U.S. Gun Control Laws Criticized Abroad

[IChing]

Source: AP

LONDON (AP) - The Virginia Tech shootings sparked criticism of U.S. gun control laws around the world Tuesday. Editorials lashed out at the availability of weapons, and the leader of Australia—one of America's closest allies—declared that America's gun culture was costing lives.

South Korea's Foreign Ministry said the government hoped Monday's shootings, allegedly carried out by a 23-year-old South Korean native, would not "stir up racial prejudice or confrontation."

Editorials were less diplomatic.

"Only the names change—And the numbers," read a headline in the Times of London. "Why, we ask, do Americans continue to tolerate gun laws and a culture that seems to condemn thousands of innocents to death every year, when presumably, tougher restrictions, such as those in force in European countries, could at least reduce the number?"

The French daily Le Monde said the regularity of mass shootings across the Atlantic was a blotch on America's image.

"It would be unjust and especially false to reduce the United States to the image created, in a recurrent way, from the bursts of murderous fury that some isolated individuals succumb to. But acts like this are rare elsewhere, and tend to often disfigure the 'American dream.'"

Read more: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8OIGHU00&show_article=1

[virginia mountainman]

1. Bullet and stab proof vests for British school kids...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=a_gP7Pj2387g&refer=europe

Hmm, seems like there laws are even more ineffective..

[billbuckhead]

2. So now you want kids taking guns to school?

BTW, the Brits have only 25% of the murders percapita the USA has even with all these knives, I guess it's easier to run away from a knife.

[krispos42]

19. The UK homicide rate has doubled since 1967

Ours is down by 11% compared to the same year.

You keep making that same asinine statement, so I'll keep correcting you.

Don't want the masses be misinformed, do we? They might start taking gunguys.com seriously.

[slackmaster]

3. In other news, Francisco Franco is still dead

:boring:

[wake.up.america]

5. Exactly. People get killed. Everyone up in arms. Nothing constructive happens.

[damntexdem]

4. It would also be unjust and false to acquit the U.S. from responsibility ...

for such bursts of murder. Acquiescence to the gun nuts is a national disorder.

[Doctor_J]

6. Amen

and the only response we ever hear from them is "If everyone at VPI carried a weapon, this guy could have been put down after a few kills".

The depth of absurdity of such a statement indicates that there is no way to reach them

[Irreverend IX]

20. Care to explain why it's so absurd?

The cops sure as hell didn't do much to stop the killing. But armed citizens have helped during similar incidents in the past:

http://www.whatwasthen.com/whitman_witness.htm

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=At+least+nine+shots+fired+in+Uptown+Tavern+shooting&articleId=3f434d17-3fe9-4c81-93c1-394cef76a80b

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/OthWr/principal&gun.htm

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8J0MBOG2&show_article=1

http://publicola.mu.nu/archives/2005/02/25/a_few_good_men_sadly_just_a_few.html

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1024078861416

[krispos42]

21. Where did the 'everyone' come from?

It's a strawman. Nobody, and I mean nobody, calls for everybody to be armed.

Many pro-gunners call for everybody to be armed that desires to be and can pass required tests and legal requirements.

<edit: spelling>

[churchofreality]

36. 30,000 gun deaths per year

Thats the price we pay so that cowboys can shoot tin cans and pretend they are Dirty Harry.

[Centered]

43. How many car deaths per year?

that's the price we pay so you don't have to take a bus or teenagers can pretend they are Mario Andretti.

These types of arguments are silly and don't even allow for a mature discussion of the subject.

I don't believe we should be arming students though that is only my opinion however I also do not believe in taking away a constitutional right either.

Also the argument that if he didn't have a gun he couldn't have killed as many people is equally absurd because if someones goal is simply to kill as many people as possible to make a statement then I am certain the average deranged college student has enough time and resources to go to the internet and learn how to make a suicide vest built for maximum carnage.

