Iran navy says it will launch Iran-built destroyer

[sabra]

Source: Reuters

TEHRAN, April 17 (Reuters) - Iran's navy plans to launch the first Iranian-built destroyer soon, the official IRNA news agency quoted a naval commander as saying on Tuesday.

The announcement in the Gulf port of Bandar Abbas comes at a time of growing tension between Iran and the West over Tehran's nuclear programme, which Washington and others suspect is a cover for making atom bombs. Tehran denies the charge.

"Soon the first Iranian-made destroyer will be launched ... and will surprise the world's military community with its facilities, equipment, capabilities and technology," commander Darioush Ebrahimnejad told a news conference.

He called it one of the most modern ships of its kind in the world, but did not give details or say when it would be officially unveiled. Destroyers are fast warships with guns and torpedoes used to protect other ships.

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/DAH753898.htm

[MADem]

1. Oh....kay.....

:rofl:

One of the 'most modern ships in the world,' they say??? Well, it does appear to have radar and sonar (unless they intend to perform those functions by hand), so that's a start. Indigenously constructed--that'll be interesting to see.

Even when the Shah, who never met a weapons system he didn't like, was in charge, the Iranian Navy was the best in the Persian Gulf town, but nothing to write home about. And that was on a very good day, a long time ago--the decline since then has been nothing short of precipitous....hopefully you won't need a glass bottomed boat to get a look at the thing.

This sounds like one of those sabre-rattling planted pieces to rally the base--a nationalistic attempt to make the country seem as though it is prepared, when it is actually in horrific disrepair--Saddam used to do this shit all the time...

Tehran, April 17, IRNA -- Iranian army will soon launch its own
destroyer, built on the country's indigenous capabilities, Navy
deputy commander Admiral Massoud Sarikhani said here Wednesday.
The destroyer, named Mowj (Wave), has the capability of
providing surface, underwater and air defense shield, he added.
Sarikhani said that the Iranian Navy has the country's waters
under its control and is ready to face any probable foreign threat.
Meanwhile, an Air Force commander said that the Iranian army was
building an air-to-air missile intended "to defend the country's air
space against foreign aggression."
General Mohammad Daneshpour pointed to the US provocations in the
backdrop of the September 11 suicide attack on American landmarks and
said that Iran had expanded its air defense shield throughout the
country.
"Presently, there is a favorable air defense preparedness," he
said.
Daneshpour cited the Air Force's capabilities, including its
ability to build, repair and maintain aircraft, radar and missile
systems.
"The Air Force of the Islamic Republic of Iran is currently
capable of producing fighter and training jets and radar systems,"
Daneshpour said, adding Iranian Azarakhsh aircraft had reached mass
production.
Iranian Defense Minister Admiral Ali Shamkhani in August pledged
that his ministry would push ahead with plans to develop a "defensive"
military force for the country to act as a "deterrent" to regional and
international threats.
He said the ministry was also seeking "to acquire arms with
effective deterrent capabilities," upgrade the hardware in its
aeronautics industries as well as produce military equipment with high
range, precision and destruction.
"The ministry has launched a comprehensive plan to produce and
improve conventional arms for defensive purposes in the aftermath
of the crippling sanctions imposed during and after the 1980-1988
Iraqi-imposed war," Shamkhani said.
Iran has succeeded in producing its own version of a transport
plane, a combat helicopter, a submarine and a guided-missile warship.
Media reported last year that the Iranian Defense Ministry is in
the process of manufacturing three military aircraft.
Iran has successfully test-fired an armor-piercing anti-tank
missile capable of destroying the most sophisticated armored
equipment.
In May, Iran also successfully test-fired a domestically made
solid-fueled missile. The surface-to-surface rocket can be guided to
destroy targets with high accuracy.
The country launched two years ago a version of its Shahab-3
missile with a range of 1,300 km (800 miles).
BH/RR
End


http://www.irna.com/en/tnews/020418162858.etn04.shtml

[plasticsundance]

3. Well ... cojones

You better start invading. Feelin' lucky?

[MADem]

5. Who said anything about that? This is hysterical, though, if you know anything about their

maritime capability at all. They've next to none. Oh, they've got a rubber boat that they swiped from the Brits they captured...perhaps THAT is their new destroyer????

This is clearly for INTERNAL consumption. To rile the base. Anyone who knows their capablility knows this is a huge joke...

