One Mt. Hood climber found dead.

[brook]

Just coming over CNN...:(

This is so sad.

[truthisfreedom]

1. It's not as sad as the family who lost their dad when they were stuck in the snow recently.

Consider that mountain climbers know the risks they are taking when they climb. It's a dangerous sport. I feel bad for the guy too, but he knew when he started climbing that he might not make it back.

[beam me up scottie]

2. It's not a competition. n/t

[brook]

3. Sorry.

I'm not interested in condemnations at this time.

[truthisfreedom]

15. I'm sorry if I offended you. There was no condemnation intended in my post.

I used to be a rock climber. I knew there were risks. I quit after breaking 4 bones in a free-climbing fall.

Death while climbing serves as a solemn reminder of just how serious and dangerous this sport is.

[brook]

22. Thanks for the apology...I think.

Your experience doesn't make it okay with me to imply this dead climber is responsible for his own death... the people up there with him - the rescuers - are climbers, too.

I don't want to belabor the point. I just don't care to hear anymore blame laid on the climbers. It's like blaming our military for their own deaths in Iraq because they 'volunteered'.

[hlthe2b]

48. So should his wife, his kids, his parents not have loved him,

nor supported his hobby? If he was well-trained and as well prepared as possible for this kind of technical climbing, how can one say he was being irresponsible? To say that, would be to tell the wife of a cop or fire fighter--killed on the job trying to save others that THEY were irresponsible. Life is inherently risky. None of us is promised another day--even if we spend that day safely tucked in the home.

His family has my sympathy and hopes that this "closure" may bring some peace. I can only hope the other two might be found alive.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. I have sympathy for his family too

but this is one of the dumbest things I have heard in a long time. These guys must have had a death wish.

[TankLV]

92. I have sympathy for his family and friends.

Just like if the incident had been one of playing chicken with cars...

Must be hard to be the family or friend of an idiot.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. Oh come on

These 3 men freely chose to climb a mountain in DECEMBER. They didn't do it to pay for college or to get career training or to protect us from terrorism or any of the other reasons people join the military. They did it for FUN.

Sorry but I think this is one of the dumber things a person can choose to do for recreation. Climbing mountains in DECEMBER is stupid and downright dangerous.

I also believe that we have every right to label this as stupidity since the rescue of these guys must be costing lots of money - tax dollars.

[hlthe2b]

62. I thought that too, Proud2Blib, but apparently December is

normally a safer time to climb Mt. Hood--from an ice, avalanche standing. This storm apparently is historical in its being unseasonal... just from some of the news articles and links I've read lately.. Wish I'd bookmarked them, but didn't...:shrug:

[janx]

63. It was not unseasonal; it was just BIG.

Winter in Oregon is cloudy and rainy/snowy, depending on elevation. You are right about avalanche. Those usually happen in spring in the intermountain west. (Freeze/thaw, freeze/thaw, sun on ice/snow, etc.)

[hlthe2b]

64. yes, I meant to say unusual, not really unseasonal...eom

[janx]

66. The strange thing is that Oregon has been getting

these pineapple weather systems from the Pacific very relentlessly this year. I have family there, and the amount of moisture this particular early winter has been remarkable. By way of contrast, my son, who lives in Alaska, has seen comparatively little snow.

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. I think we could call it unseasonable if it was JULY

but it is December. It snows in December all over the northern hemisphere.

[hlthe2b]

77. yes.."misspoke"...meant unusual--typed unseasonable....

I'm frequently sorta "brain-dead" Sunday evenings anticipating Monday...

[Buck Rabbit]

84. "Unusual" is kind of misleading too.

It is unusual for 100 mile an hour winds to come up from a storm from the South. But it would have been quite normal for 40-90 mile an hour winds to come up without prior forecast on any winter day.

You can see Mt Hood from my living room and I have eaten fierce East winds from the Columbia River Gorge for over 50 winters now. They can come up with barely a notice and last for days. The wind itself can cause a white out without any new snow. To top that off the mountain often creates its own windy weather when it is calm as can be down here.

They are very good at predicting that it will be stormy on the mountain, but never ever trust a winter prediction that it will be calm. See this Saturday for proof, when they were saying all day Friday that the weather would be clear enough for them to search.


I don't mean to be argumentative, but like many Oregonians here, I find it kind of exasperating when people say that a white out on the mountain was unusual or unpredicted. It should always be assumed to be a likely event on any winter climb.

[hlthe2b]

85. Same applies to the Colorado Rockies where I live...

But, to apply your definition, there is NEVER a "usual" pattern. The old adage in Colorado, "don't like the weather? Wait a minute..." truly does apply.

BTW, I don't think anyone is saying that a white out in December is unusual. Rather it is the size, duration, and magnitude of the storm in December that many are considering unusual...

[janx]

88. I lived in Colorado for 11 years...

the snow that happens in the Cascades is far more brutal than what happens in the Rockies (if you can believe it...)

By the way--just about every place uses that quote ;-) I've heard it in the Midwest, New England, and the intermountain US...

[hlthe2b]

90. I've lived in the MW, NE, and SE: it really doesn't apply there...

It sure as hell does in the intermountain West...

Cascades has "coastal effect" snows, so I don't argue that point..

