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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 11:50 PM
Original message
Clark, Bush* Campaigns in Spat Over Europe Trip
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Gen. Wesley Clark (news - web sites)'s spokesman on Friday criticized as "bizarre" a fund-raising pitch for President Bush (news - web sites) that seemed to question a visit by Clark to Europe, where he testified against ex-Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic (news - web sites).

The e-mail letter, sent by Bush reelection campaign manager Ken Mehlman and dated on Thursday, accuses Democratic presidential candidates of "raising foreign cash to attack our president."

It goes on to say, "Wesley Clark, who was in Europe when Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) was captured, criticized the president this week and said that rather than going after Saddam, he would have let the United Nations (news - web sites) continue to seek the dictator's cooperation."

Bennett said the Clark campaign considered the reference to Clark being in Europe as a sideswipe against Bush's potential opponent. "We don't know why the Bush allies would question Gen. Clark's participation in a trial against a murderous despot," Clark spokesman Matt Bennett told Reuters.

more…
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&e=3&u=/nm/20031219/pl_nm/politics_bush_clark_dc
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. "raising foriegn cash to attack our president"? that's more than low
it shouts xenophobia. And by implication some sinister intention on Clark's part. This is going to be one ugly election. Hang in there folks!
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ipaul Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. Foreign Cash should be banned
I firmly believe that no candidate should use foreign money for campaigns. It kind of spoils the process.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. I agree . . .
. . .but I also have HUGE PROBLEM with US tax dollars being given to Haliburton as part of a no bid contract that then get turned around as campaign donations to Bush and Co.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. As far as I know, it is banned...
from all I have read only US citizens and permanent residents can donate to a campaign. I am assuming that is the same here in Canada, it only makes sense.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. I can see why bush was concerned about Clark at the trial
After all they have done to undermine international law, they didn't need a four star general, and war hero lending legitimacy to a war crimes tribunal.
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. This so called "war crimes tribunal" is a joke...
Bush is just using his position. Clark knows very well that if Bush would open his mouth or make the "war crimes tribunal" as transparent as it should be, Clark would be revealed as the war criminal, he is.
Bush AND Clark are responsible that the trial is not open to the public and the Bush Administration knows, that Clark has to depend on them.
More and more, since two years, this whole trial becomes a cynical joke.

"Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - Milosevic trial is not open to the public today. Continuation of Wesley Clarke's testimony.

Monday, December 15, 2003 - Milosevic trial is not open to the public today. Testimony of Wesley Clarke.

Thursday, December 11, 2003 - no trial scheduled today

Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - trial in two segments 09:00 - 13:45 Note: first segment not time coded

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - trial cancelled today

Friday, December 5, 2003 - no Milosevic trial scheduled. Galic judgement 10:00 - 11:00

Thursday, December 4, 2003 - no video available yet

Wednesday, December 3, 2003 - 09:00 - 13:45 Note: segment not time coded"

http://hague.bard.edu/video.html





"Referring to the letter, Bennett said, "That's bizarre, given that the Bush administration actively encouraged Clark to participate in the prosecution of Slobodan Milosevic."

To me, it occurs, this is just a dirty game, played by two war criminals against one another. I couldn't care less, if Bush or Clark becomes the next president of the USA.

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Uh Dirk...
You're light years ahead of us. Can you come back in 5-10 years when we'll all be wringing our hands saying "but we didn't know"?

By then all the Yugoslavia war apologists will have long since disappeared.
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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. And Tin? Buh Bye!
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
23. Ya mean, apologists like Samantha Power?

http://Blog.forclark.com/story/2003/11/28/81836/095

She details his efforts in behalf of the Dayton Peace Accords and his brilliant command of NATO forces in Kosovo. Her chapter on Kosovo ends, "The man who probably contributed more than any other individual to Milosvevic's battlefield defeat was General Wesley Clark. The NATO bombing campaign succeeded in removing brutal Serb police units from Kosovo, in ensuring the return on 1.3 million Kosovo Albanians, and in securing for Albanians the right of self-governance
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Devils Advocate NZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. Yes morons like her...
Has she even once mentioned the killings of Serbs that are going on to this very day? Or the fact that the KLA was supported by the US and Osama Bin Laden?

