Lieberman Is Hit Hardest By Decision

[Khephra]

snip......

"I was surprised," Mr. Lieberman said of Mr. Gore's decision as he arrived at a fund-raiser on West 22nd Street in Manhattan last night with his wife, Hadassah.

Mr. Lieberman went on to assert that he was staying in the race, and he took a swipe at Dr. Dean, saying, "But I am more determined than ever to continue to fight for what's right for my party and my country and to move both my party and my country forward, not backward."

Pressed by reporters on whether Mr. Gore's endorsement mattered, he chuckled and said, "More tomorrow."

In a written statement earlier in the day, Mr. Lieberman pointedly noted how he had remained loyal to Mr. Gore. "I have a lot of respect for Al Gore," he said. "That is why I kept my promise not to run if he did."

Even after Mr. Gore's intentions had spread through news reports early yesterday evening, Jano Cabrera, Mr. Lieberman's chief spokesman, said that Mr. Gore had not called his onetime running mate to alert him. But Mr. Lieberman's aides said the campaign was not caught completely by surprise because officials had been hearing rumors of an endorsement of Dr. Dean for days.


more............

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/09/politics/campaigns/09LIEB.html?ex=1071550800&en=d974deefd877bf9d&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

[Syrinx]

1. I still haven't deciphered the thinking...

That made Gore chose Lieberman as his running mate in the first place.

[SharonAnn]

12. My thinking has always been this:

1. Florida electoral votes

2. Trying to separate himself from Clinton's alleged "immorality" by aligning himself with a "moral" running mate.

[Josh]

39. You are correct on both counts -

and 2000 was a lot different than 2004 will be.

Let's not forget that the media made a huge deal out of this. They said it 'remade' and 'focussed' Gore's campaign. Lieberman brought Gore a ton of good news stories just when he needed them.

Also, it was before Lieberman came out publicly and said he disagreed with the issues Gore ran his campaign on. That, more than anything else (and I liked Lieberman a lot during the 2000 campaign) is why Lieberman was never in the running for Gore's endorsement. Gore even said way back before he opted out of the race that Joe's pledge didn't have to stand, that Lieberman was free to run whether Gore did or not.

[the_boxer_]

51. Me neither...

:eyes:

The did win however.

[UpInArms]

2. I can only

imagine how satisfying it was for Gore to go for Dean over Holy Joe - Lieberman has shown himself to be everything that we do not want in office (with the exception of not be *Co).

[Scott Lee]

3. "Forward, not backward" says DINO Lieberman

Unreal. How can this guy face himself in the morning.

[Ediacara]

6. it reminds me of kang and kodos running for president

[Enraged_Ape]

33. LOL

I'd vote for Kang and Kodos over the BFEE any day.

[foo_bar]

60. always whirling, whirling, whirling

towards freedom!

[Cronus Protagonist]

4. Schweet. Al, you got to him. Payback's a bitch, Joe.

FUCK BUSH Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[Myra]

17. It was schweet. Holy Joe got burned good 'n' proper. And in public.

By finding out about Gore's decision just like we did. He doesn't deserve to be in the loop; he ain't in the loop.

"The Lieberman campaign issued a terse statement Monday, saying, "I was proud to have been chosen by Al Gore in 2000 to be a heartbeat away from the presidency," and added, "I have a lot of respect for Al Gore - that is why I kept my promise not to run if he did. Ultimately, the voters will make the determination and I will continue to make my case about taking our party and nation forward."

Lieberman spokesman Jano Cabrera said Gore did not tell the Connecticut senator about the endorsement."

(BURN!)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031209/ap_on_el_pr/gore_dean&cid=694&ncid=716

I know everyone's seen it; just savoring it.
I enjoy those rare occasions when a backstabber get what he deserves.

[Skidmore]

61. I have always been amazed at Joe's audacity at

trying to market himself as torchbearer for the Clinton/Gore economy. Those policies were not developed by him. He went along for the ride and now thinks he deserves to keep the gravy train.

[Freddie Stubbs]

5. Lieberman's campaign never really took off anyway

This hurts Gephardt, Kerry, Edwards, and Clark. This simply adds to the perception (a correct one) that Dean is unstoppable.