[plasticsundance]

9. Let's take a look at Iran's Navy

Iran's ambitious plans for escort and patrol capabilities in the Persian Gulf and the Indian Ocean may not be realized until the Bandar Beheshti naval facility is completed. The country's interest in navigation through the Strait of Hormuz has not diminished, as the contemplated deployment of Chinese-made Silkworm HY-2 surface-to-surface missiles on Larak Island in 1987 clearly indicated. This development underscored Iran's interest in Gulf waters and the navy's role, along with that of Pasdaran units, in protecting them or in denying them to others.

In 1992, Iran and China negotiated a deal for Iran to recieve a fleet of 70-ton Chinese patrol boats with Styx antiship missles. In 1993, Iran bought two Russian Kilo-class submarines and eight mini-submarines from North Korea. All done in an effort to rebuild after the Navy was nearly destoyed after the Islamic Revolution, Iran continued to purchase foreign weapons systems.

Iranian naval forces held several exercises in early 2001 to improve their capabilities and also have had exchange visits with Pakistan and India. As a result, defense officials have called for the consolidation of Iran's commercial and military fleets to increase their strengths, overcome any weaknesses, take advantage of opportunities, and address future threats. Iranian naval forces held the three-day Fath-9 exercises in the northern end of the Persian Gulf in Mahshahr during the first week of March 2001. These exercises involved 6,000 people from the regular navy and air force, the Islamic Revolution Guard Corps navy and aircorps, the Basij Resistance Forces, and the Law Enforcement Forces.

In July 2002 a conventional-arms sale triggered sanctions on several Chinese companies. Beijing had transfered high-speed catamaran missile patrol boats to Iran. The C-14 patrol boats are outfitted with anti-ship cruise missiles. Short-range anti-ship missiles for the patrol boats also were sold from China to Iran in January 2002. The catamaran and anti-ship missile sales were first disclosed by The Washington Times in May 2002, shortly after the first of the new C-14 patrol boats was observed by US military intelligence at an Iranian port. The high-speed gunboat can carry up to eight C-701 anti-ship cruise missiles, and usually have one gun. There have also been reports of Iran possesing another type of anti-ship system. Up to 16 Sunburst anti-ship missile systems were traded in the early 1990's from the Ukraine.

Fifteen semisubmersible gunboats used in special operations have been sent to Iran from North Korea, "The Washington Times" reported on 16 December 2002. The boats were shipped aboard an Iranian freighter. U.S. intelligence officials expressed concern that Iran could use the gunboats to threaten U.S. ships in the region. In an indication of Iran's willingness to use the means at its disposal, Multinational Interdiction Force deputy coordinator Commander Nick Chatwin of the British Navy in a 16 December Reuters report displayed a photograph of an oil tanker with a hole in it that was created by a rocket-propelled grenade launched from an Iranian naval vessel.

more ...

[MADem]

13. Let's cut to the chase Strength=18,000

Game, set, match.

[plasticsundance]

10. Let's dig deeper, shall we?

As Sun Tzu said, and I paraphrase, one should respect his/her enemy.

Swarming tactics are not new; they have been practiced by land armies for thousands of years. Such tactics require light, mobile forces with substantial striking power, capable of rapidly concentrating to attack an enemy from multiple directions and then rapidly dispersing.

Iranian naval swarming tactics focus on surprising and isolating the enemy’s forces and preventing their reinforcement or resupply, thereby shattering the enemy’s morale and will to fight. Iran has practiced both mass and dispersed swarming tactics. The former employs mass formations of hundreds of lightly armed and agile small boats that set off from different bases, then converge from different directions to attack a target or group of targets. The latter uses a small number of highly agile missile or torpedo attack craft that set off on their own, from geographically dispersed and concealed locations, and then converge to attack a single target or set of targets (such as a tanker convoy). The dispersed swarming tactic is much more difficult to detect and repel because the attacker never operates in mass formations.

During the Iran-Iraq War, the Pasdaran navy used mass swarming tactics; as a result, its forces proved vulnerable to attack by U.S. naval and air power. Because of this, it is unlikely that such tactics would be used for anything but diversionary attacks in the future. In today’s Iranian naval forces, mass swarming tactics have largely given way to dispersed swarming.

