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Juror Explains Libby Verdict: They Felt He Was 'Fall Guy' ("Where is Rove and all these other guys")

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 01:48 PM
Original message
Juror Explains Libby Verdict: They Felt He Was 'Fall Guy' ("Where is Rove and all these other guys")

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003554231

Juror Explains Libby Verdict: They Felt He Was 'Fall Guy'

NEW YORK A spokesman for the jury that convicted "Scooter" Lewis of four counts today of perjury and obstruction of justice today in a federal courtroom told reporters immediately afterward that many felt sympathy for Libby and believed he was only the "fall guy."

Denis Collins said, "We asked ourselves, what is HE doing here? Where is Rove and all these other guys....He was the fall guy."

He said they believed that Vice President Cheney did "ask him to talk to reporters."

He said, "some jurors said at one point, 'We wish we weren't judging Libby...this sucks."

Asked about Vice President Cheney not testifying, he said, "Having Cheney testifying would have been interesting." And when the defense opened the trial by suggesting that Libby was scapegoated by the White House, "I thought we might get to see President Bush here."


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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, wow. This could get good. I can't wait until they hit the morning talk shows. n/t
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm shedding no tears for Libby
Scooter is part of that criminal gang.
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joanmj Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yes--the....
crime gang! No sympathy here....:nopity:
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Remember Watergate, like a leaking faucett, drip, drip, drip, it took forever
And required some real patience. But, every day another detail or two came out.

Drip, drip, drip, like the slow action of water eroding rock, this story will march on to its inevitable conclusion, as did Watergate. What we have to watch out for is a Gerald Ford letting the criminals out to pasture. Would we be here today if Nixon had spent his remaining days in jail?

So, what was Nixon pardoned for, killing the Kennedys? Is that why the had to bug the Dems? Will we ever know?
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. the "Bay of Pigs thing" on the Watergate tapes meant "JFK assassination".
Haldeman came forward and said that.

What gets me is how frightened Nixon is that the whole "Bay of Pigs thing" might get out into the public. He says so over and over.

I suspect Poppy Bush and Tricky Dick had some shady dealings going way back to the days when Prescott was still a US Senator.
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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Prescott recruited Tricky Dick to run for Congress
That's how far Bushco and Nixon go back.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Many of the reporters asked about Cheney, as well
Fitz gave basically a non-answer answer, as he is wont to do in his press conferences. I do hope "more information" comes his way, and the investigation isn't over - could be it already has, and he's just not sharing.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. Libby was there because he chose to be there by doing the crime.
To the extent it's sad, it's sad that people have so much more loyalty to their superiors than to the American People, the system of justice, and the American Way.
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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sympathy for Libby may just blow the top off this scandal
Libby did come off as a very sympathetic character in this Machiavellian melodrama, the pathetic puppet resigned to the fate his masters ensnared him in. I think a lot of people, especially those who may have no idea of who Valerie Plame even was, will have the same reaction as this juror, and may start asking for the first time who is the real criminal here. This may just be the beginning, not the end, of this scandal.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm glad a juror came out & said what everyone is thinking.
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Sunlight breaking thru
the dark clouds. I heard the 'Stars Spangled Banner' in the background as the juror was talking to the reporters. At least BushCo hasn't turned this country in a Banana Republic -- yet, as hard as BushCo is trying.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. Why didn't Fitz INDICT ROVE?
He had him testify 50,000 times. PULL THE TRIGGER.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Heard this on NPR. Rove. Cheney. Etc.
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antonialee839 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. Rove, Cheney and Bush should all be on trial.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Libby made his choice. No sympathy here
Libby's a thug just like the rest

and I'm sure he will be well compensated for his continued service...whether it be in prison or out.

You're not a fall guy when you take one for the team. You're simply the sacrifice everyone knew might have to be made.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. You know, the occasional DUers who dis the American people as "sheeple"
--stupid uninformed sheep, whose brains are fried by TV and can't think for themselves any more--really need to consider this verdict and these jury statements, and other evidence that the American people are actually doing pretty well, under a bombardment of 24/7 rightwing propaganda such as no people has ever been subjected to.