Of course, it's no surprise that Bin Laden and the CIA would work together, although I don't see how Clark's command was "brilliant".

In fact, Clark ordered his air forces to fly so high that they couldn't tell the difference between a convoy of Albanian refugees and Serbian tanks. I'm sure those dead Albanians think Clark's leadership was "brilliant".

As for Serbian tanks, Clark managed to destroy 14. That's right 14! (source) Brilliant! 3000 missions, of which 2000 dropped bombs, and only 14 tanks destroyed! Now there is a brilliant war plan! And how did the Serbs manage to receive so few casualties? By using decoys! That's right, that old WWII trick of slapping together canvas and wood to make something that look kind of like a tank, especially to aircraft flying so high that pilots need binoculars to even SEE them!

So of course Clark gets to say "no US military losses", to bad he also has to say very few Serbian military losses and a whole bunch of Serbian and Albanian civillian losses! But of course only the first number counts, right?
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I don't get your point?
at all
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. My point might be somehow...
"protect(ed) against inadvertent disclosure of sensitive US government information," according to a US embassy spokeswoman.
What kind of "sensitive US government information" might be there?
The public isn't allowed to watch and read, what peace-fighter Clark, the freedom and peace fighter, who prevented a new Ausschwitz - sorry for my sarcasm - is saying in a direct confrontation with Milosovic, who has none of the possibilities or rights, Clark has, not even the possibilities to ask questions, you would expect from such a court????


http://www.antiwar.com/malic/m-col.html

If you have the time and if you are really interested, watch all those videos. They are offically released by the Hague Tribunal, as questionable as this whole thing might be.
I follow this tribunal for years now with breaks, I did read the the transcripts of about at least 15 sessions, and this whole thing stinks to heaven. This is nothing but victory justice. Read the transcripts!
Hi from Germany,
Dirk
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Thank you,
I simply just asked for hearing, what Clark has to say. But if you are not interested in what Clark has to say, why should you listen to me.
Welcome to the free world...
Dirk
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Here, Dirk, from the PUBLISHED transcript, your buddy's own words:
Edited on Sat Dec-20-03 04:48 AM by robbedvoter
http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/031215ED.htm


A. We achieved agreement and then it remained to type up the

25 agreement and get it signed, and so this must have been 10.30, 11:00 in



Page 30396

1 the morning or something, and President Milosevic was musing

2 philosophically about this. And he turned to me and said, "General

3 Clark," he said, "We know how to handle these murderers, these rapists,

4 these criminals." He said, "We've done this before." I said, "Well,

5 when?" He said, "In Drenica in 1946." And I said, "What did you do?" He

6 said, "We killed them." He said, "We killed them all."

7 I was stunned at the vehemence with which he spoke, and I just

8 looked at him. General Naumann looked at him, as I recall, and Milosevic

9 then said -- then he qualified his statement. He said, "Of course we did

10 not do it all at one. It took some time."
I didn't get ti the next days PUBLISHED transcript yet, but you can
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Devils Advocate NZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. Wow!
First of all that is what Clark CLAIMS Milosevic said. He also claimed the KLA weren't terrorists (even though the US State Dept said they were in 1998 AND said they were receiving assistance from Osama Bin Laden). He also claimed after the war to have destroyed over a hundred Serb tanks, when he knew the real number was 14!

Clark says a lot of things that are utter bullshit.

Secondly, even if Milosevic DID say something similar to what Clark claimed, it is clear from the transcript that Milosevic was refering to Nazi collaborating Albanians after WWII - you know, those Albanians that joined the SS to help round up Jews and Gypsies and Serbs for extermination...

Of course Clark would be horrified to hear that Nazis were ruthlessly hunted after the war - after all he was allied to terrorists during his own war, so it's not like he couldn't relate to the poor Albanian SS units...

But here is the real kicker: During cross examination, Milosevic questioned Clark as to whether he had claimed during one of their meetings to have been friends with Clinton and that he consulted with him regularly. Clark denied it most strenuously.

