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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:51 AM
Original message
U.S. aid stirring suspicion in Venezuela
Home › News

Aug 26, 12:38 PM EDT
U.S. aid stirring suspicion in Venezuela

By IAN JAMES
Associated Press Writer



AP Photo/NG HAN GUAN

World Video




CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- The U.S. government is spending millions of dollars in the name of democracy in Venezuela - bankrolling human rights seminars, training emerging leaders, advising political parties and giving to charities. But the money is raising deep suspicions among supporters of President Hugo Chavez, in part because the U.S. has refused to name many of the groups it's supporting.

Details of the spending emerge in 1,600 pages of grant contracts obtained by The Associated Press through a Freedom of Information Act request. The U.S. Agency for International Development released copies of 132 contracts in all, but whited out the names and other identifying details of nearly half the grantees.

U.S. officials insist the aid is aboveboard and politically neutral, and say the Chavez government would harass or prosecute the grant recipients if they were identified.

Chavez, however, believes the United States is campaigning - overtly and covertly - to undermine his leftist government, which has crusaded against U.S. influence in Latin America and elsewhere.


"The empire pays its lackeys, and it pays them well," he said recently, accusing some of his opponents of taking "gringo money.">>>snip


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DOLLARS_FOR_DEMOCRACY?SITE=FLSTU&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. Does anyone want to guess who's interfering?
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. We know who'll be given the assignment

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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. More do as I say...
...not as I do.

Why do they hate us again?

Oh that's right, for our freedoms...
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. Y'all got FREEDOMS down there? - dat's news to me!!!!
.
.
.

I was a regular visitor to the US from about 1959 - 1995

Been in 24 of your 48 mainland states

Up and down both coasts more than once, and driven cross country from San Diego to Toronto, Ontario

Lived in SanDee for 14 months from 79-80 - had planned to retire there

Watching the USA's "Shawk n Awe" on Baghdad instantly made up my mind to never revisit the USA.

HS and all this plane scare just reinforces my initial decision.

We get some pretty cool winters up here,

But, - I can dress up to protect myself from the cold

I can't dress up to protect myself from your PNACers

Besides - it's PRETTY up here

Waiting for the fall colours

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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. Self Delete...double post n/t
Edited on Sat Aug-26-06 12:05 PM by orwell
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. Does anyone believe this money is NOT intended to undermine Chavez?
How can you "support democracy" by working to undermine a legitimately elected government?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Easy! There's democracy. And then there's democracy.
Of course, the latter is merely a nice label attached to US imperialism/capitalism but it makes for pretty headlines.
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Show_Me _The_Truth Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. There's freedom from US influence
and then there's



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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Nice smear there, Show_Me_The_LIE
We made allies of Stalin during WWII in order to fight Hitler, so why shouldn't all those nations that oppose American imperialism ally themselves against the American Hitler?

As to Iran, they are not the ones that bombed Beirut like the Luftwaffe bombed Warsaw in 1939. It is Israel, not Iran, that are the new Nazis of the Middle East.
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Show_Me _The_Truth Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. What Lie?
N/T
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. A megaphone would post a pic of Chavez with Ahmadinejad without context
Edited on Sat Aug-26-06 02:16 PM by IndianaGreen
Posting a picture of Chavez with Ahmadinejad without context is what one can expect from the many megaphones for a war on Iran we encounter on the web nowadays. To the gullible American public, which has been exposed to months of anti-Iranian propaganda, and to endless demonization of Ahmadinejad, seeing Chavez with Ahmadinejad will elicit a neocon Pavlovian response.

The Judeo-Christian axis of evil that got us into the quagmire in Iran is now beating their war drums for new wars against Syria, Iran, or anyone else that stands in opposition to the new crusaders in Washington and Jerusalem.

No thanks! If you want war, enlist, and go off to your bloody war, a war that you will surely lose as the US lost in Iraq and Israel lost in Lebanon.
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Show_Me _The_Truth Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Too tired
to point out all of the check marks that I could put on this page
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html

after your little diatribe up front.

Ahmadinejad needs noone else to demonize him, his actions and his own words do that nicely for him. But oh wait, the Iranians, Hizbollah, and Hammas are the new "Jews," persecuted as Hitler persecuted Jews in the 30's and 40's. They are innocents just trying to get along nicely with everyone else in the world.

If you want to bring religion into it, then tell me which of the Holy texts specifically admonishes its followers to kill the infidel? Christian or Muslim?

By the way, I already did my bit for God and Country.

