Green Light for GM Trees

[leftchick]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/539304D5-AFA7-4A45-9429-2FFD793B1164.htm

<snip>
UN diplomats have reached an agreement in principle on Tuesday to include genetically-modified trees in forests planted for the specific purpose of soaking up greenhouse gases.


The agreement made at an Environmental summit in Milan will allow scientists to develop fast-growing trees with a maximized capability of storing carbon dioxide, one of the gases thought likely to be responsible for the heating of the earth's atmosphere.


Under the terms of the UN Kyoto Protocol on global warming, rich countries will be able to plant forests in the developing world and offset the amount of gas absorbed against their own greenhouse emissions.

The agreement in principle was scheduled to be sent to environment ministers at a meeting of the 180-nation UN Framework Convention on Climate Change here this week.

...... omg....:wow:

[neuvocat]

1. Do you see a negative impact from this?

I don't gauge your reaction as overwhelmingly positive.

[htuttle]

2. JUST PLEASE, PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S SOMETHING THAT EATS IT!

Otherwise, we're looking at Kudzu from Hell!

[pinto]

4. that I get...n/t

[pinto]

3. I'd like to know more about the GM debate...

I've heard the "highlights" especially about GM modified food or feed for livestock, and they make sense...some uses appear more benign, especially tress that absorb higher levels of CO2.....

Is the argument here, we are interfering with natural processes?

Unintended consequences? (This one make me stop, 'cause there's ALWAYS unintended consequences, one of those Murphy's Law things)

Is it "developed" vs "undeveloped" cultures?

Or maybe, why develop GM "CO2" trees when we can modify our behavior towards the same end(decrease car emissions)?

[J B]

6. Basically figuring we shouldn't mess with food.

But humans have been messing with food for a very long time. The means have just been cruder. Like, cross-fertilization.

[J B]

5. This is an idea that was done in a fictional book I've translated.

The setting is from Mobile Suit Gundam, an anime, where war breaks out between elitists on Earth and blue collar people (most of humanity) who got pushed out to space to solve (legitimate and crushing) overpopulation and environmental damage. GM trees were a key part of rebuilding Earth's biosphere, leading to some pretty damn big and thick forests within 20 years of starting in earnest.

Seemed interesting.

[punpirate]

7. I wonder who thought this one up....

Did it come from within the UN, or were American lobbyists writing substantial portions of this proposal?

What is the actual advantage of GM trees over typical trees (after all, all plants engage in carbon fixing through photosynthesis)? Is there a possibility of gene transfer through cross-fertilization, and if so, will this give US multinationals legal control over all trees with the modified genes, as has been asserted by corporations such as Monsanto with other GM agricultural crops? Will the companies supplying such trees to developing countries assert rights of ownership to such forests, or the products therefrom, such as raw lumber?

I guess one can see where I'm going with this--it sounds a lot more like a ploy than an effective strategy. Another worry implicit in this is the ancillary effects of such GM trees. Do they have the ability to crowd out the natural trees and plants of the host ecosystem? If they grow faster, they will certainly have a higher water use than existing forests (and what happens if these forests are to go into local ecosystems that are already short on water)?

And, the system trades credits, rather than mandates reductions, which simply enables continued significant use of fossil fuels by developed countries--particularly by the US.

Somehow, this one doesn't pass the smell test.

Cheers.

[pinto]

9. higher water use is a good point

(this from a CA rez) and the possibility of rampant growth competition with native species. And the pssibility of some kind of we plant em you cut em plantation scheme. I just hate when research science gets derailed to other ends.....see Einstein, et al.

[ConcernedCanuk]

8. Seems like we have more idiots in the UN than I thought -

. . mind you , most of the people that voted on this thing have no idea what they are doing

I did a study on what is known as "BioRemediation" - that's getting nature to "fix" pollution problems

My specific research was done on railyards and gas stations, infamous for leakage and pollution

Two very natural and appealing solutions I discovered

Poplar trees and alfalfa

Apparently they both gobble up these pollutants and turn them into - gee whiz - OXYGEN !!

I think that they are fools to NOT consider natural existing plants and just decide to "make" something to "fix" whatever us humans have fecked up now --

AND - Poplar trees grow fast, and are excellent for lumber and firewood

For those that do not know - Poplar is on the "low" end of the "hardwood" scale

Clean burning as firewood, and has long been forecast as the next major lumber scource

Bottom line

- this "genetically modified" stuff has me worried when it comes to Momma Nature

If someone want to modify THEMSELVES genetically,

ya know, - - take parts off, put parts on - ok, I guess.

BUT PUULEEEEAZE

- don't feck around with the food chain ??

[fabius]

10. Read "The Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan

Yes we are interfering with natural systems. This is not like just breeding apples or roses from natural strains. There are unintended consequences.

The book talks about the co-evolution of specific species of domesticated plants with humans in the context of our history (three specific species) then it goes on to talk about GM potatoes. By Monsanto. It is NOT alarmist and shrill, it is a very nuanced and well informed discussion, recognizing the potential advantages of the GM variety. Still, on balance I think he's generally against it. And he points out some specific long-term consequences like super bugs that will inevitably evolve to overcome the built in bt (bacillus thuringensis) pesticide. That will eventually render unusable to all the world one of the most common and useful organic insecticides.

The most chilling line in the book by a Monsanto executive: "Trust us".

[w4rma]

11. A science fiction world where all the wildlife is artificial and grown in

a vat. Is that where Earth is heading? :(

[NickB79]

12. I have no problem with it, provided certain safety measures are used

There are some amazing species of trees found in South America and Southeast Asia that put on amazing rates of growth in even poor soil. They put hybrid poplars and willows currently used in the US for windbreaks and pulp production to shame; some can put on 15+ ft of growth in a single year compared to the 5-7 ft of growth poplars do. Engineering genes from these trees into more cold and drought-tolerant species could be very promising. The one thing they MUST do, though, is ensure that these trees are unable to reproduce and spread away from their original plantings. Planting only female trees, insertion of terminator genes, or directed chromosome doubling could all be used to ensure they are reproductively isolated from surrounding forest trees. There are already trial plantings of genetically engineered BT Montery pines in New Zealand underway that produce BT pesticide in their needles to stop insect infestations, as well as Roundup-Ready poplar and willow.