Reid: (CNN) Iraq war 'worst foreign policy mistake' in U.S. history

[BadGimp]

Reid: Iraq war 'worst foreign policy mistake' in U.S. history

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- After months of heated rhetoric slamming President Bush's Iraq policy, the Senate's top Democrat moved into new terrain by declaring the Iraq war a worse blunder than Vietnam.

"This war is a serious situation. It involves the worst foreign policy mistake in the history of this country," Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nevada, told CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer."

"So we should take everything seriously. We find ourselves in a very deep hole and we need to find a way to dig out of it."

Asked whether he considers it a worse blunder than Vietnam, Reid responded, "Yes."

Comparisons to Vietnam are nothing new, but a "worse than" designation from a top lawmaker is.

Sen. Chuck Hagel, a Nebraska Republican who has been one of the war's most outspoken critics, told Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in January that President Bush's plan to send 21,500 more troops to Iraq "represents the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/18/reid.iraq/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
condt..........................................

This is a big step imo, and will it be interesting to see if the meme gets traction among the MSM peeps.

[BlueStateModerate]

1. I'm gonna go with the War of 1812

...but Iraq is up there.

[PittPoliSci]

5. i'm going to agree with you on that one.

vietnam's pretty high up my list too.

[Zhade]

18. Well, this war wasn't a mistake, so it can't qualify for top honors.

NT!

[JohnnyLib2]

2. Give 'em hell, Harry!

Very persistent man, in his low key way.

[sam sarrha]

3. so is Chuck still vocal or did they show him the photo's

[C_U_L8R]

4. I can't think of anything more stupid

than Bush's decision to invade Iraq.

Anyone ?

[Bicoastal]

22. We could have invaded OURSELVES....

...that would have been stupider.

Ah, who am I kidding. We would have greeted us as liberators.

[C_U_L8R]

23. They did... and we did :-)

[theoldman]

6. It will take 10 to 20 years to really see the magnitude of the

mistake.

[0rganism]

9. Yep, we'll only appreciate the magnitude of the blunder after a few years pass

As terrorism and religious extremism continue to increase worldwide and our national credibility atrophies, we'll gradually see why this is a very stupid situation for the vast majority of us who didn't get no-bid contracts. For the war profiteers, on the other hand, it's more of a criminal situation, although even they may find themselves paying a price as events unfold.

[calimary]

16. And by then, our generation and others who survived this will have to

weather MULTITUDES of questions, historians' dissertations, books, op-eds and other punditry, ALL wanting to know WHY WE DID NOTHING TO STOP THIS WAR, OR THIS BASTARD WHO LIED US INTO IT. Granted, we here in DU and elsewhere in the progressive underground have done a shitload to try to stop this war, mostly ignored, laughed at, lambasted as traitorous, or kicked over into the corner. But the present-day leadership - including the collaborators/excuse-makers/apologists, the cowed, intimidated enablers, and those who threw up their hands in frustration and gave up fighting or got discouraged and stopped fighting - ALL of those will have to answer for that.

Further, if we DON'T pursue IMPEACHMENT and REMOVAL FROM OFFICE and OTHER SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES for these greedy, lying, duplicitous, bloodthirsty schmucks, we'll in essence have given the green light to some other asshole who comes along - say maybe 40 or 50 years from now (since it appears that's the margin of egregiousness - some 50-odd years since joe mccarthy's disgracefully hideous era) - who'll try a stunt like this again, using the bush II era as a template. "Well, he did it and you guys sat back and didn't do anything to stop it, nobody said peep even after it was too late, so -- doesn't it follow that it mustn't have been all that big a deal? Certainly couldn't have been criminal, could it? After all, nobody pressed charges or called these people fully to account for what they did. Nobody went to jail (well, it remains to be seen what'll happen to libby). Nobody did any time. Nobody was called on the carpet. Nobody got fired or reprimanded. Yeah, maybe there was a little griping and some protests that didn't go anywhere, but that was it. So Big Fuckin' Deal! Clearly it wasn't any big deal, or big crime, see? No reason why I can't do this, too, then. Only THIS time, I'll get it right - ALL THE WAY. If bush/cheney did it and suffered no consequences, maybe it wasn't so wrong in the first place, 'eh?"

:grr:

[knight_of_the_star]

24. What if we get him after?

We could nail his ass once he's out of office, then we won't be stuck on a bunch of dead-enders in the Senate holding up the trial.