They knew Libby was the "fall guy." But that doesn't excuse what he did. That is a lot for a jury to think through. It might be easy enough for you and me to figure it out. But a jury is a hothouse, receiving a huge and concentrated amount of information--especially in this trial--all at once, and then having to put up with each other, in trying to sort it out. They dealt with the detail very well, from all reports. They were very careful about each of the charges, the evidence, and the "reasonable doubt" precept, and they acquitted on one count, where the evidence was thinnest. But they held him to account for lying and obstruction on all other counts (4 of them), even though it appears to have been the general opinion of the jury that others gave the orders, that Libby was lying to cover for them, and that Libby was/is the designated fall guy.

I'm reminded of something I picked up on, in opinion surveys about the war. Back in Feb. '03, before the invasion, 56% of the American people opposed the Iraq War. (56%! --that would be a landslide in a presidential elections--and probably was.) At the same time, about 50% of the American people believed that Saddam had WMDs and/or had something to do with 9/11. Think about this for a minute. That 56% who opposed the war from the beginning had to include some people who had this disinformation rattling around in their heads. So in addition to the people who knew that Bush was full of shit, from the beginning, there was this segment of the population that wasn't sure, but who decided for themselves, that, if Saddam had WMDs, it was not a serious threat, or if Saddam had something to do with 9/11, it was minor, and neither thing was worth a war. They believed bits of the propaganda, but they didn't trust Bush, and didn't believe he'd made a case for war. They were struggling to make their judgment of things, and some succeeded.

This was during a period when the war propaganda was thickest and most impenetrable. 2002-2003. And I find it very impressive. We were broadsided by a fascist coup, and were drowning in disinformation and warmongering. The best of our news sources became completely unreliable--the NYT being a prime example. The Democratic leadership was in full retreat (--although 156 of them in Congress voted against the IWR--never forget it). They even agreed to electronic voting, run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations (fast-tracked across the country during the 2003-2004 period, with a $3.9 billion boondoggle!). Our own party was bloody useless as our advocates and touchstones. And some portion of the 56% of the American people who opposed the war did so IN SPITE OF the disinformation they had succumbed to.

So, some of this jury of random citizens of Washington DC, who had been weeded out by Libby's attorneys on the question of their dislike of Dick Cheney (any with strong anti-Cheney views were eliminated), believe that Cheney, Rove and others--and possibly Bush--were behind this treasonous act of outing a covert CIA agent and an entire WMD counter-proliferation, deep cover network. If they think Libby is a "fall guy," this obviously implies that they think that crimes were committed (why else have a "fall guy"?), and that others were involved, and it raises the question, who was he a "fall guy" for? And they convicted him anyway, because a National Security adviser, and special adviser to both the VP and the President, should have known better.

This conviction, and the jury's assessment of the case, are a Pandora's Box--in addition to being a credit to the American people. This is what ordinary people, and probably the great majority of Americans, believe. The Vice President committed crimes, and probably the President as well, and probably others in conspiracy with them. And if the outings of this agent and the CIA network were NOT a crime, why the coverup, and why didn't they fess up at the trial, and why don't they fess up now and throw themselves on the mercy of the American people and Congress?
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. "The best of our news sources became completely unreliable ..."
That should be the opening line of any book which outlines the rise and fall of the American "empire."

:thumbsup:
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Right, and I don't look for much coverage of this either.
Tomorrow we will be focusing on Britney's failed rehab, Bobby Brown cutting out on his radio commitment, and whether ANS is still buried.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I disagree with name calling too- but they were a force fed, captive audience.
Edited on Tue Mar-06-07 04:33 PM by Dr Fate
It's likely that at least some of the same jurors would have never taken the time to find this story or evidence or come to this conclusion on their own.
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Jacklyn75 Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
17. K & R! n/t
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