This is a terrible tragedy and as it appears this young man was intent on killing innocents and then himself. No law could have prevented his desire to carry out his plan.


edit spelling

[Omaha Steve]

7. U.S. Gun Laws Draw Heat After Massacre

Source: Associated Press

U.S. Gun Laws Draw Heat After Massacre
Email this Story

Apr 17, 5:35 PM (ET)

By PAISLEY DODDS

LONDON (AP) - The Virginia Tech shootings sparked criticism of U.S. gun control laws around the world Tuesday. Editorials lashed out at the availability of weapons, and the leader of Australia - one of America's closest allies - declared that America's gun culture was costing lives.

South Korea's Foreign Ministry said the government hoped Monday's shootings, allegedly carried out by a 23-year-old South Korean native, would not "stir up racial prejudice or confrontation."

While some focused blame only on the gunman, world opinion over U.S. gun laws was almost unanimous: Access to weapons increases the probability of shootings. There was no sympathy for the view that more guns would have saved lives by enabling students to shoot the assailant.


South Koreans read a headline on the television at the Seoul Railway Station in Seoul, Tuesday, April 17, 2007. South Korea's Foreign Ministry said Tuesday the government hoped the Virginia Tech shootings, allegedly carried out by a 23-year-old South Korean native, would not "stir up racial prejudice or confrontation." (AP Photo/Ahn Young-joon)


"We took action to limit the availability of guns and we showed a national resolve that the gun culture that is such a negative in the United States would never become a negative in our country," said Australian Prime Minister John Howard, who staked his political career on promoting tough gun laws after a gunman went on one of the world's deadliest killing sprees 11 years ago.

Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070417/D8OIJRVO1.html

[Little Wing]

8. Oh hey look! The rest of the world is right about the Iraq war, but they're dead wrong on this one

Right, gunnies?

[candice]

10. Assault weapons for sale? Why?

[Pavulon]

48. why not

do you know what an assault weapon is? It is an Orwellian term conjured up to provoke a reaction in sheeple (not you). It refers to a REPLICA of a military rifle. You can not take the trigger group and exchange it into the VAST Majority of "assault weapons".

You can not obtain a machine gun in the us through normal means.



The top rifle pictured is not an "assault weapon" under the expired law.

The bottom two are. Difference, cosmetics. foldy things, and such. The internals are the same.

The foldy ones with pistol grips make a scarier looking rifle. They also make it less accurate.

[melm00se]

49. link

not working

[iverglas]

39. isn't it amazing??

In the rest of the world, it's the right-wing loons and assholes fighting firearms control ("Canada's new government", as it likes to style itself, is trying to end the firearms registry). At DU, it's fine upstanding Democrats doing it. Hmm.

They say they support universal health care and reproductive choice and all that good stuff, and oppose the war on Iraq, and hate Bush ...

[fujiyama]

9. I understand the criticism from editorialists

but John Howard should really shut the fuck up. I hate that self righteous ass hole.

[primavera]

28. "World opinion over U.S. gun laws was almost unanimous:..."

"... Access to weapons increases the probability of shootings." You know, if the whole world tells you you're drunk, maybe you ought to sit down.

They're absolutely right - we bear as much responsibility for this tragedy as the shooter, for allowing ourselves to be bullied by the gun nuts into creating the wild west warzone we have today in which any Tom, Dick, or Harry, can go and legally buy a weapon of mass destruction.

[beevul]

11. How many of these "critics" know what they're talking about?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=449011&in_page_id=1811


"Even though the Columbine school massacre in 1999 led to a partial ban on automatic weapons, many states - including Virginia - still allow the sale of such lethal weapons."

"According to a anti-gun group the state of Virginia has some of the weakest laws in the nation."

"They were awarded a C grade by the Brady Campaign, the leading organisation aimed at combating gun violence in America, which rates the toughest laws as an A grade."

"AK-47 assault rifles and Uzi sub machine guns can be bought legally over the counter. Gun buyers must undergo a computerised background and this often takes place on the spot."

blech

How many of these "critics" share the outright misinformation evidenced above?

[-..__...]

16. Do people over there actually swallow that shit?

Wait a minute... :think: there are people in this country that gleefully believe the same crap (then post it here).

[iverglas]

40. I was wondering the same thing

Except I was wondering whether any of them fall for the gun-head habit of splitting the hairs on the angels dancing on the points of the needles, and I was kinda surprised to think you were.

