Lech Walesa calls Venezuela's Chavez a demagogue

[Psephos]

Source: AP via Houston Chronicle

LIMA, Peru — The founder of Poland's Solidarity freedom movement today called Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez a demagogue who eventually will have to pay for his populist policies.

Lech Walesa, the Nobel Peace Prize laureate and former Polish president, said Chavez is offering Venezuelans things "that don't belong to him."

"I consider Chavez a demagogue and a populist, who says one thing and does another," Walesa said at a news conference. Walesa was in Peru to meet with President Alan Garcia and receive an honorary doctorate from the University of Lima.

"There will come a time of truth, and then (Chavez) will have to pay for everything he has done," Walesa said, speaking in Polish through a Spanish translator.

<snip>

Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/4910816.html

[NoodleBoy]

1. I'm suspicious of anyone who asks for the right to rule by fiat, and gets it.

[Peace Patriot]

16. Chavez, an elected president, asked for rule by decree powers on economic issues

--decree powers that are constitutional, written into law, and have been granted to, and used by, previous presidents--from the democratically elected National Assembly, and they agreed.

The irrationality of your comment lay in your statement "anyone who asks for the right to rule by fiat." Does it not strike you as important that he ASKED? In the act of asking, not to rule by fiat (personal whim) but rather by decree on specified economic problems, with legally determined time limits and parameters, of the democratically elected National Assembly, Chavez is indicating his adherence to the law, not breaking the law--say, the way Bush has done, time and again, with executive "signing statements" (making up his own laws), invention of his own category of prisoner ("enemy combatant") with no human rights, assertion of the power to torture prisoners (in violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the Geneva Conventions, and the Constitution, among other laws), and other demonstrations of Bushite contempt for the law. These decree powers in Venezuela are WITHIN THE LAW, and were AGREED TO by the National Assembly.

In leaving out the actual legal and political circumstances of Chavez's decree powers, and characterizing it as "rule by fiat," you grossly misstate the meaning of this action by the National Assembly.

Chavez's powers on certain listed economic issues are very similar to powers that Congress gave FDR to solve economic problems during the Great Depression. (And the rightwing made the same accusation against FDR--that he was a "dictator.") In Venezuela's case, the country is still recovering from decades of looting and misrule by the rich elite and exploitation by multinational corporations, leaving a vast poor population. The everyday lives of the poor--as to literacy, education, health care, nutrition, housing, income and aspirations to upward mobility--have dramatically improved since the beginning of the Chavez government, but there are still many problems, such as food hoarding by private grocery chains (to drive up prices) and various other kinds of economic corruption and crime that need addressing, for the sake of a healthy economy and social justice. This is not an extraordinary or illegal, or extralegal, governmental action in Venezuela, any more than was Congress' acquiescence to New Deal programs--and I must say that the ideas of the Chavez government are arrived at in a very similar way to the New Dealers, by consensus among many people in the administration, after lively and open discussion.

This Bushite notion of Chavez as a "dictator"--promoted by "hit and run" posters here at DU, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever--is absurd. Please name a single decree by Chavez--or any action by Chavez whatsoever--that has been unlawful, unwarranted, and unsupported by the majority of Venezuelans. Name one!

[DuaneBidoux]

47. If I'm not mistaken, Hitler asked to rule too.

[eridani]

19. Did you mean Alan Garcia of Peru, perchance?

Temporary permission for such is a feature of many Latin American constitutions, and those provisions far predate Garcia and Chavez.

[Joe Bacon]

55. Does that go for Pinochet, too?

:think:

[madeline_con]

2. Arms dealing's still big businees for Poland.

One of DUH-bya's first overseas trips after stealing his first election was to Poland.

Arms Deals Criticized as Corporate US Welfare
By Charles M. Sennott
Globe Staff

Tuesday 14 January 2003

LONDON - After Lockheed Martin clinched one of its largest deals ever in Europe, Prime Minister Leszek Miller of Poland was taken for a spin last week in the same kind of F-16 fighter jet that his country is purchasing. He watched from the cockpit while a second F-16 performed rolls and tactical maneuvers for his benefit.