Later in the cross, Milosevic asked about Shelton's statements, and asked why he had been fired from SACEUR. Clark immediately began reading testimonial after testimonial about how great he was and how he was such a genius. Funny that Clark had all these testimonials prepared in advance - you'd think that the prosecution had been listening in on Milosevic's preperations to find out what he was going to ask, but they wouldn't do that would they? Anyhow after reading all these testimonials he said:

"I will also, I believe, have additional material that will be submitted for the record from others in the United States who may have been referred to here."

So what do you think he could be refering to here? Could it be he had pre-planned to have Clinton send his letter to the prosecutors backing him up? Does that seem like he has nothing to do with Clinton, or a passing relationship? Not to mention that Clark claims Clinton encouraged him to run for president, and also claims to call Clinton "just to say hello".

Nope, he hardly knows the guy!

Clark is a perjurer.
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treepig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. more on the role of "terrorists" in the bosnian war . . .
The Bosnian war taught Islamic terrorists to operate abroad
For all the millions of words written about al-Qa’eda since the 9/11 attacks two years ago, one phenomenon is consistently overlooked — the role of the Bosnian war in transforming the Mujahideen of the 1980s into the roving Islamic terrorists of today.


Yet America’s role in backing the Mujahideen a second time in the early and mid-1990s is seldom mentioned — largely because very few people know about it, and those who do find it prudent to pretend that it never happened. Following the Russian withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1989 and the collapse of their puppet regime in 1992, the Afghan Mujahideen became less important to the United States; many Arabs, in the words of the journalist James Buchan, were left stranded in Afghanistan ‘with a taste for fighting but no cause’. It was not long before some were provided with a new cause. From 1992 to 1995, the Pentagon assisted with the movement of thousands of Mujahideen and other Islamic elements from Central Asia into Europe, to fight alongside Bosnian Muslims against the Serbs.

The Bosnia venture appears to have been very important to the rise of Mujahideen forces, to the emergence of today’s cross-border Islamic terrorists who think nothing of moving from state to state in the search of outlets for their jihadist mission. In moving to Bosnia, Islamic fighters were transported from the ghettos of Afghanistan and the Middle East into Europe; from an outdated battleground of the Cold War to the major world conflict of the day; from being yesterday’s men to fighting alongside the West’s favoured side in the clash of the Balkans. If Western intervention in Afghanistan created the Mujahideen, Western intervention in Bosnia appears to have globalised it.

Many writers and reporters have traced al-Qa’eda and other terror groups’ origins back to the Afghan war of 1979­1992, that last gasp of the Cold War when US-backed Mujahideen forces fought against the invading Soviet army. It is well documented that America played a major role in creating and sustaining the Mujahideen, which included Osama bin Laden’s Office of Services set up to recruit volunteers from overseas. Between 1985 and 1992, US officials estimate that 12,500 foreign fighters were trained in bomb-making, sabotage and guerrilla warfare tactics in Afghan camps that the CIA helped to set up.

The Pentagon’s secret alliance with Islamic elements allowed Mujahideen fighters to be ‘flown in’, though they were initially reserved as shock troops for particularly hazardous operations against Serb forces. According to a report in the Los Angeles Times in October 2001, from 1992 as many as 4,000 volunteers from the Middle East, North Africa and Europe, ‘known as the Mujahideen’, arrived in Bosnia to fight with the Muslims. Richard Holbrooke, America’s former chief Balkans peace negotiator, has said that the Bosnian Muslims ‘wouldn’t have survived’ without the help of the Mujahideen, though he later admitted that the arrival of the Mujahideen was a ‘pact with the devil’ from which Bosnia is still recovering.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ONE309A.html

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Party of the People Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Outstanding article!
Thanks.
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #31
48. Just judging from the transcripts I did read...
whenever Milosovic is mentioning the KLA, they stop him. Sometimes, they even simply cut off his microphone. One of Milosovic's more funny reactins was to ask: "Is this just an ordinary restricted interrogation or a restricted restricted interrogation?"

