Florida to restore felons' voting rights

[Judi Lynn]

Source: USA Today/Associated Press

Florida to restore felons' voting rights
Posted 7m ago

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — Most felons released from prison will have their voting and other civil rights restored under a rule approved Thursday by Republican Gov. Charlie Crist and the state clemency board.

All but the most violent felons would avoid the need to get on a long list for a hearing before the board, which sometimes takes years.

The board voted 3-1 with Attorney General Bill McCollum, another Republican, strongly objecting.

Crist has made it clear since before he was governor that he was in favor of making it easier for felons who have done their time to vote. He pushed the measure forcefully, and rejected McCollum's assertion that it was welcoming the worst of the worst back into society too easily.




Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-04-05-felons-rights_N.htm

[wakeme2008]

1. Big Kick and Big Nom

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Fovea]

2. Such wonderful news

Next step, paper ballots.

[Bitwit1234]

3. see the difference in real republicans as compared to the bush

family crime ring.

[SharonAnn]

4. I respect Crist's decision and honor him for it. It's the right thing to do.

I'm just surprised that there is a GOP elected official who tries to do the right thing.

There are not very many of them left. There used to be more.

I hope this shows a resurgence in true "moderate" GOP officials. I'd like to see some more of them so that we can develop bi-partisan solutions to the many issues facing us.

It's just not good to have a party that's run by extremists with no room for others, whether it's their party or ours.

True democracy should have many voices, but the GOP have been screaming everyone else down. It would be nice if they'd show respect for others.

Snark point: Maybe this is because there are so many GOP felons in Florida and they want them to be able to vote.

[samsingh]

38. Crist seems to be pro-democracy.

i'm impressed with him.

[seafan]

5. This is wonderful news for democracy in Florida.

Clemency board votes to automatically restore felons' rights

.....

The issue was spotlighted after the disputed 2000 presidential election, when many non-convicts were purged from voter rolls because the state's felons database was plagued with errors.

Florida was one of three U.S. states along with Kentucky and Virginia that make felons take action to restore their civil rights. In most other states, those rights are restored once people completes their sentence, probation or parole.

After someone has served their time, Crist said they should get their rights back as a matter of justice.

Still, Crist's plan was a compromise, carving out murderers and other violent felons who would still have to either go before the board for a hearing or at least be subject to review.

Voting with Crist for the plan were Republican Agriculture Commissioner Charlie Bronson and state Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink, a Democrat.

And, as usual:

The board voted 3-1 with Attorney General Bill McCollum, another Republican, strongly objecting to changing the Jim Crow-era ban on felons automatically getting their rights back once they finish their sentences.

But now, old Bill is in IN THE MINORITY. Get with the program, Mr. Attorney General. You have now officially become a dinosaur.

[Up2Late]

14. This is NOT a Good thing! This is voting rights restitution for Rich People Only!

See my post below of the Florida ACLU's Press Release. This new rule does nothing if you don't have the money to pay Restitution, which is a great deal for people with family wealth, but of the Working Person who still can't find a good job, it does nothing.

This just creates another Republican Talking Point to use against Democrats next election.

<http://www.aclu.org/votingrights/exoffenders/29259prs20070402.html>

[seafan]

21. Restitution must be "paid" before restoring voting rights, imho.

In some cases, I would think, restitution may not involve money. It could also involve community service. So, all considered, this new law removes the onerous 5-year waiting period and is a very good decision.

Under the old rules, convicted felons were not allowed to vote, hold public office, sit on juries or hold certain state-issued professional licenses. The right to own a firearm is not included.

The change ends the current five-year waiting period in Florida for convicted felons to apply for the restoration of those rights if they have committed certain crimes.

State officials estimate that about 80 percent of the 515,000 ex-felons in the state in those categories will now be eligible for automatic restoration of their rights.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/05/State/Felons_voting_rights_.shtml

[slampoet]

29. It has been my experience that Money resititution is usually piared with property crimes,

..thus punishing those that must steal along with the rest.

[Up2Late]

36. I have no problem with the practice of required Restitution payment, I was paid it after my Car...

...was stolen from my Orlando Apartment complex parking lot in 1993. It was later recovered in fairly good shape in a Police Sting operation, but Restitution always involves Money. That's the definition of Restitution Payments (see below).

My problem is with this so-called "great deal" as it's being characterized. This deal sounds good, as it's being reported in the media, but if you actually look at the details, this deal is a gift to the wealthy.

What is Restitution?

