Dean Rebuked for Statement Implying Brother Served in Military

[DemBones DemBones]

Discussed on "Washington Journal" this morning.

New York Times

Dean Rebuked for Statement Implying Brother Served in Military
By JODI WILGOREN

Published: December 23, 2003

PEMBROKE, N.H., Dec. 22 — Howard Dean came under criticism from an Iowa newspaper last weekend for an answer to a questionnaire in which he implied that his brother was serving in the military when he disappeared in Laos 29 years ago. His brother had been traveling in Southeast Asia as a tourist.

Asked by The Quad-City Times, which is based in Davenport, Iowa, to complete the sentence "My closest living relative in the armed services is,"
Dr. Dean wrote in August, "My brother is a POW/MIA in Laos, but is almost certainly dead."

<snip>

His answer to the newspaper's question, published on Dec. 14 as part of a regular feature on The Quad-City Times's editorial page in which the Democratic presidential candidates respond to questions intended to probe their persona, drew complaints from readers and a rebuke from the newspaper's editorial board on Sunday. The editorial was circulated to a handful of reporters on Monday by a rival campaign.

<snip>

"This is the latest in a string of incidents in which Dr. Dean, the former governor of Vermont, who has drawn support with his blunt remarks, has attracted controversy with imprecise statements. His rivals have frequently turned his own words against him to argue that he has switched positions on critical issues like Medicare or trade, and to question whether he is ready for the presidency. Earlier this month, he offered "an interesting theory" about whether President Bush had warning of the Sept. 11 attacks, something he later said he never believed. And he apologized last month for the way he phrased his desire to reach out to Southern white voters who have deserted the Democratic Party. He had said he wanted to be the candidate for "guys with Confederate flag decals on their pickup trucks."

At a town hall meeting in Exeter, N.H., on Monday afternoon, Dr. Dean referred to the centrist Democratic Leadership Council as "the Republican part of the Democratic Party" even while talking about the need to bring unity among Democrats.

more. . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/23/politics/campaigns/23DEAN.html

[Gman]

1. Mary Matalin framed Dean perfectly Sunday when she said

MS. MATALIN: I think his ability to speak his mind is initially impressive. But he also appears to be the kind of guy who lets no thought go unexpressed. It's like--and he says he has inconsistent thoughts. There's a difference between speaking your mind and saying everything that floats through your mind.

Regardless of what you think of Matalin, you can't deny she's right on the money with her analysis of Dean.

Is this the beginning of the expected Dean implosion?

[MaineDem]

2. That's been my impression, as well

I'm sure he probably means well but I just don't have faith in his abilities.

[Warren Stuart]

6. If Mary Matalin is your source for inspiration

Then you and I ain't got much to discuss.

[Gman]

14. Your comment says nothing about Dean's propensity to not just

speak his mind, but everything that goes through his mind. Matalin just so happened to sum up Dean's biggest fault very succinctly which tells us that the GOP will make hamburger out of Dean in November.

[Warren Stuart]

20. I'm sorry, I don't have cable and rarely watch TV

So I'm not clued in to the latest RNC spin points.

From what I've read abour Dr. Dean, I tend to agree with most of what he says. I don't buy your analysis.

Please explain what you mean by speaking "everything that goes through his mind", this literally cannot be true.

[Jerseycoa]

43. I find this a good example, actually

'At a town hall meeting in Exeter, N.H., on Monday afternoon, Dr. Dean referred to the centrist Democratic Leadership Council as "the Republican part of the Democratic Party" even while talking about the need to bring unity among Democrats.'

[Cheswick2.0]

49. yes , a good example of telling the truth

the DLC is the reason Gore didn't run and they are the reason democrats lost so badly in 2002. They are republicans in donkey suits. At one time they were just a group who came together to elect democrats, but then they were taken over by the leadership of a couple of unelected political hacks who as far as I can see are being paid off to do the RNC's bidding.

[Cheswick2.0]

45. Matalin is a mediawhore like her husband...she just happens to be

a vicious republican one. I see you are falling in line with her talking points. How sad that you are so determined to promote Clark that you would sink to her level.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

87. Maybe you should have done a proper search before posting...

...on this subject. Here's the link you've been asking for:

Department of Defense -
Defense Prisoner of War/Missing Personnel Office
<http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmsea/files.htm>

....click on "D"....

....scroll down and click on "Dean, Charles"

....you should see the following:

DEAN, CHARLES

SERVICE: US CIVILIAN ( Complete Service Report )
STATUS: MM - MISSING IN ACTION
(PRESUMPTIVE FINDING OF DEATH NOT RECORDED FOR CIVILIANS)
DATE OF INCIDENT: 1974/09/10
HOME OF RECORD: NY ( Complete State Report )
COUNTRY OF LOSS: LAOS
VEHICLE TYPE: GROUND

[YEM]

13. Seems you guys will stop nothing while slinging!!!

It really is pathetic what I have seen on this board. Why don't I see Dean supporters bashing other candidates. I'll tell you that I am a Dean supporter and I can sling PLENTY at the other candidates, but choose not to. Really sad thing to see here!