Dirk
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
45. Next day:
Hello Robbedvoter,
here's a part of Milosovics reply the next day:
(http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/031216ED.htm)

17 MR. MILOSEVIC:

18 Q. All right, General. Since this has to do with your statement,

19 among other things -- I mean, you are really mocking the truth and logic

20 here. You say in paragraph 28: "We know how to handle these Albanians,

21 these murderers, these rapists, these killers of their own kind. We have

22 taken care of them before." And you talk about 1946.

23 General, obviously you do not know history, the history of the

24 Second World War. Do you know that in this context I did not speak to you

25 about this at all? I'm going to remind you. I was saying that many

Page 30504

1 members of Hitler's army who were Albanians and who had been crushed spent

2 all of two years after the war in the mountains of Kosovo, notably in

3 Drenica, and they were killing people, and that the Yugoslav army spent

4 all of two years with them in Kosovo finishing off the Second World War.

5 They were members of Hitler's units that remained in the hills up there,

6 and the war went on for two more years over there in Kosovo. Truth to

7 tell, it was a low-intensity conflict.

8 So it is completely false that we surrounded them in 1946 and

9 killed all of them. This went on for two years.

10 JUDGE MAY: One thing at a time. What is it you're suggesting you

11 said to the general, so that we can understand it?

12 THE ACCUSED: I said to the general that

13 particularly in Drenica, the former members of Hitler's units were focused

14 there and that the war went on for another two years with these ballists.

15 They were even part of the SS units, Hitler's SS units. And these

16 bandits --
17 JUDGE MAY: Just a moment. Let's deal with this. General,

18 perhaps you could deal with that, if you would. The accused is suggesting

19 that what he said was that the war went on for another two years

20 apparently with these units, members of Hitler's units, part of the SS, in

21 Drenica, I understand. Perhaps you could help us. Did he say anything

22 like that?

23 THE WITNESS: Well, let me put this in context and then go to the

24 specifics, if I might, Your Honour. (...)"

Dirk




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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
46. Just a bit more of Milosovic's answer:
16 Q. That, General, is simply not true. And secondly, when you made
17 that comparison with reference to what was done before, in 1946 I was five
18 years old. I couldn't have spoken in the first person plural.
19 And secondly, General, you certainly must know that it was the
20 German intelligence service, in fact, that worked on the formation of
21 terrorist groups and the equipping of the KLA. As NATO commander, you
22 must have had such intelligence information.
23 JUDGE MAY: This is totally irrelevant. Whether you were five
24 years old or not is not the point. The point is that this is exactly what
25 is alleged that you said. Now, what we make of it will be a matter for
Page 30509

1 the Trial Chamber, and whether we accept the evidence is a matter for the
2 Trial Chamber, but you must confine your examination to that conversation.
3 THE ACCUSED: I was talking about the traditional
4 commitment of certain groups over there in that area in favour of
5 terrorism, looting --

6 JUDGE MAY: No, we're not going to go into this. You know that
7 your examination is limited. Now, have you any other questions? You've
8 got 20 minutes on the current count, or less. Have you got any more,
9 anything else you want to ask the general about?
10 THE ACCUSED: You told me you would give me some
11 extra time, Mr. May. You said you would give me some additional time so
12 please don't say I've only got another 20 minutes.


http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/031216ED.htm

Dirk
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colorado_ufo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Dirk, I fully endorse your right to free speech and opinion.
However, we have a big job to do: reclaim our country for its citizens. There is only so much time I have for reading, therefore I will get to try out the "ignore" facility for the first time.
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
47. I can live with that...
as long as you don't claim, I have WMD's; and as long as Mr. Clark "reclaims" only the US citizens and stays away from reclaiming me....
Dirk
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. May I suggest this site for transcripts (videos released too by now)
http://www.un.org/icty/
let me see if I get it: you are saying that the Hague tribunal is not valid because Bushco decided that his opponent can get too much publicity out of this and ordered the proceedings secret? So, you are maligning Clark because Rove wants him silenced and Hague because...your favorite genocidal maniac is not celebrated as he should? And we at DU shoulf be interested in your bizzare views because?
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Was anything actually edited out by the Americans?
I can't see an obvious point in the transcripts, but there's quite a lot of it, and I've only just scanned it quickly.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. "Bush AND Clark are responsible that the trial is not open to the public"
As someone interested in truth, I would like to see the facts in detail on which you base your allegation that Clark is responsible for the trial not being open to the public.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. " I couldn't care less,"
If you couldn't care less why are you here? It appears like you just want to slander a Democrat and pretend you are doing someone a service. The only service you are doing is to Bush* and I do care less.
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Turley Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
38. Ein Paar Fragen
1) Do you believe that hundreds or thousands of Bosnian Muslims were killed in or around Srebenica by Serbian forces?