Restitution is the money that a judge orders an offender to pay to the victim. It is part of the offender’s sentence and is based on the victim’s expenses resulting from the crime and the offender’s ability to pay. The expenses might include medical/dental expenses, lost wages due to the crime or stolen or damaged property. However, court ordered restitution does not guarantee payment by the offender. <http://www.aardvarc.org/victim/restitution.shtml>

<http://www.aardvarc.org/victim/states/flvic.shtml#FLRestitution>

Florida info below:

Restitution
Where used herein, refers to monetary payment or non-monetary service by the offender to the victim for damage/loss caused directly or indirectly by the defendant or that is related to the defendant's criminal episode. <http://www.dc.state.fl.us/facilities/comcorinfo/definitions.html>

...A total of 808,355 public service hours were completed during the period of 7/1/04 through 6/30/05 by persons under supervision. Based on the current Federal minimum wage of $5.15 per hour, this equaled a cost savings of over four (4) million dollars to the citizens of Florida.... <http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/ccmyths.html>

Now according to Florida Department of Corrections website (Links and text above), you can work off your Restitution though "non-monetary service" at a rate of $5.15 per hour (that's assuming that they even credit you the full amount), so working off a $50,000 debt would take almost 5 years of 5 days a week, 8 hours a day work, without any pay at all.

How many people do you figure could afford, or would want, that option? Not me. Given that choice, or spending another 5 to 10 years in jail, I'd probably pick jail.

Maybe you can find the percentage of people who took this option, but I couldn't find it. Here are a few more links you could look through, but I didn't find that info there.

<http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/cc/index.html>

<http://www.dc.state.fl.us/probation.html>

<http://www.dc.state.fl.us/facilities/comcor/index.html>

I've posted more info at other parts of this thread, so I won't repeat it here.

[SoCalDem]

34. Restoration of rights needs to be a BUILT-IN provision

of the final release from parole/probation.

It needs to be nothing more "fancy" than a check box on the final paperwork. The person/persons/department in charge of entering the final information into a database, should be able to just "check that box", and it's DONE..

All this dancing around and attachment of 'special maneuvers', is just another hoop to jump through, and after the REPUBLICAN legislature there gets through with Crist's proposal, it will be 2010 anyway.

People convicted of ELECTION FRAUD and or POLITICAL MALFEASANCE in office should NEVER get their voting rights restored.

[Orsino]

35. ...or even the default!

I like the idea of an annual governmental requirement to check a box to deny civil rights. Let's put the onus where it belongs.

[ProudDad]

43. In California, It's automatic

just go down and register to vote once on probation or finished with parole. That's right, folks who are on probation (whether they've finished 'paying restitution' or not) are automatically eligible to vote.

Only incarcerated individuals, which in California includes anyone on parole -- parole = in CDCr's custody -- cannot vote.

It's too bad we can't be as sane as Maine.

[hlthe2b]

6. Boy... we should put this out on a series of billboards, it is so

rare and noteworthy: a Republican doing the ethical and honorable thing! My heavens....!



Hey, I'll give kudos where they are deserved. :toast: to Gov. Christ.

[Zynx]

7. Adios Jim Crow Law

[The Count]

10. That was going to be my comment! Worth repeating: Buh-bye, Jim!

[jody]

8. If the new policy restores ALL civil rights, then a convicted felon's right to keep and bear arms is

also restored.

[ProudDad]

44. Nope

the "right" to arm bears is explicitly excluded everywhere.

Bad for the NRA, good for the rest of us...

[jody]

46. "explicitly excluded everywhere"? Not in Florida and see my post below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=136638&mesg_id=136657

ON EDIT ADD
790.23 Felons and delinquents; possession of firearms, ammunition, or electric weapons or devices unlawful.

(1) It is unlawful for any person to own or to have in his or her care, custody, possession, or control any firearm, ammunition, or electric weapon or device, or to carry a concealed weapon, including a tear gas gun or chemical weapon or device, if that person has been:
(a) Convicted of a felony in the courts of this state;
(b) Found, in the courts of this state, to have committed a delinquent act that would be a felony if committed by an adult and such person is under 24 years of age;
(c) Convicted of or found to have committed a crime against the United States which is designated as a felony;
(d) Found to have committed a delinquent act in another state, territory, or country that would be a felony if committed by an adult and which was punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year and such person is under 24 years of age; or
(e) Found guilty of an offense that is a felony in another state, territory, or country and which was punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year.
(2) This section shall not apply to a person convicted of a felony whose civil rights and firearm authority have been restored.
(3) Any person who violates this section commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

[mzmolly]

9. I gotta say, I'm glad a Republican has taken this stance.

Great news!