[janx]

96. Yeah, the NW gets wonderful, brutal snow. n/t

[janx]

86. The Columbia River Gorge is..

GORGEOUS! I remember being at the museum there before my mother died.

[Trajan]

111. When I compare YOUR heartless lack of compassion

To the climbers choice of climbing season ....

I find your 'choice' to be 'dumber' .....

Many times, people we love do 'dumb' things, like skateboard into the road, or oversteer their car in a highway .... yet we grieve them

We DONT stand up and say "Grandma was SOOOOOO Stoopid for slipping off that top step and breaking her neck in the stairway - She COULD have worn rubber soled shoes, but NOOOOOOOO: She HAD to wear those slippery socks .... She is SO dumb !" ....

Compassion should be automatic for us ..... sometimes it is not, apparently ...

[psychopomp]

87. You risk climbing a mountain, you accept the possibility

of losing your life. What is difficult to understand about that? Yes, he is responsible for his own death, and I should add he is, in a sense, fortunate. There are many ways to die that do not involve taking a risk for something you love.

In the unforgettable words of the backwoodsman in "Deliverance," "What in the hell you want to f@ck around with that river for, anyway?"

[northzax]

118. you get into a car

you accept the possibility of death or serious injury. same with aircraft. life is risk.

[treestar]

110. Well by all means, everyone on the board hear this

And adjust your posts accordingly.

This board is for one person, and what that one person does not want discussed, we should not post. Everyone get it?

[liberalhistorian]

23. Knowledge of risks means shit

to the family and friends who have to endure the loss. What the fuck difference does knowledge of risks make to them? They're suffering as much as the Kim family or any other family dealing with such a loss. As those above pointed out, this is not a competition and we are not interested in condemnations at this point.

Do we know yet which one was found dead? One of the climbers, Brian Hall, is from my city, Rapid City, SD, and his parents are in OR now with the other families awaiting word.

And if it's James Kelley, he has a wife and three children, you gonna tell them that his death isn't as sad and means less just because he "knew the risks?"

[NMDemDist2]

27. well, yeah I am

I did waterwater rafting for years in some pretty hairy conditions

one of my dearest friends just died this year in a kayaking accident and although I was sad and shocked all I could think was "he died doing what he loved the most"

it's a big difference to lose a computer geek to a freak storm who didn't know the risks and never planned to be in jeopardy to a sportsman who's love was thrill seeking adventure

[brook]

28. The storm that trapped

the three on Mt. Hood was unexpected. IOW, they didn't go up there to challenge a blizzard.

And I posit that James Kim died doing something he dearly loved....trying to protect his family.

edit:corrected typo

[NMDemDist2]

30. of course he did and was heroic in his efforts to protect them

but these climbers climbed Mt McKinley for heavens sake, that's the poster boy of "freak storm" mountains

they knew the risks. mountain climbing (along with white water, extreme skiing etc) are always dangerous. one misstep, one "freak storm" away from disaster.

wilderness sports are NOT "E" ticket rides at Disneyland and the enthusiasts who pursue them know that. it's part of the thrill.

it's tragic the climbers ran into trouble but it's still not the same as the Kim family IMO

[kestrel91316]

31. Any winter climber who has ANY business going on Hood this time of

year is gonna have the the sense to carry plenty of gear for bad weather. Snow climbing is a whole different animal from summer camping. These guys were prepared.

Sometimes your number is just up.

[liberalhistorian]

32. Exactly, thank you.

Families don't grieve any less because a person "died doing what they loved." That's bullshit. If my son, God forbid, were to die "doing something he loved", I would be just as grief-stricken and it would be just as painful. Dying "doing something he loved" wouldn't mean shit.

[NMDemDist2]

39. i'm not discounting the grief of their loved ones

i'm just saying it's a totally differt circumstance as the Kims

I still grieve for my friend too, but he knew the risks and sometimes it's just your turn

[NMDemDist2]

54. no such thing

Mt Hood is infamous for freaky weather

it's part of it's attraction to climbers. It's known to be one of the most challenging mountains in the lower 48 and part of that challenge is the regular "freak" weather

If they planned on a winter climb of Mt Hood, they knew they were pushing the envelope. that mountain is a killer in the summer, much less in December

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. It is December

It snows in December. Unexpected blizzards happen on mountains in December.

These guys were obviously not rocket scientists.

[truthisfreedom]

43. Exactly.

Anyone who has taken life-threatening risks understands this point well. If I died skydiving I'd hope at least some of my friends would remember me as having died doing something I loved, and I would hope that might ease some of the pain and eventually let them smile at my memory.

[KurtNYC]

67. And my friends died this spring doing what they loved

Chuck had spent a lifetime trying to make back country sports safer for others.

Three members of the Mammoth Mountain Ski Patrol died Thursday morning, April 6, when they fell 21 feet into a volcanic fumarole in a "snow collapse" near Chair 3/Facelift, ski area officials said.

"Four patrollers were involved and three didn't make it," said ski area communications director Joani Lynch.

The patrollers were identified as Charles Walter Rosenthal, 58, who lived in Sunny Slopes; John Scott McAndrews, 37, of Bishop and James Jinkuk Juarez, 35, of Granada Hills, Calif. Memorial funds in their names were established on Friday.

