Mary Winkler found guilty of Voluntary Manslaughter (TN preacher wife trial)

[Stinky The Clown]

Source: MSNBC

Just shown on their crawl ...... no link yet.

Story up now on MSNBC .... see also a second link, in paost below.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

[Hepburn]

1. I just heard the same on MSNBC. n/t

[katmondoo]

15. As a victum of abuse I understand her

I felt trapped in a situation that I couldn't change, I know how she felt.You can't talk to people, they wouldn't understand and wouldn't believe you.When you have kids you can't just walk away. It's hard.

[Hepburn]

22. Amen.

I represented a lot of abused women when I practiced law and what you said is the absolute truth. For someone who has been abused, reality is altered. I hope all is well with you and contragulations on getting away from what happened to you. It is a tough thing to go through and so very hard to recover from.

[laylah]

35. And, unfortunately,

women who kill abusive husbands, more often than not, get heavier sentences than men who kill their wives. Go figure :shrug:

Jenn

[Bake]

41. She sure walked - ran - away after she shot him in the back.

Ahem.

Bake

[Stinky The Clown]

2. Link to Memphis teevee station with partial story

http://www.wreg.com/

[Hepburn]

4. Thanks for the link.

That was an interesting trial. I watched as much of it as I could. Local media was carrying a live feed from the courtroom.

[LostinVA]

3. Interesting -- I thought it would be murder

I would love to know the real, entire story there.

[Hepburn]

6. I thought she might walk....

...she was really, really a sad figure on the witness stand.

[LostinVA]

7. Yeah, I know

I figured the jury would go to either extreme.

[Hepburn]

8. IMO, vol manslaughter was probably the lightest they could find...

...if they intended to have a guilty verdict.

Did you watch any of her on the stand with that "hooker" shoe in front of her face and all the testimony about what went on?

Man, I felt soooooo sorry for her for what he put her through. And, no, she should not have shot him in cold blood, but he certainly came across like a certifiable bastard. And watching his parents??? She is describing how their son died and NOT ONE BIT of emotion from either of them. Not anger, sadness, NOTHING. That just amazed me.

[LostinVA]

9. I watched some of it, yeah

The whole thing was so strange.

:sigh:

[Hepburn]

10. And....

...I understand that they even held trial on last Saturday? The whole thing felt so rushed to me. Maybe that is the way trials are in the South, but it sure was odd.

Edit for typo.

[yardwork]

43. "Trials in the South" don't operate under a unique set of circumstances

The length of trials depend on the case, and how long it takes each side to present their case. The schedule is set by the judge presiding.

Please, no South bashing.

[Retired AF Dem]

11. What he put her through?

Of course he couldnt tell his story since he is dead.

[Hepburn]

13. I would say from watching her that she was absolutely telling the truth...

...about what went on in that marriage. And, no, he did not deserve to be shot ~~ that was the wrong thing to do. However, Matthew Winkker in my book was a very nasty sick person who abused the hell out of his wife in many ways. She needed to leave and NOT shoot him ~~ but there is NO doubt in my mind that he was a sick SOB.

[Retired AF Dem]

17. If he was so abusive

Why did she run after the shooting? You should keep at least a little doubt since you only heard one side of the story.

[Hepburn]

21. I have no clue why she ran after the shooting.

But I will say that her presentation was very consistent with the abused women who I represented over the years. I heard most of the trial, but not all of it. And I heard the DA's closing. I did not see a Murder One or a Murder Two case based on the evidence. I thought she would walk on jury nullification or that they would come in with the lowest possible charge.

What I found with abused spouses is that their reality is altered. They do not think like rational people. What you would do or I would do under the same circumstances is not the same for them. Why she fled ~~ I have no clue, but I would guess she was in a panic. They have been totally disempowered and have been led to believe that they have NO choices in life and MUST obey or suffer the consequences. If you recall, she testified on direct that she asked her husband for a divorce and he refused...and she pursued it no further. That was her reality ~~ that she needed his permission. How many of us feel that if we wished to divorce a spouse, his/her permission was required? Most of us know that this is just not reality. She did not.

I rep'd one abused spouse who had been tied up by her spouse, cigarette burned and urinated on over a weekend ~~ and she was worried what he would do if she filed for a disso and a restraining order because doing this would make him angry. No matter WHAT I told her, for a very long time she did NOT believe that he could be removed from the residence for what he had done. Over the years of abuse she had suffered, her reality was that HE CONTROLLED EVERYTHING and she had NO POWER. She did NOT think like you or I or most people would process on these issues. And this was NOT a stupid woman. A very sad case.

[blitzen]

12. but don't forget the prosecution's case: they showed pretty clearly...

that she was involved in some rather "creative financing," to put it charitably...or, to put it uncharitably--she's something of a con artist.

[Hepburn]

14. I got the feeling that she was rather unsophistocated about most things...

...in life. She came across as very child like and not worldly in the least. Never came across as a con artist to me. I will say, however, that I did miss a lot of that portion of the case so my opinion is not based on hearing all of the evidence on that issue but primarily by watching her testify.