Consider this private air show a kind of customer perk, which the Pentagon confirmed was paid for by the US government at the end of a long marketing campaign by Lockheed. The US government also provided a $3.8 billion loan to Poland, on very favorable terms, to finance the purchase of 48 F-16s, which are manufactured in President Bush's home state of Texas.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/011603F.arms.corp.welf.htm

And the beat goes on...

Bumar wins Iraq training contracts
Financial Times - <30/05/2007>


Poland’s Bumar arms manufacturer is scrambling aboard the latest trend in the industry, branching out from supplying bullets and tanks to getting involved in services – in this case training Iraqi special forces troops in Poland.

The company is also confident of winning a contract to send Polish teams to Iraq to train Iraqi soldiers in the use of Bumar’s Dzik armoured vehicles, says Waldemar Skowron, the company’s acting chief executive.

From Iraq Directory

http://www.iraqdirectory.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=3843

[originalpckelly]

3. So, in other words, you are saying Nobel Laureate Lech Walesa...

is a CIA plant. Anyone else?

[madeline_con]

4. No, but I'd say

Poland has a vested interest in being on DUH-bya's friends list.

[originalpckelly]

5. He isn't even in power! He even resigned from Solidarity because it supported a con party!

How the hell can a guy not even in power do as you say?

[madeline_con]

7. Look, take it however you like.

I posted an opinion, based on Poland's part in Iraq.

The guy offered Poland's support. He could be acting as a spokesman, or talking out of his ass. Who knows? But he offered Polish support.

[pork medley]

14. henry kissinger won a nobel prize

what's your point?

[entanglement]

54. Henry fucking Kissinger was a Nobel Laureate for crissakes

Doesn't mean a thing

[Evergreen Emerald]

21. Lech Walensa would never support oppression

His life-long battle against tyranny was amazing and awe-inspiring. If you don't know of him, you should read his writings. I love reading his books. He would never support Bush or his policies.

[IndianaGreen]

6. Walesa: the man that abolished abortion rights and gay rights in "free and democratic" Poland

Abortion and LGBT rights were guaranteed under the Communist government. Now that Poland is "free," there are no more abortion rights, and under Walesa's "democratic" successors, persecution of LGBTs is officially sanctioned and encouraged.

[madeline_con]

8. Thank you for rubbing some of the glitter off of ...

"Nobel Laureate Lech Walesa". I thought he might not be a saint. ;)

[rayofreason]

13. Gay rights in Communist Poland!?

Puleez. This is probably the silliest thing I've read all night. Ever heard of "Operation Hyacinth?" 1985, Poland.

Communist Poland, like all of the other Soviet-era dictatorships, had all kinds of "rights" enshrined in their "constitutions" that were not worth the paper they were printed on. My friends and I would laugh and say "Where do they get this stuff?" In private, of course, so as not to get arrested (so much for "freedom of speech"!). At least in the USSR they were (uncharacteristically) honest - homosexuality was flat out illegal.

Gay rights don't come about because someone legislates them. They come about because a society develops enough tolerance that prejudice against gays finds itself outside the pale of what is considered to be good behaviour. Laws follow that codify that general opinion. Without a generally understood social compact, laws cannot be effective on broad issues. Poland is a far more gay-friendly place now than it ever was in Soviet times. Chalk another one up for democracy!

[IndianaGreen]

38. Polish women no longer have abortion rights, and LGBTs are openly persecuted

Thanks to American-style "freedom and democracy," Polish women and LGBTs no longer enjoy rights they had under the "evil" Communists. Here is a May 2007 HRW petition:

Petition Poland: Hands Off Human Rights

In recent months and years, Polish leaders have threatened criminal sanctions against lesbian and gay activists and organizations, have tried to restrict freedoms of expression and association, and have even threatened violence against LGBT marchers.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/05/10/poland15894.htm

Poland: School Censorship Proposal Threatens Basic Rights

(New York, March 19, 2007) – The Polish government’s proposed legislation to censor all discussion of homosexuality in schools and other academic institutions would violate freedom of speech and impede free access to information, Human Rights Watch said today in a letter to Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

On March 13, the deputy minister of education, Miroslaw Orzechowski, said that the government is developing legislation to “punish anyone who promotes homosexuality” in schools and education establishments. Teachers, principals and students who violate the law could face dismissal, fines or prison terms.

