Aiding Needy Students - by Ending Pell?

[central scrutinizer]

http://insidehighered.com/news/2006/12/06/tax

excerpt:

A hearing Tuesday before the Senate Finance Committee, on the effectiveness and validity of “tax exemptions and incentives for higher education,” could have gone in many different directions.

The senator who chaired the hearing, Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa), has spent much of the last year examining excessive executive compensation and other perceived abuses by nonprofit organizations, including colleges and universities. One of the witnesses was the author of a recent book on the admission of often underqualified rich kids by elite public and private research universities. Questions about the tax-exempt status of big-time college sports have been much in the air. And underpinning the Finance Committee’s announcement of the hearing last week was the suggestion that federal tax breaks for college costs have led colleges and universities to raise their tuition excessively.

snip

Susan M. Dynarski, an associate professor of public policy at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government, suggested that the government’s student grant programs, including the Pell Grant Program, and the various federal tax breaks for college costs be merged into one mammoth tax credit program.

snip

Given that the Pell Grant Program is the bedrock federal financial aid program, cherished by advocates for low-income students, Dynarski’s proposal may have sounded like nails on a chalkboard to the college lobbyists in the hearing room, some of whom looked visibly uncomfortable as Dynarski discussed it. “Talk of ending Pell is like taking a Louisville Slugger to a hornet’s nest, in terms of what it’d stir up,” said Travis Reindl of Jobs for the Future, where he directs a program on college access and affordability sponsored by the Lumina Foundation for Education.

end excerpt

Why is it so hard to understand that tax credits only work if the family makes enough money to pay taxes? That is the trouble with all of these tax-credit plans for education, health care, etc. The neediest people never qualify for these benefits.

[NoodleBoy]

1. with youth turnout up this high this election, I'm surprised anyone would suggest this

[qwlauren35]

7. I Can See It.

But I think the solution is a crappy one. We've seen similar issues with car insurance rentals and repairs, with Medicare/Medicaid bills, etc. Whenever the federal government is perceived to be paying for something, everyone wants to bilk them a bit more.

Is the answer for the federal government to stop paying for things? NO, duh.

But I'm not always sure what the answer is to address systematic fraud. I know that the military addressed the issue by purchasing "off-the-shelf" products. And the automotive industry forces cost control through an intensive series of bidding wars. Maybe that's what the government needs to do.

I think it would work. Have the government identify a set of schools that meet both criteria for excellence AND reasonable tuition. Students can go to THOSE schools, and only those schools with Pell Grants. The "theory" would be that such schools would see a rise in application rates and attendance, and schools not on the list would see a decline. If schools wanted on the list, they would have to drop their tuition.

Frankly, I think Medicaid and Medicare should work similarly... but of course, the downside would be that services and service quality would be reduced in order to get on the list. The automotive industry prevents this with routine audits, and drops suppliers from the list if their quality drops.

I can see the government failing to follow through on this because of lobby pressure...

Sometimes, it's really sad to see how greedy people shaft the government, and in the end, it is all of us who aren't "exceedingly wealthy" who suffer. If you can't afford to pay medical expenses out of pocket, or can't afford anything but an HMO, (if coverage at all), or if you can't afford college out of pocket, or can't afford anything but a state college or community college (if college at all), then it's equally likely that you are feeling the pinch of being a taxpayer who sees taxes rise to cover the cost of fraud and waste.

Isn't it ironic that those who can most easily afford to be taxed are the ones who pay the least tax. And equally ironic that those who pay the least taxes because of loopholes are the ones who can afford to lobby the government.

So often we want to believe that the US does not operate with the levels of graft and corruption that we hear about in 3rd world countries with palm-greasing at the local level. But at the federal level, it is rather overt.

Sometimes, I am so ashamed of this country...

[NoodleBoy]

22. I'm sorry, are you saying students who want to get an education are greedy?

I've gotten Pell grants. Does my desire to get a degree a sign of my greed?

And, Pell grants don't usually cover the entire cost, except for students who are very good and whose parents don't make that much money. And it's not like they're taking this money and buying "shiny new Cadillacs" with them-- probably ALL of it goes into the University system for tuition, boarding, books, etc.

The Arizona constitution says that public education should be "free or as nearly free as possible" when it comes to higher education. If the people who wrote that decades before the new deal recognized that not only is public college a good idea, but helping people who might not otherwise be able to afford it an even better idea, and keeping them in their home state to do it, then it's pretty obviously something everyone except hardcore anti-government, anti-education freaks and lobbyists for loan companies can agree on.

[qwlauren35]

27. NO! Not the STUDENTS!!!

I'm talking about the administration that sees students with Pell Grants as a way to bring in more money, and choose to raise the tuition.

Similar to hospital management companies who load up on extras because they will get paid for by Medicare or Medicaid.

And the people who need the education/services/etc, as well as taxpayers, end up with the shaft.

I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer.

[bluestateguy]

2. This is the wrong debate to be having

The debate should be about making public university tuition free. That will force the private schools to lower their tuitions to compete.