Dispersed swarming tactics are most successful when attackers can elude detection through concealment and mobility, employ stand-off firepower, and use superior situational awareness (intelligence), enabling them to find and engage the enemy first. This accounts for a number of trends in Iranian naval force development in the past two decades. The first is the acquisition and development of small, fast weapons platforms—particularly lightly armed small boats and missile-armed fast-attack craft; extended- and long-range shore- and sea-based antiship missiles; midget and diesel attack submarines (for intelligence gathering, covert mine laying, naval special warfare, and conventional combat operations); low-signature reconnaissance and combat unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs); and the adaptation of the Shahab-3 medium-range surface-to-surface missile armed with a cluster warhead reportedly carrying 1,400 bomblets, for use against enemy naval bases and carrier battle groups.

Iran has also sought to improve its ability to achieve surprise by employing low-observable technologies (such as radar-absorbent paints), strict communications discipline, stringent emissions control measures, passively or autonomously guided weapons systems (such as the Kowsar series of television-guided antiship missiles), and sophisticated command-and-control arrangements. To support its naval swarm tactics, Iran has encouraged decentralized decisionmaking and initiative, as well as autonomy and self-sufficiency among naval combat elements.

more ...

Conclusion

Current Iranian naval deployments are aimed at deterring an American attack and—in the event of hostilities—entrapping and destroying U.S. naval forces in the Persian Gulf, at which time U.S. regional bases would be targeted with rocket and missile strikes as well. Iranian naval forces would conduct simultaneous close-in and stand-off attacks, relying on swarming tactics developed and refined during the Iran-Iraq War and highlighted in recent naval exercises in the Persian Gulf. The performance of Lebanese Hizballah guerrillas, who used similar tactics against much larger and more powerful Israeli ground forces in southern Lebanon last summer, provides some insight into what the U.S. Navy should expect in the event of a confrontation with Iran in the Persian Gulf.

[MADem]

14. Oh, don't be foolish. We aren't going to have the iron version of a fucking small craft out there

on it's own, like Israel did. There will be plenty of capability to target those bastards before they get anywhere near a Navy vessel.

I mean, really. But go ahead and tout the vaunted Iranian Navy. Like I say, if they dared to fuck with us, you could view them from a glass-bottom boat.

The Navy and the Air Force are the two forces that have not--YET, anyway--been totally fucked up by GWB. While other forces have been bloated with felons and non-high school grads, the USN and USAF are force-shaping DOWNWARD to accomodate total end-strength limitations set by Congress. They've kept only the top of the line in terms of quality.

[plasticsundance]

17. You have yet to address the issues of what I posted.

I don't know why you're using the Israeli gunboat example with the recent Israeli invasion of Lebanon. The link I posted referred to the Israeli/Hezbollah ground battle as far as what the US could expect from Iran in the Persian Gulf.

First, you denigrate the Iranian naval power, as if insisting on a false argument that Iran seeks naval superiority against the US. The Iranians are under no such illusions. Clearly, the links I posted offer evidence that the Iranians have been building a modern naval force that will use a strategy that will undermine through dispersed swarming tactics, creating havoc on oil tankers passing through the Strait of Hormuz. The Iranians have already learned that mass swarming tactics do not work against the powerful US Navy.

The Iranians do not have to win, and the US, as with the learning curve in Iraq, does not know how to define victory. The Achilles Heel for the US is its superior and expensively armed military. The US 400-billion plus annual military price goes up against much smaller militaries that elude the ultimate strategies of the US.

The US will fire off smart weapons that must be replaced at a high price tag, and this is coupled in an era of an ever increasing low purchasing power of the dollar and a runaway Federal Reserve creating money and credit against an ever widening twin deficit.

Iran knows it doesn't have to win, because it can simply rely on tactics that will help it wait out the US' path to burning itself out.

I would refer you to ancient Rome's attempts to over power Persia. There's a lesson to be learned there for the US.

[MADem]

18. When you use "as if" I lose interest. -

The discussion focused on swarming. It also focused on Naval power. We aren't going to be 'alone' out there in the Gulf. And we aren't going to engage in any 'land war' with those guys, so put that shit out of your head.

The Iranian Navy clearly does not seek superiority against us, because they won't get it. That's like the kindergarten basketball team seeking superiority against the LA Lakers. And that is a kind analogy.

I don't think you realize what dire straits the Iranian economy is in. If you think the dollar is shit, the rial is toilet paper. The infrastructure there is CRUMBLING. The highways haven't been properly mended since the damned seventies. The paint on the buildings at the old Shah Reza air base is the SAME paint--not the same color, the same paint. And it's almost gone.

They have no spare cash. They're spending hand over fist to pay the widows and orphans of the I/I war, and to pay to refine gasoline offshore because they have insufficient--woefully so--refining capability.