[AngryAmish]

48. Because Dean is the frontrunner

I have not chosen a candidate and do not have to until March. But, Dean will be attacked, fairly and/or unfairly, because he is in the lead.
That said, I do not mind a rough and tumble campaign. But I do want everyone to realize Bush is hitler.

edited for spelling

[neuvocat]

90. You're obviously joking.

Dean supporters had a tough time with their candidate being bashed. Now that Clark has entered the race they're worse than anyone else here.

[san antonio]

116. Dean brought it on himself...

Dean had been bashing people in both the left and right. What did you expect them to do? Sit on their hands and let him do it?

[Cheswick2.0]

41. Mary Matalin is now doing our thinking for us?

But I will say he is right about the DLC. They are the republican wing of the party and Clark does seem to be their candidate.

[zulchzulu]

47. Carville said pretty much the same thing

Add Matalin, Carville, Satelan and dozens of other journalists that see Dean as being sloppy with his dialogue...

I guess it's their fault what Dean says.

[Cheswick2.0]

76. James Carville is a mediawhore

paid by CNN to be a pundit on that ridiculously scripted flame fest they call crossfire.

He is also a DLC errand boy lately. Sad how the mighty have fallen.

[Tinoire]

83. Carville is no hero

He's a media whore of the worst kind who tried to sell his PR services to Israel to help them "re-make" their image after pictures & articles of the despicable things they were doing to the Palestinians started swinging US and world opinion against Israel.

Unfortunately, Carville's price was too high so they went with a less expensive PR firm.

[The Stranger]

50. I'm trying to make sense of this sentence.

It's like--and he says he has inconsistent thoughts.

They're just trying to find something to pin on the frontrunner. This is the only candidate who will admit that there is an elephant in the room and that the emperor wears no clothes. If this shortcircuits small minds, then so much the better.

[RetroLounge]

57. Still quoting right wing media whores?

Get a new shtick, you're getting boring.

Next thing you know you'll be quoting Rush and Hannity, if they suit your agenda.

and yes, sorry, I can deny she's right on the money.

[October]

68. The one who posted this thread should've let this thought go unexpressed

[polpilot]

110. Surely you mean the expected 'explosion' as his numbers scream

upward. Surely no one doubts Dean's political abilities and prowess...not at this late date in the game...when the scorecards are in?

Dean '04...

[Skittles]

113. with all due respect

that crazy witch Mary has no business "analyzing" ANYONE.

[Gman]

118. Everyone attacks Matalin

rather than refute what she said. Dean's propensity to open mouth-insert foot is becoming legendary. This spells doom for us in November. I wonder if we at least can win in '08?

[GalleryGod]

120. I Hate the HAG..But She's Right On Point!

Mary...accuracy by seminal injection!:shrug:

[mikehiggins]

3. Oh, boy. Wanna see something that could cause Dean a world of hurt?

This is a good example.

Unless there the whole story of Dr. Dean's brother is a coverup for some military operation, there is no way the man was a POW or MIA.

Remember all those black and white flags hanging around the USA? There is still one hanging in front of my union hall in NYC, for example.

They refer to men who disappeared into Vietnamese hands and were never accounted for. Sweeping the POW/MIA issue under the carpet was one of the underlying reasons Perot first took on George I, with such serendipitously beneficial results for the nation (and Linda Tripp, of course. Karma is funny sometimes).

If this newspaper actually has a statement from Dean that his brother was a POW/MIA he will have to explain what he meant and do it in a New York minute. Otherwise I recommend to Dean that he think back to John Lindsey who ran for President and was followed around the US by people advertising his conduct as NYC mayor.

You don't want to have those people with the black flags protesting your candidate.

[mouse7]

4. Dean's brother was listed by PENTAGON as POW/MIA

The worst kept secret in DC right now is that Howard Dean's brother was working for the CIA in Laos when he was killed.

Why do you think the Pentagon paid for the operation to recover his body?

Translation: Don't go there. You REALLY don't wanna start talking trash about a man's just-buried brother.

[Bozola]

12. Yep.

I do not see the point of this article except as a part of a campaign of "disinformation".

[DemBones DemBones]

26. And you know this how? Got a link to

anything substantive?

IF he was CIA and the family is not allowed to say so, Dean should still not imply he was in the military.

[Cheswick2.0]

58. Is your google broken?

?

[Cooley Hurd]

74. Since you're fond of quoting Republican sources on the subject...

Here's a story from FauxNews:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103419,00.html

<snip>
Charles Dean, although a civilian, was considered by the U.S. government to have been a prisoner of war. The effort to recover the bodies of Dean and Sharman was coordinated by the Defense Department's Joint Task Force Full Accounting, a Pentagon unit created 11 years ago to find remains of Americans missing in Indochina.
</snip>

Sorry, this is a non-issue... Why participate in the obvious "Goreing" of the Democratic front runner?

ABB, man!

[AngryAmish]

52. I heard the same thing

Obviously, not a lot of tourists were in Laos/Cambodia at the time. But I do not know. (BTW, I do not have any inside poop, just web chatter etc.) Is there a link about his brother and CIA?