Seven other ski patrollers reportedly were injured as the result of inhalation of dangerous gases and were taken to Mammoth Hospital, but Rusty Gregory, the ski area's chief executive officer, said they were recovering. Six were kept overnight.

http://www.mammothlocal.com/news/3_ski_patrollers_die.php

It was a thrilling beautiful life, he left us a legacy of info about avalanches. It is obviously dangerous and not for everyone but I suport the freedom to choose that for yourself.

[NMDemDist2]

68. Mammoth is a monster

I hiked through a crevasse that is a fault line near there

spooky stuff knowing that fault could slip at any moment and i'd be toast if that was the hour it chose to let loose.

sorry to hear about your buddy, Ski Patrol guys are the best :hug:

[primavera]

139. Agreed

Sure, life is always dangerous, but there's an element of voluntarism to dangerous sporting activities that is absent from other potentially dangerous activities. I cannot go to work and support my family without driving from my home to my place of work, so I have to drive whether I like it or not. I cannot function as a normal human being without crossing a street and risking being hit by a passing bus, so I run that risk because there I have no real choice in the matter. On the other hand, I do not have to try to break the vertical limit and survive at altitudes incapable of sustaining human life. I do not have to cling precariously to a miniscule fragment of rock a mile above the surface of the earth, any more than I have to climb into a running wood chipper. It's a free country and I am and should be free to make the choice to place myself in a position of physical peril if that's really what turns me on. But if I perish in the pursuit of a purely elective activity I knew could cost me my life, I've at least had some say in the manner of my demise. And that does seem materially different than a person who is randomly struck down despite their best efforts to ensure their health and safety. There's an element of tragedy to an inadvertent, unintended death that's lacking in the death of someone who voluntarily chooses to place their sensory gratification ahead of their safety, knowing the price they might pay and making the conscious decision that they are willing to pay that price. Most of us don't have any choice in the matter.

[truthisfreedom]

41. It isn't as sad to me personally. I said nothing about his family. Look, I didn't kill anybody.

There are angry people on this forum, apparently, looking for a punching bag, and I'm not going to take that shit from anyone.

I'm not telling ANYONE's family that their loss is less sad than anyone else's loss. That's a terrible conclusion for you to reach from my straightforward post.

Some people believe others are entitled to their opinions. I expressed my opinion about how this makes me feel. It wasn't about anyone but me.

[hlthe2b]

53. I understand, TIF.... Some recent DU threads, though have had

posts that have been about as compassionate :sarcasm: as those we'd see in Freeperland.

I imagine we are all getting a little sensitized given that... That includes my upstream post...

[iamjoy]

79. Not Necessarily

There may be some small comfort for the family in knowing their loved one died doing what he/she loved.

You know, it's kind of like when Steve Irwin died. He was a bold, live large kind of guy. He put himself in dangerous situations (of course, sting rays are supposed to be "safe"). And he died doing what he loved. For some one adventerous and risk-taking, it may be better to die like that than to die in bed.

So, while I wouldn't say the death means less, I would say there may be some (small) comfort in knowing they died doing what they loved.

[tabasco]

103. Thanks for this.

Some people need to work on their humanity a bit.

It seems many just want to revel in another's death, as if it makes them feel superior.

"I'M NOT OUT BEING STUPID CLIMBING MOUNTAINS SO I AM BETTER THAN THIS 'IDIOT'."

I wish these assholes would find somewhere else to post. They really make me puke. :puke:

[cwydro]

108. Thank you. I agree.

Easy to criticize adventurous folks while you're sitting on your fanny in a warm living room. Geez. Some of these posts make me ill. This country would never have been settled if some of these people had been around; no doubt they woudl be happy just believing the world is flat. "There be monsters out there". Sheesh. Stay home and be safe and stop criticizing those with the desire to live life to the fullest. Chickenhearted Monday morning quarterbacks.

[Cleita]

5. Any death is sad. His family will grieve as much as that other

family. Why are you blaming the victim here? It's a tragedy.

[Little Wing]

6. uh oh

has the bat-signal for the "UNTRAINED MORON" types just been lit?

[rockymountaindem]

7. Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

Otherwise you look like a clod in this case.

[Egalitariat]

9. How do you decide things like this?***

nm

[TheCowsCameHome]

17. I doubt they set out thinking they'd not be returning.

C'mon. It's sad all around.

[Warpy]

19. Not only that, but the ice shelter and presence of climbing

gear seems to indicate they knew what they were doing and knew how to survive most winter weather.

Remember, they didn't know a prolonged blizzard was on its way when they set out.

I hope the others are found alive, but it's not looking good.

[kestrel91316]

35. The gear is typical for winter snow climbing. Hood is known for

inclement weather, too. These guys had a rope. Therefore they had harnesses, ice axes, crampons, layers of winter clothing for this sort of situation, possibly even helmets. These were SERIOUS climbers.

All serious climbers prepare well - we are gear and gadget junkies. You do everything you can to ensure comfort and safety at the level you decide is appropriate for yourself, and then off you go. You pay your money and you take your chances.

[NMDemDist2]

40. exactly!

the families will be devastated but these guys knew what they could be getting into

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. Would you climb a mountain in DECEMBER?