[BenFranklinUSA]

31. This is hardly a suprising move by Gore...

...after all, Lieb was added to the Gore ticket in order to "conservitize".

For Lieberman, this is a very small plus, as it further solidifies him as the "moderate" (whatever good that'll do him, but its want he wants.)

Correct, the stragglers in this race are the losers here.

But I think to some degree Dean also loses, because he is now identified with Gore's negatives, which he doesn't need.

Dean was doing just fine without Gore. I wish it would have stayed that way.

(1c)(1c)

[Carolina]

66. exactly, Ben

you said it correctly: Gore's negatives! I repeatedly posted last night that this whole endorsement reeked because Dean was/is on a roll especially after his performance in Florida and SC. Hey, he nearly converted me and I'm for Clark.

Dean didn't need Gore and as you said was doing just fine without him. While some were jumping for joy last night, my worry then and now is that by injecting himself in the picture now, Gore makes this a referendum on Gore v Bush. The only problem is that incumbent Bush is much more powerful now especially with an even more sycophantic media. Now we'll hear all over again about serial lies, horrendous sighs, bad campaigns and heaven knows what else. Gore could actually HURT Dean. Gore's political instincts have not been the best .. tin ear, bad timing, past deference to Washington establishment. You must read Jeffrey Toobin's Too Close to Call.

Anyway, he should have stayed out of the picture and let the primaries run their course. He could have ground his axes against the DLC, DNC and Holy Joe at a later, better time or in another way.

[Bucky]

7. I disagree

Gore picked Lieberman in 2000 because he draws his support from a different section of the party than Gore does. This hurts two people more than Joe:

1. Clark, who was best positioned to be the anti-Dean, has a much shorter time frame for gathering the anti-Dean vote under his banner. Coupled with Edwards's rising numbers in South Carolina, Clark is now in a very tough make-or-break position in New Hampshire.

2. Gephardt will be killed by this. This is his coffin nail in Iowa. It was bad before. Now it's chronic.

Besides Dean, one other Democrat benefits by this: John Edwards is having a good week. He's the guy whose prospects are least tied to the party establishment. He's not establishment like Kerry or Lieberman or Gephardt; he's not antiestablishment like Clark or Dean. He's just there doing his own thing. If Clark is weakened as the antiDean, then Edwards benefits.

After New Hampshire and a few drop-outs, all eyes are going to turn to South Carolina. That's the real 3rd round for the nomination fight. If Clark can't pull off second place in New Hampshire, he's got to win South Carolina or he's done with. The only people who can win in South Carolina are Dean, Clark, and Edwards.

If Dean wins there, it's over. If Edwards wins there, he's the antiDean. If Clark wins there, he's the antiDean. But even then, it might just be too late.

I'm really quite pissed at Al Gore right now. I think he's done George Bush a bigger favor than Ralph Nader did in 2000. I hope against fear that I'm wrong.

[frank frankly]

8. i think you're right in your analysis, but wrong in worrying about Dean

Dean will beat Bush in a fair election. Don't despair.

good post.

[the_boxer_]

52. I'm so glad this gets Gephardt out of the picture....

He's worthless in my opinion.

[kysrsoze]

9. I say, "Fuck him."

Holy Joe got what he deserved.

[opihimoimoi]

11. Who convinced Joe that victory was possible??

Now that Gore went Dean, its hopeless/

It would be best Joe throws towels in the morning and calls the Dean Camp/

The Pubs would be shocked.

The Poker Table is shrinking faster than imagined.

"ALL IN"

[Raenelle]

44. He sure did get what he deserved

He was the first Senate Dem to stick the knife in Clinton's back during the heat of the VRWC. Plus he's the worst of the war-mongers, a sanctimonious subversive re secularism. Ugggghhhhhh!

[meisje]

10. OY VEY!

[Myra]

13. "Lieberman pointedly noted how he had remained loyal to Mr. Gore."!!?

If I reply to that whopper the way I'd like, the white house
will demand an apology for naughty naughty tsk tsk language.

I can't believe, after all the times Holy Joe stabbed Prez Gore
in the back, including *during* the recount, he has the gall
to say he was (gag) "loyal."