2) If the answer to (1) is yes, do you believe Milosevic had operational control of those forces and/or was responsible for the order to execute the mission?

And while I'm at it 3) What responsibility does the SPD/Green Gov't bear for our actions in the Balkans since, if memory serves me, they assisted us in the endeavor? AND, at exactly what altitude were German aircraft flying during the mission?

Which of course leads to 4) Just who the fuck are you calling a war criminal?

Gruß aus Trebur

Dan
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. Ein paar Antworten
1) As it turns out, the reasons for that invasion were as fabricated as were the reasons for Bush's invasion of Iraq. For weeks, the American and European people were bombarded by warnings about mass graves containing tens of thousands of bodies.
There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and there were no mass graves holding tens of thousands of bodies ever found in Kosovo.

You speak of hundreds or thousands of Bosnian Muslims. Is this a slip of the pen and you mean hundreds of(!) thousands???

2) I have doubts about how much control Milosovic had. I have read one transript of the Hague (February and March 2002), where Milosovic could show about 200 directives from his administration to immediately stop atrocities against Bosnian Muslims, commited by single police forces.

Milosovic could name a lot of directives of his administration to the security forces in Kosovo, to not offend civilians and to not shoot at UCK-fighers, if civilians could be involved in the fights.
Milosovic could name about 500 cases, where legal action was undertaken against people, who didn't follow this priscriptions. If you have the time, watch these, they are openly availabe at the hague-webpage.


3) I think our german government was as responsible for that war as the US-government, if not more. Germany is highly interested in that region.
Our intelligence fabricated the main hoax, the so-called "Hufeisenplan" ("Potkova"), stating that the german intelligence had found out that Milosovic had plans to systematically drive away the Kosovo-Albanians, before the bombings started! This was the main argument for the war here in Germany. It was completely nonsense and fabricated. They even used the word Potkova, which is the kroation word for "Hufeisen" (horseshoe), the serbian word is "Potkovica". Today there are no doubts that this plan did never exist. Our former defense-minister had to admit this. I don't know anyone, who would still state that this plan really existed.

4) Wesley Clark, Joseph Fischer, Bill Clinton, Gerhard Schröder, Rudolf Scharping, to name just a few.

One of the best available critical documentations about the trial against Milosovic is a documentation, shown at the end of september this year: "De Zaak Milosevic" from Jos de Putter und Germinal Civikov shown at the dutch TV-station VPRO.

If you understand german, a very good report about the hague trial with detailed information about Milosovic's interrogation by one of the authors of the film can be found here: http://www.novo-magazin.de/66/novo6631.htm

Liebe Grüße,
Dirk





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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. If this is true something needs to be done to the Bush campaign
They can't be allowed to make these outrageous accusations without punishment. This is low down and dirty. It is a disgusting way to carry out a campaign...the Clark campaign needs to take this crap the pukes are putting out and corner those puny cowards and cram it right down their fucking mouths...
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Better stop this dog
Edited on Sat Dec-20-03 12:59 AM by candy331
in the hunt now. Democrats better go on the offensive now if they have any hope of exposing and countering this crap. Clark with his military record should speak out now with a "big stick".
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Exactly it's almost like the Bush campaign is testing the waters
to see how blatantly outrageous they can get. That swipe at Clark for being in Europe when Saddam was captured was seriously low. He was over there doing his duty, and he was civil about the WH keeping his testimony from being broadcast...