[bedtimeforbonzo]

105. He was CIA

That's my best guess, anyway.

[neverforget]

106. Please mouse7, tell me your source for Dean's brother was in the

CIA.

[bearfartinthewoods]

108. they paid for the operation to recover the body because until it has been

IDed, there is no way of telling if it's the body of a serviceperson who is entitled the honor and support of the pentagon or a tourist.

[DoctorMyEyes]

114. Bullshit!

what a dumb ass thing to say.

[Warren Stuart]

5. I'm confused

Wasn't his brother officially listed as POW/MIA?

[Jerseycoa]

7. I'm confused,too

I thought I had read he was an anti-Vietnam War protestor.

[mouse7]

9. He did have a cover story.

He was in Laos illegally. He had to have a cover story.

[Jerseycoa]

15. CIA?

So he was working for the CIA undercover as a war protestor?

[mouse7]

17. I don't remember pro-war people being allowing in.

Jane Fonda got to go to Hanoi to protest against the war. John Wayne did not get to go to Hanoi to protest for the war.

A cover story of being a leftist radical is a pretty good way to get along with leftists.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Hanoi is in Vietnam. This story is about Laos. Different countries

Lets not make this more confusing than it already is.

Don

[Jerseycoa]

23. Growing less confused

If I understand this now, Charles Dean was a CIA infiltrator in the anti-war movement. Is this correct?

[bearfartinthewoods]

44. correct if you are willing to accept unsubstantuated deanspin

[mouse7]

27. I've clean run outta Communist Laos material.

You're just gonna have to slum it with my generic Communist South-East Asian material.

However... since you were critical, I'm sure it because you're just bursting with Communist Laos material of your own to share.

Please go ahead...

[DemBones DemBones]

29. Facts seem to make you angry, and rude. eom

[mouse7]

36. I'm not mad.

I just clicked alert a few time and handed it all off to the moderators.

[Cheswick2.0]

54. facts? I see no facts here

He was talking about getting into communist countries in general. He never said Dean was going to Hanoi in particular.

[NNN0LHI]

60. Perhaps you didn't see the post I was responding to? Here it is again

mouse7 (299 posts) Tue Dec-23-03 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #15

17. I don't remember pro-war people being allowing in.


Jane Fonda got to go to Hanoi to protest against the war. John Wayne did not get to go to Hanoi to protest for the war.

A cover story of being a leftist radical is a pretty good way to get along with leftists.

[Cheswick2.0]

63. perhaps you have a problem understanding my point

I could help you with that.
Start with this excercise:

Some grifs are sneetches
Some sneetches are spifs

All grifs are spifs.... true or false

IN other words saying two other people tried to get into hanoi is not the same as saying Dean tried to get into Hanoi. Understand now?

[NNN0LHI]

66. No dout you have shown your ignorance. ..again n/t

[NashVegas]

31. Who Knows?

The CIA isn't entirely comprised of "cowboys." Unless whomever is trying to use this as an attack on Dean knows something we don't, it's a silly strategy.

[libview]

92. LOL!

[mouse7]

8. Yep... officaiily listed by Pentagon as MIA

Dean is about to urinate all over some reporters desk. That reporter better stay off the phone today. Dean will bite that man's ear off if he puts it to the phone.

You just don't go after a candidate's just-buried brother.

[MIMStigator]

101. Dean brother listed as MM

and the question didn't ask about MIA or MM it asked for closest living relative in ARMED SERVICES

[velocity]

10. The Clark Supporters have found their "I INVENTED the Internet"

and we will be hearing a lot of stuff like that.

Pentagon did list his brother POW/MIA...

[mojo2004]

21. POW yes, MIA no....

but no matter how this is spun, Dean has to take responsibility for the deception. He should have said, "While not in the military, my brother was a POW in Vietnam and is probably dead." That would have been an honest answer with no deception. The way Dean answered it looks misleading, but we have to wait to see how Dean responds.

[mouse7]

28. Nooo... Pentagon Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command is

News-Info-Alerts

Re: Laotian Grave Reveals 29-Year Mystery

From: POW-MIA InterNetwork

Date: November 19, 2003

"Laotian grave reveals an answer to a 29-year mystery

By Marian Wilkinson United States Correspondent
Washington

Presidential candidate Howard Dean reacted sombrely to the news that the remains of his brother Charlie and his companion, the Australian journalist Neil Sharman, may have been recovered - 29 years after they were murdered by guerillas in Laos.

"This has been a long and emotional journey", said Dr Dean. "We greet this news with mixed emotions, but are gratified that we may now be approaching closure to this painful episode in our lives."

The Pentagon yesterday confirmed that the remains believed to be those of Charlie Dean and Neil Sharman were excavated from a Laotian rice field on November 8 and will be sent to a military laboratory in Hawaii for identification at the end of this month.

Dr Dean said he was confident the remains were those of his brother, but a spokesman for the Pentagon's office handling Missing in Action searches said they could not yet confirm the identity of the remains.

