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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 04:54 PM
Original message
CNN: Coalition death toll in Iraq reaches 3,000
Coalition death toll in Iraq reaches 3,000
October 16, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The death toll for coalition military forces in Iraq hit 3,000 Monday, according to a CNN tally.

The combined death toll includes 2,759 U.S. troops and seven American civilian contractors of the military.

Other coalition deaths include 119 British, 32 Italians, 18 Ukrainians, 17 Poles, 13 Bulgarians, and 11 Spaniards, as well as service members from Australia, Denmark, Estonia, Fiji, Holland, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Romania, Salvador, Slovakia, and Thailand.

The milestone was reached after U.S. military officials announced the deaths of five U.S. soldiers and Marines over the weekend.

Two U.S. soldiers were killed Sunday and two were wounded during fighting in Kirkuk, the U.S. military said Monday. The soldiers were assigned to 3rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/16/iraq.main/index.html
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Donkeykick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. You're Doing A Fine Job, Bush!
:sarcasm: :eyes:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. abc just said 12 troops died over the weekend
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Five, twelve, seven, two...what's the difference to these folks?
Both the complacent media for not drilling the mis-administration for their handling of the situation, and the mis-administration for rewarding lap-dog media practices.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. NEWS FLASH: 'George AWOL Bush is not among the dead'
Because, as usual, he is on vacation wanking off, and failing America.

He only tells the lies that get out sons and daughters killed for republicon oil profits. He don't serve. He is AWOL. As usual.

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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Damn it!!
Edited on Mon Oct-16-06 06:51 PM by Mr_Spock
He loves his war so much, why oh why can't he go over there and prove how much of a coward he is?
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. or send HIS kids.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yes, send the little pretty ones!
Hehehe - I can just hear the wicked witch cackling now :evil:
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. Be careful how you use the word "dead" or you many have
the FBI on your doorstep.

I just wish that he and his minions would simply be "gone."
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Human Torch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. Anticipating the warmth and wisdom of Tony Snow: "It's just a number"
"It's a number. And now, let me cry some more about how I survived colon cancer, since I only care about ME. Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo."
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cease_fire Donating Member (159 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. Hey Tony Snow! Is it STILL just a number?
Yeah? It's just a little bigger this time, right?

And look, you CAN add a comma to it.

It's 3 COMMA 000 american soldiers.

Here's another fun place to put a comma in JUST a number.

650,000 Iraqi civilians.

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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Sneaky trick: Obscure the 3,000 US mark by releasing the combined
coalition number, instead.

Sneaky as usual.

If I were a military family, I'd be so pissed by this.
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Haole Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-16-06 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. k & r
Barely a bleep in the news. Does anybody even care?
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. I'm disgusted with two "d's".
"We need to complete the mission . . ." WHAT MISSION??? THIS IS A FUCKING DISASTER!!

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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. Pardon my ignorance, Mr. Cleaver...
...but what are the "d's"? Dick and Duhbya?

3000 dead soldiers to avenge 3000 dead on 9/11...sounds like a bad deal even before you add the hundreds of thousands of dead civilians, all the injured and displaced, and oh yeah, the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11!!

Newsprism
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Avenge 3,000 dead on 9/11
That does seem to be the real nature of the mission. That and the oil. As my signature line attests.
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
13. And to quote Heidi Collins after that number was read....
There had been a story on weapons caches being found and it was mentioned that the 3,000th coalition member had been killed, that Ms. Collins said that the finding of the weapons cache would boost the morale of the troops. WTF??? Maybe BRINGING THEM HOME would boost their morale. Dumb stoooopid be-atch.

Why oh why won't the MSM acknowledge that our troops are DYING?