[hogwyld]

19. ON top of that, the GOP signed it's own death warrant

600k ex felons will NOT vote GOP, but will overwhelmingly vote DEM. Florida is about to be as safe for us as California and New York.

[mzmolly]

20. I don't know that I agree with that assertion.

But, I do know that they turned off the so called "moral" minority.

[hogwyld]

23. You don't think those 600,000 votes won't matter?

As razor thin as the split is in Florida, I think those voters will remember who has always fought for them, the Dems. Even if only half register, that's enough votes to swing a LOT of races our way, which leads to redistricting, which leads to the Dems being permanent majority status. This is one reason why California is so Blue even though we only really control San Diego to San Francisco. The rest of the state is fairly conservative.

[mzmolly]

24. I think it's absurd to say "felons vote Democratic."

This is a Republican talking point.

[slampoet]

30. We already know that Republicans Elect Felons

[ProudDad]

45. You're both right

Ex-felons (PLEASE!) do tend to vote more Democratic.

Republicans DO elect felons.

[hogwyld]

32. Nowhere in my post did I say "felons vote democratic"

If you can point that out, I will eat my crow and enjoy it. What I'm saying, that due to our racist judicial system, a disproportionate number of ex and current felons are non white (black, hispanic. Now, since blacks overwhelmingly vote Democratic due to our shared values, I can extrapolate the increased numbers that will vote for us and not them. That is why I'm so sure of the GOP death in FL., and why the GOP is so terrified of their votes.

[Joe Chi Minh]

48. Assuming they can afford to pay such resititution in full before the election,

and it is duly accredited by honest officials. That's a bg "if", when you consider that most of them will not be Republican-type "sharks" of Big Business, but people tempted to steal on account of their penury, in the first place.

So why are you all exulting, after that post in which Up2Late took the trouble to explain the Republican scam that this is?

All electoral laws should be federally enacted and enforced. It is now more clear than ever, with this endless stream of indictments and imminent indictments of high-level, Republican officials and sponsors, that a presumption of innocence on their part by reason of their high status and/or high office, is anything but prudent; rather a presumption of criminality would seem the prudent recourse.

Consequently - sexual violence or predation apart - a proscription, or as in this case, an attachment of conditions in respect of poorer felons against their voting, is itself criminal.

[Up2Late]

11. I hate to be the one to say it, but the ACLU in Florida has some "Concerns" with this plan.

(Here's the Press Release, sure would have been nice if the AP had published this.)

ACLU of Florida Raises Concerns Over Flaws in Civil Rights Restoration Plan (4/2/2007)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: [e-mail]

TALLAHASSEE, FL – The American Civil Liberties Union of Florida today applauded Governor Charlie Crist’s announcement that he and the cabinet (sitting as the Board of Executive Clemency) will address civil rights restoration for ex-offenders through clemency reform this week. However, the ACLU warned that any plan that has exclusions or requires restitution to be paid before civil rights can be restored would be unfair.

Such burdens hinder the ability for ex-offenders to obtain employment to pay restitution, support themselves and their families and successfully re-integrate into society.

“We are encouraged that the governor is taking the lead and will soon announce his plans for clemency reform,” said Muslima Lewis, Director of the ACLU of Florida’s Voting Rights Project. “But clemency reform should be meaningful. The state should automatically restore civil rights to all ex-offenders once they have completed all non-monetary terms of their sentence and supervision – not perpetuate financial barriers and make the difficult transition back into society even more difficult.”

The plan to be set forth by the clemency board reportedly would continue to disenfranchise those most in need by denying restoration of civil rights if they cannot afford to pay restitution. Although Governor Crist and Florida Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink have been heading in the right direction with the reforms, said the ACLU, they are being met with resistance from Attorney General Bill McCollum and Agriculture Commissioner Charles Bronson, who are members of the cabinet.

The ACLU agrees that restitution should be paid, but said that without restoration of civil rights (and the eligibility for state occupational licenses), it will be more difficult for individuals to fulfill this obligation. Without the ability to work, ex-offenders are unable to pay restitution and become productive citizens.

“This clemency reform solution falls short of what is needed and fails to achieve the goals that it is intended to address,” said Larry Helm Spalding, Legislative Staff Counsel for the ACLU of Florida. “Simply restoring the rights of some while continuing to relegate others to a second class citizenship is an unfair and unjust system. It is a vicious circle that can be ended by the Board of Executive Clemency.”

Civil rights are denied to nearly one million ex-offenders in Florida, more than any other state. Civil rights include the right to vote, to hold public office and to sit on a jury. Civil rights restoration is required before ex-offenders can apply for any one of nearly a hundred occupational licenses. Only two other states, Kentucky and Virginia, impose lifetime bans on civil rights to ex-offenders that have completed all non-monetary terms of their sentence.