[acmejack]

5. Education should be free.

Everyone is supposed to become "more educated"-That is the panacea to all of our problems caused by the "Flattening of the World caused by their insatiable greed. Yet University tuitions are soaring, while incomes are dropping. Get more educated, but don't think of getting a loan, but in case you do, remember how we have amended the bankruptcy system!

[bluestateguy]

6. I'd like to add one thing

And that is that I am all for selective admissions based on merit. College is not for everybody, and not everybody is qualified to go to the University of Wisconsin, for example. But a student who works hard enough and achieves well enough to be able to attend the university of his/her choice should not be prohibited from doing so based on cost.

[primavera]

11. Hear, hear!

Strange the way none of these guys ever question the fact that it's now costing as much as $50,000/year to attend many private schools. And they seriously think a couple of hundred bucks in a tax break is going to help that? Oh goodie - $200 down, only $49,800 more to go.

[acmejack]

19. You can make a downpayment on a new textbook.

[Fovea]

20. Absolutely!!!

and we need to get on it, before India, China, and the EU hands us our lunch.

[notadmblnd]

3. you got that right...

I lost my job 3 years ago. Been going to college one class at a time. Why? Because that's the only way I can pay for it. Being a widow living on SS survivors benefits and a small pension, I have too much income to qualify for any grants. Student loans are out of the question for me. I've been out of debt since 2001 and it's going to stay that way.

[acmejack]

4. Let us give you a hand...

By kicking you in the ass! Compassionate conservatism strikes again. It is just like the inequity in itemizing medical deductions or itemizing your taxes period. It is BULLSHIT, the system is loaded against the low income citizens always hs been always will be. It has only changed when the elite become fearful enough of civil unrest that they are willing to act! The New Deal certainly was not motivated by Governmental generosity, despite what they would let you think, it was the result of the fear of the upper class. They are terrified of "The Rabble" and we would do well to always remember that fact.

[aquart]

15. Guilotine?

[AzDar]

8. Not to mention the fact that relying on 'tax-credits' is a risky endeavor with

this Government. A friend just told me a few days ago, that the 'Do-Nothing' Congress currently seated has so far FAILED to renew current tax-credits for college tuition! She said unless they act quickly, millions of families (herself, a single-mom, included) stand to lose thousands of dollars that they should be credited for 2006.
Gotta get that War funding through, though.
Nauseating.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

9. Aiding the military by ending Pell.

The least they can do is be honest about their goals.

[mzmolly]

10. I had a friend on public assistance, a single Mom who worked her way

off "the system" via Pell grants. She would not have been able to do that, without them. She also had help with daycare under the Clinton administration and after school programs etc. In today's climate, she would not be able to succeed.

[superconnected]

12. gotta keep the poor, poor. You do it by making sure they're

uneducated.

After all the money spent on the failed iraq war, and all the money they are still asking for it, we CAN afford the pell grants.

[Bridget Burke]

13. Hey, if they want to go to college....

Let them "earn" it by serving in the military first.

[superconnected]

16. Of course you're being sarcastic.

[Bridget Burke]

25. Yes!

Sorry, sometimes it's hard to tell....

[KamaAina]

14. Tick... tick... tick... Grassley's chairmanship ends in a couple of weeks

hopefully before he can actually put any of this bilge into action.

See why it was so important for us to win?

[Gormy Cuss]

17. Dynarski's proposal extends tax 'credits' even to families who owe no taxes and the proposal is

to pay the credit at the time tuition is due, not tax time. Theoretically this would make it only a difference in the way the grant was administered. Of course, that's just the theory.

Cynthia J. Littlefield's, director of federal relations for the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities, had a similar reaction and I would wager that she is better informed on this issue than I am: “The notion that everything is so complicated and we just have to roll it into one system is too simplistic. It’s our experience that when you consolidate programs, often the value and intent of some of the programs that were consolidated are totally lost,” Littlefield said. And often, she said, the amount of money available for the combined programs declines, too.

[Ecumenist]

18. WTF??!!!

Pell Grants enable millions of families to send their children to school. If this isn't a clear picture of what this "government" is actually pushing for in obliterating the middle class and grinding their heels into the faces of the poorest folks in society, I don't know what is.

[acmejack]

21. Their contempt for us is palpable.

They never miss an opportunity to display it either. Be it the smallest thing "Democrat" Party to something like this. Making people live on $5.15 an hour, but expect their raise. They are offended that they might actually have to work an ordinary five day week, it is apparent they think themselves unique among us.

[primavera]

23. I wonder how many kids you could send to college...

... for what we spend torturing and murdering civilians in Iraq in just a single day?

[primavera]

24. Looks like about 17 million 4 year scholarships...

... according to the following link:

http://costofwar.com/index-college-scholarships.html

[DemGa]

26. If you can make it in college you should have the chance

It's an absolute travesty to miss out on higher education. Fund it!!!!

[area51]

28. Grassley

I think Grassley was involved in that insane republinazi bankruptcy bill.