Tehran claims all 15 UK personnel have 'confessed'

[laststeamtrain]

Source: Guardian

All 15 of the British service personnel held in Iran have confessed to having illegally entered the country's waters, an Iranian state-run television channel said today.

The unsourced report was on the Arabic-language channel al-Alam and contained a mix of old and previously unseen footage of the captives.

Iranian media reports said footage of the "confessions" would not be broadcast, following unspecified "positive changes" in Britain's negotiating stance.

Since last week, al-Alam has broadcast footage of four of the 15 captives "confessing".

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2048333,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

1. Amazing how effective waterboarding is!

What's good for the goose... :shrug:

[KansDem]

3. LOL!!! My thought exactly...

I wonder why the words "confess" and "confession" are in quotation marks in this article? (Well, I really don't!) I don't believe I ever saw those quotations around the same words with regard to Iraqis in American custody who were subjected to...what was the term?--oh, yeah..."aggressive interrogation"

I waiting to see how the Bushistas spin this one!

[3waygeek]

56. They've obviously got something better..

it only took them a week to break the Brits, but it took us 5 years to break KSM.

[Turbineguy]

2. Now that they've confessed

they can be sent home, right?

[treestar]

4. Oh, that's such an unfair way to do it when it's them!

On Amurka gets to do that!

[laststeamtrain]

5. Look! She's wearing replicas of his testicles around her neck.

:evilgrin:

[bunkerbuster1]

6. I will be curious to learn how these confessions were coerced.

I suspect it wasn't through torture. (FWIW, yeah, I do think the confessions were coerced--no real reason to believe otherwise, yes?)

[Igel]

8. It may not be coercion.

It may be simple gullibility. That's my take on it. Tell them they were wrong often enough and that if they accept it they might be released, and they'll eventually buy it ... at least for public consumption.

Culturally insensitive post-modern wusses.

[bunkerbuster1]

9. We might be splitting definition hairs here

If you "Tell them they were wrong often enough," it's a kind of coercion, in my book.

[Igel]

41. It's the kind of "coercion" we got in high school algebra.

Keep repeating it, maybe it'll sink it. Our history teacher even threatened us and yelled at us. And yet public education is a Good Thing. Sigh.

But that doesn't amount to torture or anything that I'd usually call coercion. No "forcing" involved; many kids graduated without knowing algebra *or* history. "Debriefing" or "lecturing" is more like it. I could be wrong: perhaps the Brits were yelled at and threatened. But it's a bleached coercion, at best.

Now, having them eat dinner, that's more like coercion. Get led to the right room, possibly with the implicit threat of force; be told to eat or not have a meal until morning, the implicit threat of hunger pangs; etc., etc.

[weezy2736]

15. That's what I thought

And it's kind of sickening that that idea hasn't spread through MSM. Everything is taken to the extreme "they were tortured" way too quickly.

[Marrah_G]

11. If you read the actual letters it is pretty clear.

They were just writing what some Iranian official was telling them to write.

[melm00se]

18. there is one school of thought

when it comes to capture that it is much easier to give them something like this (non-military/non-secret information) rather than get the shit kicked out of you...No one dies/gets killed from what is provided (different say than giving up the location/composition of your unit).

[bunkerbuster1]

19. It might even be SoP for all we know, if captured.

Makes a certain amount of sense. Tell the captors what they want to hear without revealing anything useful. It's not like a POW has a whole lotta negotiating room anyway.

[Ilsa]

26. I know that some US navy/AF personnel go through

SER training, where they are stranded, practice evasion, interrogation, and go through rescue. One friend said he got slapped around alot. The other one told me, "I told them everything they wanted to hear." He had no problem whatsoever cooperating with some American military folk speaking Russian to him.

I suspect the most people believe that captured military people are allowed to say anything they want to in order to keep them out of harm's way.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Didn't look coerced to me.

After all of these years of torturing and coercing people in guantanamo, and abu ghraib, and so on, we've never seen the U.S. release video of prisoners so candidly admitting to being terrorists.

[INDIA]

That's because we don't parade prisoners out for the TV cameras...

Except Saddam. Special case.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. Mmmhmm.

Sure.

[EFerrari]

39. Right. We just torture them in privacy. n/t

[ProudDad]

62. Nope, the U.S. is too chicken shit

They do it in private -- well, usually (Abu Graib)...