The Ex-Offender Task Force, which was commissioned by former Governor Jeb Bush, issued its report in late December finding that people who have not had their civil rights restored face “a significant barrier to employment, in part because of the difficulty in securing restoration.”

More information is online at: www.aclufl.org/issues/voting_rights/florida_voting_ban.cfm and www.restorerights.org

<http://www.aclu.org/votingrights/exoffenders/29259prs20070402.html>

[Zynx]

16. Most states require full sentence completion, including restitution.

In Wisconsin, failure to pay restitution is a violation of probation, which means back to jail, which means back to not voting.

[Up2Late]

17. Except in Wisconsin, you get your vote back while you are out of prison, working...

...to pay off your obligation, Florida is not like that. And this plan looks like a "Pay us first," then you get your voting rights back, which is still a bad deal for Poor People.

This is an excellent deal for Rich people.

And how do most "rich people" usually vote? That's Right! Republican.

This sounds good in the papers, but it's not the break-though that the RW controlled MSM is portraying it as.

[mzmolly]

22. How much are the fees?

:shrug:

[Up2Late]

26. It's not a fee, it's Restitution and it depends on the Damages claimed by the victim.

For example: The Guy who stole my car in 1993 did about $700.00 in damage, so for about 10 years I got a check evey month for about $10 to $20 Dollars, until he had paid off the $700.00 he cost me.

Now let's say I had a car that was worth $150,000.00, instead of a Toyota Supra with low mileage (worth about $10,000.00) and say the guy had trashed the interior of the $150,000.00 car and it cost $50,000.00 to fix the interior, which the owner of this $150,000.00 car claims.

This hypothetical guy, once he's done serving his time, will either need to pay $100.00 a month for the next 42 years or stay in jail for another 20 or 30 years (just an example, it's up to a judge to determine the alternative to Restitution) or maybe just go back to doing some sort of criminal activity to earn the money quicker...

Or, if the ex-offender just happens to be a "mis-guided kid" from a rich family, who can afford to pay off the "kid's" Restitution debt, he gets his old life back fairly quickly.

I'm not against paying Restitution, just deals like this that are basically like a "Get out of Jail Free" card for rich people.

[mzmolly]

27. Wow, I was not aware of that.

:wow: I agree it's absurd.

[Bridget Burke]

25. Sounds like a step in the right direction--but it still needs work.

Here in effing TEXAS--voting rights are restored automatically. Once the sentence/parole/probation are finished.

[K8-EEE]

12. Uh-oh, Ann Coulter and Jeb Bush's kids

will be able to vote now....hey how's her voter fruad thing going, anybody heard any news?

[tom_paine]

13. Wow. An honest Republican! The best thing for our nation is for Honest Republicans

to regain control of their party, investigate, indict, impeach, imprison where genuine felonious criminal wrongdoing is found, then let us move forward together as Americans and make our country great again!

Somehow the Bushevik strategery of propoganda, lies, sub-media, etc., made philsophies that could not have been heard outside a KKK meeting, relevant.

[autorank]

15. 600,000 Floridians will now be able to vote!!!! Bravo, Bravisimo!!!

Florida politics will never be the same, Charlie Crist's problems with a right wing Republican legislature are over after the next election because this is theirs Waterloo.

600,000 or more Floridians are prevented to vote due to Felon Disenfranchisement. Mostly male, mostly black, this group will now have their voting rights restored. Do the math, if even 50% of those folks register and vote, it's going to account for a profound shift.

Check out The SENTENCING PROJECT for full details on this national rip off.

People who serve their time have paid their debt. Denying them the vote is just carrying forward the shameful and deliberate policies that arose after Reconstruction was crushed with the specific intent of suppressing and eliminating the votes by black Americans.

Crist has no apparent political benefit as a Republican. I think he did it just because it was the right thing to do. Good for him!!!

K&R

[hogwyld]

18. This is great news!

I think if your assumptions are correct, all of those black voters will vote Democratic. That means the death of the GOP in FL if we're lucky.

[autorank]

40. It means a lot of problems for any Republican not named Crist!;)

And that's a good thing. Actually, Crist has had trouble with the Republicans in the Florida Legislature. The next election, he may have a very friendly group of Democrats to work with.

This news is absolute history!

Check this out (it's short): http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0703/S00134.htm

[hogwyld]

47. Thanks for the link!

Next time I'm down in Florida, I'll dance a little jig on the grave of the GOP.