[depakid]

12. Every single person I know and talk to from overseas

and that would 40-50, thinks that Americans are lunatics in regards to their attitudes on guns.

And they're right.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

13. We fought a war in oh the 1770's so we wouldn't have to care what they say over there.

You know what, I still don't care. They can shove it.

[MGD]

14. I'll second that. nt

[-..__...]

15. I'll 3rd that.

If the sheeple over there are wiling to accept their fate... so be it.

I'll be damned if I'll accept it here.

[Crayson]

23. which is exactly why the world currently hates the US...

... you don't care.

Analyze the 3 above posters.
That's exactly the "nobody else has to tell us what to do" thing.

That's why the US has to act more and more unilateral, because there is no more dialogue.

And to all the "The US saved Europe in WWII" people I'd like to say:

Imagine the US fighting against Germany without Russia. Do you know how many millions of Germans and Russians died on the eastern front? Hadn't the German-Russian confrict totally exhausted the German army, the US couldn't just have waltzed in from the west without "much" resistance. German soldiers were GLAD to fight on the western front instead of the eastern. RUSSIA took on the brunt Germanies army. They cut of germany from valuable ressources and brought down their industries, which prevented it from building up its air froce (ever heard of that german jet plane that would have owned bombers). Then the boming raids came through and flattened German cities.
I DO respect that the US helped in WWII, but they didn't do it all alone, and they were not the only saviours.
Europe then sank in 50 years of occupation. The east was occupied by Russia. The west was occupied by the US. Both posed as saviours, not occupiers. The rhetorics on both sides were the same, just places switched.

There is no "good guys" and "bad guys".
Just politics and history written by the ones who won and which is usually relativated about 50 years later.

So please come down from your "We're the worlds heroes, we don't have to listen to any critics" horse.


Sorry, I had to say that.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

26. Two different things

You are the one who needs to come off your high horse. Not talking about pissing off the rest of the world by going into other countires and messing them up.

I am talking about INTERNAL affairs. They have no business or influence on such activities.

[Nihil]

37. Not really

> Not talking about pissing off the rest of the world by going into
> other countires and messing them up.
>
> I am talking about INTERNAL affairs. They have no business or influence
> on such activities.

Maybe that's what the Iraqis, Afghans, et al thought before Team America
piled into their INTERNAL affairs?

:shrug:

Think about it: Most non-domestic items of news involving America are
specifically about the American influence (or attempt at such) on another
country. Those other countries view such actions in exactly the same
way as you appear to view the RotW comments on US gun laws.

Hey, it's not as if anyone in your administration pays attention to
other countries anyway so why get all defensive?

[iverglas]

42. aw, no, we don't

We hate your government. We just shake our heads at the rest of you (well, not you) and hope you stop ... how's that go? ... drinking the koolade sometime ... soon.

[IChing]

17. Ok join up and kill you 1770 revolutionary thought person?

mr. revolutionary, from three hundred years ago

And we have old time duers that pumped his thought?

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

27. What are you babbling about?

[LanternWaste]

34. Provincialism at its best...

Provincialism and hubris at their best... a nice two-fer we get from this one.

"They can shove it". Sage advice. Sage advice indeed. A gem both insightful in its wit and thoughtful in its wisdom wisdom. :eyes:

It's almost as good as "You're either with us or against us". You're not quite there yet, but with time, I think you could our current leadership a run for their money in the diplomacy & tolerance department.

(I hope I'm not misunderestimating you, though...)

[depakid]

35. Irrational American exceptionalism

Along with being a rogue nation that refuses to sign or ratify international treaties (or simply unilaterally abrogates them) these types of attitudes will be America's undoing.

Why?

Because natural and economic laws don't care what you think.

Well guess what? These laws don't care what you think. Your non-negotiable lifestyles are going down the tubes. You've overshot via wasteful lifestyles (and an addiction to cheap energy) and overshot via insane fiscal, monetary and trade policies- and collapse is now inevitable. It's only a matter of when and how fast.