"We found a number of remains and fragments, but the number of individuals represented here cannot be confirmed until the lab finishes its work," said Larry Greer, of the Pentagon.

The three-decade search for the two men, who disappeared in Laos in 1974, has been a frustrating quest for both the families and the Pentagon Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command office.

Charlie Dean, a political activist, and Sharman went to communist-controlled Laos apparently investigating the war.

The two were taken prisoner by the Pathet Lao, who believed they were spies. They were killed on the way to the North Vietnamese border in December 1974.

Mr Greer said the Pentagon had conducted seven investigations in Laos, in which many witnesses were interviewed. "They accumulated a lot of evidence, including interviews with villagers and so on, to a likely place to where remains could be discovered, then they schedule the excavation," he said.

His younger brother's disappearance had a huge impact on Howard Dean and focused his early career in medicine. In February last year, Dr Dean went to Laos to join the Pentagon team searching for his brother's remains.

©2003 The Age Company Ltd"

http://www.aiipowmia.com/inter23/in201103grave.html

Trying to score points off a man's dead brother, huh? You guys have no shame.

[mojo2004]

37. Pentagon may group them together....

for consolidation reasons, but Charlie is not an MIA, but a POW. The answer was misleading. I am sure Howard can respond to this and take responsibility for the mistake. It is mostly political attack, but it must be responded to.

[Jerseycoa]

51. Excuse me

The original poster is a Kucinich supporter from the looks of his sig. In any case, a news story is open to discussion here, no?

[Cheswick2.0]

56. it is disapointing how some Clark supporters will use

the same kind of tactics used by Karl Rove. But they just aren't very smart doing it. Everytime Dean gets attacked more people sign up to work for him. Democrats in general are tired of republican type dirty tricks.

[Cooley Hurd]

78. Yes, Howard Dean spoke correctly...

...when he called his brother a POW/MIA. Here's confirmation from, of all sources, FauxNews:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103419,00.html

<snip>
Charles Dean, although a civilian, was considered by the U.S. government to have been a prisoner of war. The effort to recover the bodies of Dean and Sharman was coordinated by the Defense Department's Joint Task Force Full Accounting, a Pentagon unit created 11 years ago to find remains of Americans missing in Indochina.
</snip>

[libview]

93. Thank god Dean had that back problem, he could have

been POW/MIA too.

[Sideways]

98. Oh Real Smooth Move

Expect to be here long?

No I don't think so. Tut tut are you always so obvious?

[davhill]

11. CIA operatives serve there country as bravely as any

Without the public honor we give to the uniformed services. I doubt if Bush will declasify the identity of Dr. Dean's brother before the election.

[Jerseycoa]

40. Yes, that's right

I just wonder if the baby-boomers of the Vietnam era will take kindly to this. CIA infiltrators into the anti-war movement were despised back then and held responsible for many arrests and ruined lives. It's a long time ago, so maybe not.

What I do see as Dean's real problem with his late brother's story is something else, and I have said it here before. There are remains of military MIAs still over there that have not returned. I read that Dean's brother was placed ahead of a two-year waiting list for return and military families are very upset over it.

This is the story I see being played: Howard Dean's brother's remains were returned and buried with full honors at a time when the White House had decreed a blackout on returning dead soldiers from Iraq. This is where it's a PR nightmare for Dean. And he can say all he wants he had nothing to do with it, it won't help. I said this was a GOP setup and I still believe it.

[Cheswick2.0]

61. attacking someones dead brother is a really stupid strategy

I wouldn't go there. It is really a non issue in this election. Don't say I didn't warn you.

[Jerseycoa]

75. And don't say I didn't warn you

"attacking someones dead brother is a really stupid strategy"

This is lame, because whether they want it to be or not, it will be an issue in this election. There's no escaping it and the Dean campaign might as well be better prepared than the Times article suggests.

If they'd go after triple amputee Vietnam veteran Max Cleland, what makes you think Charles Dean will be exempt? He won't.

[yellowcanine]

82. "I read that Dean's brother was placed ahead of a two-year waiting ..."

Oh yes, the old "I read somewhere" gambit. If you are going to spread rumor about somebody, the least you could do is give some type of citation so that we can judge the value of the information. If it was the Bleepfield Gazette, say that. If it was your brother-in-law, say that. Then at least we can judge the value of it.

[Jerseycoa]

84. Fair enough

I'll look for it. I'm not in the habit of compiling Dean articles, but okay, I'll take the time to search.

[Jerseycoa]

91. On return: Judge the value of it

The value of it is it's right wing crap. I can't find a single respectable link to information that military families are upset that Charles Dean's body tube was covered with an American flag or moved ahead of other POW/MIAs on the return list. Every single incidence was based on a Drudge Report. I don't willingly post links to garbage and I won't now.

That said, I repeat: The value of it is it's right wing crap.

It's ALL OVER the right wing web. This confirms my original point and I stand by it: This stuff can easily be used, and successfully, against Howard Dean, especially in wartime by the GOP.