[Morgana LaFey]

113. Why not December? It's my understanding that Mt. Hood snow

turns to ice in the summer.

[kestrel91316]

114. I would not personally tackle Hood in December, but then I am

a bit of a chicken.

That said, the most dangerous, frightening snow climb I ever did was in MAY. It was warming up, and the snow was melting away between the snow in a couloir and the rock face, leaving a VERY unstable situation that got worse as the day went on.

Snow climbing is best done in the fall/winter, when there's lots of COLD to keep the snow stable.

[liberalhistorian]

24. If the dead climber is James Kelley, he has a wife and three

children, is his loss not as sad for them just because he "knew the risks?" The others have families and friends who love them as well, are they suffering less because he "knew the risks?" Somehow, I don't think so.

[AngryAmish]

75. When one is married and has children one has responsibilities

Said children have to be fed, shod, housed and educated.

The guy made his wife a single mother because he wanted to climb mountains. In December. In Oregon. He did this for his own thrills. Trying to do this was grossly irresponsible.

[Critters2]

80. I agree. I won't drive to the next town over in a snow storm, and always check

weather before heading out. And these guys climbed Mt. Hood in December, and were taken by surprise by a snowstorm?! Irresponsible. That's the only word for it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

100. No one is saying it is less sad

Of course it is sad. It's death. That is always sad.

But this guy had a wife and 3 kids and he went up a mountain in December? And how much did it cost the state of Oregon to search for him and his friends?

His kids are now fatherless and his wife is a widow because he was a fucking idiot. That makes it even more tragic.

[High Plains]

124. Please stop it! I used to respect proud2Blib's posts.

I don't understand why someone would go on and on about how stupid the climbers were.

It just seems tacky.

[proud2BlibKansan]

136. Tacky as opposed to suicidal

I'll take tacky :)

[Critters2]

138. Agree again......this is some kind of record, but when you're right,

you're right!

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Natural selection

And there are some who doubt Darwin.

[mountainvue]

60. So one person's death is more "valuable"

than another's? Come on.

[northzax]

119. see, to me

climbing a mountain, fully equipped, is a lot less inherently risky than driving, at night, on an unimproved road in the middle of a mountain blizzard. But maybe that's just me.

[BrotherBuzz]

4. Body found in second ice cave

Portland Mountain Rescue officials confirmed Sunday afternoon that crews found the body of one climber in a snow cave different from one that officials zeroed in on earlier in the day.

http://www.katu.com/

[oldtime dfl_er]

8. As one who lives in the Pacific Northwest

I know this kind of tragedy happens all too often in the mountains around here. Experienced climbers have a better than average chance of surviving, yes, but elevation sickness and hypothermia can cause even the most experienced to become disoriented. Yes, they were aware this could happen when they began their climb, but it sounds as though they did everything "right", but the elements were just too much. Sad sad sad.

And a word for the rescuers...they are really heroic people.

[brook]

11. Yes, the rescuers are heroes.

And thanks for reminding people that these climbers did everything right. It gave great hope that they would be found alive.

As I was in the case of the Kim family, I am deeply saddened for everyone there - the climbers, the rescue teams, the families and friends.

Thanks again for your words - wise and kind.

[BrotherBuzz]

20. The climbers didn't do everything right...

And before you jump on me, I should explain I have a dog in this fight: my cousin was lost on Mt Hood in 2003 and made the same mistake the climbers did - none of them carried a Mountain Locater Unit.

The Mountain Locater Unit can be rented for five bucks a day and would have made the search a snap after one was activated. Cheap insurance.

My cousin left a wife and two young kids behind because of his disdain for electronic equipment. Damn the Luddites, MLU's should be mandatory for climbing - winter or summer.

End of rant.

[brook]

26. Sorry bout your cousin.

Have you told his widow and children how you feel?

[BrotherBuzz]

38. She'd probably spearhead the effort once she finds closer

Four years of fruitless spring searches, with a fifth looming this spring, the family has had a tough time coming to gripes with it.

[brentspeak]

29. Unfortunately, it looks like the climbing community doesn't want mandated Mountain Locator Units

The following is from a ridiculous essay written by a climber for "Climbing" magazine back in 1996. He's arguing that Mountain Locator Units shouldn't be mandatory equipment for Oregon climbers:

http://www.americanalpineclub.org/pdfs/MRjokers.pdf

Certainly we are well aware of the risks. No other sport features obituaries of its participants so prominently in its periodicals. But most climbers know that proper skill, equipment and judgment can minimize the risk to such a degree that the possibility of injury or death is far outweighed by the joy and personal growth the sport generates.

It's difficult to read through that guy's essay without squirming impatiently in total annoyance; he fails to give one good reason why Mountain Locator Units shouldn't be mandatory for Oregon climbers.

[BrotherBuzz]

45. Not unlike the arguments against....

mandatory motorcycle helmet laws. :shrug:

[tblue37]

91. Do they consider that the rescuers

who are mobilized to go up after them when they get into trouble could be endangered, too, and that having those units to make rescue operations easier and safer (and less expensive) might be a good thing for the sake of the rescuers?

[BrotherBuzz]

101. That, and I suspect the Mountain Rescue boys are loaded with radios for instant communication

They have no desire to perform their task without a net.