And when it does, don't expect to garner much sympathy (much less be bailed out) by the rest of the international community.

[iverglas]

41. "over there"

Yes, the great big "over there", like that Frenchie place, without whose money and gunpowder back in the 1770s you folks might still be ... well, civilized. And might have evolved out of the 18th century.

Reminds me of that joke about heaven. This seems to be a United Church of Canada version, but one can insert the cult of one's choice.
http://www.westminsterunited.ca/westwords-archive/Westwords-2006-12.htm

Perhaps you know the story of the newcomers who were being given a guided tour of Heaven. As they walked along its broad corridors, their guide showed them the huge Baptist section of Heaven, where thousands of people were singing spirituals; and the Catholic section, where thousands of people were playing bingo; and the Anglican section, where thousands of people were embroidering portraits of the Queen. “Now,” said the guide, “I’ll have to ask you to be very quiet. We’re coming to the Methodist section of Heaven. We also allow the more conservative members of the United Church into this section.” Someone asked the guide why it was necessary to be so quiet around the Methodist area of Heaven. “Oh,” said the guide, “the Methodists think they’re the only ones here.”

Yes, the Amurikans are the only ones in heaven, and the rest of us are just deluded fools, or worse, imps who must not be listened to. Cover your ears and go wah-wah, lest you be tricked into straying from the true path ... and dog forbid, some of you maybe not get shot and get to heaven quite so fast.

[rossmonster]

18. Unbelievable attitudes shown here....

Someone above said people outside the US should shut up about this.

I abhore most of what john howard stands for, says and does but if he has done one thing right is was the changes to the national gun laws after 35 people were slaughtered in tasmania. Automatic, Semi Automatic rifles, handguns, shotguns all banned in one swipe and bought back from legal owners. Tough penalties for anyone caught with one. Its not perfect but its a lot better than waiting for the next bloodbath.

For people here to say the rest of the world should shut up and be ignored is equivalent to people overseas closing their minds to any ideas from the US, no matter how good. If you want to live in a balkanised world of ignorance, go for it, but maybe you have more in common with the Bush supporters of this planet than the rest of us.....

[Crayson]

22. At LEAST stop the sale of automatic assault rifles

I mean, as a Swiss citizen I can partly understand owning a gun.
In Switzerland there is currently a discussion about the army gun that is usually stacked at each militia soldiers home.
In recent years there have been several domestic violence cases in which army guns have been used.

Private weapons:
We can obtain a permit and own guns.
BUT NOT fully automatic assault rifles only semi automatic, meaning you have to aim and pull the trigger for each single shot.
And you are only allowed them in your home and on the direct way to and from the shooting range.

Ergo nobody carries a gun in public.
Everybody can defend his home and family.
Everybody can have his sport or with a permit can go hunting.
But no assault rifles in the streets, they belong in a war zone, not a city!

Personally I'm happy with that.
I own a handgun and have been on the shooting rangewith it and with other rifles and it was interesting.
But frankly I'm having more fun with my Bowtech compound bow on the 90m distance than with a gun, plus it strengthens your back und arm musculature enormously.

Cheers,
Crayson

[MadHound]

24. Umm, automatic weapons have been banned in the States for decades

Please inform yourself before commenting, thanks:hi: And frankly, if you do some checking, there are more guns per capita in your country than there are in ours. Same with our neighbor to the north, Canada. Yet since we have higher murder rates here in the US(per capita) doesn't that suggest that it is due to something other than a proliferation of guns? Like perhaps the stress and strains of US society? I think if we addressed these root causes, rather than trying to apply bandaid solutions like banning guns, we would have a lot more success here in the US:shrug:

[MGD]

31. Stress kills more people than guns do every year, make stress illegal.Leave the Bill of rights alone

We're in comnplete agreement.

[iverglas]

45. hmm

Let me know when you plan to aim your stress at me, and I'll think about hopping on that outlaw-stress bandwagon you've got.

I'd hate to think what might happen to any kid caught in that crossfire, too ...

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

25. This is those on the pro RKBA side DO NOT respect the opinions of those from other countires on this

You don't understand our laws, much like allot of people here, but hey they are fellow citizens so we have to listen to and work with them.