I did a lot of family law when I practiced law and I did rep quite a few abused and battered women...and unless she is one hell of an actress, watching her rang very true to me as to how abused women act. She was just so totally cowed by everything.

[blitzen]

20. apparently she got taken in by some of those Nigerian bank schemes

and was kiting checks to cover up her losses...so yes, child-like does seem to describe her

here's a link to a story on her finances

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/midsouth_news/article/0,1426,MCA_1497_5485246,00.html

[LisaL]

37. Oh please. He is dead so he can't defend himself.

Hooker shoe and wig-that's some fine proof of abuse.
:eyes:

[Donnachaidh]

5. is she the one who shot hubby because she got into an email scheme?

Got taken for several thousand?

[Tippy]

26. While she did get scamed

$3 to $4 thousand that was not the reason she shot her husband....apperently he was abusive...made her do things she didn't agree with and hated... the same evening of the shooting he had placed his hand over the baby's mouth and nose almost suficated the child. She told her story yesterday over 4 hours on the stand and the jury saw/heard something, I only watched part of the live coverage. But from what I heard I think the jury's verdict w3aqs correct....

[pitohui]

31. yeah she got caught kiting checks and killed her husband to keep from having to explain it

she is a cold-blooded murderess and will walk in a few years even tho she killed her husband to hide a gee-dee check-kiting scheme

there ain't no justice

she robs him, murders him, and then slanders his memory by making up the abuse bullshit

there is no god and this bitch is proof
-- fucking MANSLAUGHTER when she committed a cold-blooded pre-meditated murder to conceal her participation in an economic crime

the jury system is broken, we have evidence by DNA of innocent people convicted of serious crimes they didn't commit every gee-dee day and this woman, a stone cold killer and thief, gets away w. a minimal verdict

something has got to change

[Blue_Tires]

34. i don't know the facts of the case

but there will be no truer sentiments in this thread other than:

1. There ain't no justice

2. Something has got to change

[asjr]

16. This is not an isolated case.

Did the jury think preacher's wives can't be abused? Selmer is a small town and everyone is pointing fingers. At Mary Winkler. Small towns can be so "Christian" they will not condone anything disrupting their beliefs that they are better than their neighbor.

[brentspeak]

18. The daughter testified that she never saw any abuse take place

[asjr]

19. I guess he never let her in their bedroom.

[Hepburn]

23. I cannot see Mary Winkler pulling out the hooker clothes that...

..she was suppose to wear or the porn that hubbie wanted her to look at. I doubt if the daughter had a clue as to what went on in that bedroom and I would think that Mary hid as much of this as she could. When she testified, she could hardly talk about it and she appeared to be mega embarrassed by all of it. When speaking about anal intercourse, she stuttered out like a child would that he wanted to do that to her bottom. I doubt if her small children had clue one about any of that.

[Tippy]

27. Daughter was only on the stand for about 7 minutes......

She broke down right after the prosecutor stared questioning...

[yardwork]

44. That doesn't really prove anything one way or the other

Abusers often keep the abuse a secret, even from other family members. Mary Winkler testified that her husband's abuse was sexual and psychological in nature. It's not surprising that the children wouldn't know about it. Also, assuming that Mary Winkler was telling the truth, the husband imposed his control over the entire household. This is the reality in which his wife and children lived. The children wouldn't question a lot of things that many people would recognize as abuse.

I didn't watch the case and I haven't followed it all that closely, so I have no opinion about this particular case. It's certainly true that many many women are abused - many to death - by their husbands in this country. Some of them snap.

[terrible beauty]

24. 3 to 6 years

Voluntary manslaughter carries a 3 to 6 in Tennessee.
just seen it on Nancy (scary) Grace Show.

[951-Riverside]

25. Yet another white women gets off with a slap on the wrists n/t

:eyes:

[ncabot22]

28. Was there proof she was abused?

I don't mean to sound cruel or unsympathetic but I'm a bit skeptical (I'm a skeptic..I like proof). Her daughter testified she saw none; granted, the child wasn't in their bedroom. But shooting someone in the back, unplugging the phone so he can't call for help while he asks "why?" seems cruel. There are so many women out there who are battered ruthlessly by their husbands (and some men who are abused by wives). I am fearful that this case may lead to other claims of abuse by battered wives to be questioned.

If she claims the abuse was because he wanted to have "unnatural" sex with her and yelled at her because of finances, then I've been abused and I've abused.

Whatever happened to divorce? People like Mary Winkler, Scott Peterson, Michael Peterson et al. could just have left and asked for divorces.

I apologize if all of this is answered in the link...I couldn't click on the link to read the story. Will try to look up elsewhere. My computer is acting up.

[pitohui]

32. no, there was proof she was a stone cold check kiting thief!

she killed her husband and then slandered him

at one point she was even trying to claim he had sex w. her 1 year old daughter, yeah, right, that's so fucking believable, i tend to think there would be some physical evidence of that, don't you? i mean, i'm no doctor or anything but my guess is that one year olds would have fairly small and easily bruised orifices, i dunno!