THANK YOU Prez Gore for *not* endorsing this F***ing F***.

[Enraged_Ape]

35. Loyal enough to give up his senate campaign to campaign for VP?

What a schmuck he is. Goodbye, Joey.

[ibegurpard]

14. "pointedly noted how he had remained loyal to Mr. Gore."

does that include the time he was publicly criticizing the Gore campaign for being too populist and anti-business?

[JaneQPublic]

37. Yep, in 2002, Joe said Al's populist message sunk the 2000 election

http://www.prospect.org/print/V13/15/devil3.html

When Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman, the doyen of New Democrats, met with reporters at the Democratic Leadership Council's convention in New York during the last week of July, he brought his very own autopsy of the late, not widely lamented Gore-Lieberman campaign. What tanked it, said Lieberman, wasn't Al Gore's stiffness, or the Clinton -- hatred still festering in the land, or those five conniving Supreme Court justices. It was Gore's "people versus the powerful" rhetoric, Lieberman said, which turned off middle-class independents "who don't see America as us versus them."

=========

Keep in mind Joe made these remarks at a time when Al was still considering another run in 2004

[ibegurpard]

38. and then he had the nerve

on the campaign stump to say (paraphrase) "I know I can beat Bush because Al Gore and I did it before."

[Chovexani]

72. Or how he backstabbed him during the recount circus

You know, how Holy Joe got up on tv and instead of fighting to count every vote said we should move on, it's bad for the country, blah blah blah. Watching him whine and cry about how his wittle feelings were hurt was the best thing about Gore backing Dr. Dean.

Cry me a fuckin' river Holy Joe. :nopity:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. What goes around comes around. You were no help to Gore in 2000...

...why would he endorse you for 2004?

[moondust]

16. It should come as no surprise.

Lieberman knows Gore is farther to the left than him and should have anticipated Gore's endorsement of a farther left candidate.

[Nile]

18. Good

I can not picture Kermet the frog in the White House.

[Hubert Flottz]

21. LMAO!

Let the BOOs and the BOO HOOs begin!

EDIT} Smart Americans including Al Gore, aren't taking too kindly to the people in this campaign who sucked up to BushCo for the last 3 years! These peoples voting records in congress should count and it looks like it's going to happen this next election! Ask yourself if you could vote for people who caved on so many critical issues as some of these people have! Think ROSE GARDEN! Too bad Bob Byrd can't run!

[the_boxer_]

53. LOL....

[T Bone]

19. Good, I was hoping it would flush Lieberman out of the race

I couldn't be happier than if that happened.

I think Gore doing this is a bit premature, but I have been thinking maybe he did it to just get it out of the way? Because I noticed one of the first things the CBS affiliate here did was run the spot of Lieberman grousing around with his sound byte. At least that is not happening a few days before a primary where Holy Joe could use it to drum up a little sympathy.

Go away, Joe. We don't wanna know ya.

[Myra]

26. "I was hoping it would flush Lieberman..." Like your phraseology T Bone.

:evilgrin:

Very appropriate.

[Mari333]

20. Oh for petes sake he must be living on Mars

drop out Holy Joe you never had a chance. What a maroon.

[Muddleoftheroad]

22. I don't like the potential reasons

Gore already chose Lieberman -- God knows why. However, he did. That means:

* Either his judgment is questionable, which doesn't say much for this endorsement.
* Or he doesn't stand by people, which means he's not to be counted on and, which doesn't say much for this endorsement.

He didn't even have the courtesy to call Lieberman ahead of time, which argues for version two.

[sendero]

23. Yeah, right.

I believe in standing by people who stand by me.

Lieberman never really stood by Gore, and Gore owes him no allegiance whatsoever. Spin away.

[Muddleoftheroad]

24. So that whole Vice President thing didn't mean anything?

[JNelson6563]

25. not necessarily but

ol' Joe has shown his true colors during the fascist years. While Gore the staesman has made bold and brilliant speeches against the fascist pigs running things these days all Joe can do is chide them for wanting to go "backwards".

Gore was right to flip Joe the bird this way.