Maybe they could let me know what is happening with the adoption of Madonna's new baby?? (The REAL important stuff)
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
14. Knowing That Our Soldiers Are Dying Makes Us Responsible
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
15. No Way, this is just another pre-election liberal media trick
Those dead traitors must be in cahoots with the Democrats!!! After all, if you're dying at the hands of terrorists you must be for them!
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. that is soooo pre 9/11 thinking
"making us safer against ourselves"
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
17. ..."wondered what it must be like to have to bury your son,”
Were the thoughts of one Texas woman when she went to a funeral of her friend's/co-worker's son who died in Iraq....now she says she knows, because her son has now died over there, too.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/101706dnmetcraver.489010ca.html

Last year Denton County Sheriff’s Sgt. Phyllis Broomfield cried with her good friend Charlene Sauseda as Sauseda’s son, Army Spc. Ernie Dallas Jr., was buried with military honors after he was killed in Baghdad.

“I looked at her and wondered what it must be like to have to bury your son,” Broomfield said Monday. “Now, I know.”

Her own son, Army 2nd Lt. Johnny Craver, 37, was killed Friday in a small town south of Baghdad when he stepped out of the Bradley fighting vehicle he was commanding and an improvised explosive device blew up under his feet. Two of his men also were killed and another soldier was injured.

Broomfield learned of her son’s death Saturday as she reported for duty at the jail. Another officer met her inside and led her to an interview room. “I walked down the hall and the chaplain hugged me and I saw a military man sitting in that room and I went to my knees,” she said. “I said, ‘Please don’t tell me my son is dead.’”

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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. OMG I Just Burst Into Tears
I went to my knees like that when I got the call about Ben, I said the exact same thing too. But I was lucky because Ben lived. God Damn this stupid occupation. That poor mother. :cry:
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mikeytherat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. My bro-in-law was right near the ammo dump at Camp Falcon
when it went up last week. He was on the phone with my sister, the line went dead, and we did not hear from him for three days. Three very, VERY long days.

My father was a fighter pilot (F-4s) during Vietnam, and though I was young, I have vivid memories of the dark blue staff car pulling up, and the two uniformed personnel approaching more than a few neighbors' doors. And though it never happened to me personally, I knew why they were there - that someone's mommy or daddy was not coming home. It still makes me cry today.

I curse these war-mongering motherf**kers to the grave.

mikey_the_rat
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. My Father Was The CO Of NAS Atsugi Japan In The Late 60's
I saw up close and personal what Vietnam did to many families. I have been in a constant state of rage for so long I am afraid I will never relax again. I'll keep your bro-in-law in my heart.
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mikeytherat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. My bro-in-law is the DCO at Camp Victory
with the 89th MPs out of Fort Hood. He's a 24-year veteran who went through Gulf War I (first wave), then did tours in Afghanistan, the Balkans and Central America, and he does not have words (literally) to describe just how bad it is in Iraq. He's been in country for just over 30 days and has already attended memorial services for six men and one woman in his command. He's a hardened combat vet and a soldier's soldier - the sadness in his voice from Iraq is like nothing I've ever heard from him. He says the mood of the entire nation is that there is no right or wrong, black or white, up or down. Just chaos, death and destruction. Everywhere.

mikey_the_rat
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
19. That 2759 is now up to 2771 - just overnite I think.
Iraq seems to be imploading. And our sons and daughters are being caught right in the middle of the whole thing.

It is just an awful situation over there right now. Awful for everyone.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
21. All you Freepazoids who like to say, "It isn't as bad as WWII,"
I want to ask you, How many more soldiers have to die for this monstrous lie? How many more children will never play ball with their daddy, feel his hugs, or be given away in marriage by him? How many more children will never feel the comfort of resting their little heads on their mother's breast, smell her perfume, or feel her hand wipe away sweat from a fever? How many parents will achingly bury their grown son or daughter, knowing there will never be a grandchild?

Enough is enough. This is too much. It was too many at "1".
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nomo Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
26. What about the 600,000 dead Iraqis?
Seriously.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. Are they still playing funny business with the number?
I read once where soldiers who later die of their injuries while in hospital or when back home are not counted in the total.
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jmcmeans Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
28. Solution to the War in Iraq
A Practical solution to the Iraq War.