I am no shill for the * admin. I just think that if we are going to be true to ourselves and trying to uphold and debate principles (what more can you do on an internet chatroom) then they should apply to all.

But of course, your trick is to use all dispute with your point as a defense of the current administration. Any dispute = Rummy Lover. Then all the other sheep around here buy in to it and immediately jump on the band wagon.

Try to separate out the argument and take it in context. I have in NO WAY defended what the US is doing or has done.

If we hold one to a set of principles and criticize their actions, then we MUST do so for all others.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. And then there's


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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. And what problem does Venezuela have with Iran? Why should they,
as another oil rich country, not have communication with the Iranian government?

Because the US and Israel say so?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. And the point of that pic to prove what point?
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Oh boy, Chavez sitting next to a TERRORIST!
And Chavez's guys are wearing RED berets; they're probably COMMUNISTS!
Scary, ain't it.

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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. no, that means he'll sacrifice them on the Away Team!
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. Chavez is 'smart' enough to publicly broadcast worldwide what U.S. does
in his country BEFORE or WHILE it is happening (like the alleged attempts to assasinate him). Because he does, he gathers "support' from other nations direct/and indirect. And he makes the "intervention of U.S. 'democracy' forces) operate less and more subvertly...thereby slowing and thwarting their progress.

Chavez is a very astute, 'stret-wize leader...with friends in high places in other foreign countries. To mess with Chavez, could be 'trouble' down the line for the 'forces of so-called Democracy.
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loves_dulcinea Donating Member (384 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. seems to me
Edited on Sat Aug-26-06 01:12 PM by loves_dulcinea
* could have done this country a world of good by doing that right here in "merka".
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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. wonder if the CorporaFascists gave Bush the idea for the term Islamic-
fascists

Anyway, they were always thick as thieves in Latin America (the CorporaFascists) until the recent shift leftward.

Maybe if the CIA could gather real intelligence on real threats instead of trying to overthrow populist regimes, we'd be safer and more secure.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. It is against Venzuelan law to accept foreign money for domestic
political campaigns. Many countries have similar laws, including our own. I believe Clinton got into a bit of trouble over this. Chinese money, as I recall.

Venezuelan prosecutors went after officials of SUMATE, which basically ran the Recall election against Chavez for the rich oil elite--illegally. (Chavez won it, handily, in a heavily monitored election--by the OAS, the Carter Center, and EU election monitoring groups). One investigator of the SUMATE money trail has already turned up dead (car bomb).

This Bushite appropriated money (OUR money!) is very ill intended. We know how Bushites "win" elections. What do you suppose they are teaching Venezuelan rightwingers? Hacking voting machines, dirty tricks, smearing opponents, "swiftboating," "special ops," shorting the poor and the brown on voting machines and precincts, threatenng phone calls from thugs, disinformation, shredding opposition voter registrations, rioting over recounts, and, when all else fails, the opposition's small plane falling out of the sky.

The Bushites are not nice people. Nor are the people they fund.

I HOPE the Chavez government harasses and prosecutes these people. They are up to no good. They are the friendly face of the death squads. And they are no doubt breaking Venezuelan law, funneling this money to the opposition, just as they did with SUMATE in the Recall.

This disgusting and infuriating. This is OUR money put to illegal and destructive purpose--as we have seen done everwhere the Bush Cartel has operated.

I would like to see a decent opposition to Chavez. I admire Chavez, and I especially admire his supporters--the vast poor, brown population that has never before been served by goverment, has never had a voice in government, and has been exploited, impoverished and shoved aside--if not beaten, tortured or 'disappeared'--throughout US/fascist rule in South America. They are coming into their own, at last, as a political and social force, and it is a beautiful thing to see.

But anyone can get a big head and succumb to the temptations of power. That's what the "balance of power" in a constitutional government is about--preventing anyone from getting tyrannical notions. I see none of that in Chavez--NONE! He's a bit of an egotist and a perfomer (I was going to say clown, but that's not quite what I mean--he's jolly, he's clever, he loves the spotlight), but that doesn't mean tyrant. Tyrant is as tyrant does, and he has done nothng tyrannical at all. In fact, I fault him somewhat for not taking an even stronger line against Bushite interference in his country. It would be justified, considering Bushite support of the failed miltary coup, and of a crippling oil strike, its unrelenting and completely unfair anti-Chavez propaganda, and other nefarious activities. Neither Chavez nor Venezuela's democracy is safe as long as the Bushites are in power.

