including Israel.

The US should leave the Middle East!

[IChing]

14. Traitor

You sound like that Revolutionary who wrote Washington's Farewell Address
or Eisenhower's Farewell Speech.:) :sarcasm:

[IndianaGreen]

15. We disregarded Washington's warning about "foreign entanglements"

and ignored Ike's words about the threat posed to freedom by the military-industrial complex.

Today we have ditched the Constitution and installed a dictator in the White House, while the Congress decides to put impeachment "off the table."

And we wonder where we went wrong...

[Wise Doubter]

20. $$$ $$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$

EVERYBODY has their hands in each other`s pocket -at least enough of them- that impeachment will stay off the table !

2 things stronger than fear-and-pain, are sex-and-money.

[rabidchickens]

27. Yes Ike was wise

But how can we forgive him for greenlighting the Guatemala coup in 1953 and organizing Bay of Pigs. He shouldve watched the civilian CIA as well as the military :P

[Wise Doubter]

19. Didn`t we aid Iraq in fear of Iran ???

Hmmmmmmmm...:popcorn:

[AntiFascist]

30. Prior to that, didn't we aid Iran in fear of the Soviet Union...

this led to the Iranian Revolution.

[JerseygirlCT]

38. And train the Taliban in fear of the Soviets?

We never learn.

[ProudDad]

36. It appears

that that fuck ronny ray-gun armed both Iraq AND Iran...

[classysassy]

39. Peace

would breakout all over the middle east and the arm merchants profits would go down,no way as long as there is money to be made.

[tecelote]

16. Plus, now we're arming Iraqi citizens to defend themselves?!

More weapons in the Middle East. That'll bring peace to the region.

Sounds like a perfect way to keep us at war indefinitely.

America is a corporation. Profit above people.

[donkeyotay]

21. I can see 2 reasons for selling to Saudi Arabia

1) They've got to recycle their petro-dollars. They probably offered to start pricing oil in other currencies.

2) If we are going to tippy toe out of the disaster we created over there, the Arabs are going to be left defending against Iranian adventures and defending the Sunni minority, so arming them might be the first sign that we might leave.

As much sense as it might make in bushco world to sell the Saudis arms, my take on the way our congress operates is that this portion will get cut, but the arms increase to Israel will remain.

[CANDO]

22. Saudis represent the largest group of foreigners assisting the insurgency in Iraq.

So King George wants to sell them military arms? So they can smuggle these same arms into Iraq to kill even more of our soldiers? Fucking Insane! Everyone talk this up at work and at social gatherings. This needs to be exposed.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

23. Now we know why Darth Cheney went to

Saudi Arabia recently

[ohio2007]

25. Is this good news to the EU and Russia?

Well, the house of Saud will favor the EU war machine factory since most of the high tech toys come from the west.
As for Putin,
there is always Iran LOL




Iran buys 250 long-distance Sukhoi fighter-bombers, 20 fuel tankers, from Russia

http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=4449

[laststeamtrain]

26. Debka!?! Why not the Weekly World News?

O yeah. The WWN closed this week. (Goodbye Bat Boy, we'll miss you.)

I guess there's World Nut Daily.

[ohio2007]

34. Here is a Russian link

unless this kool aid brand isn't to your taste

Bush administration against Russian arms supplies to Iran
http://en.rian.ru/world/20070329/62813286.html

which was followed up shortly by this interesting byte;

Russia did not approve arms sale via Syria to Iran - Ivanov-1
http://rotabanner2.rian.ru/cgi-bin/iframe/nr_eng_slot_600x90?87778&charset=koi8-r

So which story gets breaking news coverage in your favorite flavor of news outlet?

Less than two weeks after leaving rehab, Lindsay Lohan was busted for driving under the influence and drug possession early Tuesday. Lohan reportedly explained that she was wearing someone else's jeans and that the cocaine found wasn't hers.

Let this be a lesson: next time you wear someone else's jeans, check the pockets first!











I understand board censorship but you better see a doctor about those news site phobias. ;)

[laststeamtrain]

35. Who IS Lindsay Lohan? I have no idea.

Did she win or lose some TV (no) talent show? A model? An (ahem) 'singer'? An actress? I really don't know. I figure if I was missing something I would know. I never have any idea who all these 'names' are & then they die or get arrested or get married or whatever...I'm just out-of-it when it comes to pop culture saturation.

I don't read the Russian news services. I guess that's what those links were you posted.

Debka is notorious for unsourced rumors & dis-info from a Likudnik point-of-view. I do look in every once & awhile.

I don't think I have 'irrational fears' (phobias) of certain news sites. I do think I have a BS detector, though. :hi:

[Scurrilous]

28. Israel declines to criticize U.S. weapons sales to Gulf Arab states

<snip>

"In a significant departure from past Israeli policy, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert posed no objections Sunday to a new U.S. plan to sell state-of-the-art weaponry to Saudi Arabia and other moderate Arab states, saying Iran was the common enemy.

"We understand the need of the United States to support the Arab moderate states and there is a need for a united front between the U.S. and us regarding Iran," Olmert said at a weekly cabinet meeting.

Still, the proposed arms deal - which would include advanced weaponry and air systems that would greatly enhance the striking ability of Saudi warplanes - set off alarms on the Israeli right, with one politician saying he feared that Saudi Arabia, although not belligerent at present, could be taken over by extremists."

<snip>

"Media reports for months have said Israel was trying to hamper the Saudi weapons deal, as it has done with previous proposed arms deals over the years, notably Jimmy Carter's attempt to sell F-15 warplanes and hi-tech Awacs airborne warning and control aircraft to Saudi Arabia in the 1980s.

Although the Israeli right voiced worries about the latest plan, it stopped short of outright calls to block it."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/29/news/arms.php

[AntiFascist]

31. "Could be taken over by extremists"?

I wonder if Olmert had seen this:

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/070515/2007051502.html

Saudi - Iran ties to foil enemy plots: Rafsanjani
Saudi Arabia-Iran, Politics, 5/15/2007

Regular consultations between Iran and Saudi Arabia would prevent enemies of Islam from achieving their goals particularly on creating discord among Shiite and Sunni Muslims, Iran's Chairman of the Expediency Council Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani said yesterday.


Rafsanjani made the remark in a telephone conversation with Saudi King Abdullah. The two sides exchanged views on ongoing developments in the region particularly the latest situation in Iraq.

They discussed problems of the Islamic world and expressed hope that cooperation between Iran and Saudi Arabia would lead to settlement of such issues.

Rafsanjani said cooperation among officials of the Islamic world would resolve problems in Iraq, Lebanon and Palestine.

King Abdullah said Iran has established a consolidated bond among Islamic nations and governments through its wisdom and farsightedness.

[JerseygirlCT]

32. How about on the grounds that they are human rights

offenders of the top rank, totally corrupt and not in the least interested in peace in the region?

Boy, I hope they manage to make this one stick.

[ProudDad]

37. I wish they block arms sales

and military aid to the Saudis AND the Israeli Fascists...

[sarcasmo]

40. Kick, this needs to happen but probably will not happen.

To many softies in the House.