Navy Rejects Calif. Sonar Limits

[Joanne98]

Navy Rejects Calif. Sonar Limits
By AUDREY McAVOY
Associated Press Writer

February 13, 2007, 7:05 PM EST

HONOLULU -- The Navy says it won't comply with sonar training restrictions that aim to protect marine mammals off the California coast, arguing that the commission that imposed the rules does not have the jurisdiction to do so.

The U.S. Pacific Fleet said in a statement on Monday that the California Coastal Commission's rules cannot be applied beyond the scope of state waters, three nautical miles from shore.

"The Navy does not take lightly our responsibility to the environment and marine life," said Vice Adm. Barry Costello, commander of the U.S. 3rd Fleet in San Diego. "And we can be responsible environmental stewards while our sonar operators receive realistic training and experience at sea they need."

The Navy has been using sonar during training exercises off the California coast for decades, a practice that critics say can injure whales and other sea mammals. Last year, it sought permission for the exercises from the commission as part of new internal guidelines to ensure major exercises are environmentally sound.

The commission agreed to the exercises last month. But it also imposed restrictions on use of mid-frequency active sonar in a zone the Navy said was outside the commission's jurisdiction.

A call to the coastal commission was not immediately returned Tuesday.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-navy-whales,0,4609858.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[Bonobo]

1. Let's see how consistent all the anti-whaling posters are...

Navy sonar killing world's whales

http://www.cdnn.info/news/eco/e060121b.html

And this is our tax-money being used. This is our democracy.

Sorry there are no sexy pirate logos or beers being sold or cool video taken or self-aggrandizing websites, but...

Ear-splitting military sonar is needlessly threatening whales and other marine mammals throughout the world's oceans. Yet the U.S. Navy has resisted legal requirements to put safeguards in place during peacetime testing and training to protect marine life. In response to this dangerous breach of our bedrock environmental laws, NRDC is waging a campaign of courtroom action and public pressure to compel the Navy to restrict its use of deadly sonar.

High-intensity sonar blasts whales with noise billions of times more intense than levels known to disturb them and can cause their internal organs to hemorrhage. Scientists have linked the use of mid-frequency military sonar to hundreds of whale strandings and deaths around the world, in areas such as North Carolina, the Bahamas, Greece, the Canary Islands and Japan. Such sonar can also interfere with a whale's hearing, affecting its ability to navigate, avoid predators, find food, care for its young and, ultimately, survive.

MORE LINKS:
http://nrdc.org/wildlife/marine/sonar.asp

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/03/0331_040331_whalesincrisis.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1103_051103_whale_sonar.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42788-2005Jan27.html

http://www.savebiogems.org/whales/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13594711/

Edited the title to be more fair. It used to say "pro-piracy", but of course I realize that the original anti-whaling posters are not truly "pro-piracy". They merely supported Sea Shepherd DESPITE the fact that they were pirates.

[ret5hd]

2. Are you saying that the pro-seashepard group is pro-sonar???

If that's not what you are implying, i don't get it.

[Barrett808]

3. May be referring to whalers as pirates

So anti-Sea Shepherd == pro-piracy.

:shrug:

[hack89]

4. No - Sea Sheperd are the pirates

if I understand the comments about pirate flags and web sites correctly

[Barrett808]

5. In that context, I don't understand Bonobo's remarks. n/t

[Bonobo]

7. Please see post #6.

I am not saying they are pro-sonar. I am saying that this is an enormous mote that must be removed from our own eye before spitting venom at Japanese whalers.

We are a democracy. This is our country and we should at least have SOME influence on its actions before physically ATTACKING a sovereign nation for its behavior. Such behavior reeks of hypocrisy and is too close to our foreign policy in general for my comfort.

[Bonobo]

6. You are correct. I apologize and I changed the title.

I even left my snarky remark in the bottom of the post so you don't think I am trying to hide.

It was an offensive, innacurate remark that I am sorry for.

[Bonobo]

9. What I expected...

At this very moment, people are arguing in another open thread about how EVIL (nice jihad-like use of the word!) the Japanese are -ignoring their own country's crime.

I'll say it again people. THIS IS OUR COUNTRY. THAT IS THEIR COUNTRY. THEY HAVE SOVEREIGNTY. WE ARE A DEMOCRACY.

Get busy removing the mote from your own eyes before jumping on other nations.

Why is this thread ignored?

[flvegan]

12. And good for you

You've brought an issue before the eyes of others. When others express their outrage, will you support same, or will you just send it to the basement? Or maybe you'll just do what you've done.

I've expressed my outrage at the sonar issue.

I'm glad that you support ending this usage of sonar that results in the mistreatment/cruelty of the whales.

'Cuz.........that's what you were saying, right?