But that doesn't mean that Chavez couldn't acquire dictatorial notions--especially given his great popularity combined with the very real threat from the north that Venezuela faces. He does not seem the dictatorial type, but it's always a possibility, and the political opposition to him in Venezuela is a joke. Think "freeper." That's about the level of it. It's a whiney, greedy, tiny elite group of have's in the midst of stark poverty. But it's backed by the oil giants and scads of our taxpayer dollars--and no doubt good portions of our CIA, NSA and Pentagon budgets as well. That is not a healthy opposition. That is a potential violent coup--and they've already tried it once, the military coup of 2002, which the Bushites welcomed and probably fomented and financed. The recent jail escape of the coup perpetrators was a professional job--likely CIA. Chavez is trying to be a humanitarian, and a good man and a good president as these venomous snakes gather round. He has really put himself on the line for Latin American self-determination, and I think that idea will succeed--is succeeding, all over South and Central America--no matter what happens to Chavez. But a REAL opposition--perhaps one to the left of him--would be a good development, as least as to democratic theory.

If a strong left were calling for seizure of big oil's facilities there, for instance, Chavez's requirement that big oil merely pay its fair share of taxes wouldn't generate so much scheming against him. A more "conservative" (in the old meanng of the word) pro-business opposition could bring some improvement in Chavez's more socialist policies. For instance, I read of a small businesswoman (very small grocery business) complain that the nearby food coop for the very poor was undercutting her prices and driving her out of business. They can't stop feeding the very poor--they would starve. But she should be helped in some way--perhaps given aid to diversify. Business acumen should be brought to bear on socialist enterprises, and the overall health of this mixed economy considered. A pro-business party could be helping the country--and providing constructive criticism--instead of conspiring to grab back all the oil wealth for the few. Chavez is also deficient on environmental policy and on indigenous policy. He could use criticism, and he IS getting it from various members of the legislature, but there is no party or opposition leader that is a serious rival to Chavez and his government and its many supporters.

Maybe I'm wrong--and things just have to develop differently in Venezuela, with one-man popular rule for a while. His government has a lot of good people in it. And they all speak freely, as far as I can tell. (It reminds me of FDR's New Deal government--it attracts brains and skill, and very willful, determined people.)

It's also quite possible that the Bush (OUR) money and interference are PREVENTING a healthy opposition from developing, as it lures rightwing people with dreams of fascist rule, a la the Bush junta--and compromises whatever patriotic and good government tendencies they possess. These people supported a military coup (so did the entire corporate news monopoly establishment), and a crippling strike by oil industry professionals that nearly destroyed Venezuela's economy. They wasted everyone's time and resources on a really stupid Recall election, and got some of their members into legal trouble by accepting foreign money. They have acted downright crazy at times. For instance, they complained and complained and complained about "voter fraud" in the Recall election, with THREE hefty international monitoring groups--OAS, Carter Center and EU--all saying there was no evidence of it. And they KEPT complaining! Like Freepers. The election commission asked them, what do they want to insure fairness in the coming by-electons? They demanded that the fingerprint ID be halted--that it had been abused. The election commission acquiesced. THEN they BOYCOTTED the election ANYWAY. The only reason they boycotted the by-elections--apparent to everyone--is they knew they were going to lose seats. And by boycotting the election, they lost even more seats that they would have, if they hadn't boycotted.

The upshot of this idiocy was to give Chavez MORE power--an airtight majority in congress. If they had been a reasonable opposition, they might have maintained a voice in Venezuelan affairs, and gotten stronger. Does anyone else smell Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove in these tactics? Such tactics worked, here, against Corporate Democrats, themselves members of the moneyed class, anxious to profit from global corporate piracy. They did not work in Venezuela. Likely, that's why the Bush junta recently formed a special NSA unit to overthrow Chavez. They in fact did damage to Chavez's opposition. When the Bush junta fails, they always get more extreme--thus more money poured into political interference, prepping the Venezuelan fascists in the ways of fascist rule. In summary, the Bushites DON'T WANT Venezuelan democracy to succeed. They want to destabilize it, overthrow it, and grab the oil. A tiny elite--which, like the fascists here are just greedy S.O.B.'s with no loyalty and no patriotism, out for their own profit--may lard themselves with riches, or dream of doing so. Most Venezuelans find this disgusting, and are hell bent on never letting it happen in their country again.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thanks for a great perspective on this isssue
This news is from AP from their request and still the government does not reveal anything.