[calimary]

32. I've been thinking about that, myself. It might be the only recourse

we have. I mean, they aren't even talking about censuring the schmuck, much less IMPEACHMENT. :eyes:

One thing that would work in our favor - he would no longer have the White House machinery to protect him and give him cover. He wouldn't be all that useful to anybody anymore, and there'd be a lot more negatives to standing up for him by then anyway. By then, assuming he serves out his entire term, the taste he'll have left in most of America's mouth will be even more bitter than it is at the moment, and there'd be many more Americans that much gladder to be rid of him. cheney would be out. rove would be out. gates would be out. contradicta would be out. hadley would be out. snowjob would be out. bartlett would be out. ALL those worthless, scheming, double-dealing schmucks would be out. And that nearly-invincible White House protection would NOT be an option for them anymore. No more safety net. They'd still have some clout, but not NEARLY as much as they still enjoy now. Most of 'em, I imagine, would have skeedaddled over to hide out at the American Enterprise Institute or maybe Exxon-Mobil's board of directors, but even those organizations would boast a lot less clout with Democrats in the White House. They wouldn't be considered the "in" crowd anymore, 'cause everybody always gravitates to those who GOT. Any residue from bush/cheney would be marooned in the has-been, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately file.

Of course, I'm assuming here that a Democrat will win the White House in '08, anyway, which I think will be highly likely by the time we've all struggled to that point. The republi-CONS won't be gaining any ground by stonewalling the Iraq votes, considering how public opinion grows AGAINST them every week. ANYBODY the GOP puts up, next year (barring unforseen complications) is merely the sacrificial goat, I suspect. Further, there will probably be more Dems in the Senate AND the House by then, too, simply because there are so many more republi-CONS, especially in the Senate, who are up for reelection and whose seats are SERIOUSLY at risk. Imagine flipping gordon smith's seat, smarmy normie coleman's seat, AND PLEASE GUYS, PLEASE LET'S GO AFTER THAT MISERABLE, USELESS FUCKWAD saxby chambliss WITH EVERYTHING WE'VE GOT!!! This is a SERIOUS score that needs settling!!! Remember what his campaign did to Max Cleland!!!! Is that cement-headed louse james inhofe up for renewal, too, next year? What about the Mainers - are either collins or snowe vulnerable? Who else could we pick off? Let's GO AFTER those fuckers - so we get at least a 60-vote majority in the Senate! Besides - wouldn't you just love to neutralize lieberman's impact??? We're stuck with him until 2012. Wouldn't it be fabulous to render him utterly toothless and empty-handed, in a position where he couldn't do ANY further damage? That alone would make the quest worth it for me!

The only drawback at that point would be the urge many of 'em would have - to just take the high road and move on. That would be a compelling argument for some. But these deeds REALLY, TRULY, SERIOUSLY must NOT be allowed to go unpunished. What kind of message will THAT send to future generations, future dictator-wannabe presidents, and future power-mongers?

I think this is an option worth keeping in our back pockets, just in case.

I'd LOVE to see bushie boy having to face the music after he no longer has all that sitting-president's clout to cover his ass. ANY time he'd be forced to pay for what he's done would be fine with me.

[knight_of_the_star]

42. How about this

What if the new AG if a Dem looks the other way while a US Attorney or someone like that builds a case and prosecutes the sonofabitch. Justice delayed is not always justice denied. At the very least in the long run he will be able to keep Hitler and Stalin company in Hell.

[Zhade]

25. We've seen it happen twice in my lifetime.

The Dems failed to impeach Reagan for his treason, then repeated the mistake with Bush I and his bullshit FIRST Gulf War (also built upon massive lies).

[0rganism]

30. I'll simply refer the questioners to "They Thought They Were Free" by M. Mayer

As excellent an explanation of the "Good German" mindset as I've ever read:

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, 'regretted,' that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' that no 'patriotic German' could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head."

more: http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

[Zhade]

20. Agreed, but this was NOT a 'blunder' or 'mistake'.

NT!

[0rganism]

29. For some it was -- e.g., those who enlisted thinking they'd be fighting Osama bin Laden

or anyone in congress who believed bushco's sales team for the war product line

or those who voted for W in 2004 thinking the War President was doing a great job of protecting the country

but you're right, in essence, the war was fait accompli in January 2001.

[Divine Discontent]

19. agreed..

but being honest, most of the people on DU know this is going to cause us such a friggin headache around the world, and has, in every major issue because we can't be trusted in the world's eyes on anything thanks to shrubya... I think Kerry called Iraq something similar to what Reid did, a year ago...
;(

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[L. Coyote]

34. Or longer. You can start a war on the day of your chosing ...

I said this in the 1980s when Bush I invaded Iraq:

"It is a lot easier to start a war than to end one"

and

"You can't unilaterally decide when a war ends."

[Journeyman]

7. "...the most foolish war since Emperor Augustus in 9 B.C sent his legions into Germany and lost them

~Martin van Creveld
November, 2005

Costly Withdrawal Is the Price To Be Paid for a Foolish War

http://www.forward.com/articles/costly-withdrawal-is-the-price-to-be-paid-for-a-fo/

[coalition_unwilling]

37. No, while incredibly stupid, it's not as stupid as Hitler's invasion

of the Soviet Union in Operation Barbarossa during World War II.