1. The US renounces any interest in Iraqi oil.
2. The US pays for the reconstruction of Iraq but no American companies will participate, unless invited.
3. The US apologizes to France and Germany and invites them to reconstruct the Sunni Triangle with five billion dollars, no strings attached.

Why would France and Germany agree to participate now when they previously refused to participate in the invasion of Iraq and did not participate in the reconstruction of Iraq right after the war.

France and Germany did not participate in the original combat phase because the two countries had doubts about the Bush’s administration’s assertion that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. France and Germany preferred giving the United Nations inspectors more time, and felt that the US was rushing into war.

The fact that Iraq owed France and Germany billions of dollars was another important factor
in their decision not to participate in the invasion. French and German engineering and
construction companies had built many of Saddam’s palaces and bunkers and had engineered
much of Iraq’s infrastructure. In testimony before Congress in 1988, Paul Wolfowitz mentioned
that France (and Russia) had “lucrative oil production contracts with the Saddam Hussein
regime.” French and German companies and even some politicians were implicated as
participating inappropriately in the Oil for Food Scandal. Many French and German politicians
and businessmen have longstanding personal relationships with Saddam, his family and other
important members of his regime.

The French and Germans would gain nothing and stood to lose much by replacing Saddam’s regime with a pro-American regime.

In retrospect, the two countries should have participated in the invasion to protect their national and financial interests. France and Germany could have at least sent troops to seize the Iraqi National Bank and other tangible assets. As it is, they may never see much of their money again.

Some members of Congress were so miffed at the action or lack of action on the part of our “so-called ally” France that they held a news conference on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 to announce that the three house cafeterias were henceforth forever changing the name of french fries to freedom fries. The two congressmen who held the news conference were the now disgraced Rep. Bob Ney, R. (Ohio), and Rep. Walter Jones, R., (NC).


Why did France and Germany not help to reconstruct Iraq? In fact, France, Germany and many of the other countries which opposed the war were looking forward to sharing in the spoils of victory. The sad truth is that France and Germany are not in Iraq today due to the cupidity and incompetence of the civilian leadership in the Pentagon.

On Friday, December 11, 2003, the Pentagon released a memo signed by Paul Wolfowitz stating that only countries which were members of the Coalition of the Willing would be eligible to participate in the $18.6 billion reconstruction effort.

According to CNN, “the memo's publication at www.rebuilding-iraq.net appeared to surprise the state department and the national security council.” Philip Gordon, an expert on transatlantic relations at the Brookings Institution, described the exclusion as "stupid and counter-productive,” and “another example of the Pentagon's willingness to just forge ahead."

William Kristol and Robert Kagan, analysts for the conservative think-tank The Project for the New American Century, urged President Bush to overrule the Pentagon, to “minimize the diplomatic damage done by the Pentagon’s heavy handed and counterproductive action.”

“Instead of being smart, clever or magnanimous, the Bush administration has done a dumb thing,” wrote Kristol and Kagan.

Democrats and some moderate Republicans also questioned the rationale for excluding so many possible allies.

Republican Senate leader Bill Frist said, “We have to remember that many of these countries being denied these contracts are supporting us elsewhere in the world, maybe fighting HIV-AIDS in Africa, maybe in Afghanistan.”

According to the British newspaper, The Guardian, the Pentagon's decision boosted the chance of British companies winning contracts, but the government was privately dismayed.

The British government was anxious for France and Germany to participate in the Iraqi reconstruction. The British hoped to cobble together as broad an international coalition as possible. It considered the US snub of other countries as not helpful.

Britain also wanted French and German support for a new UN resolution in the spring of 2004 to back the political process for a partial transfer of power to Iraqis, and for a UN-endorsed international force along the lines of those in Afghanistan and East Timor, according to the Guardian.

The memo stunned German officials. The foreign minister, Joschka Fischer, said Germany greeted the news with "astonishment". The German had thought that they had a established a better relationship with Washington since Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's September meeting with President Bush.

The German government spokesman, Bela Anda, said the decision was "not acceptable" and in contravention of "a spirit of looking to the future together".