HIV/AIDS educators who address safer sex for LGBT people would be banned from schools, as would all LGBT organizations. Orzechowski also announced on March 15 that “teachers who reveal their homosexuality will be fired from work.” The legislation, which has apparently been fast-tracked, could pass parliament by the end of the month.

“Polish authorities claim to be protecting families, but in fact they are trying to deny children free speech and lifesaving information on HIV/AIDS,” said Scott Long, director of Human Rights Watch’s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Rights Program. “Schools should be training grounds for tolerance, not bastions of repression and discrimination.”

At a summit of European Union education ministers, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Education Roman Giertych on March 1 claimed that children are receiving “propaganda about homosexuality,” adding that this “must be limited so children will have the correct view of the family.”

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/03/16/poland15512.htm

[rayofreason]

46. You seem to believe that there were gays rights under the communists.

Such a belief is ignorant. Please educate yourself.

http://www.globalgayz.com/g-poland.html

Regarding gay life today - there are plenty of links (such as http://warsaw.gayguide.net/ and the one above) that show that it is exists, despite the dissaproval of many conservative folks.

Not to say that Poland does not have a long way to - it does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Poland

Poland is a far less accepting place than other countries in Europe, but that will change in time. It is changing now.

But to suggest that the "communists" were somehow fiercely-open minded, leading the way the gay liberation, that they had actually achieved gay rights in the worker's paradise is ludicrous. The communists in Poland were what the communists were everywhere is in eastern Europe and the USSR - narrow-minded, bigoted, murderous, authoritarian, self interested losers who had to exhibit loyalty to Europe's only indigenous religion, one based on 19th century pseudoscence (so called "scientific socialism"). Good riddence to the lot of them and thier desctructive ideas that did so much damage over the decades.

[Solo_in_MD]

22. There were no gay rights anywhere under European communism

[pschoeb]

27. Incorrenct, for example East Germany

Built a state run gay disco in the 80's, and their statement in 1987 "homosexuality, just like heterosexuality, represents a variant of sexual behavior. Homosexual people do therefore not stand outside socialist society, and the civil rights are warranted to them exactly as to all other citizens."

[Centered]

64. did the club have special showers?

:sarcasm:

[devilgrrl]

65. I brought that up awhile back and was roundly flamed for it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2867778&mesg_id=2867778

[Andrushka]

9. Huh?

"Chavez is offering Venezuelans things "that don't belong to him.""

Well, yes. He's offering things that belong to all Venezuelans, like the fruits of their oil sales, for example.

Bad old Chavez, eh? :eyes:

[Tempest]

10. "eventually will have to pay for his populist policies"?

Does Walesa even know what the concept of populism is?

It sure doesn't appear so.

[Bozita]

11. Walesa needs to get back to investigating the TeleTubbies

Haven't you heard of Tinky-Winky's sexual proclivities?

Now that Jerry Falwell has died, it's good to see good ol' Lech is picking up the torch.

Bless Poland.

[ProudDad]

12. Walesa calling Chavez a demagogue

is a SEVERE case of the pot calling the kettle black.

That's Walesa's rep -- he's a right-wing patriarchal autocrat of the lowest order.

BFD...

On Edit:

"On December 9, 1990, Wałęsa won the presidential election to become president of Poland for the next five years. During his presidency, he started a so-called "war at the top" which practically meant changing the government annually. His style of presidency was strongly criticized by most of the political parties, and he lost most of the initial public support by the end of 1995."

Demagogue - - well, this asshole ought to know...