[Bonobo]

15. That is one of the things I'm saying.

At least I brought YOU to this thread.

I linked it 3 times to a group of people interested in the issues of saving whales.

I pointed out that this is your country that you CAN AFFECT. As opposed to working against sovereign nations with illegal and counterproductive actions that could easily lead to loss of human life.

I pointed out that you are feeding into the mentality that could lead to the deaths of others (such as other terrorists who have different ideas about what is moral/immoral). :scared:

So yes, I think I have done a good thing.

I hope you reconsider your actions and arguments.

I hope you can work on controlling your itchy posting finger and your strident, careless voice.

I will not be talking you you anymore, so I really hope some of this came through to you.

Peace.

:smoke:

[flvegan]

16. You lost me at "other terrorists"

Bye.

[Bonobo]

18. Figures that I lost you.

It's pretty simple, but I know that thinking requires "mental" muscles.

Buh-bye.

[flvegan]

19. Weak personal attack, don't you think?

[Bonobo]

20. It was cheap of you to say you didn't get the argument I advanced.

Let's play fair or not. Either way.

You have tried to paint me as some kind of corporatist, who hates whales and supports the slaughter of innocent animals.

I tried to make an arguments that show that you are not even acting in the best interests of what you say you are interested and that you are advocating violence based on feelings of personal morality. Arguments that could just as easily be made to support the blowing up of abortion clinics.

Articles I tried to point you toward to suggest that these actions are not only dangerous, but counter-productive because the Japanese govt. was ready to dump whaling but have been forced into supporting it in order to be perceived as nationalistic. If true, it would suggest diplomacy as the preferable way of dealing with the issue.

But you, with the icon of the pirate displayed proudly on each post, SEEM to be more interested in the self-promoting type of activism that attracts negative attention and money, but serves only to deepend the divide and does nothing to serve the interests of the whales except in the very short term.

Please try again to "understand" the arguments.

[flvegan]

21. Weak personal attack, don't you think?

[Bonobo]

22. Not as weak as repeating that same post, no.

Also ignoring everything that doesn't fit into your little tiny box.

I asked for reexamination of issues, of the thinking about the results of your scary morality-based arguments and I get that.

You really aren't worth it but I am trying...

BTW, it is the pirate/one-piece thing, isn't it? Verstehen sie nicht?

[flvegan]

11. So this is about making a point?

So if an anti-whaler doesn't "chime in" then they aren't consistent?

Well...I'm your huckleberry.

I'm anti-abusive sonar, and I'm anti-whaling. I'm also pro-Sea Shephered, regardless.

What you got, poster? Bring it...I'm nothing but ears.

[Bonobo]

14. Exactly, THAT is my point with that comment.

You are inconsistent if you spend your time pretending to be concerned about whales when it is actually the piracy that interests you more.

The "Japanese Whaling Bastard" threads have grabbed thousands of hours of attention and "educated" many people, including freepers who monitor DU, that:

1. DU'ers support illegal actions as long as they "FEEL IN THEIR HEARTS" they are justified. Pretty good justification for killing Docs who perform abortions if you follow that line of argument. After all, most would agree that human life is more valuable.

2. Japan is worthy of the deepest possible condemnation (even death in some poster's words) for the action of these illegal whalers (even though it's not technically illegal)

So to sum up, I think these threads and the various amounts of attention paid to them show yes, racism, hatred, hypocrisy.
This is YOUR COUNTRY doing the sonar. Where is the OUTRAGE for this.

Leave Japanese politics to Japan. Try to teach them. They are humans. They have feelings. Sinking the ships of some honest, hardworking blue collar folks is NOT going to do that. IT IS COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.

Work on your own country. THAT is what I am trying to point out.

[flvegan]

17. The welfare of the animals concerns me more.

That's why I fight for them;

That's why I rally for them;

That's why I don't eat them;

Work on your own...something.

[Trillo]

8. What a world it would be if all of us could

give the middle finger to the California Coastal Commission.

Why did the Navy ask them for permission, if the answer to the frequency restricted permission granted was going to be "No"?

Was the purpose of asking for permission to merely make the Coastal Commission look powerless?

[Zachstar]

10. The military is getting a bit too messed up.

One of the main reasons I decided not to join (Even tho I had contacted a recruiter and everything) (Had high ASVAB score)

And I agree about the fact that people seem to be more concerned about whales being killed by a few ships than noting how this action of sonar testing and use will cause massive problems for ocean life.

Glad to help such a topic of reason get back into the mix. Ok off to study I go.

[pinniped]

13. What a bunch of creeps. First they want to recruit dolphins and sea lions....

to lasso these 'rogue' swimmers/divers and now they want to continue to bombard the oceans with sonar that kills and injures them.

Fuck them.

Let me guess, we are at war so nothing else matters.