Also, I think there is another message from Al here. The establishment should not choose our candidate. This is no time for worrying that establishment folks keep their well feathered nests, this is a time for big sweeping change.

While I think Clark is a good candidate and I surely see him on the ticket, my own intuition coupled with my inside info tells me it was not a few thousand folks e-mailing the General that got him to run. ;-)

Julie

[Media_Lies_Daily]

28. Tell me what Lieberman did that helped Al Gore in 2000?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

27. Or Lieberman proved himself to be disloyal, or Gore was...

...forced to take Lieberman whether he wanted to or not, or...

The list is endless, but far more feasible than your incredibly weak attempts to smear Gore.

My personal opinion? Lieberman didn't DESERVE the courtesy of a phone call fromm Gore. If Lieberman's upset by that, maybe he should look no farther than his own behavior during the 2000 election and his rather rabid behavior in support of the NeoCon War in the Middle East.

[Muddleoftheroad]

29. Don't have to smear him

I voted for him. But the fact that he didn't even call Lieberman loses my respect. I thought Gore a class act. I was wrong.

[Isere]

32. Not a class act for sure!

You are so right! Gore owed Lieberman the courtesty of a phone call. The failure to do so reflects badly on Al.

The whole dynamic of the race has changed and I don't know who will be left standing. Lieberman has always cast himself as the"anti-Dean" candidate so maybe he won't be the first to leave the race. My guess is that Gephardt will go after losing Iowa and Kerry will go after losing New Hampshire. Lieberman will hang on until the February primaries and between now and then a lot could happen.

[SOS]

56. Did Lieberman extend a phone call to Gore

before slamming Gore's NYT op-ed piece in the summer of 2002? That anti-Gore rhetoric from Lieberman was a positioning device, trying to attract big business and swing voters to his 04 bid. That strategy backfired badly for Lieberman this morning.

[the_boxer_]

55. Why?

He's still a class act. He didn't have to tell Lieberman squat.

[Muddleoftheroad]

59. Lieberman was his choice

He owed it to him.

[ibegurpard]

30. One good back-stab deserves another

Did Lieberman forget that he was part of the ticket that he was criticizing (and that WON the popular vote by over 500,000 votes) when he was making these choice comments?:

"Gore's slogan in 2000 was "The people vs. the powerful."

But that "was not the 'New Democrat approach,' was not the pro-growth approach," Lieberman said at a roundtable Sunday night with reporters. "It made it more difficult for us to gain the support of middle-class, independent voters who don't see America as 'us vs. them.' ""

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2002-07-29-dems_x.htm

[PsychoDad]

36. Tend to agree here...

Only problem is that unless pointed out to folks, most won't think of it that way.
Heck, I'd be suprised if most americans remembered who Gore was, much less Lieberman.. Given that the american public's memory is only as long as the last soundbite :silly:

[54anickel]

40. "Either his judgment is questionable"...

I would tend to disagree. This is an entirely new world we are dealing with today (thanks to BushCo.) I would question the judgement of someone who would not change to meet a new challenge. "Stay the course" makes me cringe, I was upset when Hillary used that line.

"Or he doesn't stand by people" I respect that he puts the needs of this country as a whole over loyalty to an individual. We do not need cronyism.

I'll agree on the courtesy call, but I would not judge harshly on that. I'm sure he had his reasons. I do not agree with some post here that it was meant to be a stab in the back to Joe. I would give Al the benefit of the doubt on that one.

[The Stranger]

41. Leiberman turned on his party and stands for more of what the Republicans

are about than what the Democrats are about. Stop attacking Gore for doing the right thing, supporting someone who stands for the party at the grassroots, instead of someone who stands for the Republican agenda and who constantly stabs his party in the back. Leiberman is a fucking embarrassment.

[the_boxer_]

54. Or choice three - He changed his mind like we all do.

I mean really now!

[Muddleoftheroad]

63. Then he owed Lieberman a call

He didn't call, yet he claims this was done for party unity?

[The Stranger]

65. Extremely weak.

Even assuming he didn't call, that hardly means anything regarding "party unity." Especially, to him who has turned on his own party.