Nice try though. You anti-Chavez zealots are a kick... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[David__77]

15. This is ludicrous. Walesa complaining about populism?!

Populism was the entirety of Solidarity's platform, in addition to a little backward-looking clericalism.

Chavez is making a real revolution, and not a phony one. Walesa's a dried-up has-been, a relic of a bygone era.

[Peace Patriot]

17. Walesa's accusations make little sense, like many statements of the Bush

State Department about Venezuela, and they also have a tone of threat that is very similar. Chavez "eventually will have to pay for his populist policies." How? By getting assassinated by Bush's paramilitary goons in Colombia? By hostile Bush Cartel/World Bank financial manipulations? By another military coup attempt organized by John "death squad" Negroponte (the quite appropriate Bush Undersecretary of State for Latin America)?

And what are we to make of Chavez "offering Venezuelans things 'that don't belong to him'"? The oil? That was nationalized long before the Chavez government was elected. It belongs to the Venezuelan people, of which he is the president, by virtue of transparent elections in which, this last December, he won 60% of the vote. He is clearly acting for, and on behalf of, the people of Venezuela. He just re-negotiated the oil contracts with multinational corporations, in favor of the Venezuelan people--to provide more of the revenues of THEIR oil for purposes that they elected the Chavez government to enact. What is he "offering" that doesn't "belong to him"? The statement is non-sensical.

"I consider Chavez a demagogue...who says one thing and does another." But that is the opposite of the truth. Chavez is outspoken about what he's going to do--almost to a fault. He signals his intentions to the virulently fascist opposition way before he does things, and gives them plenty of time to mount protests (with USAID/NED help--our tax dollars at work), and to rant and rave against him on the almost entirely corporate/fascist-controlled TV/radio airwaves. Then he does exactly what he says he was going to do. Again, this accusation simply doesn't square with the facts. And "populist"? What's wrong with that? How is that an accusation? For the people? Democratically chosen by the majority? Likes to help the poor? Seems to me the world could use more populists. We could use some here, as a matter of fact. Leaders who actually like their people, and want to do well by them.

"There will come a time of truth, and then (Chavez) will have to pay for everything he has done." More threats. A low, black-hearted, sneering tone. What does this mean--"a time of truth"? What nasty plots is Walesa privy to? And what has Chavez done, other than heading the best government Venezuela has ever had--a government that encourages participation at every level, and that is using the country's resources to help the country's people?

I would ignore this rightwing blather, except that I think there is a real and serious threat to Chavez and to Constitutional government in Venezuela, and to the other leftist democracies in the Andes region (Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina)--which Walesa may have been making veiled reference to (a deliberate leak, or an indiscreet one?). I would expect that Negroponte and Zoelleck (World Bank) have something to do with it. And Walesa's hint is that it will be some kind of economic hit or punishment, since the U.S.-backed overthrow of the Venezuelan government by military coup failed, the U.S.-funded recall election failed, the oil professionals' strike failed, non-stop propaganda has failed, the plot against Chavez uncovered in the Colombian paramilitary scandals failed (--plot connected to the top echelons of the Uribe government, on which Bush has larded billions of our tax dollars in military aid), and the new leftist governments in South America, as a block--Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Nicaragua--have resisted and disdained all efforts of the Bush Junta to "isolate" Chavez and Venezuela (which was just elected to the OAS Human Rights Commission, over the Bushites' objections).

The Bush Junta must be desperate to destroy the Bolivarian revolution. Walesa should be ashamed to let himself to be used in this way.

[Judi Lynn]

25. The dark threat to Hugo Chavez coming from a right-winger reminds us of the Miami

right-wing terrorist/assassin, and friend of _{George H. W. Bush,} Felix Rodriguz.