I suggest to Dean supporters they argue back with the following from the VFW's website. I further suggest to those well-meaning Dean supporters who think pointing out that Charles Dean may have been CIA - this is not useful, not to mention there is not a shred of proof for it. It only makes the candidate's brother into a CIA infiltrator in the peace movement of the Vietnam Era. It doesn't work for Dean and it won't work for the rest of us if he is the nominee.


VFW, Dec. 9, 2003

The VFW and JPAC officials discussed the recent successful recovery in Laos of remains believed to be those of two civilians, American Charles Dean, brother of presidential candidate Howard Dean, and Australian Neil Sharman. Both were last seen in 1974.

"All remains recovered are treated as military personnel until the JPAC team identifies the remains," said Banas."I know that some of our VFW members expressed concern about seeing coverage of a flag-draped coffin, but that has always been JPAC's policy as a sign of respect.

"Our country has a long-standing policy of returning all American, including civilian, remains uncovered in Southeast Asia. Of the 1,875 Americans still missing and unaccounted for from the Vietnam War, more than 30 are civilians. If the remains are identified as those of Charles Dean there would be closure for the Dean family, but no military honors would be rendered," Banas said.

Final identification of remains could take anywhere from one month to years. Identification is based on evidence and remains recovered in consultation with family members. Banas has been assured that no preferential treatment will be given to the Dean remains or any other remains recovered.

[trapper914]

112. Upset Military Families

I saw that too. It was one of Drudge's "exclusives," so I didn't put much stock in it.

Besides, why should anyone be upset with Dean due to his brother's remains being brought back? Do you really think the former Governor of Vermont wields that much power with the Pentagon?

Now, with regard to the questionaire, as a Dean supporter, I let out a big, "Doh!" Even if he was CIA and was officially listed as MIA, that doesn't make him "armed services." It makes him look bad, and the New York Times doesn't hesitate to drive that point home. Sure wish they would list every one of Bush's gaffes whenever he makes one. Oh, wait! There wouldn't be room for the Macy's ads.

[libview]

94. Give me a f****in break, Dean's brother was not in the CIA.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

99. So, are you saying that the Pentagon lists...

...ANY civilian as POW/MIA who ends up missing in a foreign country?

Interesting, but wrong.

Read my post #87.

[MIMStigator]

102. Dean brother listed as MM not MIA

eom

[mitchum]

121. CIA operatives rarely serve their country bravely or honorably...

due to the nature of their dirty work.
Please don't consider this a slam against Dean or his brother

[Democrats unite]

16. Would someone here please give me a link...

That Deans brother was listed as a POW/MIA by the pentagon. I would like to know the whole story, before I comment.

[mouse7]

18. Here...happy

News-Info-Alerts

Re: Laotian Grave Reveals 29-Year Mystery

From: POW-MIA InterNetwork

Date: November 19, 2003

"Laotian grave reveals an answer to a 29-year mystery

By Marian Wilkinson United States Correspondent
Washington

Presidential candidate Howard Dean reacted sombrely to the news that the remains of his brother Charlie and his companion, the Australian journalist Neil Sharman, may have been recovered - 29 years after they were murdered by guerillas in Laos.

"This has been a long and emotional journey", said Dr Dean. "We greet this news with mixed emotions, but are gratified that we may now be approaching closure to this painful episode in our lives."

The Pentagon yesterday confirmed that the remains believed to be those of Charlie Dean and Neil Sharman were excavated from a Laotian rice field on November 8 and will be sent to a military laboratory in Hawaii for identification at the end of this month.

Dr Dean said he was confident the remains were those of his brother, but a spokesman for the Pentagon's office handling Missing in Action searches said they could not yet confirm the identity of the remains.

"We found a number of remains and fragments, but the number of individuals represented here cannot be confirmed until the lab finishes its work," said Larry Greer, of the Pentagon.

The three-decade search for the two men, who disappeared in Laos in 1974, has been a frustrating quest for both the families and the Pentagon Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command office.

Charlie Dean, a political activist, and Sharman went to communist-controlled Laos apparently investigating the war.

The two were taken prisoner by the Pathet Lao, who believed they were spies. They were killed on the way to the North Vietnamese border in December 1974.

Mr Greer said the Pentagon had conducted seven investigations in Laos, in which many witnesses were interviewed. "They accumulated a lot of evidence, including interviews with villagers and so on, to a likely place to where remains could be discovered, then they schedule the excavation," he said.

His younger brother's disappearance had a huge impact on Howard Dean and focused his early career in medicine. In February last year, Dr Dean went to Laos to join the Pentagon team searching for his brother's remains.

©2003 The Age Company Ltd"

http://www.aiipowmia.com/inter23/in201103grave.html

[Democrats unite]

24. Thank you even though it's not from the Penagon.

Here is another article I found that says Charlie Dean was a civilian but was a Prisoner of war. it was a project started 11 years ago to find missing Americans in Asia. So yes the Pentagon listed him as a pow even though he was not in the Military.