[INDIA]

68. Pffft. Lol! n/t

[INDIA]

22. dooooooop n/t

[cali]

29. BWAHAHAHA

Too funny. Particularly in light of the fact that the British sailors captured in 2004 who also "confessed", later stated that they were put through mock executions and shown what they were told would be their graves.

Not to mention that I thought they looked scared as hell, and the absolute fact that it's an inherently coercive situation.

What are you going to do for you follow up routine?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. The 2004 prisoners said they were well treated.

And released after the British government admitted they had crossed into Iranian territory.

"Not to mention that I thought they looked scared as hell, and the absolute fact that it's an inherently coercive situation."

Did the one smiling and laughing look scared to you?

[cali]

36. " subjected to a three-day ordeal that included mock executions"

Chew on that. I mean really, what orifice did you pull this out of:

"The 2004 prisoners said they were well treated."

<snip>

Three years ago, eight British servicemen traveling in small boats up the Shatt al Arab waterway near the Iranian border with Iraq found themselves surrounded by members of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard, arrested and subjected to a three-day ordeal that included mock executions and a visit to what they thought would be their graves. After a few days, they were released.
==================================================================



http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-brits25mar25,1,2114727.story?coll=la-news-a_section&ctrack=1&cset=true

Still want to claim that they were well treated?

Not that you'll provide any evidence. You seem to think your lofty pronouncements are enough.

Word: You've been called on your bullshit.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. According to the second hand account...

from somebody who wasn't there.

However, a person who was there said they were treated "fairly well."

"One of the 2004 detainees, Marine Cpl. Christopher Monan, said his group was traveling in three small boats from the Iraqi port of Umm al Qasr to Basra...

Monan said the captives were "treated fairly well," and were subjected to no physical abuse."

Did you even read your own link?

[Dave From Canada]

50. Why do you insist on defending the government of Iran?

Try and spin this too...

Canadian journalist 'beaten to death'

Iran has acknowledged that a Canadian-Iranian photojournalist was beaten to death after her arrest outside a prison in Tehran.

Vice President Ali Abtahi said Zahra Kazemi died "of a brain haemorrhage resulting from beatings".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3070895.stm

[ShortnFiery]

51. I think that we (USA and UK) have beaten prisoners to death in Iraq.

It's not a matter of "taking sides."

YES! I love AMERICA but I'm not so blinded by this love -> NOT to realize that our warmongering leaders lie to US (the people) often. Does "Gulf of Tonkin" ring a bell?

No, we *all* have the capacity for cruelty and terrorism toward "the other."

Don't let the ultra wealthy and political elites whip us into another war.

Please remember that "The People" of these nations love their children as much as you and me. IMO, if we truly love our children, we will stay *somewhat objective* and not allow Dear Leader, et. al., whip us up into a nationalistic frenzy in order to rank Iranians as "less than human."

[Dave From Canada]

55. But I'm not arguing that the USA and UK treat prisoners well.

[sanskritwarrior]

59. Dude you are the best

my most favorite DU poster........

By all means those Iranians would do nothing to prisoners in their care. I mean they treat adulterous women and homosexuals so well.....................:sarcasm:

I said it before, I'll say it again, the contortions a lot of DUers will go into with regards to their ethics to give the Chimperor a black eye is remarkable and sad at the same time......

[Truthiness Inspector]

7. Now that they've "confessed"

It's on to the trials, where they'll all be found "guilty." The only question is what punishment will be meted out...

[Marrah_G]

10. Oh I know, I know!

They could hang the men from a crane and they could stone the woman to death because not only did she trespass, but she trespassed while not dressing like a proper, virteous woman.

[ShortnFiery]

30. The Iranians are NOT savages like you enjoy stereotyping them as ...

but they are calculated. I honestly believe that the signs indicate that the present UK captives are being treated humanely.

IMO, after Abu Graib and GITMO, we, the ugly Americans Torturers, have no right to show self-righteous indignation. Not after what those soldiers did IN OUR NAME. :( Until GITMO is closed, we should continue pray and show compassion for these prisoners, but we have NO right to judge ANY nation as more barbaric as our own. ESPECIALLY where it concerns Prisoners of War. :thumbsdown:

[cali]

32. Our government certainly has

no moral ground to stand on after the atrocities that its committed, both in Iraq and at Gitmo.