Here's his photo, sitting with _{George H. W. Bush} at the Vice-President's mansion in Washington, D.C., in the 1980's, and with other CIA guys at a nightclub in Mexico City. He's the drunk lying on the stage, and Porter Goss is the one immediately behind him with his hand on his shoulder.



http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/AArodriguez1.jpg

Is Washington planning a bloodbath in Caracas?
by Stuart Munckton
April 05, 2005

The Venezuelan government headed by President Hugo Chavez repeatedly accused the US government of planning a “new aggression” against Venezuela, including a plot to assassinate Chavez, despite pro-Chavez forces winning nine national elections in six years. Caracas claims to have information of an assassination plot to be carried out “within 100 days” against Chavez, although the government has refused to reveal its sources.*

While Washington has dismissed the accusations as “ridiculous”, further evidence was provided by a mid-March interview on Miami’s Channel 22 TV station with former CIA agent Felix Rodriguez.

A March 17 /Washington Post/ article, entitled “Anti-Bush fears assassination”, reported that the previous week “former CIA operative and prominent Bush supporter” Rodriguez, when asked by his interviewer about the assassination plot accusations, stated ‘‘that he had information about the administration's plans to 'bring about a change' in Venezuela, possibly through 'military measures’”.

Rodriguez went as far as to set out possible scenarios. He said that an air-strike aiming to kill Chavez was one possibility, pointing to the bombing raid then US President Ronald Reagan ordered in 1986 to kill Libyan President Muammer Qadhafi (Qadhafi survived the raid, but his daughter was killed). The Cuban news agency Prensa Latina reported on March 15 that in the interview Rodriguez had stated that he personally expected to participate in a CIA operation to kill Chavez.
(snip/...)

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=7579

[Orrin_73]

18. What a dissapointment the eastern european anti commies

have become, first havel now walesa.

Go Chavez!!!

[eridani]

20. "Pay for everything he has done"

Like being tied up and shot like Allende in Chile, perhaps? Or being cut apart alive with chainsaws like his good buddy Uribe arranges for union organizers in Columbia? Lech likes chainsaws? Or maybe just having his head cut off and served on a dinner plate for the delectation of his family, like our "Freedom Fighters" did in El Salvador and Nicaragua?

[Judi Lynn]

24. Glad you reminded us. Those people scaled new heights of creativity carrying out

Reagan's (and the rest of the Washington radical right's) extreme death wishes for everyone in Central America they could hope to even remotely label a "leftist" or a "leftist sympathizer."

The old head on the plate at the table trick was the most vulgar, most evil one I've heard of yet. It rises above many other other evil acts of that era on it's simple, heartless sadism.

The right-wing chainsaw monsters working in Colombia hold that distinction today.

[EFerrari]

34. The last thing "he's done" is provide free eye care for 110 people

from El Salvador who otherwise would get none. He's gotta pay for that!

[Judi Lynn]

35. Oh, he's got no shame at all! First we heard of the UN announcing they had whipped

illiteracy, now he's grabbing power by bringing help, hope to the very ones who need it desperately!

He must be stopped at all costs, so globilization can triumph.

[donsu]

23. look whose talking! - Walesa knows all about demagogue

nt

[EFerrari]

29. There's something weird about this report. Did you read the article?

Maybe the VIO will issue a response.

[donsu]

31. Lech is probably getting paid to speak out - Cuba & Venz. are on

the neo con's list of countries to 'pacify' so US CEO's can make money

did I miss something?

[Judi Lynn]

32. The poor, sick, dazed bastard should have taken the time to learn the U.S. has had an embargo

for over 45 years on Cuba, one with extraterritorial reach which can punish other countries which do business with Cuba before he decided to condemn Cuba's economy.

Dumb, sick, self-centered a-hole should take time off his swaggering threats and admonitions to leftist countries and spend it learning the vital information he hasn't had time to realize yet.

He must have spent the last coupla decades DRUNK to have not noticed his yammerings have very little to do with reality.

[some guy]

42. thanks

I figured someone would already have noticed that part of the article.

Castro would probably be happy to move toward greater integration with the world economy, except for the US embargo, and also excepting the traditional US role of pillaging all of a country's assets and leaving the majority of the population destitute.

[EFerrari]

33. No, I thought maybe I had. These are BushCo talking points.

I wish I could read Polish!