According to published reports, the Canadian government, which had already spent $300 million to support Iraq and had lost several soldiers in combat in Afghanistan, threatened to cut off its contributions to the international reconstruction effort.


Many pundits pontificated that the timing could not have been worse for President Bush’s plan to ask countries to forgive Iraq’s massive debt. The president had selected former Secretary of State James Baker to be a special envoy to visit the capitals of Europe and ask the Europeans and other debtor nations like Kuwait to forgive up to fifty percent of Saddam’s debt. The very day the Wolfowitz memo was published, President Bush was calling foreign leaders and asking them to modify their demands for debt repayment. Since the memo was published on Friday, most media outlets waited to report the full details of the announcement of Secretary Baker’s mission and the Pentagon memo on the following Monday.

But the German Development Aid Minister Heidermarie Wieczorek-Zeul told Der Spiegel, “James Baker cannot expect any results in the debt question if the US does not change regarding the award of contracts. You can’t spread the results around but then keep the economic advantages for your own country.”

Before publication of Wolfowitz’s memo, Russian President Putin had shown some willingness to forgive some of the $8 billion dollar debt Iraq owed to Russia. After publication of the memo, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said, “…as far as the Russian government’s position on this, it is not planning any kind of write-off of that debt.”

The billions of dollars that Iraq still owes to France and Germany would be an important incentive to these countries to participate in the Iraqi reconstruction effort. The sooner Iraq becomes a functioning country, the sooner France and Germany would get back at least some of the money Iraq owes them.

Moreover, it is now clearly apparent that the US companies like Halliburton have totally bungled the reconstruction.




The Solution, repeated

1. The US immediately renounces any interest in Iraqi oil. Furthermore, in order to win the War on Terror, the US must eliminate the importation of all Middle Eastern and Eurasian oil. (Islamic oil)
2. The US pays for reconstruction but no American companies will participate, unless invited.
3. The US apologizes to France and Germany (privately) and invites them to reconstruct the Sunni Triangle with a down payment of five billion dollars, no strings attached.

We know that France and Germany would have participated in the reconstruction process if not for the Pentagon decision to deny them access to the bidding process.

That Pentagon decision is one of the leading causes of the insurgency, and is directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of American soldiers in Iraq. If France and Germany had been allowed to reconstruct the Sunni triangle, it is unlikely that a Sunni insurgency would have erupted. (Some foreign terrorists would still have sneaked in and a few dead enders would have resisted but the amount of violence would have been greatly reduced.)

The reconstruction of Iraq by the American companies such as Halliburton has been a complete disaster. The fraud and engineering incompetence has been overwhelming. Therefore, the United States will provide the money for reconstruction, but American companies will not participate until after a company has been cleared of any wrongdoing by a thorough Congressional investigation. Japan, Canada, Britain and other countries can take over the job of reconstructing the rest of Iraq.


France and Germany would have complete control of their portion of Iraq, essentially the Sunni Triangle. All American businesses involved in Reconstruction in that area will leave, unless invited to stay by the Iraqis, France and Germany.

Several things must happen before France and Germany agree to participate. French and Germans engineers will not put a foot on the ground unless the Sunnis agree to stop the insurgency. The Sunnis will agree to end the fighting because all American combat forces would leave that portion of Iraq. There would be no need for US combat forces if the Sunnis are not fighting, and the Sunnis cannot fight the Americans if they are not there. American aid organizations would negotiate with the emerging Sunni leadership to see if any additional US help is desired.

The other major requirement needed before France and Germany would agree to participate is that the Sunni’s must kick al-Qaida and other terrorist groups out of their territory. Presently, the Sunnis are tolerating the presence of the terrorists because al-Qaida is killing Americans and Shiites. The Sunnis will not want al-Qaida to attack the French and Germans, as the terrorists would be eager to do. The Iraqi Sunnis and al-Qaida are not natural allies and they have competing agendas which cannot be reconciled over the long term. Therefore the Sunnis will either chase al-Qaida out of their territory themselves or invite the Americans to do it.