[underpants]

34. Total BS He wasn't going to get the nomination anyway

Same goes for Braun, Sharpton, Kucinich (there I said it) and Gephart, though the fact that Gep is actually still considered relevant in this race is beyond me.

[PaDUer]

45. I've never trusted Lieberman..

He should've dropped out long ago. Was he serious in thinking he could win!? Gore doesn't/didn't owe him anything.

[GabysPoppy]

42. Reading the comments above

You would think Joe Lieberman is Zell Miller in costume.

Lieberman was one of my last choices for the nomination but it still adds up to Gore being classless. Lieberman was still his running mate and some professionalism is still in order.

It was both childish and vindictive and not Gore's finest hour.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

47. Agreed 100%

I love Gore, but I can't believe my President didn't have the basic courtesy and decency to at least give Joe a call before announcing the news.

It would've been an incredibly simple thing to do. As it is, all he did was hurt his own image and give ammunition to the Gore-haters and other-candidate supporters who seek to dismiss this endorsement.

DTH

[Piperay]

67. I agree and

I am glad that you said it. :thumbsup:

[Zolok]

43. Wow...vindictive much?

I could understand the Lieberman-hatred if he had a snowballs chance in hell of winning...I mean Kerry is running a distant second in N.H. and look at the shite he is getting.
But Joe is mired in what thirteenth place.?..does he really deserve to get kicked around like this??
The overwhelming answer to the above question will be "Yes..." at least as far as this DB is concerned.

[Fovea]

46. I did not think that Lieberman

was all that loyal to Gore, actually.
If he had been, Gore might have won by a higher margin, and they would have fought the Pugs illegal take over of the Government harder.

[elcondor]

48. Gore perhaps should have called him but

Lieberman also should have chosen between running for his Senate seat and running for the vice-presidency in 2000--I don't consider that very loyal or courteous. And why would Lieberman think Gore would endorse him after the criticism he's laid on Gore since 2000? And his stance on the war?!

He whines about how he "kept his promise not to run if he did"--what, did he expect an automatic endorsement from Gore if he didn't run?! Lieberman's been in this business too long to not know better.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

49. Gore's Too Good of a Man to Stoop to That Level

Sure, Joe has taken some shots. We all know that Joe has a mean streak, based on his comments about other Dems.

But Gore is a better man than that. He shouldn't be petty; he should be showing the world he's the statesman that he is.

DTH

[elcondor]

58. I agree Gore should have callled him

but Lieberman is acting like he's entitled to something after all he's said and done since the selection. I'm not afraid to say it: in 2000, I thought Gore made a good choice in Lieberman--and the mainstream press had nothing but good things to write about him. I didn't like how Lieberman was one of the first to speak out against Clinton--but he voted against impeachment: he stood by Clinton when it counted. Like someone else upthread said, Lieberman gave Gore good news when he really needed it. I used to fervently defend Lieberman here, but the way he's been behaving lately has turned me off to it. (I do not think he is a DINO by any means, just to make myself clear.)

Personally, I don't think Gore was being petty. IMHO, Gore shows everyday what a statesman he is--he doesn't need to support someone who has changed so much since 2000. I don't blame him for not rewarding someone who has all but stabbed him in the back.

[realFedUp]

50. Gore thinks invading Iraq was a huge mistake

Joe doesn't. Pretty clear you can't support a
candidate with such an opposing view.

[Forkboy]

57. Joe is bummin'

[DemonFighterLives]

62. My 2 cents on Joe

He is irrelevant and disgusting shill for the Bush Adminsitration. His trip to cajole Sharon in the killing of Palestinians sealed the deal for me. Gore could have done a cally wally, but Lieberman wasn't there for him when he needed an attack dog for the 2000 fiasco.
Sorry Joe, we gotta go!

[Ace R. Rubrum]

64. Power Struggle

It appears that a power struggle for control of the Democratic party is occurring. The party has been divided into two wings since at least the 1960's: the Labor wing and the Civil Rights wing. The Clinton's are the tentative leaders of the CR wing and Dick Gephart leads the Labor wing.