There will never be 'boots on the ground' in Iran. Never. We've no interest in occupying, because their neighbors, the Russkies, won't like it and won't put up with it, and we've no wish to get into a shitty back and forth with them. So get over the Iraq and Afghanistan paradigm.

Iran, IF--and it's a way less likely 'if' than many here think--we do anything to them, will be a sea and air evolution, with no occupation. And it won't happen without provocation. Serious provocation.

[plasticsundance]

19. Lose interest? Followed by six paragraphs. Time to have fun ...

The discussion focused on swarming. It also focused on Naval power. We aren't going to be 'alone' out there in the Gulf. And we aren't going to engage in any 'land war' with those guys, so put that shit out of your head.

What discussion? You mean the article I linked? Because you didn't focus on swarming, let alone making a distinction, as did the article, between mass swarming and disperse swarming as an Iranian naval tactic.

You brought up what happened to the Israeli gunboat during the latest Israel/Lebanon conflict, without drawing details of how it related to our "discussion."

As for a land war on the part of the US against the Iranians, I really don't know, either do you. I guess it would depend on what it takes to obtain the objectives.

he Iranian Navy clearly does not seek superiority against us, because they won't get it. That's like the kindergarten basketball team seeking superiority against the LA Lakers. And that is a kind analogy.

I fail to see the point you're trying to make. Of course, the Iranians know they won't gain superiority against us, just as the Vietminh and Viet Cong knew they couldn't gain superiority against us. They didn't/don't have to.

As for "a kind of analogy," isn't that like being kind of pregnant?

I don't think you realize what dire straits the Iranian economy is in. If you think the dollar is shit, the rial is toilet paper. The infrastructure there is CRUMBLING. The highways haven't been properly mended since the damned seventies. The paint on the buildings at the old Shah Reza air base is the SAME paint--not the same color, the same paint. And it's almost gone.

Oh Pl-ueeze. Iran is allegedly on the verge of crumbling since 1979, but in a couple of years will be coming up to the 30-year anniversary of the Iranian Revolution. If the dollar does collapse, and I'm not saying it will, the global market will collapse across the board.

Iran has the largest increase in proved oil reserves, a 5% increase in 2005, shadowing even Saudi Arabia with 4.9% in 2005. China, India, and even Europe are becoming ever increasingly reliant on Iran oil to power their growing economic might.

I would also suggest you read "All the Shah's Men" by Stephen Kinzer where he spends a chapter on how historically the Persian mindset is willing to endure hardships, setbacks, and differences in order to maintain the Persian ideals.

They have no spare cash. They're spending hand over fist to pay the widows and orphans of the I/I war, and to pay to refine gasoline offshore because they have insufficient--woefully so--refining capability.

Well ... whether you want to face the fact or not, Iran is spending money towards obtaining nuclear power capacity. It is also going to supply Iraq with electrical power and wheat.

It is true Iran has some problems with refining capabilities, but the following link gives a much more objective and realistic picture:

Iran Refining Sector

According to Juan Cole, Iran is flushed with oil money and is developing relations with Iraq it hasn't had since the 50's.

There will never be 'boots on the ground' in Iran. Never. We've no interest in occupying, because their neighbors, the Russkies, won't like it and won't put up with it, and we've no wish to get into a shitty back and forth with them. So get over the Iraq and Afghanistan paradigm.

As I said before, it depends on what objectives are set and met by the US in accordance with Iran. As for boots on the ground, there are probably already Kurdish boots on the ground coming from Iraq. You do realize there have been ongoing skirmishes between Iraqi Kurds and Iran.

As for what the Russians will tolerate, the US already has troops in the nation of Georgia and thousands of troops in Central Asia buffering the Russian border. The Russians also know that Western powers have been meddling in Ukrainian politics. Russia also knows that the US has been meddling in Dagestan to instigate problems for Russia in Chechnya.

You're suggesting that Russia will draw the line at Iran?

Iran, IF--and it's a way less likely 'if' than many here think--we do anything to them, will be a sea and air evolution, with no occupation. And it won't happen without provocation. Serious provocation.

True. Nothing might happen, but that does not dilute the issues at hand. After all, according to Rumsfeld, the Iraq campaign would not last longer than three weeks, and certainly not six-months. Go figure.

[MADem]

20. You bring shit up, and then you get mad when I mention it.

You aren't looking for discussion, you're looking for a fight. Sorry, I am not interested. Life is too short.