[Dudley_DUright]

39. But of course Reid was talking about "...in the history of this country"

[coalition_unwilling]

40. Yah, but Creveld was saying invasion of Iraq was worst strategic

blunder since 9 B.C. As bad as invasion of Iraq was\is, it's not as big a strategic blunder (yet!!) as Hitler's invasion of Soviet Union.

[boobooday]

8. The competition is stiff . . . but I gotta go with at least top three

[SallyMander]

10. MSM response:

But... but... but... BRITNEY SHAVED HER HEAD!!!!

[IndianaGreen]

11. Because of Iraq, the map of the Middle East will be redrawn in ways that neither...

the USA nor our accomplice Israel will like. It seems fit that the two countries which wanted the war in Iraq the most, should be the ones reaping the fruits of the mess they have helped create.

In the UK, the Iraq War is viewed as a major disaster. It has taken some time for the American ruling class to arrive at the same solution, but arrived they have.

What Harry Reid said is so self-evident that only an idiot married to Elaine Chao would deny it.

[Zhade]

26. I guess I'm an idiot, then. I deny it - because it wasn't a 'mistake', it was a premeditated crime.

NT!

[w4rma]

31. It was definitely a mistake for our nation, even if it wasn't for the war-profiteers. (nt)

[Odin2005]

12. I thought the US not joining the Leage of Nations was?

Not to minimize Iraq, but there are plenty of things, Iraq included, that are in the running for "America's biggest foreign policy blunder."

:shrug:

[Grandrose]

13. Better wait awhile....

So many wars to fight and so little time (22 months)to go!
I suspect Mr. Bush is not done yet...I bet he will top Iraq!
:scared:

[olddad56]

14. The sad part is that it wasn't a foreign policy mistake. It was intentional.

[Zhade]

27. THANK you. Even DUers who know better are letting that lie become truth.

This was a premeditated crime, not a mistake.

[chknltl]

15. Agree with Reid, worst foreign policy mistake...

...the bats from this mistake have yet to all come home to roost.
chknltl is :scared: but hopeful.
I have renewed my hope because of how Madam Speaker of the Peoples House has led the Democrats so far. I see a tough as nails lady who has chosen a fine cast of fellow senators to surround herself with in the fight to reclaim Washington DC for the people.

Reid has less to work with here but he is by no means giving up! Help him out here my fellow DUers...sign his petition:

http://giveemhellharry.com/page/petition/iraqfilibuster

:patriot:

[Zhade]

17. Not a mistake, Reid - a PREMEDITATED CRIME.

What, members of Congress have never heard of the Office of Special Plans - Cheney's lie factory for generally MAKING SHIT UP about the "threat" from Iraq?

So is he just an idiot, or is he hedging his bets on calling crimes crimes?

[Divine Discontent]

21. are they too nervous to say it appears "malicious"

can't they say this? it sure seems malicious in the way they went about doing this, and damn straight, that 2/3 of the country is vehemently against this "war" continuing.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[Zhade]

28. Why WON'T they say it? A majority of Americans now know b*s* lied about WMD.

LIED. Not "was mistaken".

Yet they won't state the truth.

Why?

[Binka]

38. It Was Premeditated Genocide Yes Indeed Call It What It Is

Genocide of Iraqis and premeditated MURDER OF OUR TROOPS. Call it what it fucking is. This was NO MISTAKE it is a criminal operation by a crime syndicate. SOP for Motherfucking WAR PROFITEERING CRIMINALS. :mad:

[L. Coyote]

35. I saw the interview, and Reid hesitated, the pregnant pause almost burst...

and the baby was almost named "blunder" or some such moniker like "screw-up."

He finally said, "mistake." But, one could see the wheels turning over many other options first.
I imagine he passed over several that could not get past the FCC!

Do not confuse what politcos say with what they think! The need to live to fight another day too. And they know the FCC rules. You can't say "worse f--kup."

[OneBlueSky]

33. precisely . . . it was (and continues to be) a CRIME ! ! ! . . .

and at some point, those responsible are going to have to be brought to justice . . .

I'm just not sure it will be in my lifetime . . .

[YankmeCrankme]

41. Just cause it was intentional doesn't mean it isn't a mistake

Of course it was intentional to attack and reap profits from war, chaos and to cause instability. The problem is the consequences of that can turnout decidedly bad for even them. It was a colossal mistake to undertake this war, no good will come of it and much bad will. Unforeseen bad and, yet, still they look to cause more trouble. Unbelievable what we as a nation will accept from these fascists. Makes me wonder what percent of the population here has underlying fascist mindsets. I'm thinking a good portion.

[DemCam]

36. Chiang Kai-chek is right up there.

But...building permanent bases in Iraq is gonna have repercussions for years as well.