Al Gore's endorsement of Dean is not an attack on Lieberman per se, who controls neither wing; it is an attack on Gephart, and is intended to prevent him from capturing the CR wing, combining it with the Labor wing, and thereby wresting control of the entire party from the Clintons. Whether or not the CR wing actually follows Gore's advice remains to be seen.

Gore is clearly allied with the Clintons, who would prefer to see the CR wing follow Dean into political oblivion in 2004, rather than join with and strengthen Gephart. If Gephart, as the most centrist and moderate Dem. candidate, could control both wings he could realistically win a dozen states in 2004, against a rather strong R candidate (let's face it, the incumbent is very likely to win a second term regardless of who gets the D nomination). There is even a chance that Gephart could win it all in 2004 if things go really bad in Iraq over the next 10 months.

Were Gephart to control both wings of the party, his chances of winning in 2008 would be greatly improved, especially since it looks like Cheney will be Bush's running mate in 2004. Cheney will not be a viable R candidate in 2008 because of his health issues and lack of charisma. Therefore, in 2008 the R's will be running a relatively weak candidate - that is, someone that the D's can expect to defeat (let's hope its not Powell). By 2008, Americans will be ready for a change in the White House, and Gephart, or his hand-picked successor, would be in a rather powerful position. Hillary Clinton understands that Americans don't like to change Presidents unless a crisis or scandal is occurring. The current lack of crisis explains why she is not running in 2004.

If Howard Dean gets the nomination, the D Party will be clearly divided in 2004. The Labor wing, dominated by northern ethnic Catholic voters, will have a difficult time supporting Dean. These are socially conservative folks who fear nothing more than than the "L" word, and the epithet "socialist". These are the so-called "Reagan Democrats", the same people who failed to support McGovern in 1972. I Recall that Nixon picked up a pile of Union endorsements in 1972 and clobbered McGovern. The labor wing is the original progressive constituency, which FDR lured away from the TR Republicans and the Populist Party in the first half of the 20th Century. I might add that Bush has done a clever job of appealing to these middle class Democrats with his medicare reform program and tax cuts (it is never wise to underestimate your opponent). These Labor Democrats are the ultimate "swing constituency".

The Labor wing is absolutely vital to a Democratic victory. Without them, the D candidate cannot win. Hillary Clinton's greatest fear is that the Labor and CR wings will unite behind Gephart, thereby scuttling her chances in 2008. Her fear is that Gephart could win (or even come close) in 2004.

It is now up to the CBC to decide. I'm sure they will let us know soon which way they intend to go.

Of course, to believe my thesis, you must believe that the Clintons would prefer to see the Democrats lose to Bush in 2004 in order to improve Hillary's chances in 2008. I realize that many of you will not endorse such an unthinkable idea, but politics is a tough business, and no place for sentimentalists (witness the back-stabbing that just occurred to Joe Lieberman). Nice guys finish last.

And one more strike against Lieberman: Long-time sitting Senators almost never win the Presidential nominations of either party - VP maybe, but not often Prez. When a Senator does get the nomination, he tends to lose the general election (JFK being the only post-WWII exception to this rule, and he was a short-term Senator). I suppose it's because Senators are generally perceived as anti-populist, and Americans prefer to vote for "a man of the people".

[SOS]

68. Interesting post

but are we sure that "Gore is clearly allied with the Clintons"?
Gore shut Clinton out of the 2000 campaign. He may well blame Clinton's activities with Monica for damaging his political career.
The buzz is that the Clintons urged Clark to run in an effort to stop Dean. It seems that Gore has left the clubhouse and is taking a risk . If Dean wins the White House, Gore may well become the Sec. of State and the Clintons will be finished. Hillary probably wouldn't run against an incumbent Democrat in the 08 primaries.

[Mari333]

69. who cares

GO AWAY JOE YOU SHOULD HAVE LEFT A LONG TIME AGO.

[Arugula Latte]

70. Question for Joe Lieberman

Hey, Joe: Why are you showing more backbone in being pissed off at Gore than you did when you were gang banged by Chimp, Jeb, Katherine, and the Supremes?

Maybe when your miserable campaign folds up you can make yourself feel better by trying to get into another photo op with your master, George W.

[pinto]

71. LOL, I may not go so far, but to say, Joe, martrydom gets you nothing, OK