Wanna Cut Your Jail Time? Donate A Kidney!

[scavenger]

"There are long-term inmates who would give if they knew a child was dying."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/08/national/main2548860.shtml
----

To bad we don't have any long term politicians that are willing to do the same thing.

[Judi Lynn]

1. It's funny that certain kinds of Americans have been pointing to China, claiming it harvests organs

from its own prisoners, then claiming that proves they are barbarians.

Apparently it ALL works that way when you're a right-winger. Completely different values attach to the same actions when practiced by an American right-wing government.

[DRoseDARs]

4. Erm, kind of a bad comparison don't you think? Here it appears to be voluntary...

...for the claims against China it appears to be involuntary. Fairly important distinction there. :shrug:

[TechBear_Seattle]

6. How voluntary is it, really?

The United States prison system has an extremely bad record of "voluntary" programs that really aren't.

[olddad56]

12. it might startout to be voluntary.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. It is called "blackwhite"

Like so many Newspeak words, this word has two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past, made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the rest, and which is known in Newspeak as doublethink.

...

Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. The Party intellectual knows in which direction his memories must be altered; he therefore knows that he is playing tricks with reality; but by the exercise of doublethink he also satisfies himself that reality is not violated. The process has to be conscious, or it would not be carried out with sufficient precision, but it also has to be unconscious, or it would bring with it a feeling of falsity and hence of guilt. Doublethink lies at the very heart of Ingsoc, since the essential act of the Party is to use conscious deception while retaining the firmness of purpose that goes with complete honesty. To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies -- all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.

-- Emmanuel Goldstein, The Theory and Practice of Oligarchal Collectivism

-- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

[David__77]

15. Exactly.

Furthermore, if anything, these are rogue officials doing these things in China. The central authorities enacted policy against this sort of thing. China is now even debating abolishing the death penalty. When they do so, where will that leave the US? In the company only with Saudi Arabia and Iran as major executors.

[Judi Lynn]

21. Great news about the death penalty status in China. Thanks a lot. n/t

[eyesroll]

2. While I support expanding the organ pool though other means...would this even be legal?

As the article says, federal law prohibits selling organs in exchange for "valuable consideration" -- I'd say six months of freedom is valuable.

Also: This would mean that healthy, able-bodied, HIV-/Hep- inmates would get access to a means of early release that the sick, elderly, HIV+/Hep+, etc. would not. I'm not sure how that would work under equal protection. (We're studying that now and it's quite foggy for me.)

Plus there'd need to be steps taken to avoid coercion.

[scavenger]

7. Why stop there

Our politicians can make anything they want legal . And why stop at early release? We have the drug war that keeps our prisons full. .....2 years in jail or one of your kidneys.

[lumpy]

11. Abysmal idea.

Some court sentencing requires either requiring some sort of rehab or face jail time. In many cases it is a matter of being unable to afford the high cost of rehab or availability of sources, so to jail it is. So this boils all down to a matter of money. The justice system is already fouled up enough without this BLOOD MONEY idea

[eyesroll]

13. I said I support expanding the organ pool through other means--better education,

more voluntary live donors (family members, altruistic strangers), better preservation of cadaver organs, whatever. I'm not a doctor or other expert, so I'm not sure what would be most effective -- but we do need more organs.

I am, however, a law student, so I'm in that know-it-all phase where everything has a legal component I must explore.

I should have made that more clear: I do not support allowing a reduction in prison time for "donating organs." If an inmate wants to donate a kidney to a family member or friend, fine (I don't think the potential recipient's health should depend on whether the compatible, willing donor is incarcerated or not). But that's a different issue altogether.

[crikkett]

16. Aha! maybe if they appoint a proxy

you know, get their niece to ante a kidney so they can get out of jail.

[Megahurtz]

3. Wow That's Sick. n/t

[whistle]

8. How about donating testicles, any time off for that?

[KamaAina]

9. Maybe Cheney could donate his heart

oh, right, never mind. :sarcasm:

Aren't there ways to increase the donor pool without resorting to outright barbarism?!

[0007]

22. I'm sure that Randy 'Duke' Cunningham is thinking about

donating, LOL!

[Donnachaidh]

10. knock knock knock ---

"Can we have your liver?"

"I'm using it right now"

"But you signed your donor card"

This is a VERY bad Python skit, yes? Personally, I think it's a HORRIBLE way to offer any sort of "amnesty".

I*doubt* if you could REALLY prove it *voluntary*. Especially when you have people desperate to get out of jail.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

14. yep.

that skit came to mind immediately.

things have gotten totally surreal . . .

[crikkett]

17. especially in S. Carolina

my cousin told me terrible stories about the cops there.

[MrPrax]

18. Can female prisoners donate their stem cells?

That's discrimination!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You guys kill me...

What a gift -- just in case anyone was running out of ways to cheap shot and annoy Americans about their hypocrisy, the Gods shine.

:patriot:

[hatrack]

19. And if you donate BOTH kidneys, you get to leave right away!

:eyes:

[lebkuchen]

20. Isn't that what they're doing in China?

only not asking for volunteers?