Flame me if you want I just wanted the whole story.

on edit: Sorry I forgot the link.


http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/recent2003/vt__dean_sbrother_16_2003.shtml

[eyesroll]

22. Here's one from the Boston Globe

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/22/a_meteoric_rise_in_vermont_politics/

A short time later, Charlie embarked on his trip to Southeast Asia. It's not clear why he went. His father knew a man in USAID in Laos. Big Howard himself had traveled unenlisted to Africa and Asia during World War II seeking to be a part of the action. Later, some close to the Dean family speculated that Charlie could have been a spy because the Army listed him as POW/MIA, a theory Howard Dean rejects.

And from ABC News:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/DailyNews/fielddean-5.html

There are still unanswered questions. Why did the U.S. government classify Charlie as an POW/MIA, when Charlie had never been in the military? Dean acknowledged that some members of his family thought Charlie was in the CIA, but he said he didn't believe that. He didn't know why the government had done that, he said, and no one from his family had ever asked. He would, as president, get to the bottom of that mystery, he said.
(emphasis added)

[mojo2004]

32. Charlie shoud be considered a POW...

He was an American citizen captured by the enemy. But there are still two problems with the answer. Howard should not have included the MIA part, as Howard is clearly not an MIA. MIA means he is missing in combat. Also, since the question was specifically asking about relatives in the military, if Howard wanted to talk about his brother he should have been honest about him not being in the military, and then say he was a POW and is probably dead. By not being completely honest, he is being disrepectful of who his brother was. It is very sad he lost his brother this way and Howard should be proud of his brother.

[sfecap]

25. From the POW/MIA database - LOC Federal Research Div.

POW/MIA Database
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Item 1 of 257
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Laos: Civilian MIA Charles Dean
Country: Laos

Name: Charles Dean

Subjects: Missing

Reel: 141

Source Number: 7087

Page: 19-20

Type of Document: Message

Date of Report: 89 02 01

Date of Information: 89 02 01

Document Number: 010851ZFEB89

Originator: AMEMBASSY Vientiane

Category: Source Reports

http://memory.loc.gov/pow/powhome.html

He is also listed here:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/pow/pmsea.html

And here:

http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmsea/files.htm

[Cooley Hurd]

81. Here's another...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103419,00.html
<snip>
Charles Dean, although a civilian, was considered by the U.S. government to have been a prisoner of war. The effort to recover the bodies of Dean and Sharman was coordinated by the Defense Department's Joint Task Force Full Accounting, a Pentagon unit created 11 years ago to find remains of Americans missing in Indochina.
<snip>

[Robb]

30. Guess, what, guys.

FWIW, I'm one of those who actually feels comfortable with Dean or Clark. I dig them both, for different reasons. I'm not alone in this.

I'm also not alone in thinking that whoever gets the worst end of the attack crap gets my support. This is, empirically, a b.s. move to do nothing but attack. This piece does nothing to raise the opinion of another candidate, it only breaks down one.

CIA are "armed services". This has been a reality since the 60s and earlier.

Every time another one of these word-parsing nonsense pieces comes out, guess what. I'm backing the guy the establishment attacks, because the establishment is a steaming pile.

Flame me if you want, but if the polls opened right after I read this, I'd cast for Dean.

[mojo2004]

34. Howard denies Charlie was in the CIA...

I agree with your response, but there is no evidence that suggest Charlie was in the CIA.

[mouse7]

38. Except that a "civilian" is listed as a paramilitary MIA

Naw, that's not suspicious at all.

[libview]

96. Actually, Charlie Dean was Batman,

and he was in Loas chasing The Joker.
A real American Hero!!!
Lets elect Howard Dean!!!

[MGKrebs]

97. Dean didn't "deny" it.

He said he didn't believe it. Apparently, he is not in a position to know. And even if he were, if he told you, then he would have to... well, he just wouldn't admit it I guess, unlike Robert Novak.

:-)

[bearfartinthewoods]

65. cute logic

whoever lies the most and gets called on it gets my support for the office of president......geeeeezus.

[Robb]

67. Except it's not a lie

...that's the problem.

[Cheswick2.0]

70. It is exactly this kind of attack a week ago that sent me to the Dean site

I looked around and I signed up to work for the campaign. Last night I hosted a letter writing effort.
I will support whoever gets the nomination, but I agree with Dean. The DLC has become the republican wing of my party and I am sorry to see this happen.

[Sterling]

95. I agree, this stuff is all they got.

This stuff may work on the morans but only a dishonest person with an agenda could pretend to be so dumb they actually put stock in this tripe. I mean come on this is DU. We knock thios kind of crap down everyday from the freetard morans. Why would any reasonable person feel this is going to help them on DU. No wonder Dean is taking it all. He and his camp have yet to resort to creating mountains out of pimples. He is addressing the real issues we care about, not some half truth slander coming from the losers in the primary.

I used to have doubts about Dean. I was concerned he was a DLC plant in case the war whores were not getting the votes for the nom.

The dishonest freeper style attacks on Dean have cleared that up for me and raised concerns about Clark (DK never had a chance so the despiration is not surprising). If this is the kind of work we can expect from them after Dean wins the nom I say we are better off without them.

I for one will not allow any "invented the internet" type strategies to fly in my presence. I think resorting to that kind of bunk this time around will fail on an electorate that has seen what we have in the past 4 years. Some people still think this is a game it seems.

