Senator to propose surveillance of illegal images (cartoons included)

[seriousstan]

A forthcoming bill in the U.S. Senate lays the groundwork for a national database of illegal images that Internet service providers would use to automatically flag and report suspicious content to police.

The proposal, which Sen. John McCain is planning to introduce on Wednesday, also would require ISPs and perhaps some Web sites to alert the government of any illegal images of real or "cartoon" minors. Failure to do would be punished by criminal penalties including fines of up to $300,000

The Arizona Republican claims that his proposal, a draft of which was obtained by CNET News.com, will aid in investigations of child pornographers. It will "enhance the current system for Internet service providers to report online child pornography on their systems, making the failure to report child pornography a federal crime," a statement from his office said.

To announce his proposal, McCain has scheduled an afternoon press conference on Capitol Hill with Sen. Chuck Schumer, a New York Democrat; John Walsh, host of America's Most Wanted; and Lauren Nelson, who holds the title of Miss America 2007.

http://news.com.com/Senator+to+propose+surveillance+of+illegal+images/2100-1028_3-6156976.html?tag=nefd.lede

Here are the actual definitions under the law....

(a) In General.— Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that—
(1)
(A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
(B) is obscene; or
(2)
(A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and
(B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;
or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be subject to the penalties provided in section 2252A (b)(1), including the penalties provided for cases involving a prior conviction.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001466---A000-.html

NOW, could someone tell me the age of these cartoon characters??...

[acmavm]

1. McCain sure is one senile sick pathetic spotty old bastard.

He's come a long way from the days where he fronted for Charles Keating.

[anotherdrew]

5. he is indeed pathetic pandering useless gas-bag who can go to hell

fuck him and his morality police!

[derby378]

2. I wish I could say it'll never pass...

...but there are too many wishy-washy Dems who will allow Republicans to beat them over the head with this while shouting that "Demonrats promote kiddie porn." We do need to shut this down, but we have to do it smart.

[wakeme2008]

3. This is so funny I can not believe it

This law would give out the largest collection of kiddie porn to any ISP..... And what will happen once there.....

[Irreverend IX]

39. Holy crap, read the story!

It looks like the bill sponsors want to build a list of hash codes for offending images, then have ISPs automatically hash every single file that goes through their routers to make sure it's not on the list. For those who don't understand what that means, suffice it to say it would be about as efficient and convenient as opening every single letter sent through the US postal service and checking to make sure it doesn't contain child porn. It would slow Net traffic down by at least a factor of ten. And if someone wanted to get around this technology, they could create a utility that automatically changes image files by a few bytes and then send them with impunity.

[wtmusic]

4. Don't we all want John McCain to decide what "serious artistic value" is?

and a nice generic "obscene" designation which can cover anything he likes?

Is he kidding? Someone tell me he's kidding.

[ChoralScholar]

22. I'm guessing the litmus test

will be whether McCain himself can get aroused and masturbate to the image.

McCain Orgasm = Conviction
No McCain Orgasm = Acquittal

No mental pictures concerning McCain masturbation are needed here - I'm just making a point.

I'm just saying - it's been pretty accurate among right-wingers that 'He who barks the loudest about it - is probably engaged in it'

[skipos]

6. http://www.TheRealMcCain.com

http://www.TheRealMcCain.com

[TlalocW]

7. Not only are they underage

But they're engaging in beastiality!!!

TlalocW

[seriousstan]

8. Exactly how old is Sonic and friends?

[originalpckelly]

10. Actually, as I understand it, they have the same problem as Webster...

so they're actually much older than they look. :rofl:

[Dracos]

9. So this is what we have to look forward to

if this asshole is elected President.

[villager]

11. fuckin' Schumer is co-sponsoring?

so this means the bill has a chance of making it out of the "Democratic-controlled" senate?

[Glorfindel]

12. "conspiracy to depict an image that 'appears to be' (something)"

is surely the vaguest definitition of a "crime" ever devised. However, given the current composition of the Supreme Court, it might just have a chance of being upheld.