[northzax]

120. since the rescuers are mountaineers in Oregon themselves

yes, I think they do know.

and people drive without seatbelts, and ride motorcycles without helmets, and vote republicn. people do stupid things.

[primavera]

140. If thinking of others was in the forefront of their minds...

... they wouldn't have been there in the first place. If you stopped to think that there was any chance at all, no matter how slim, that a choice you were about to make might widow your spouse, orphan your children, and endanger the lives of dozens of rescue workers, how could you possibly reach the conclusion that proceeding was a conscionable decision? Since these guys are presumably not sociopaths, the only other explanation left is that they did not stop to think about others and the consequences their actions might have on them.

[janx]

47. I sincerely hope that this guy does not represent the whole

of the climbing community, because that's not bravery--that's stupidity.

[BrightKnight]

83. enhanced 911 cell phones, PLB's, and rescue costs

Given the enormous costs of finding and rescuing people in these situations the state would be silly not to require personal locater beacons. The climbing community is not paying for the rescue.

Anybody going into the back country should cary something like this.

Most blue-water ships carry EPIRB.

---
Mandating an enhanced 911 and emergency beacon feature on cell phones would save lives in more ordinary situations. A chip to add GPS to a cell phone costs less than $10. Adding the feature would be very cheap.

[Critters2]

81. Does he offer words of gratitude for those who risk their lives to rescue

these arrogant SOBs?

[NMDemDist2]

46. agreed! I was so glad when those babies came out

it was cheap insurance against avalanches when doing extreme skiing

they were as much a "must have" as my googles once they became available and while I never needed it, it saved more than one friend's life

[achtung_circus]

70. I found this comment at HuffPO, he seems to know whereof he speaks.

Bummer. Tragedy. But I've soloed McKinley, climbed in the Andes, and climbed the route they did on Mt. Hood, and was on the Cooper Spur two weeks before they went...These supposedly expert climbers (guided up Denali, residents of Dallas and Manhattan) attempted a 'light and fast overnight' by climbing into the teeth of a very well-forecast storm. The day they started, forecasts were calling for 40mph winds and heavy rain in the valleys, 6,000-10,000 feet lower than their elevations on Hood. Coastal winds two days ago were 90mph, and recorded wind speeds on Mt. Rainier reached 114.

Mt. Hood, in blizzard conditions, is much more committing than McKinley or Mt. Rainier in good summer weather. They did a couple things that expert climbers wouldn't do:
-They did this climb in the rainiest, stormiest autumn ever recorded for the Pacific Northwest.
-The kept climbing in the face of poor weather, but they probably had worked hard to get time off, make plane reservations, etc.
-They split up, with two 'going for help.' What...they expected a troop of heroes was going to go back up Hood with them in the face of blizzard conditions!? They should have stayed together.
-They left gear, including a sleeping bag, in one of their caves. Abandon gear, when all they had to do was descend the easy, southern slopes from their cave to Timberline Lodge ski area?
-They tried to find the ski area in a whiteout. That area below the southwest gullies is a vast, white plain. If they didn't have a compass or pre-programmed GPS (and there's no mention that they did) that was hopeless in 80mph ground blizzards.
-Also, they 'bought a lot of gear at REI' prior to making their climb. If they were experienced glacial mountaineers, they wouldn't have needed to buy much. They'd aleady own it.

Unfortunatley, the other two will be found dead, probably well off the fall-line, straight-down route that leads from the summit snow cave to Timberline Meadows ski area.

This was a tragedy, but it was entirely preventable.

By: utahliberal435 on December 17, 2006 at 07:44pm
Flag:

[janx]

72. Now is not the time...

Edited to add: It does not surprise me in the least.

[TriMetFan]

104. Sorry about your cousin.

Is that about the time when they started making a big deal about people using The Mountain Locater Unit? And you are right the unit only cost $5 bucks to rent. What better and cheap insurance that would have made for these guys. The sad thing is that the families of these men are going to be the ones that are going to have to live for the rest of their lives wondering if only the guys would have had one of these Units, what the out come would have been.
For the people that don't live here in the Pacific Northwest MT. Hood is a bitch of a mountain any time of the year. We have even lost people during the summer to that mountain.

[BrotherBuzz]

105. The MLU debate has been ongoing for over a decade

It's even mentioned in the Oregon Legislative Assembly House Bill 3434 in 1995.

http://www.leg.state.or.us/95reg/measures/hb3400.dir/hb3434.en.html

[kestrel91316]

37. One thing everybody needs to remember: ALL THE RESCUERS

ARE CLIMBERS, TOO.

Mountain rescue groups are composed of SERIOUS CLIMBERS who volunteer their time and energy in just these circumstances, because they know it could just as easily be them out there.

The people out on Hood right now traipsing around aren't local cops or firefighters doing paid work. They are by and large VOLUNTEERS who deserve a big hand for RISKING THEIR OWN LIVES.

They love climbing, just like the three missing men do. Mountain rescue is just one more way to get the adrenaline fix, BTW.

[NMDemDist2]

42. bingo! n/t

[janx]

50. "Mountain rescue is just one more way to get the adrenaline fix,"

No.

Yes, they are heroes, and of course they're climbers; my God, look at what they are doing! But they're not doing it for the adrenaline fix.