[stickdog]

33. How dare Dean mention his slain brother in this context!

Come on, folks. This is the anti-Dean opening we've all been waiting for! If we dance on Dean's dead brother's grave for the next few months, we may just be able to derail Dean's march to the nomination!

[Robb]

46. LOL!

Funny man! :)

[zulchzulu]

53. Who mentioned his brother for political gain? Howard Dean

There seems to be loss of logic here on this and other issues where Dean puts his foot in his mouth.

Dean made the decision to lie about his brother's status for some kind of political gain.

If finding out and pointing out errors that Dean makes is "anti-Dean", so be it.

Toughen up.

[Teaser]

72. You're going to lose...

and I'm going to laugh.

[stickdog]

80. Exactly! I haven't been this outraged since Wellstone used his own

memorial for rank political purposes.

How dare they!

[MIMStigator]

103. Dean asked for closest relative in ARMED SERVICES. Names brother. Weird.

weird.

[bushisanidiot]

35. Oh, Gawd. The Repukes Are Desperate So They're Fabricating Controversy

is this the best they can come up with?

hello?

what about president dipsh*t's military record? AWOL? Deserter?

how about that cocaine thing?

how about the drunk driving?

hello?

and they can't come up with anything of substance on dean (no where NEAR AWOL's transgretions)? hahahahahahahaha!!!

contrast and compare, ladies and gentleman. let them bring up whatever they want on the doctor. NOTHING they have compares to the sh*t AWOL did. NOTHING! and we'll make sure the voters know it!

[robbedvoter]

39. Jodi Welgoren? How dares she! Quick, let's ask NYT to fire her!

After all, she shouldn't have expactations of job security after writing this!

[zulchzulu]

42. Another day, another gaffe

Dean is a walking, talking gaffe machine.

Keep 'em coming, Howard.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

64. Comprehension troubles?

Dean: "My brother is listed as POW/MIA."

Sfecap: 3 sources showing the veracity of this statemnent.

zulchzulu: Gaffe, gaffe, gaffe.



Keep 'em coming, Zilchzulu.

[RetroLounge]

69. Yup, that must explain why he's the front runner

That *fact* alone must really piss you off...

[ibegurpard]

55. pulling "gotchas" from a dead brother's grave

how ghoulish!

[DemBones DemBones]

59. DU's Dean supporters can make all the excuses

they like, but that doesn't change the FACT that Dean answered a question with an incorrect statement that implied his brother was in the military.
(Charlie Dean has not been officially confirmed as having been CIA, and without that, it's just a rumor. Officially, he was a civilian tourist.)

Attacking the poster, the reporter, or anyone else doesn't change the fact that Dean screwed up. Again. And a lot of VOTERS in Iowa were upset when they read his misleading answer in their local paper. That's why it's Late Breaking News in the NY Times. That's why so many of us think Dean cannot win the general election. If you really have the power you talk about, use it and tell Dean to watch his mouth.

I am disgusted that anyone would suggest that Dean is going to urinate all over a reporter's desk and/or bite the reporter's ear off. I would hope the man would have a bit more class than that. If he had real class, he'd apologize for this gaffe and move on to the next one, covered in the same article.

[SahaleArm]

62. Officially Classified Civilian: Status MM - Missing in Action

http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmsea/pmsea_info_d609.htm

DEAN, CHARLES
SERVICE: US CIVILIAN ( Complete Service Report )
STATUS: MM - MISSING IN ACTION
(PRESUMPTIVE FINDING OF DEATH NOT RECORDED FOR CIVILIANS)
DATE OF INCIDENT: 1974/09/10
HOME OF RECORD: NY ( Complete State Report )
COUNTRY OF LOSS: LAOS
VEHICLE TYPE: GROUND

Status Codes:

Individuals Accounted For:
AR - AWOL/Deserter/Collaborator Returnee
BR - Body Recovered
EE - Escapee (Not on State Reports)
KR - Died in Captivity, Remains Returned
NR - Remains Returned/Remains Recovered
RR - Returnee (Not on all State Reports)

Individuals Unaccounted For:
BB - Killed in Action, Body not Recovered
KK - Died in Captivity, Remains Not Returned
MM - Missing (Civilians only)
PP - Prisoner (Civilians only)
XX - Presumptive Finding of Death

[LizW]

71. A sad day when DU promotes the "Goring" of one of its own candidates

:spank:

[Cheswick2.0]

77. Don't worry, this type of nonsense is sending people to Dean in droves

everyday 1000 more people sign up to work for him.

[Cheswick2.0]

73. which rival campaign circulated this information?

Do any of them have the guts to fess up?

[NNN0LHI]

85. Maybe the rival Bush campaign circulated this information?

Did you ever consider that?

Don

[bushisanidiot]

89. Rove's Campaign, That's Who.

and they're looking like a bunch of cry baby whiners.

they know their boy king is a losing candidate and the only fight they have is to try to make the leading dem. candidate look as bad as possible. sorry, kids. but's dean is teflon! and he's going all the way to the white house!!


the tidal wave is coming!

