Anglicans 'obsessed' by gay issue

[IndianaGreen]

Source: BBC News

Last Updated: Saturday, 26 May 2007, 13:26 GMT 14:26 UK

Anglicans 'obsessed' by gay issue

By Mike Lanchin
BBC News religious affairs correspondent

Archbishop Desmond Tutu has called on Africa's Anglican church to overcome its "obsession" with the issue of gay priests and same-sex marriages.

He said they should spend time on more pressing issues in the region.

Speaking to the BBC World Service, the South African bishop said Zimbabwe, HIV/Aids and the crisis in Darfur were not getting sufficient attention.

Zimbabwe's Anglican church also lacked courage to stand up to President Robert Mugabe's regime, he said.



Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6694985.stm

---

"Bishop Tutu is a phoney!"

-- Jerry Falwell

Falwell was a supporter of the apartheid regime of South Africa, and he used the pulpit to preach racism.

[OneBlueSky]

1. I think we're being too hard on Falwell . . . he did, after all, provide a valuable service . . .

he was a time saver . . . rather than having to fully investigate each and every issue to figure out where you stand, all you had to do was follow Falwell's lead . . .

if he was against it, you were for it . . .

if he was for it, you were against it . . .

probably saved a lot of people lots of time and energy, don'tcha think? . . . :sarcasm:

[IndianaGreen]

3. Not only Falwell, but Pat Robertson was another that we did the opposite of what he said

Robertson called Nelson Mandela a terrorist that should rot in jail, so we supported his release.

Better still:

Whatever Bush is for, we are against. Whatever Bush is against, we are for.

[marshall]

15. What exactly is Tutu saying?

Is he saying African Anglicans should just not get involved either for or against the issue?

[wryter2000]

20. My understanding

There's been tremendous backlash against the American Episcopal church (Anglican) for ordaining Eugene Robinson a bishop. Bishop Tutu is telling them to get over it and start worrying about real issues.

[WyLoochka]

28. I thought it was pretty clear

that he was saying precisely that many African Anglicans are obsessive about their anti-gayness - meanwhile the continent is plagued with some horrendous problems such as HIV/AIDS and the genocide in Darfur that aren't being adequately addressed by the church.

Which is not even remotely the same thing, let alone "exactly" to use your word, as saying African Anglicans should not get involved with "the issue" at all. Sheez what a leap that was, imo.

There is a big difference between having an opinion and expressing it and being "obssessive" about forcing everyone else to go along with your opinion or else...as several of the African Anglican Bishops ARE doing.

[shenmue]

2. Some churches are making efforts to convert Anglicans...

on the basis that they won't have to deal with gay marriages elsewhere.

:grr:

[struggle4progress]

4. Following the Money (Jim Naughton)

~snip~ Millions of dollars contributed by a handful of donors have allowed a small network of theologically conservative individuals and organizations to mount a global campaign that has destabilized the Episcopal Church and may break up the Anglican Communion.

The donors include five secular foundations that have contributed heavily to politically conservative advocacy groups, publications and think tanks, and one individual, savings and loan heir Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr., who has given millions of dollars to conservative causes and candidates.

Contributions from Ahmanson and the Bradley, Coors, Olin, Scaife and Smith-Richardson family foundations have frequently accounted for more than half of the operating budgets of the American Anglican Council and the Institute on Religion and Democracy, according to an examination of forms filed with the Internal Revenue Service and an analysis of statements made by both donors and recipients.

The AAC and the IRD have worked together in opposing the Episcopal Church's consecration of a gay bishop with a male partner, its practice of ordaining non-celibate homosexuals to the priesthood, and its willingness to permit the blessing of same-sex relationships. Their campaign has entailed extensive international travel, heavily subsidized conferences and the employment of a professional staff and consultants to coordinate and publicize their efforts. ~snip~

http://www.edow.org/follow/part1.html

A few rich wingnuts are funding a schism in the Anglican communion -- for political reasons

[annabanana]

5. Well Well Well. . If it isn't our old pals the VRWC!

Our Pastor is a good friend of Bisop Robinson, and he is so distressed and disheartened by the schism that this whole business has caused. I am forwarding this link to him and letting him know that these names and tactics are VERY familiar to us in the Progressive online communites.

There is nothing that they will not attack and attempt to destroy.

[DemoTex]

7. My friend was the only member of the Texas delegation to support V. Gene Robinson.

My friend, Rev. Dr. Mark Anshutz, was rector of St. Michael and All Angels Episcopal church in Dallas' Highland Park area. Mark supported Gene Robinson for bishop from the get-go. In fact, Mark was the only member of the Texas delegation .. clergy or lay .. who supported and voted for Bishop Robinson. It cost Mark his job. Mark retired early because of the firestorm in the Texas Episcopal church.