I however, am NOT bushco, and I, as an idividual, have every right to speak out against wrongs wherever they're being perpetrated.

[ShortnFiery]

45. Again, I wasn't addressing you.

You have this bad habit of attacking my comments no matter what thread I choose to post within. It's distasteful as well as unproductive.

[sanskritwarrior]

60. No they just hang homosexuals and

stone adulterers........very civilized......... :sarcasm:

I have every right to judge Iran based on these actions, just like I have ever right to judge America for our crimes in Iraq.


http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=8962 <----Gay rights magazine

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0638,hentoff,74473,6.html


I just want it known, I am in no way attacking your post, you don't get to post what you want without someone challenging what you say. I am just using sarcasm to prove that Iran is just as bad or worse than us in regards to prisioners..........Just my .02 cents. I would ask you to please put me on ignore as I am not in violation of any rule by providing a link to challenge your assertion that Iran is not capable of savagery.

[hogwyld]

12. My thoughts exactly

They've probably set up a special beheading place where the infidel blood won't contaminate anything pure. This of course after the fair and speedy trial.

[cali]

13. Somehow, I just don't see them going as far as

trials. But who knows?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Amused Musings]

16. I do not think that is really called for,

What does the Danish cartoons have to do with this? How does their religion affect this situation? Calling them that is pretty poor taste, no?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. I think he's trying to say...

all muslims are terrorists.

[bunkerbuster1]

20. What a novel school of thought.

I heer Libruls hate Merka too!

[TexasLawyer]

24. this is way less convincing than if only a few "confessed"

When you've got soldiers on a boat, it is likely that only a few-- the person or persons doing the actual navigation-- are going to be fully aware of exactly where the boat is at any given time.

But if you put a gun in all our faces and demand that we tell you we were in Iranian waters, well... yes, uh huh, we were all in Iranian waters.

That's my totally uninformed theory, anyway.

[rgbecker]

25. So let me get this straight...

Everyone on DU thinks the British didn't actually go into Iranian waters and thus the statements by the sailors were actually untrue and in fact forced by the Iranian captors? And they think this because the British Government has reported that the British were in fact in Iraqi waters (where they belonged?). And this is the same British Government that assured George Bush that the Iraqis were looking to buy Yellowcake Uranium from Niger? No possibility that the sailors knew they were in Iranian waters and now having been caught thought it wise to own up to it, figuring what the hell, they were just doing as ordered? Am I missing something?

[ShortnFiery]

28. Exactly! Like one woman right winger said on CSPAN's WJ this morning,

"The British have the GPS!"

Well damn, I guess since the British seemingly own everything GPS :wtf: then it's a foregone conclusion that all their public statements are TRUE. :eyes:

Come out of blind nationalism and into the light of objective reason, PLEASE, dear DUers? Remember that our governments (USA and UK) have lied to us several times before. Tell me why we should believe them NOW? Because the British say so? No, that doesn't pass the smell test with me. :(

Beyond all the above, I believe that the Iranians are KEEPING the UK Sailors and Marines for insurance purposes. Think about the following please: The USA is now sending it's FIFTH (5x) Carrier out to *supposedly* relieve another. If you were a member of the Iranian leadership, wouldn't you be a tad bit nervous ... on edge (understated)?

As long as the Iranians hold these UK people, Dimson would have *the world* condemn him if he dares to bomb Iran's suspected nuclear sites.

IMO, the Iranians would be IDIOTS to release them now.

My heart goes out to every captive and their family. I know they are stressed out beyond belief. However, it is ALSO in Iran's best interest to treat these prisoners humanely. After all, they are their ONLY insurance to prevent Our Idiot King from going off and "mini nuclear" bombing the shit out of another sovereign country. :shrug: May these young prisoners find the strength to persevere and may the Iranians not hold them responsible for the utter incompetence of their leaders.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. So you say they're hostages, then? (n/t)

[ShortnFiery]

48. Does it really matter what they are called? Take one less Empiric moment

and consider the *tension* that the Iranian government is under. Remember that we are sending our FIFTH carrier to the Persian Gulf and pResident Bush is presently all pumped up into his hyped-up "I'm a goin' to war" mood state as HE conducts HIS news conference to a submissive press corps.