[HuffleClaw]

13. what a waste of time

[LiberalFighter]

14. Dog years?

[LiberalFighter]

15. How about stick figures of kiddies?

If they don't show a dress or pants then they are naked.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. There's no such thing as an illegal cartoon.

:shrug:

[ChoralScholar]

21. I was trying to figure out

how we were going to determine the minor-ity of a cartoon. Do we have to draw it and let it sit for 18 years? How is it going to be determined if a cartoon is depicting a minor?

Oooh.. one more thing:

[youngdem]

17. Well great, this should tie up McBain for a while

Make him the SOLE arbiter of the 'serious artistic merit' and force him to sift through the images one by one, and hold him criminally responsible if he misses any.

He really just shows how stupid and desperate for attention for his campaign he is. He has decided, in his infinite 'Maverick' knowledge, that the way to win in 08 is to become a blend of Tipper Gore with Bush on steroids. Good idea.

This is useless pandering at the expense of civil liberties and the time and money of ISP's.

What a dumbass.

[CabalPowered]

18. Sounds like they're bringing back the Comstock law

Fuck that.

[madinmaryland]

19. Sounds like he has been listening to Lieberman..

Hmmmmmm. Makes sense that he may try and run with Lieberman in 08.

[many a good man]

20. They can start with THIS pic !

[rickrok66]

23. COPA Redux

I believe this is how the Child Online Protection Act (COPA) was ruled unconstitutional. How can you gage what drawing, sculpture, or painting is obscene? The COPA included text. The original COPA would have made Nabokov's Lolita a work of child porn. This current nonsense will tag some goofy cartoon and then bunch of teenagers on myspace will get arrested for passing it arond as a joke. Also, according to this new law, all those photos you took of those naked cupid statues from your vacation in Europe are now child porn - because you know them Europeans are godless seular progressives and don't have good Christian family values anyhow.

[TankLV]

24. OMG! SOMEBODY has WAY too much time on their hands...

opps - I said "hands"...

[slowry]

25. Wow, they don't call him "Tails" for nothin'. (re: the OP's image lol) n/t

[Zhade]

27. ...

LOL!

[Zhade]

26. Unconstitutional - USSC already ruled that drawn porn involving minors is not child pornography.

NT!

[Nutmegger]

28. Senator to propose surveillance of illegal images

The proposal, which Sen. John McCain is planning to introduce on Wednesday, also would require ISPs and perhaps some Web sites to alert the government of any illegal images of real or "cartoon" minors. Failure to do would be punished by criminal penalties including fines of up to $300,000.

The Arizona Republican claims that his proposal, a draft of which was obtained by CNET News.com, will aid in investigations of child pornographers. It will "enhance the current system for Internet service providers to report online child pornography on their systems, making the failure to report child pornography a federal crime," a statement from his office said.

To announce his proposal, McCain has scheduled an afternoon press conference on Capitol Hill with Sen. Chuck Schumer, a New York Democrat; John Walsh, host of America's Most Wanted; and Lauren Nelson, who holds the title of Miss America 2007.

Civil libertarians worry that the proposed legislation goes too far and could impose unreasonable burdens on anyone subject to the new regulations. And Internet companies worry about the compliance costs and argue that an existing law that requires reporting of illicit images is sufficient.

Full article: http://news.com.com/Senator+to+propose+surveillance+of+illegal+images/2100-1028_3-6156976.html?tag=nefd.lede

[oldtimecanuk]

29. In all honesty, the only problem that I have with this is...

another freedom bites the dust..... We just had a very long discussion on a form about a teen boy looking at porn online. My biggest problem with this issue is, where the hell are the parents? So, we just arbitrarily give up another freedom, because parents are where? This part is Bullshit... If your going to be a parent, then be a damn parent and don't let your child become a victim on the Internet or anywhere else. Now, if a convicted sexual predator had either his thing removed (extreme) or his balls removed it would probably take care of many of the current online problems...... So, lets get real and start taking responsibility for both our children and the damn perverts out there..... Once again...