Texas's big, big loss. Cape Cod's, and God's gain.

[struggle4progress]

11. The Park Cities are wingnut country, so the forced resignation is unsurprising

[wryter2000]

19. This, indeed, has been very hard on the American church

I so admire them for doing the right thing when the rest of the world of their faith is behaving so badly.

[xxqqqzme]

10. good article - about the reporter

http://www.beliefnet.com/author/author_113.html

'... Jim Naughton is a former reporter for The New York Times and The Washington Post who writes frequently on religion, higher education, and sports. His work has appeared in Slate, ESPN: The Magazine, and The Washington Post Magazine...'

Read a couple of his coluums @ beliefnet.com. Gonna have to go back for more...not much that is reasonable these days.

[kwassa]

18. Jim Naughton is the Communications Director for the Episcopal Diocese of

Washington, from which the article about the money comes.

He also runs a good blog, the Daily Episcopalian, which recently morphed into the Episcopal Cafe

http://episcopalcafe.com/

I also recommend Father Jake Stops the World, probably the busiest blog.

http://frjakestopstheworld.blogspot.com/

[wryter2000]

21. Is Bishop Spong still writing?

I used to get his newsletter but haven't received one in a long time.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. He has a new book out recently

but I can't recall the title of it.

Maybe he's busy doing book tours. :-)

[wryter2000]

39. I have more of his books around the house than I can read :-)

My husband (a dedicated non-believer) adored Bishop Spong. I'm an agnostic, my own self, but I was raised Episcopal, and I have tremendous respect for the American church. It was such a relief to rediscover Christianity as a message of love, as opposed to the Falwells, etc.

[Beth in VT]

32. You have to pay. Here is a link:

http://secure.agoramedia.com/spong/index_spong2.asp?sc=8&promo=8E8054FA-64A6-4100-9B08-37F4592A6F13&email=

[wryter2000]

38. I did pay

They used to charge my credit card. Maybe they lost me or something. Thanks for the info.

For clarity: I got the newsletters I paid for, but they forgot to renew me.

[SharonAnn]

12. Same with the Catholics.

[annabanana]

6. Can we get some Recommends on this thread...?

There are a buncha liberal clergy-type people here who ought to see this.

[MasonJar]

8. Your friend Dr. Mark did the right thing. If he would be willing to leave Texas

I am sure he could find work in many dioceses. Our bishop has stood tall for the homosexuals, including Father Robinson, in spite of dissension in some powerful churches. This is the way Christianity is supposed to work. Jesus did not exclude; neither should the Anglicans/Episcopalians. Most of the split appears to be in Africa. As Bishop Tutu says, the African ministry has more important missions to accomplish.

[xxqqqzme]

9. happy to be the 5th

BTW, that's an old, old Anglican joke - whenever 4 Episcopalians gather, you'll find a fifth.

(oops I meant to reply to #6)

[JerseygirlCT]

14. CT's bishop, Drew Smith, was quite supportive too

by his account to our parish.

In fact, the entire New England delegation was. Which is not surprising, but good to hear all the same.

And Bishop Smith has no ok'd some same-sex blessings, considering CUs are the law in CT now. I'm glad he's come around to that. All this in spite of the well-funded "CT Six" causing him untold amounts of trouble.

Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if IRD ran out of money? (Not going to happen with those pockets, but a girl can still daydream)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Bishop Robinson preached at my church about three years ago

He didn't preach about sexuality or mention the controversy about himself except in a humorous way. His election as bishop had been confirmed at the Minneapolis General Convention, so he joked about how nice it was to come to Minneapolis, open the morning paper, and find that he wasn't on the front page.

After getting that out of the way, he preached about one of the Bible readings appointed for the day--and very well, too.

[Orsino]

16. "More pressing"?

So gays are still a problem--just less so than Darfur? "Homosexuality: not quite a holocaust!"

Tutu has done such wonderful work. It's a shame he's still tied to an institution so wrapped up in the hatred of gays and women.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. Did you read any of the posts other than the OP?

By the way, South Africa (where most of the ethnic English and African Christians are Anglican) is one of the few countries in the world to legalize same-sex marriage, as of 2006.

[Orsino]

24. Yeah. The crowning irony is that South Africa...

...once the bastion of apartheid, now leads the US in full civil rights for gays.

[FarrenH]

42. I have to add

that its not just ordinary law, but the constitution in South Africa that protects gays. People are specifically protected from discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation.