[MIMStigator]

100. Dean circulated it when he lied on the form and turned it in

eom

[deminflorida]

79. Dean is a Uniter not a Divider, where have we heard that before....

Whether it's seal records, or secret minutes from Energy meetings or even B.S. from Dean like this....it's seems the Bush and Dean camps grow similar in appearence every day.

"At a town hall meeting in Exeter, N.H., on Monday afternoon, Dr. Dean referred to the centrist Democratic Leadership Council as "the Republican part of the Democratic Party" even while talking about the need to bring unity among Democrats."

[MGKrebs]

86. Dean has already responded, and more info.

The NYT story is about a previous story printed in the Quad City Times. Dean already responded to the Quad City Times editorial (and this is in the NYT story). I admit, not the best answer, but there is more "context" below:

"The way I read the question was that they wanted to know if I knew anything about the armed services from a personal level," he said. "I don't think it was inaccurate or misleading if anybody knew what the history was, and I assumed that most people knew what the history was. Anybody who wanted to write about this could have looked through the 23-year history to see that I've always acknowledged my brother's a civilian, was a civilian."

And supporting that viewpoint is the editor of the QCT:

Mr. Ridolfi (editor) said the question, one of 20 that the candidates answered in writing in August, was intended to get at candidates' personal connections to the military. "When you have a family member currently involved in the military," he said, "you think of things differently."

Charlie may or may not have been IN the military, but he was apparently connected in some way, as the many previous cites show. And Dean has been in contact with the Pentagon over the past 20 years regarding the search for him, so it's easy to see how in his mind there would be a connection as far as Dean's perspective regarding the military.

And:

"Dr. Dean called the editorial, which referred to his brother as a "renegade," "one of the greatest cheap shots I've ever seen in journalism."

"It's offensive and insensitive not to understand what the impact of this is," he said, "writing about this in such a tawdry way."

Finally:

Seven other candidates responded to question about the armed services. Mr. Kerry said, "They're all retired now," while Senator Bob Graham of Florida, who has since dropped out, cited his brother, Bill, who was in the Air Force in World War II. Senator John Edwards of North Carolina mentioned his father-in-law, a retired Navy pilot, and Senator Joseph I. Lieberman named his nephew, Adam Miller.

Former Senator Carol Moseley Braun of Illinois wrote, "I come from a small family and I do not currently have a relative in the armed forces."

Representative Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio listed his brothers Frank (Vietnam) and Gary (Japan) as well as his sister Beth, who "served stateside." Representative Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri noted that he himself had been in the Air National Guard, "but currently I don't have any relatives in the service."

So TECHNICALLY, Graham, Edwards, and Kucinich also answered the question incorrectly, naming family that were no longer "in the service". Not that I want to attack other candidates, but others interpreted that question pretty liberally also.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

88. Show us where Dean said: "My brother was never in the service"

at least Graham, Edwards, and Kucinich understood that part of the question.

[missile_bender]

104. Dean attacked for saying he invented the Internet

Oops. I can't keep the progapganda attacks straight.

[TrueAmerican]

107. Get use to if, if Dean is the nominee

Dean is easy to label as another Dukakis/McGovern by Karl Rove.

[Capn Sunshine]

109. Yet another non issue

postulate all you want , this ain't goin' nowhere
:nuke:

[dolstein]

111. Breaking News: Dean's pants are on fire

Face it folks -- he didn't answer truthfully. In other words, he LIED. If someone from the non-Dean wing of the Democratic Party did this, you bet the Deniacs would be having a field day. But I guess their false messiah can do no wrong.

[MacCovern]

115. Charlie Dean was a tourist

When you exaggerate to the point of claiming your deceased brother who was traveling the world at the time he was executed as a civilian is the
"closest living relative in the armed services" that is called a flat out lie.

For those of you who want to believe Charlie Dean was a CIA operative ask yourself why Richard Nixon's CIA would want to hire a McGovern campaign worker. It looks more like Charlie Dean was so distraught over McGovern's loss that he decided to leave the USA for awhile.

I agree with posts on this topic that wish Howard Dean would not put all of his thoughts into spoken/written word.

[progressivebydesign]

117. Total non-issue. And as usual.. Dems eat their own!

I think the person in Iowa who made a big stink over this is causing it for personal reasons. Puh-lease. He was very clear as to his brother's status. He said only that he was MIA/POW. This is a hatchet job. Yawn.

And once again, some people on DU, took it upon themselves to use it as the death knell for Dean's campaign. We are embarrassing ourselves with this bullshit in-fighting. I'm saddened to see some Clark suporters being such junkyard dogs.. because Clark is the only other candidate out there that seems to be rising above the fray. We eat our own at our peril. The real opponent is Bush, remember him? No wonder I rarely visit DU anymore.. got tired of the personal attacks on candidates of choice. When people start quoting Mary Matalin as gospel about a Democratic candidate, then I know there's something fucked up in DU-land, and it's waaayyyy ugly!

[windansea]

119. read the quad cities article...source of NY Times piece

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1022060&t=Opinion&c=22,1022060