JMHO

ww

[Kagemusha]

30. My problem is the "cartoon" part.

What the hell is that?... Courts tolerate the laws on actual child porn because actual children have to be hurt in illegal manners to produce it. 18+ actors or actresses who look like they're younger are legal... so how the hell does one justify the ISP's reporting suspicious *cartoon* porn? On what grounds are people going to be prosecuted for that?

[ScottytheRadical]

31. I agree, that's my problem with it as well.

How exactly is a law enforcement offical going to determine the age of a cartoon character? Would it be based on the year they were first drawn, or how old they appear to be? For example, take a pornographic cartoon involving Garfield and Odie. Well, Garfield was first drawn in 1978, so that would make him 29, but then he's only a 3 or 4 year-old cat in the cartoons...but then, in Cat years, he's probably at least in his 30's by now...

And what exactly constitutes "pornography" for cartoons? Could it apply to any cartoons drawn with anatomically correct features? And just HOW OLD IS THE LITTLE MERMAID?

I seriously doubt any proposal involving cartoons would hold up to constitutional scrunity. The Supreme Court already struck down a ban on *stories* involving minors, correct?

[Kagemusha]

32. I'm sure you're right about such a ban being struck down

and the fact is, it doesn't matter what age a cartoon character is; that's moral censorship, not protecting actual children. None of this "in the big picture" junk either - being a scumbag is not, in and of itself, a crime, and McCain is not going to make it one while the Constitution is protected by the courts. So, he's just making a lot of pointless work for ISP's on that score.

To say nothing of how he intends ISP's to actually do this. Bits of data can be shipped disassembled and reassembled on the other end. That's one of the internet's most basic functions...

[truthisfreedom]

33. That's what law enforcement is for. Let them do their jobs... if something egregious

appeared on a forum I was hosting, I'd certainly report it, but I'm not going to be held responsible for identifying the age of a "cartoon" image someone decides to upload as a prank. McCain has finally flipped his wig.

[oldtimecanuk]

34. I agree with you.... and as I said...

Do we really want another hit on our freedoms? What needs to happen is have the courts uphold the laws that are in existance, and have parents do their damn jobs..... Care for their kids.... Now, on the flip side of this is the income factor that parents are currently receiving for the jobs that they do.... That may be a serious problem in being able to truely dedicate the time necessary to be a true parent...

ww

[CoffeeCat]

35. I see no problem with this...

My husband works in upper-mgmt for an ISP. He's happily turned
over information to law enforcement and to the Center for Missing
and Exploited Children--when abusive images were discovered.

I see no problem with a law requiring him to report any child pornography that he
comes across in his job.

I can't imagine that anyone on DU--who found child-porn images--would simply ignore
them and go about their day. Those images are evidence of sex crimes.

I think sometimes we complicate really simple matters. You spot pictures of innocent
children being raped and exploited--you call the cops. End of story.

[Bonescrat]

36. But cartoons...?

[CoffeeCat]

37. I agree...

...that the cartoon portion of this, is a bit off the wall.

It's almost as if McCain was attempting to purposely fuck up decent
legislation.

Sometimes I think they throw in absurd caveats---so that someone will
hold up the legislation or completely change it until its a toothless
tiger---and then no real change happens. But McCain can walk away,
shrug his shoulders and claim, "But I tried!".

We're all being so bamboozled. It's really hard to take.

[Nihil]

40. I think that's worth repeating ...

> It's almost as if McCain was attempting to purposely fuck up decent
> legislation.
>
> Sometimes I think they throw in absurd caveats---so that someone will
> hold up the legislation or completely change it until its a toothless
> tiger---and then no real change happens. But McCain can walk away,
> shrug his shoulders and claim, "But I tried!".

And the flip side is that anyone attempting to point this out is
immediately accused of "supporting child porn" so there will be a
deathly silence on this from both sides of the aisle.

[Nutmegger]

38. KICK

because this is important.