The funny thing is the majority of South Africans, black and white, are still uncomfortable with gays. But some progressive thinkers got their word in during the new-constitution making process and gays were protected from later tyranny of the majority. The constitution's a credit to all concerned - including not only South Africans, but retired judges and other sage advisors from around the world.

[wryter2000]

22. I think you're misunderstanding Bishop Tutu

He means that the fact that the church ordained a gay man a bishop isn't a problem.

BTW, the American church is now headed by a woman. I don't know if the rest of the world is picking on them for that, too.

[Orsino]

23. No, I get him, I think.

Tutu's great, and I wish all the rest of his church were so fully evolved.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. Oh yes, Bishop Jefferts-Schori is definitely an issue

A couple of the Third World bishops snubbed her.

Jefferts-Schori is the first woman presiding bishop in the U.S. Episcopal church, but there are other woman diocesan bishops and there have been since the mid-1990s.

[TrogL]

41. Edmonton, Alberta Canada has a woman bishop

Caused quite the stir at the time.

[leftist.]

34. Hating gayz iz hard work!

It's hard work for me to hate them RIGHT NOW! And it's time for bed, so you know I'm putting in overtime!

ps - I'm trying to hate them now!

[JerseygirlCT]

29. I think you're misunderstanding

I believe his point was directed to the men like Peter Akinola (Archbishop, Nigeria) who, with IRD funding, have started the attack on TEC because of its support for Gene Robinson and inclusion of GLBT.

He's saying to them that if they were truly concerned, they'd spend less time focused on a war against gays (look into what Akinola's been up to in Nigeria with that, if you don't already know) and more on basic humanitarian needs such as those in Darfur.

Tutu has been a supporter of inclusion. Believe me, he's not the enemy here, nor is TEC.

[FarrenH]

36. Tutu has always been uneqivocally supportive of gays

Tutu on homosexuality:

Black and white, rich and poor, gay and straight, Jew and Arab, Muslim and Christian, Hindu and Buddhist, Hutu and Tutsi, Pakistani and Indian—all belong. When we start to live as brothers and sisters and to recognize our interdependence, we become fully human.

Dr Tutu, who was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984, told journalists that gay hate was the same as racism.

"For one to penalise someone for their sexual orientation is the same as penalising someone for something they can do nothing about, like ethnicity or race.

"I cannot imagine persecuting a minority group which is already being persecuted."

Desmond Tutu, Anglican archbishop of Cape Town and a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, has spoken out in defense of gay Christians who are members of the Lutheran church in Norway. Archbishop Tutu, one of the leading opponents of racial discrimination during South Africa's apartheid era, has drawn a link between apartheid and discrimination against lesbians and homosexual men.

He has compared anti-gay laws to Apartheid laws on several occasions and told an American interviewer that (paraphrase) if God made gay people attracted to members of the same sex, he probably intended them to have sex with members of the same sex.

I'm an atheist but I've yet to find a single important issue I disagree with Tutu on. He's a beacon of reason in the society I live in.

[Orsino]

37. Uh-huh. "More pressing" isn't a direct quote from Tutu.

At least, I hope it isn't. I'm not blaming Tutu for it.

[wryter2000]

40. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[bamacrat]

27. Ive always heard that the people who are the most anti-gay are doing so to repress theri feelings.

Maybe the gay bashers out there are just afraid of who they really are.

[davsand]

30. Will the Anglicans be moving to Poland any time soon?

Given the other LBN story about Poland's investigation into the gay Teletubbies, I'd assume that would be a great place for gay obsessed Anglicans to be...



Laura

[Slyder]

31. My church recently left the Episcopal Diocese of Kansas

and has become a sort-of generic Anglican and has put itself under the authority of an African bishop. When I defended Bishop Robinson recently, a member told me I was cherry-picking my scripture.

What I don't understand then about this gay issue is why these angry former Episcopalians are so upset about gay sex, when other sexual perversions are ignored. For instance, in Mark 10:11 Jesus denounces divorce and remarriage, calling it adultery. Divorce followed by a remarriage is as perverted as any homosexual act according to the Bible. Both perversions are to be punished by death. Why are divorced and remarried people allowed in the church but gay people aren't? Who then is picking and choosing his scripture? Are they the next pariahs to be kicked out of these new-fangled Anglican churches?

Then, of course, there in the Biblical injunction, in both the Old and New Testaments, against collecting interest on money. But that will be left for another day.

[leftist.]

33. To the repub lurkers, srsly, doesn't hating gays get confusing?

It's hard work, srsly. It's almost like being president. What exactly did teh gays do to you? Just asking.

[Riverman]

35. Simply Put: What is Repressed, is Obsessed!