The Sunnis must understand that they cannot allow al-Qaida to remain in their territory and attack the remaining American troops or Shiites in other portions of Iraq.

Fortunately, once kicked out of Sunni territory, Al-Qaida will not be able to gain a haven in either Shiite or Kurdish territory. Obviously, a few terrorist cells may remain underground and have the ability to do some damage. Terrorists can also drive in from Iran or Syria for the day and set off a car bomb. In order to prevent this, the Sunnis, French and German will finally take steps to guard the border with Syria, something the US has never successfully done.

Under this solution, Syria will have an incentive to suppress terrorist activity that uses Syria as a transit point or originates there because some of the material needed for reconstruction will probably be brought in through Syrian ports, and the Syrians will collect payment. If for some reason Syria does not cooperate, materials and supplies can also be brought into Iraq through Jordan.

It may be necessary to use Syria and Jordan because Shiite extremists might attack or hijack French and German materials being transported through southern Iraq. Both France and Germany have strong historic ties with Syria and Jordan, which are both Sunni countries, so it is unlikely there would be a problem gaining permission to use those countries for transit if trouble occurs in southern Iraq.

One danger for the French and Germans is that al-Qaida may attack the two homelands because the French and Germans are frustrating Osama’s overall plan to rule the Middle East. However, if the moderate Sunni mullahs in Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia express friendship and gratitude toward France and Germany for offering aid and comfort by rebuilding Sunni Iraq, al-Qaida will not be able to justify an attack. If attacks are made on France and Germany, it will be clear to the Muslim street that the struggle fomented by al-Qaida is not a war between Islam and the Crusaders, or the Middle East against the West, or a clash of civilizations, or World War 3, or an invasion to steal Arab oil, but a ruthless fight for political power by radical Islamic extremists.

The Arab street will realize that at least some Western countries are friendly to Arabs and Moslems once competent governments begin to use their competent construction and engineering companies to reconstruct Iraq.

This solution will also help solve one of the most contentious issues in Iraq, the equitable distribution of resources, mainly oil. It is known that large reserves of oil exist in the Kurdish and Shiite section of the country. The Sunnis, with the assistance of the French and Germans, can begin to explore for oil in their territory, and extract the oil with the help of the French and Germans. If they do develop oil fields, they would be wise to construct new pipelines through Syria and Jordan. These new pipelines would help both US and world national security interests by reducing the stranglehold that Iran presently has on a significant portion of the worlds’ oil reserves by way of their strategic control of the Strait of Hormuz.

This solution will not necessarily advance the partition of Iraq into two or three parts, which may or may not happen eventually anyway. This solution has the potential to help reduce ethnic and religious tensions by giving the Sunnis an opportunity to enjoy a reasonable standard of living. Experts estimate that unemployment in Iraq is as high as 40%.

Presently, the Shiites and Kurds have established an uneasy political alliance for protection against possible Sunni aggression. A more prosperous Sunni section of Iraq is less likely to attack the other sections.

The Kurds have large, undeveloped reserves of oil, and most of the Kurdish oil would probably go south through Shiite territory. But they should connect a pipeline to one of the new Sunni pipelines running through Jordan or Syria, in order to give them another option in case of a Shiite or Iranian attempt to block the export of their oil.

One of the main advantages of this solution is that with a prosperous and relatively strong Iraq, it will be more difficult for Iran’s extremist mullahs to achieve their goal of controlling Iraq or Iraqi oil.

According to a recent poll, 85% of the population of Iraq, including Shiites, Kurds and Sunnis, hate al-Qaida and by extension any other foreign terrorists. Once American combat troops leave, al-Qaida will no longer be useful to the Sunnis. After the US makes a commitment to remove combat troops and offers a diplomatic agreement to the Sunni insurgent leadership, the Sunnis will kill or chase the al-Qaida terrorists out of Iraq.

If the US begins today to create and implement a wiser and unselfish policy towards Iraq, the possibility of Iraq becoming a terror haven for al-Qaida after the US leaves is miniscule.




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