I thought when I read about the diplomatic pouches that Chavez was a little over the top until the rest of the story caught up with newsand then read later thetr were lorries that were stopped not pouches.

Millions should be spent here for free elections.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Thank you for your excellent post! Beautifully said!
Edited on Sat Aug-26-06 03:26 PM by scarletwoman
I can't really add anything -- you've really nailed it -- I just want to compliment you on a damn fine piece of writing. Well done! :thumbsup:

sw
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. hm, interesting
I'm curious to see where this goes.
Probably much of what Bush is funding in Venezuela aren't exactly "political campaigns"; presumably practically all of it is "political" in one way or another, but not all of it "campaign".
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Great post
US Aid has a history in Developing countries.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. excellent explanation. I would add only one thing. My friends in south
america do call him dictatorial. I can't see it from here, but they have been through a lot, and I understand their fears. Of course all the Latin American dictators were financed and placed in power by the US, and extremely right wing. (even Peron, although he was loved.)
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #25
34. Well, the thing is he was ELECTED--by big majorities, several times, in
heavily monitored elections. So, maybe they're reacting to "the dictatorship of the proletariat," so to speak--that is, the will of the majority.

The "dictator" meme has been pushed hard by all of our war profiteering corporate news monopolies, by all of Venezuela's corporate news monopolies, and (I tracked it down) by Cardinal Carrillo Lara (where it started--fascist Vatican financial minister, one of the few people ever kicked out the Vatican--in the 1980s banking scandals). AP, the WSJ, WaPo, the NYT--they ALL USE IT. But they don't attribute it to anyone. "According to his critics....," is how they word it. I think they're consulting Cardinal Lara as "his critics"--an 80+ year old rightwing asshole who is so corrupt they couldn't even keep him in the Vatican!

I have yet to see ANY evidence for it. WHAT is he dictating? TO WHOM is he dictating? The corporate news monopolies in Venezuela run rampant against him--running a 24/7 fascist propaganda mill (just like here). They even openly backed the violent military coup attempt. He has DONE NOTHING to stop them. Just goes his way, responding to the WILL OF THE PEOPLE who elected him, and with the cooperation of the legislature, ALSO elected by the people, and with--it appears to me--considerable devotion to the Constitution and the law.

South Americans can ALSO be brainwashed. The Corporate Media is pervasive. Do they cite ANY evidence? WHY do they call him "dictatorial"? WHAT has he DONE to merit that adjective? Please ask--because I think it is a complete and total smear. A rightwing, corporate, Bushite 'swiftboating.' I'm an open-minded person. I know that ANYONE can become a tyrant. But I want FACTS. Not IMPRESSIONS. Not memes planted by fascist Cardinals, and broadcast worldwide by fascist media.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Excellent Summary!
:patriot:

Bookmarking for Reference.
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. Thank you very much
for your superb post.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
23. When overt coups don't work, jack up the money and propaganda.
There is more than one way to skin a populist leader!
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Yes, we here in the USA eat, drink and sleep media propaganda
Edited on Sat Aug-26-06 07:05 PM by ShortnFiery
every damn day. I forced myself to listen to a few minutes of that a**hat clown, Glenn Beck, this evening and NOW I have to go take a shower to wash off the FILTH of his sick-minded warmongering views off of my body and soul. What a freak! And theres so many more media whores "all over" what's now referred to the USA Cable Media Infotainment Programming. :(

Oh yeah, all we receive in the USA via TV is TOTAL PROPAGANDA, FLUFF and gratuitous spin for those who hold the reigns of power. Why should the Pentagon PsyOps guys treat Venezuela any different than disrespect them with propaganda just like they do their own people in the Good Ole' USA? :puke: :thumbsdown:
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. A good Republican friend loves Glenn Beck.
I told him Beck is a Log Cabin Republican wannabe and thinks of himself as the RW Steven Colbert. Beck HAS to be joking, no one could believe he is actually serious. The show is a parody of the worst M$M media whoring I've ever seen. If he had Anthrax Ann on it would be a Suck Fest.

I hope Latin America tells George Bush where to stick it. Couldn't happen to a nicer asshole IMO.
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NobleCynic Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
29. Unless it was meant to undermine Chavez,
there is no reason for it to be secret. In total $26 million over four years isn't all that much, but to pretend it is politically neutral aid is comical at best.
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eccles12 Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
30. Can they just freeze US assests or pass a law to prevent supporting
"insurgent" within their country? Our Congress doesn't have enough sense or morality to do this.
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