[kestrel91316]

I didn't say they were. But it's a bonus.

They are doing it because that's what climbers do - help each other. Because as we've seen, the AVERAGE person either condemns those three and says they had it coming and tough luck, or they don't have the experience to go up there and help if they ARE sympathetic.

[Wcross]

14. "And a word for the rescuers...they are really heroic people."

A big AMEN to that. These people put their own lives on the line to save others. They don't do it for the money, they don't do it for the fame. They do it because it needs to be done. My hats off to all rescue/fire/paramedic type people. Thank you all, you are heroes.

[hlthe2b]

56. That's right.. As a Coloradoan... we have become somewhat

more accustomed to the sad "non-survival" stories from the high country than do people in many other areas of the country. But, even in July, we have accounts of people swept off mountain faces (even those "14ers" not considered to be "technical" climbs) by unforeseen hail storms. My first weekend back here after a short work stint on the East Coast was memorable in that a young girl was struck by lightening on a mountain hike, broke both legs, was partially paralyzed and still managed to drag herself several miles down until rescuers found her. This was just a short two hour hike for her--one she completed nearly every weekend, both with others and by herself....

Wilderness or even well-established public hiking trails CAN become inherently risky... Locals know to train for survival--newcomers often do not--but even that can not always avoid a potentially fatal encounter.

[LiberalFighter]

141. On news tonite they found their camera

Their clothing was not apparently appropriate for the trek

[onecent]

10. I'm very very sad about this. I don't understand the passion behind

mountain climbing, and I don't understand the passion behind nascar.

They died doing something they loved....Don't suppose that makes dying any easier....but it kind of makes me wish I had a stronger passion for something.

[NoodleyAppendage]

76. "They died doing something they loved..." I guess their families wish they took up fishing.

It is inherently selfish for one to engage in a NEEDLESSLY dangerous HOBBY when the person has a family to care for. If mountain climbing was their job, then so be it. But, none were forced to climb by economic necessity, duress, or other excusable reason. Their reason was purely selfish.

J

[piedmont]

89. NEEDLESS, risky activities now verbotin for parents!!!

In addition to mountain climbing, I say we ban parents from the following:
skiing
motorcycle riding
surfing
swimming
playing contact sports
taking any unnecessary trips by car
riding horses
skateboarding

They all carry a risk of death, and they're all unnecessary. You thrill seekers out there will just have to bore yourselves to death.

[NoodleyAppendage]

97. At least with those you list there's a reasonable chance of being saved.

Last time I checked, it wasn't necessary to pull together a massive search and considerable resources for a skateboarding accident.

All of life is a risk, but climbing mountains in the wintertime is "stacking the deck" in one's disfavor. Same could be said of crocodile wrestling, extreme sports, Russian roulette, etc.

J

[mountainvue]

127. You might also want to add drinking and recreational

drug use to that list.

[Suich]

12. Oh, shoot.

I thought they were going to be ok.

[brook]

16. I think we all did.

Makes it harder to accept...there was absolutely reason for hope.

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. self delete

[classof56]

18. Oh, damn! I'm so sorry to hear this.

Had held out hope they'd be found and okay but with each passing day and the awful weather we've been having, I feared the worst.

Here in Central Oregon it's a beautiful sunny day and the snow-covered mountain peaks are glorious. I don't have to drive too far to see Hood in the distance. Just so sad to know the tragedy taking place on her slopes.

Lots of negative stuff going on here in the Northwest, from the Kim family to the climbers to some fishing vessel accidents offshore and their occupants missing.

May we all treasure life more, knowing how uncertain the future can be.

Blessings.

[bigdarryl]

21. Terrible out come hate to say it the other two probably didn't survive either

I was just looking at CNN and one expert made the point that with the weather so clear and all the rescue teams out there the other two would try and send some signal out to be noticed the fact that there's no sign of them is very discouraging.

[brook]

25. I'm afraid you're right.

With all the activity I saw up there today, it's hard to imagine the other two climbers wouldn't have somehow attracted attention. Please God, there will be sun on the mountain tomorrow. The families must be in such pain.

[liberalhistorian]

34. Brian Hall is from Rapid City, where I live. His parents live here

as well and they've been in OR awaiting word with the other families. The local paper has been interviewing them, my heart just breaks for them.

[janx]

36. There's supposed to be sun for the next two days,

along with rising temperatures (just hope the temps don't rise too high so as to cause shifts/melting, etc.).

In any case, CNN just interviewed a guy who survived being stranded on Hood for 17 days--back in the 70s. Consider what the sport of climbing was like then.

There's still room for hope.

[karlrschneider]

33. Sadly, chances are the other 2 won't be found until spring thaws.

...

[NMDemDist2]

44. I"m hoping for the best

but I fear you are correct :cry:

[Raine]

49. Sad news

sympathy to the family and friends and all who loved him.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. One climber found dead

9 minutes ago

HOOD RIVER, Ore. - Rescuers looking for three missing climbers on Mount Hood found a body Sunday in the area where one of the climbers made a distress call a week ago, authorities said.

The dead climber had not yet been identified, said Pete Hughes, a spokesman for the Hood River County Sheriff's Office. The victim was believed to be one of the three missing climbers, authorities said.