[John Q. Citizen]

26. Has Lech comment on bush yet? Or is that off limits?

[pschoeb]

28. Considering Lech is in Peru getting an award from a Presisdent

Who in previous administration was involved in the disappearance of 1,600 persons, ties to right wing paramilitary death squads and of course ties to Columbian paramilitary drug dealers, he seems to be very hypocritically stupid.

[EFerrari]

30. And he's shilling for globalization.

:wtf:

[Judi Lynn]

36. Little discussed info. concerning Lech Walesa which got lost in the right-wing clamor

Lech Walesa, former leader of the anti-Communist Solidarity trade union movement, invoked anti-Jewish stereotypes while campaigning for the Polish presidency in the 1990.

Extremism Across Europe
Southern Poverty Law Center
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=145


~~~~~~~~~
Regrettably, Lech Walesa, hero of the Solidarity movement, has a history of acts and statements that are anti-Semitic. His close friend, Rev. Henryk Jankowski, whom I met when I visited Walesa in 1987, delivered a sermon in Walesa’s presence in which Jankowski, according to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, accused the Jews of “satanic greed” which “were the cause of communism and World War II.” The JTA reported that Walesa, when asked, “refused to repudiate the priest’s remarks.”


While a candidate for president of Poland, according to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, Walesa made “anti-Semitic remarks during his heated presidential race, implying his opponents were Jews.” He later apologized.
(snip)

Ed Koch
http://www.nypress.com/20/4/news&columns/opinion.cfm

[1932]

37. ...and didn't Walesa throw Poland's doors open to neoliberalism when he took over?

[Judi Lynn]

41. Not exactly the action of a man who claimed he had cast his lot with the working man, was it?

http://www.bettybowers.com.nyud.net:8090/graphics/but_poland.gif

[1932]

51. Walesa and neoliberalism

While both the Walesa and Mazowiecki camps generally supported neoliberal economic reforms after 1989 (sometimes called economic shock therapy), they disagreed on the appropriate pace of these reforms. Walesa advocated giving the government “fast track” powers to legislate economic reforms, because as the economic situation got worse, social trust for the reforms dissipated. He therefore wanted to force as many of these reforms through as quickly as possible. Many in Mazowiecki’s government, however, became wary of hastily introducing economic reforms that might have harmful social consequences, such as large-scale layoffs and significant decreases in social spending.

http://www.catholicbookclub.net/gettext.cfm?issueID=364&textID=4574

[IndianaGreen]

39. accused the Jews of “satanic greed” which “were the cause of communism and World War II.”

Oh, that's rich! Add to that new laws that infringed on abortion and LGBT rights, and we see the sort of "free and democratic" Poland we have now.

:puke:

[Judi Lynn]

40. That's so diseased. Not hard to grasp which side he would have favored in the 2nd World War. n/t

[MadHound]

43. Gee, wasn't this the same thing said about Walesa back in the day?

"I consider Chavez a demagogue and a populist, who says one thing and does another," I could swear I heard those same words applied to Walesa himself back in the day.

Put down the bottle Lech, sober up and then comment on politics. Otherwise your musings wind up sounding like whining.

[mitchum]

44. Says the superstitious peasant (n/t)

[UTUSN]

45. Lalalala, whistle whistle... n/t

[LynnTheDem]

48. Poland; "we've never made it secret that we're in it for Iraq's oil"

Poland, which has sent troops to support the US-led forces in Iraq, has acknowledged its "ultimate objective" is to acquire supplies of Iraqi oil.

"We have never hidden our desire for Polish oil companies to finally have access to sources of commodities,"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3043330.stm

[Judi Lynn]

49. Holy Smokes! Would NEVER have known this if you hadn't replayed it for us.

Never heard it the first time. Looks as if it has been far more profitable for them as U.S. stooges, doesn't it?

Love the last line of the article you posted:

It is the first time Poland has led such a large multinational peacekeeping force.
(snip)

PEACEKEEPING?