[slampoet]

28. It's so nice that the GOP Politicians will be able to vote for themselves again!!

[pigpickle]

31. Now it's time to push Kentucky and Virginia to follow suit

[Orsino]

33. Wow! Floridians encouraging *more* people to vote?

Bravo! Your government seems to be doing something right.

Hope this is contagious. Criminal justice in America is too effed-up for its victims to be silenced so completely.

[mvd]

37. Good news - I'd go further

If you've served your debt to society, all your rights should be restored.

[Patsy Stone]

39. I am lovin' my Republican governor.

Go, Charlie!

[ProudDad]

41. This was a very heartening story

If it can happen in FL, maybe it can happen in the rest of the states that retain those anti-black post-reconstruction racist laws.

Much information here: http://sentencingproject.org/IssueAreaHome.aspx?IssueID=4

With a list of the laws by state here:

http://sentencingproject.org/Admin%5CDocuments%5Cpublications%5Cfd_bs_fdlawsinus.pdf


What most people don't know is that there are only a few states, mainly in the South that have lifetime disenfranchisement for ex-felons. Most states allow one to vote again once released from custody, parole and/or probation.

[WindRavenX]

42. Great move

You do the time, you're back in society.You still have constitutional rights.

[Akoto]

49. As a Floridian, it pains me to say this, but ...

I like Charlie Crist as governor. Yes, even if he's a Republican. He's far from perfect, but who among us has achieved perfection? He seems to have his head on straight about a lot of things, and he's certainly a far sight better than Jeb.

[Judi Lynn]

50. What was Charlie Crist thinking?

What was Charlie Crist thinking?
Why did a Republican governor just add tens of thousands of Democrats to the voter rolls in Florida?

By Farhad Manjoo



April 6, 2007 | During his campaign for the Florida governorship last fall, Charlie Crist frequently expressed deep moral opposition to the state's practice of permanently prohibiting convicted felons from exercising their right to vote. But Crist is a Republican, and his promise to fix Florida's notorious felon-voting ban sometimes sounded like nothing more than campaign puffery. Felon disenfranchisement has long given Republicans a considerable boost at the polls in Florida; if the state's ex-cons had been allowed to vote in 2000, George W. Bush would now be the commissioner of baseball. Was Charlie Crist really going to kill this political golden goose?

~snip~
Why would Charlie Crist change the game? The simplest answer, says Uggen, is "courage and principle." He points out that activist groups like the American Civil Liberties Union have led the fight to change state felon-voting laws across the country. But their efforts have been stymied, especially in Florida, where the felon-voting ban is constitutionally sanctioned. Only a governor could have done away with it, and Uggen notes that a Republican governor might have had more political room to maneuver on the issue than a Democrat. Any Democrat who moves to restore felons' voting rights "becomes instantly vulnerable to the charge that it's a naked power grab," he points out. Still, in Maryland, the Democratic-led Legislature has just passed a bill loosening restrictions on felons' right to vote; Democratic Gov. Martin O'Malley has said he's leaning toward signing it.

Crist's personal popularity in Florida has also helped. Since taking office in January, Crist has had an extremely good run in the governor's office. He pushed through a popular measure to lower property insurance rates, and he's looking to do the same for property taxes. Crist also banned touch-screen voting in the state. A recent poll put his approval rating at an amazing 73 percent; even Democrats in Florida overwhelmingly approve of his performance. Republican presidential candidates have been wooing him, calling him a "new Republican" who's cultivating a broader base. Restoring felons' voting rights certainly falls in line with such an effort -- as Uggen notes, it could end up helping Crist, too. When he runs for reelection, perhaps tens of thousands of people who would never have considered voting for a Republican will cast a vote for the governor who finally gave them their rights back.

The governor and three other state officials -- Republicans Bill McCollum, the attorney general, and Charles H. Bronson, the agriculture secretary, and Democrat Alex Sink, the chief financial officer -- make up the Florida Board of Executive Clemency, which has responsibility for restoring civil rights to ex-convicts. To change clemency procedures, Crist needed the support of at least two of these members. Sink favored restoring felons' rights, but Bronson and McCollum have long been opposed. (McCollum's name may be familiar from his role, while a Republican congressman, in the impeachment of President Clinton.) McCollum was not to be swayed, but Crist courted Bronson, and finally won him over by promising to exempt some felons from automatic restoration of rights. Under the plan, murderers and sex offenders will have to apply to the state board to get back their voting rights, and people who've been ordered to pay restitution to their victims must be fully paid up before they can vote.
(snip/...)http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/04/06/crist/

[DuaneBidoux]

51. This sucks. Felons overwhelmingly vote Republican.