The body was found in a second snow cave near another snow cave where rescuers found a sleeping bag, ice axes and rope, officials said.

Rescuers would be coming off the mountain early Sunday evening and will review the information gathered today before making tomorrow's plans, said Capt. Mike Braibish, spokesman for the Oregon National Guard.

more . . .
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061218/ap_on_re_us/missing_climbers

[mountainvue]

61. This is terrible. I feel so bad for the families.

Every year at Christmas they will be thinking of this.

[Evergreen Emerald]

65. that is very sad news

I was holding out such hope. I am so sorry for the families.

[superconnected]

71. It's kinda hard to feel sorry for mtn climbers dying because of inclement

weather in the pacific nw this month. I live here. It's just too hard to think anything but "go Darwin!" on this one.

I mean come on, does anyone else on the board KNOW how much inclement weather we've been having?

[janx]

73. I do. See my post #66.

;-)

[NoodleyAppendage]

74. Humankind's hubris in the face of Nature.

While I mourn for the family members of the dead men, I feel no deep regrets for their own deaths.

It is FOOLISH to climb a mountain in inclimate weather regardless of one's level of professionalism. Mountain climbing is inherently dangerous and those who choose to take up the HOBBY do so of their own accord. Frankly, I think it is selfish to put oneself in a NEEDLESSLY dangerous situation, knowing that one outcome might be your death and the resulting sorrow visited upon your surviving family members.

Were these climbers thinking of their children and wives when they decided to undertake a dangerous climb during a typically unpredictable season?? I think not.

J

[Critters2]

82. I've noticed, and I've been in Iowa or Illinois all this autmun.

What, these guys didn't have cable?

What were they thinking?!

[BrightKnight]

98. You can't live life while hiding under the bead.

They had probably been planning and looking foreword to the trip for a long time. Sometimes we see what we want to see. That storm system surprised a lot of people.

They were all from out of state. Texas has had a very mild winter this year. They would not necessarily have known that the weather patters were unusual in the Northwest. That information is not published in the weather forecast.

[Critters2]

99. It was all over the Weather Channel--unusually cold and wet in the Pacific Northwest

Again, all it took was basic cable.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

122. Do you really think they didn't check the forecast?

Do you?

[proud2BlibKansan]

102. It is December

How hard is that to comprehend? It snows in December. It snows worse on mountains in December.

I don't see how being from out of state makes any difference. I live in flat Kansas and I know better than to climb a mountain in December.

[Critters2]

106. Thank you.....and let me say, for the record, Proud2belib has NEVER

hidden under a bead. Not in Kansas, nor anywhere else.

[shrike]

135. A guy died on Mt. Washington, N.H., in August

about 15 years ago. Weather got bad all of a sudden, and if he'd had a proper hat, they said, he'd probably have kept warm enough to survive.

Mountains are freaky things. You just don't know.

[TankLV]

93. aparently three fewer than would have been benificial to their well being...

[blitzen]

95. I know, I was in Salem most of Nov.

it was one huge rain/windstorm after another...with very little clear weather in between

[superconnected]

78. Turns out they're from out of state so at least that helps me think

they may not have known what they were in for. Of course they wen't up right after the last snow storm where the whole puget sound that's not even up in the mountians didn't recover from snow and ice for days.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061218/ap_on_re_us/missing_climbers

"There has been no communication from Kelly James, 48, of Dallas, 37-year-old Brian Hall of Dallas, or 36-year-old Jerry "Nikko" Cooke of New York City since Dec. 10, when James used his cell phone to call his family. He told them he was sheltering in a snow cave while his companions started back down the mountain, apparently to get help for him."

[tblue37]

94. That makes it sound as though Kelley is probably the one they

found in the snow cave, doesn't it?

[hayu_lol]

107. The goverment of the state of Oregon has had many conversations...

and come up with proposed legislation about mountain rescues and mountain fatalities over the past few years. Considered were the risks to rescue crews(yes, even the expense has been discussed in great detail). As yet, no concensus has been reached.

It was considered for a time to close the mountain(Hood)to climbers except under very special conditions. Problem is that many people would just go ahead and climb without notifying authorities. That makes rescue efforts almost impossible.

Choppers are a big part of rescue, unfortunately because of winds and the high altitude, they many times cannot be used. There was much talk about making rescued climbers pay the costs of the rescue. Just one of these intense searches is very expensive and ties up public safety officials from other duties.

No matter what laws are finally passed concerning this, many people, and some of those very experienced, will go ahead and climb anyway. You cannot stop people from doing what they really love to do. Tourists frequently attempt a day's outing on Hood and get into trouble.

Bottom line is: If you get into trouble, chances are that rescue efforts will be too late to help. These guys were both experienced and loved climbing. Their families obviously supported this hobby. They went to the edge, probably not the first time, and this time were overwhelmed by nature. I think that we can all agree that we grieve their loss along with their families.

Sometimes the best laid plans go awry. It went wrong for this group this time. There will be other groups.

[Norquist Nemesis]

115. It was Kelly James--just in on AP

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MISSING_CLIMBERS?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME
Mt. Hood Body Identified As Kelly James

....

I had the same reaction after listening to CNN last night. It was as if they knew and couldn't officially say, but listening to his friend (the one who taught him) it really sounded like it was him. They kept referring to the fact that the one left behind was the one who was injured. Then, that the injured climber was KJ.