[nealmhughes]

Portions of the trial were live on Huntsville TV stations. Her verdict was

in halfway through the 5pm evening news (local), right before the weather forecast. She was utterly emotionless when she rose for the judge, then for the jury and when the judge asked her to stand and read the verdict and then polled the jury. Not a shudder or a tear.
She had cried earlier when her daughter said she didn't know if she ever wanted to see her mom again in testimony 2 days ago.
It was stupid when she pulled out the hooker shoe and wig yesterday. I didn't even know that Frederick's of Hollywood was still in business. Her defense attorney made vague mention of "unnatural sexual activity that makes you feel uncomfortable." All I could think of was "a hooker shoe and a wig? That's the best she can come up with for 'unnatural'?"
She did lower her head when she before the jury and they were polled by the judge. But she never flinched once.
I don't know if my knees could have stood firm with the first rising, much less thrice!
The lies she told on the stand, such as not having ever fired a gun before and then met on cross examination, was forced to admit she had gone with her husband to a firing range and had bought the gun with him for home defense when he was out of town or visiting parishoners in the hospitals in Memphis or Nashville. The prosecution expert on shotguns showed how she had to have pumped the shotgun to get it in the chamber and that the gun did not have a hairtrigger, but was very firm in firing.
Her inlaws looked like shit warmed over. Her father in law is also a minister, and I wonder how he is taking it as a minister and also as a man with a dead son?
I am surprised that she did not get second degree murder at the least. From what I saw of the trial, I would have voted for Second Degree Murder due to the lack of any exculpatory evidence, only hearsay.

[nealmhughes]

29. Portions of the trial were live on Huntsville TV stations. Her verdict was

in halfway through the 5pm evening news (local), right before the weather forecast. She was utterly emotionless when she rose for the judge, then for the jury and when the judge asked her to stand and read the verdict and then polled the jury. Not a shudder or a tear.
She had cried earlier when her daughter said she didn't know if she ever wanted to see her mom again in testimony 2 days ago.
It was stupid when she pulled out the hooker shoe and wig yesterday. I didn't even know that Frederick's of Hollywood was still in business. Her defense attorney made vague mention of "unnatural sexual activity that makes you feel uncomfortable." All I could think of was "a hooker shoe and a wig? That's the best she can come up with for 'unnatural'?"
She did lower her head when she before the jury and they were polled by the judge. But she never flinched once.
I don't know if my knees could have stood firm with the first rising, much less thrice!
The lies she told on the stand, such as not having ever fired a gun before and then met on cross examination, was forced to admit she had gone with her husband to a firing range and had bought the gun with him for home defense when he was out of town or visiting parishoners in the hospitals in Memphis or Nashville. The prosecution expert on shotguns showed how she had to have pumped the shotgun to get it in the chamber and that the gun did not have a hairtrigger, but was very firm in firing.
Her inlaws looked like shit warmed over. Her father in law is also a minister, and I wonder how he is taking it as a minister and also as a man with a dead son?
I am surprised that she did not get second degree murder at the least. From what I saw of the trial, I would have voted for Second Degree Murder due to the lack of any exculpatory evidence, only hearsay.

[FryLock3000]

30. I'm surprised she was convicted at all

With a jury of 10 women and 2 men, and it was her word against a dead man's. Seems like they pretty much ignored the elephant in the room - the money scam she got caught up in.

Pretty easy to accuse someone of something after they're dead. He may have abused her, I dunno. Only she knows the truth. Can't say I'm surprised at the verdict. The ole "he abused me" argument seems to work most of the time, true or not.

[alphafemale]

33. She shot someone in the back, and left them screaming to bleed to death alone.

She'll be out in just a few years.

On the dating scene again!

[LisaL]

36. Yep, she might make some lucky fella a new wife.

Abused? Where is the evidence? The daughter testified she did not witness any abuse. It's easy to say bad things about a dead man because he can't defend himself-he is dead.
Then again, ever since this happened, the message from the media and the public, including those on DU was "poor thing must have been abused."
And that was before she ever said anything about why she did it.

[JVS]

40. someone ought to report her to dontdateher.com

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

38. What a crock...

Abuse is now defined as, looking at porn, "unnatural" sex, role-play or dress-up.

She shot him in the back in bed on the very day they would be discussing her check-kiting scheme with bank officials.

PTSD is the new "get-out-of-jail-free" card for women.

Sorry for my rant, but how is this not murder?

[Mr. Earl]

39. This is.............

just so sad for everyone involved. The children lost both parents, that is not good for anybody here.

Looks like the preacher wanted some kink along with his good wife...

[Bake]

42. 3 to 6 years? It's open season on men.

Let's see: If you're a man, you can be falsely accused of rape, fired from your job, or what the hell -- SHOT IN THE BACK AND LEFT TO BLEED OUT.

Three to six years for voluntary manslaughter.

Oh, and while we're at it -- I guess we'd better ban shotguns too.

Bake