Fully automatic weapons have been illegal for the general public since 1934. To get one, joe blow citizen has to go through SEVERAL rounds of background checks and have his local head of law enforcement personally sign off on it. Most will ask for an interview before they do. Even with that, fully automatic weapons literally cost >$20,000 to purchase b/c there are a limited number that are transferrable outside of law enforcement agencies.

So please respectfully, understand our laws before you criticize.

By the way, fully automatic weapons are not very useful for aimed fire. Law Enforcement agencies don't use them, and only certain soldiers are equipped with them. Their job is to provide suppressive fire, not aimed directed fire.

In the last use of an automatic weapon in a crime (illegally obtained and modified by the way), no one except the two gunmen were killed. One was arguably killed with a 9mm handgun from a cop across the street, and the other was killed when he bled out waiting for paramedics after he was shot by a police SEMI-automatic rifle.

[Pavulon]

47. The SIG 550 is a real select fire rifle. The one every serving member

of the army keeps in their home. Those have been highly regulated here since 1934. Only one ever used in a crime.

Interesting the swiss have access to fully automatic weapons and sidearms and that they dont shoot each other.

I wonder if poverty and culture play into that?

[rossmonster]

29. Again...

Ban the semi automatics....
Ban the hand guns....
Ban as much as you can.

If you want a gun it should be single shot only. Bolt action. Preferably limited to small calibre.

There. You've got your precious right to bear arms.

The arms the constitution talks about are those from the 1770s so why restrict it to close to that?

I cant get over how other countries constitutions talk about the right to security, the right to education, the right to shelter,
the right to be treated decently.

Yet the US constitution has the right to carry a leathal weapon in it.

There's ya problem right there kiddies. Spot the lack of balance!

[High Plains]

30. As a society, we are apparently willing to pay this price to keep our guns

Thousands of everyday gun deaths every year, the occasional spectacular like Virginia Tech...

Is it worth it?

No wonder the whole world thinks we're insane.

[MGD]

32. Shall we also give up our right to eat cheeseburgers or to drive cars

or to drink alcohol or to smoke cigarettes? All of these things kill way more people than gun violence. And the rest of the world can't point their collective fingers at us for being insane as they are all just as nucking futs.

[High Plains]

33. We've already made our choice. Now we live and die with it.

We might as well just accept that there will be the occasional Columbine or Virginia Tech or Luby's or McDonald's or hum-drum, everyday workplace shooting. Why all the gnashing of teeth over the victims of our freedoms? We should celebrate them as martyrs to our gun freedom, perhaps?

You wanna eat cheeseburgers or drive cars, that's your business. You wanna become a violent psychopath enabled by lax guns laws, that becomes my concern.

[brentspeak]

46. What do those things have to do with gun violence?

Will allowing nut-cases to own a Glock prevent a heart attack?

[iverglas]

38. fools

All of us out here in the outer darkness. We wander around, imagining that we have the right to health care and paid vacation and reproductive choice, when we need only open our eyes and see the light: we don't have the right to acquire as many murderous weapons of as many kinds as we bloody well choose, and we're nothing but a bunch of baaing subjects.

Incidents like this happen everywhere, at some time or another, and no country that hasn't experienced one recently is immune to another. The recent attempted mass shooting at Dawson College in Montreal (only one person died) was committed by someone in legal possession of registered restricted firearms. The system didn't work in his case; no system works perfectly. But it is far less likely that someone like him and Cho -- as distinct from common or garden criminals -- will legally lay hands on the weapons they need in Canada or the UK or Europe or Australia.


The student body at Dawson College has expressed a desire to help the students in Virgina deal with the effects of this event. Thirty-three people are dead, and others are injured, but thousands and thousands more -- a school, a community, a society -- are harmed and changed by each one that happens.

[Tyler Durden]

44. Oh Gee, THAT will help. NOT.

"Them goldurn FURRINERS want our guns just like them DEMOCRATS!!"

Yeah the accent is a little over the top, but you don't live where they still have "GET U.S. OUT OF THE U.N." billboards on the freeway.