:( :( :(

[northzax]

121. not a good excuse

James has 14 Rainier summits under his belt. but from what I can tell, this is a case of everything that can go wrong going wrong at the same time.

[Thickasabrick]

109. All of this could have been avoided if they had rented a $5

locater unit? That is beyond stupid. If climbers refuse to rent the locater units, they should be forced to put down a third of what typical rescue costs would be.

[proud2BlibKansan]

137. I agree

I have been called tacky but I just can't help but see how preventable this was.

[Jennicut]

112. This is very sad news, the families really had hope they would all be found alive

I think it is appropriate to discuss helping pay for rescue attempts but right now can't we just let the family of Mr. Kelley mourn? I think eventually there will be a law about having to contribute to a fund for rescue attempts whenever you climb a mountain in Oregon and other places. Obviously they made a mistake with out having trackers but no one needs to rub salt in these families wounds right now. They know it was a mistake and hopefully other mountain climbers will learn this very important lesson of carrying trackers with them whenever they go climbing.

[lastliberalintexas]

116. The Darfur banner should put this in perspective

Is this sad for his family? Certainly. But for society? Not so much. He was a free person with enough money to engage in a hobby like mountain climbing, so one should assume he also had enough money for food, clothing and shelter.


Unlike most in Darfur, who are completely ignored by the 24 hour US media.

I guess Stalin's quote is true- The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic. :(

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

117. "they knew the risks."

Apparently the "they knew the risks, I don't feel sorry for them" shitheads don't know what they're talking about, again.

They knew the risks, yeah, and the risks were fine. Hundreds if not thousands of people, experienced and inexperienced, summit Mt. Hood every year, all year long.

These guys didn't die because they were stupid, the died because one of them got injured, which could happen to anybody anytime.

[LisaM]

123. The storm was predicted

And, they set off just after the whole James Kim thing, so they must have been aware of the weather conditions.

I know a guy who went skiing in BC in March and died in an avalanche. He, too, had two young daughters. I haven't seen his wife since the funeral. She was a basket case then, and apparently got worse after. I don't particularly understand taking these huge risks when you have a young family.

[brentspeak]

125. There's no excuse for taking these kinds of risks. Total hubris.

[LisaM]

126. I agree, and yet I think the people who do it are addicted

I've actually read that it's a certain kind of ADD, taking extreme sports risks.

[BrightKnight]

132. It is just a sport like skiing, kayaking or scuba diving.

I drop down double black ski runs without much thought. To someone that had never skied before I would probably appear insane. It is a bit dangerous but that is not why I do it. I just like to ski.
----
None of the people in the group were young. They may have had some bad luck and or made bad decisions. They were not lunatic adrenalin junkies.

[LisaM]

133. LOL, to me, "just a sport" means softball!

I have kayaked, and I hike a little, but never even in the rain. I can't even imagine scuba diving! I like to swim, but in a pool, doing laps. Which would probably bore some people to tears.

[shrike]

134. Even the best climbers can run into the unexpected

When I was in Alaska three brothers died on the presidential mountain range. They were considered amongst the best in the area, and the eldest brother, who led the group, was so safety conscious as to be considered nerdy. Other members of that climbing community said he was the one, the cool head, that you always wanted to have with you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

129. No it wasn't.

Not of this magnitude, and not before they were scheduled to be back down off the mountain.

"And, they set off just after the whole James Kim thing, so they must have been aware of the weather conditions."

Baloney, it was a completely different weather system then the one that hit the Kims. The only thing they had in common was that they were both in Oregon, and it got a lot of media attention.

[LisaM]

131. I live in Seattle and they predicted bad weather all last week

We've been rocked by front after front since Thanksgiving. But, even here on this thread, there are conflicting stories of what weather reports they received.

[Eugene]

128. AP: 2 Mount Hood Climbers May Have Fallen

2 Mount Hood Climbers May Have Fallen


Monday December 18, 2006 7:46 PM

AP Photo NY117

By JOSEPH B. FRAZIER

Associated Press Writer

HOOD RIVER, Ore. (AP) - Two climbers missing on Mount Hood may have fallen
on a steep slope on their way down Oregon's highest mountain, authorities
said Monday as the search resumed on a clear day and a team prepared to
retrieve the body of a third climber found dead in a snow cave.

Air crews will survey the area because avalanche conditions make it unsafe
for ground crews to head through a treacherous side of the mountain known
as "the gullies," where climbers have fallen in the past, said Sheriff
Joe Wampler.

-snip-

Full article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6288969,00.html

[depakid]

130. They may not find these guys until next spring

If they've fallen into "the gullies" they'll have long since been covered with snow.

Searchers will scour the Gullies by air; too treacherous to search by foot

Searchers today plan to focus on a section of Mount Hood called the Gullies, located between Eliot and Newton Clark glaciers. That stretch is unstable and avalanche-prone so searchers will scour the region by air.

The Northwest Weather and Avalanche Center says avalanche danger for elevations above 6,000 feet on the mountain are "considerable."

http://www.oregonlive.com/newslogs/oregonian/index.ssf?/mtlogs/olive_oregonian_news/archives/2006_12.html#216349