I'm not advocating taking sides, merely taking a moment to UNDERSTAND exactly why Iran is behaving as it is. I dare say, if we were in the same circumstance as a country, we would behave in a very similar manner.

Do NOT let your unwarranted fears push you into advocate a bombing of Iran. It is wrong and we all know it to be the worst response possible at this point in our history.

[paulk]

34. but, why should we believe the Iranians?

Is it blind nationalism to question their veracity, especially since the first coordinates the Iranians gave put the boat outside of Iranian waters?

[ShortnFiery]

47. I'm not saying that we should believe the Iranians either, BUT to take a moment

and UNDERSTAND why they are *on edge.*

Don't let our warmongering leaders turn the Iranians into "savages" because their culture and practices are different from our own. REMEMBER we regularly chopped of head and displayed them in the town square in Paris, before The Revolution.

When push comes to shove, even us NON brown or black people can be outright savages. :shrug:

[cali]

37. LOL!

Your heart goes out to each and every captive, and yet you support the Iranians holding these people. Man, I'm pretty sure what their families would have to say to you.

Disgusting, clueless and absolutely in character.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[ShortnFiery]

46. Cali, your MO is well known here - your posts are often crass. Plus I wasn't supporting the Iranians

but OBJECTIVELY I was asserting that they have a right to be concerned.

If you were not so obsessed with pumping up your own personal ego with constant and consistent attacks on my (and other's) posts, you would not wrap yourself in the flag and tout BLIND nationalism.

I feel sorry that you have this incessant need to attack the messenger instead of address the issues. How very sad to have to prop oneself up by stepping all over others. :shrug:

[ProudDad]

66. I read shortnfiery's posts and I didn't see

any "support <for> the Iranians holding these people"...

Where did you dream that up?

I think Short displayed a hell of a lot of restraint against you and your allies' invective...

[humbled_opinion]

52. Your right, I wont be convinced that they mean us harm

Until they actually come here and kill us. Then we of course will have the moral high ground....

LOL...

[ShortnFiery]

65. Spoken like far too many. Newsflash: They don't want to live here.

But they sure as shit would like us to consider standing down our FIVE carrier groups in the Persian Gulf Area. To say that the presence of this MASSIVE FIREPOWER is a cause for concern is a profound understatement.

I am NOT condoning the Iranian government but I'm also wise enough to make an attempt to UNDERSTAND what is going through their minds at the highest leadership level. :shrug:

[Truthiness Inspector]

67. Uh....

Many Iranians do live here in the US, in Europe, etc. How many people from other countries flock to Iran? I know many Iranians, and they are good, decent people (the ones I know). The issue here is the Iranian gov't. I don't know any Iranians who like their gov't, hence, why they are here or in other countries BESIDES Iran.

[EFerrari]

40. I think you've summed it up very well. And, welcome to DU. n/t

[sanskritwarrior]

61. I don't think the Brits went into Iranian waters

........I think the Iranians used non physical coercion techniques to get the confessions.......I also believe the Brits lied in the past about the road to war on Iraq. I think Tony bliar <---- (Freudian slip that I will not correct) lied on purpose to get the UK into the war.

However given my personal experience in Iraq concerning Iran as well as my professional knowledge of Iran I will never trust Iran over a Western country. sorry.......

[ProudDad]

64. SPOT ON! Some here at DU have that knee-jerk reaction n/t

[Eugene]

27. Iran, Britain Back Away From Tough Words

Source: Associated Press

Iran, Britain Back Away From Tough Words

Monday April 2, 2007 9:16 PM

AP Photo LON811

By NASSER KARIMI and ROBERT H. REID

Associated Press Writers

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iran and Britain signaled possible movement toward ending the
standoff over 15 detained British sailors Monday, with Tehran promising to stop
airing video confessions and London saying it's willing to discuss ways to avoid
boundary confusion in the Persian Gulf.

The quieter tone from both capitals raised hopes the 11-day standoff might be solved
soon. But optimistic signs emerged before, only to be followed by a hardening of
positions and tough rhetoric.

-snip-

Larijani also urged Britain to guarantee “that such violation will not be repeated,” but
avoided repeating Tehran's demand for an apology. British leaders have insisted they
have nothing to apologize for.