To take that cheap shot is just plain underhanded and wrong...they can't be allowed to get away with it...
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Why not hit the Bushies with the Diebold Challenge?
Why has no candidate argued the real reason why people should vote against the GOP??
Diebold's chief executive Walden O'Dell said he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." <http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0904-10.htm>
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. worse yet, he doesn't seem to understand why that's wrong
we have been taken over by pod people
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tlcandie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Kucinich?
http://www.kucinich.us/issues/e_voting.php

<snip>
Election integrity cannot be assured without openness and transparency. Using electronic voting machines to conduct elections is dangerous to democracy because there is no way of ensuring their accuracy. It is imperative that there be a required voter-verified paper trail for every election so that any errors and irregularities caused by the voting machines can be discovered.

Unfortunately, there are no such requirements for the so-called "Direct Recording Electronic" machines currently being used in many communities and states. With the computer technology in use, there is a constant risk for a program flaw, or worse, tampering with the software which could change votes and thus change the outcome of elections. Without a "voter verified audit trail", meaning a permanent record of each vote that the voter can check to verify that it represents his or her intent, these changes might never be detected!

I am strong supporter and co-sponsor of H.R. 2239, otherwise known as the "Voter Confidence and Increased Accountability Act of 2003". If instated, this bill would:
<snip>
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
14. More Bush lies.
On Paula Zahn Now on CNN, Clark specifically said he would not offer criticism of Bush while on foreign soil. I thought it was a dignified thing to say, though I might not have been as restrained.

I searched for the transcript, but no sign of it on CNN. Go figure!

Of course, I still have the Tivo.

Xenophobic is a good description of George's platform.
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. yeah Clark was nothing but classy about the whole affair
what a bunch of back-stabbers these Bushites are!

I can't believe it's not on CNN's transcript, I remember lots of people in here commenting on him saying he would temper his words agains Bush while in Europe...
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. In all interviews: I am on foreign soil, stand by my views, won't get into
details because I am on foreign soil. Ah, but he was too close to France - and just cuz Chirac kissed Pickles hand it don't make it OK for W's opponents to go near Old Europe...
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Myra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. Wow! What a dazzling display of demagoguery from BushCo.
They constantly outdo themselves.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
26. junior is gettin' sort of testy these days, 'huh?
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
27. Gee, are they borrowing from Lieberman's playbook?
"It goes on to say, "Wesley Clark, who was in Europe when Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) was captured, criticized the president this week and said that rather than going after Saddam, he would have let the United Nations (news - web sites) continue to seek the dictator's cooperation."



That sure sounds familiar.

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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. The wording in this paragragh is designed for a purpose
It is designed to sound like Clark was criticising Bush* while in Europe even though Clark has said numerous times he would not criticise Bush* on foreign soil. Amazing deceptions. They pull all sorts of stuff.
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joanski01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
28. At this point, I now believe
that it was Judy Woodruff's assignment to get Gen. Clark to criticize bush* while on foreign soil. She really tried hard, and there was just such a look of tremendous dissapointment on her face when he wouldn't do it. She tried not once, but twice.

She never even mentions Clark's name on her show, so I was really surprised to see her interview him. Now I know why. Tough shit, Judy.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Damn I hate that skag Woodruff ...
She is one of the most despicable mediawhores.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. "Clark was in Europe when Saddam was captured"
I agree with the Clark campaign, that's just BIZARRE.

Where was Clark supposed to be? Should he have come home? Should he have gone to Iraq? I don't get it.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. They imply that he knew
Edited on Sat Dec-20-03 02:49 PM by DoYouEverWonder
that they had Saddam and should have stayed home? You would think that testifying at the trial of a brutal dictator who praticed ethnic cleansing would be more important than staying home to wait for the capture of another Bu$hCo's puppet?

Does seem that Bu$h & Co are a bit scared of the old general and are a bit desparate in their feeble attempts to discredit him. It is also interesting how the media trys to play him down or ignore him. Makes me want to vote for him even more.
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. I believe he was subpoenaed; he could hardly not go, could he???
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-03 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
39. Er ..uh...umh..uh
Politics, just politics...time for politics...uh..umh..uh
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
49. "I didn't do it, it shows they fear us as they should" - Clark's response
to a supporter's question on the topic yesterday, in Derry, NH
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Did you read Milosivic's answers?
n/t
Dirk
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