I spent a lot of time in that region, I am not talking "from theory." I've seen with my own eyes the things of which I speak. So pick up your pompoms and join the glorious revolutionary military cheerleading squad, for all I care. I know what I know. You think what you think. We'll leave it at that.

I will make one notation--"KIND analogy" is the opposite of "CRUEL analogy." No "of" was involved in the fashioning of the phrase, and pregnancy has nothing to do with it.


So long.

[plasticsundance]

21. You're indulging in what psychology calls projecting

You write that I'm looking for a fight, but I'm trying to have a civil discussion, but look at the tone of your posts as compared to mine. I think you believe that anyone that disagrees with you is looking for a fight. I merely asked if you're so pooh-pooh on Iranians military capabilities, show the balls to attack them. Of course, I was being facetious, considering that an attitude such as yours was attributed to the neoconservatives towards Iraq. We all know how that portended as being a harbinger for the current situation in Iraq.

War is not to be ever taken lightly, and that is why it's a last resort. Saddam's military capabilities were far below what Iran currently has. Therefore, I regard my initial response to you as valid and a need for concern.

You have not presented any counter arguments to the specifics I have given. I have many Iranian friends that currently live in Iran. I have some Iranian friends that have sought refuge in the US or Europe. One is a feminist. However, the latter hardly endorses what the current US attitude and policy is towards many member states in the ME.

[MADem]

23. Gee, I lived there. I have Iranian friends too. So what? And so long. NT

[plasticsundance]

24. Ho-hum

<sigh>

Tally-ho. Cheers.

[MUAD_DIB]

22. The US was attacked on 911 with nothing more than boxcutters and 19 guys.

Maybe a few rubber boats with enough eplosives is all they need.

[Skink]

2. Iranian Ingenuity. Made in Iran for Iran.

[jmowreader]

4. It won't take much to "surprise the world"

It's a third-world country that has no tradition of naval architecture, so right now everyone's envisioning the "first Iranian-built destroyer" as being about one step up from a rubber raft with a machinegun in it.

We know Iran can make Silkworm missiles, so they've got SOME kind of a technological base. We also know they have Sunburns and may have Sizzlers. Assuming the Iranian Navy can make a serviceable ship that fits these missiles, they're gonna have a nice weapon system.

Or they WILL until the first battle of Bush's Guernica II, when the Navy will send it to the bottom with all hands.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. Welcome to the 19th century, Iran!

:eyes:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Javaman]

8. "Indigenously constructed"

The bow is in the back and the stern is in the front.

This way why you think they are coming at you they are actually going the other way!!

[SayWhatYo]

12. lol

[mitchtv]

11. Boy, that ship is going to be the first ship

the Gringos sink. Sad, but bushlike

[Pavulon]

15. Specialty reactors use 90% enriched uranium

The reactors in nuclear subs use highly enriched uranium. So if they build a "peaceful" program that requires 90% (the kind you use in nukes) they can circumvent the rule that disallows countries from developing that grade of uranium.

The have no way of developing that type of technology, BTW. The Westinghouse reactors are quite complex and not within the reach of a 3rd world nation who can not build basic industrial systems. (airframes, turbines, computers)

[Sirveri]

16. Submarine reactors do not require 90%+ enrichment.

Soviets use 40% enriched, they just end up refueling more. That's still considered nuclear weapons grade material however, though it makes the warhead heavier and less easy to make into a missle mount. I'm pretty sure they said their program was for power generation, not naval nuclear, if so that would only require LEU of about 3-5%.

And the Westinghouse reactors are NOT complex, they are actually surprisingly simple (though I haven't seen the S6W platform yet, probably never will sadly). The difficult part about designing/fabricating the reactor is the math/nuclear physics and the fine tolerances. That and being able to make steam turbines helps (for the steam plant). Don't need to make reduction gears, SSN Narwhal proved that. Also doesn't even have to be PWR, the Narwhal launched with sodium S1G. They already have diesels though, which are better for brown water close in ops. The only reason they could want SSN capability would be to do long distance convoy strikes sea lane interdiction/denial strikes, distance raiding, and getting into launch range for cruise missles (assuming they build a sub with cruise missle launch capabilities, which is probably quite a ways off for them).

But ultimately why bother building your own submarine when Russia has next gen Severdonsk class subs sitting unfinished in shipyards just waiting for any country to fund their completion. Buy that and a tech support agreement, you'd have delivery in 1 year, be shakedown avail complete 2 after that, get some Russian 'advisors' during the shakedown cruise and they'll train the entire crew. Blam, instant SSN force.