The comments suggested the sides were seeking a face-facing formula in which each
could argue its interests were upheld while the captives could go free. Under such a
formula, Iran could claim Britain tacitly acknowledged the border area is in dispute,
and Britain could maintain it never apologized.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6527628,00.html

[Disturbed]

31. How is anyone to know whether these Brits were in Iran's

territory or not? I wish Busholini would stay out of this dispute. He can only make thing worse. Anything that he is involved in turns to shit.

[ManiacJoe]

57. Given all the military ships and recon aircraft

in the area, the US and English governments know exactly where every ship and plane was at the time.

Who wants to admit to what is another story.

[Orsino]

42. Of course. First claim victory, then retreat...

...as we will eventually have to do in Iraq.

[Doctor_J]

43. They probably confessed to the Lindbergh kidnapping to get off the waterboard

:eyes:

[stormymonday]

44. The Iranians know the media in the west wet their pants at the thought of a 'hostage' crisis

since it gives them a chance to fill endless column inches in the papers and pad out hours of news TV. Yet this same press barely gives more than a passing mention to the civilian and military casualties that occur on a daily basis in Iraq. Here in the UK the media have spent far more time condemning the fact leading seaman Faye Turney is forced to wear a fucking Hijab by her captors than reporting the deaths of two British soldiers in Basra over the week end. Obviously they made the mistake of pegging it without providing a suitable photo opportunity.

[ShortnFiery]

49. No, as long as they keep the prisoners, our Idiot King will not bomb their country. n/t

[gorbal]

53. I will believe they were treated well if the are released and say the same thing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqWeNAopFa0

If they are not released I won't believe it.

Isn't capturing british troops a gift to the Bush administration and their desire to "liberate" Iran?

[ShortnFiery]

54. No, because the UK will not give "a go" to mini-nuke Iran now that THEIR Sailors are being held.

The hostages are presently serving as insurance policiy for Iran while the USA is orchestrating FIVE (5) Carrier groups in The Persian Gulf area. Does anyone doubt that The Unitary Executive is ready to mini-nuke their country's suspected nuclear sites at a moment's notice with all this naval hardware in place?

Even Dear Leader KNOWS that if he goes off half-cocked and bombs Iran, the entire World Community will damn the USA. He can NOT bomb Iran without the UK's approval now. I sincerely doubt even his "lap dog" Tony Blair will turn his back on the UK people at this time. The consequences would be devastatingly negative. A true disaster for both the UK and USA. An invitation to "turn on" all the sleeper cells around the world and let them loose on our two countries. :scared:

As long as these Sailors and Marines are held captive, Dimson would be a MADMAN to bomb Iran. That's why they are being held and, IMO, will continue to be held until we stand down a couple of Carrier Groups in that area.

[laststeamtrain]

58. How I know Blair faked Iran map

How I know Blair faked Iran map
By CRAIG MURRAY, Former Ambassador to Uzbekistan and Head of the Foreign Office's Maritime Section
Last updated at 11:44am on 1st April 2007


Like most senior Royal Navy officers, Commodore Nick Lambert has great reserves of professional expertise and common sense. The Coalition task force commander was aboard HMS Cornwall when 15 Royal Navy personnel serving on the frigate were seized at gunpoint by Iranian forces on March 23.

<snip>

But what about the map the Ministry of Defence produced on Tuesday, with territorial boundaries set out by a clear red line, and the co-ordinates of the incident marked in relation to it?

I have news for you. Those boundaries are fake. They were drawn up by the MoD. They are not agreed or recognised by any international authority.

To put it at its most charitable, they are a potential boundary. It is accepted practice, where no boundary exists, to work by a rule-of-thumb idea of where a boundary, based on a median line between the two coasts, might be.

But to elevate that to a hard and fast boundary, and then base a major international incident on being a few hundred yards one side or the other, is out of order.

<snip>

But the No10 spin doctors stepped in, seeing a propaganda opportunity to portray Blair as fighting evil Iranians.

<more>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/newscomment.html?in_article_id=445896&in_page_id=1787

[ProudDad]

63. Does anyone here remember Gulf of Tonkin,

The Maine, Wounded Knee, etc. etc.

The "West" has a long history of engineering provocations to get the war they want started.

Did it occur to anyone here that the Brits were "testing" the Iranians just as the 'Maddox' and the 'Turner Joy' were doing in the Tonkin Gulf and they got caught?


A pox on ALL the houses that are fucking over the people of the middle east... They're all wrong!