So THAT'S how they explain it to themselves! Since when do "peacekeepers" torment prisoners?

From a different article:

Poland rejects allegations of Iraqi prisoner abuse
AFP, May, 2004

WARSAW (AFP) — Poland, one of the top US allies in Iraq, rejected allegations that its troops serving with the US-led occupation forces there had abused prisoners.

"I categorically reject such reports," said army spokesman Colonel Zdzislaw Gnatowski referring to reports that originated in the United States and were carried by Polish radio stations.

"They are unfair... no more than a desperate attempt to dilute the sense of shame after the incidents in Abu Ghraib prison," he said Friday of the notorious jail outside Baghdad at the centre of the prisoner torture scandal.
(snip)

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_kmafp/is_200405/ai_kepm476963

http://liberationwashington.typepad.com.nyud.net:8090/tasse.jpg

[sanskritwarrior]

50. WOW Lech Walesa is the bad guy

and Hugo chavez is the good guy..........:banghead:

FRIKKING AMAZING..................I think I'm gonna vomit.

[1932]

52. See post 51. Chavez is anti-neoliberal and Walesa is neoliberal.

They have a basic philosophical difference.

In fact, Walesa is a "shock-therapist."

This is why he doesn't like Chavez.

[springhill]

57. Really, what is so amazing about that?

You have one leader who is an ongoing supporter of the supreme crime, war of aggression, and one who is not. That alone is enough for Lech Walesa to earn my disdain.

[sanskritwarrior]

58. Excuse me what crime has been committed?

where can I go to read the court proceedings on this crime???

[KAZ]

60. Hopefully on a different board. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

59. B-b-b-b-but he is a Nobel Peace Prize winner! That means he is incapable of speaking anything but

the absolute truth! That goes for Henry Kissinger, too! And if there had been more support for it, _{George W. Bush} would have been a Peace Prize winner a year or two ago when he was being pushed for a Prize, and he also would have been infallible.

Everyone knows how sacred the word of Henry Kissinger is, for chrissakes.

Ah, Poland, where the Parliament attempted to form a proclamation last year to designate Jesus as the "King of Poland," and the same country Pope John Paul said was able to shake off its former Communist government with the aid of the Virgin of Fatima. (That doesn't even include the assistance of the Catholic church and the really heavy work by NGO's from the United States.)

Now that Polish people are "free," thanks to people like Lech Walesa and his helpers from the U.S., they can help support _{George W. Bush's} completely underhanded and vicious war against a country's people who have NEVER, NEVER been a threat to Americans, and they can rejoice at the slaughter and desperate suffering Iraqis who have "survived" will mourn for generations to come.



Mr. Walesa visits with #41.

[Nihil]

63. Ah but the good news ...

... is that you seem to have understood something:

> WOW Lech Walesa is the bad guy
> and Hugo chavez is the good guy ...

Glad to see that your perseverance with DU has paid off! :hi:

> I think I'm gonna vomit.

Don't worry, it's probably just the years of poisonous misunderstandings
that are finally coming out. With a bit of luck, you'll hatch into a
fully-awake Democrat!
:P

[junior college]

53. This is why we shouldn't name streets after people while their still alive.

In San Francisco we changed the name of one of our streets to Lech Walesa St. Now, with a good deal of embarrassment, we're trying to change it back to its original name.

[Judi Lynn]

67. Not a moment too soon, either! Good luck.

Welcome to D.U., junior college. :hi: :hi: :hi:

[dansolo]

56. It sounds like Walesa is siding with the oligarchs.

Specifically what "things" is he referring to? Chavez is nationalizing certain industries and funneling the money into infrastructure, social programs, and paying off the debt that was owed.

[conspirator]

61. F*UCK YOU WALESA. Who are you to decide what belongs to the people or not? nt

[JVS]

62. Meet the kettle you fucking pot!

You and your fucking scab-adarity bullshit can go to hell.

[HannibalBarca]

66. Hugo is above reproach

he cannot be criticised by anyone, Viva Chavez etc. /sarcasm