US bomb shipment stops at UK airport

[maxrandb]

Don't know the credibility of Jeruselem Post, but this is interesting.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292012697&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

British Foreign Minister Margaret Becket criticized the United States on Thursday for failing to follow procedures for international arms shipments after a US plane carrying a shipment of "smart bombs" for Israel stopped for refueling at Scotland's Prestwick Airport, Sky News reported.

The foreign secretary said that it appeared that safety regulations had not been observed.

(snip)

According to the report, the US is stressing that the early shipment should not be seen as an emergency supply to help Israel, but rather as a change of schedule in a deal which was previously agreed upon

[xultar]

1. The last line is PNAC NeoCon Warmonger...

[Tellurian]

2. Bush, aiding and abbetting terrorists!

"The New York Times reported Saturday that the decision to rush the shipment was reached after little debate within the administration. The "smart bombs" - bombs which are equipped with precision guidance devises, are part of an arms deal reached months ago between Israel and the US, but the fighting in Lebanon led Israel to ask for an expedited delivery of the bombs, before the agreed scheduled of supply."

What would Israel need with a shipment of smart bombs at Christmas time?

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

8. Here we go again.

Israel = Terrorists

:eyes:

[Tellurian]

10. Ah-huh..

The corruption runs so deep, we can hardly fathom what the real truth is.
A good rule of thumb is Believe Nothing; Question Everything-

METASYRIANNA

[maxrandb]

13. While I don't agree with Talurian

the longer this goes on, the more it looks like Israel is punishing for punishment sake.

Someone brought out a good point the other day about India. They were bombed by suicide bombers and dozens of innocents were killed and hundreds, maybe thousands were injured. Although strong evidence suggests that the bombers were an organization from Pakistan, you did not see Indian aircraft leveling entire cities in Pakistan.

Israel has two soldiers taken, some confusion exists about who crossed the border first, and they are systematically destroying an entire country.

Israel has a right to defend itself, but there is also a point where it becomes a "bridge too far".

To get back on topic though, why is the US breaking international rules about arms shipments, violating safety regulations, and attempting to hide this shipment from our closest allie (UK)?

Suppose this plane had crashed in a Scottish town. Would we then be the "terrist"?

[Tellurian]

44. Something we can agree upon..your sloppy spelling habits..

Personally, my concerns lie with what my country is doing. Your vacillating posts provide neither
accurate information backing your assertions nor do you provide definitive alternatives for dismissing
my statement as un agreeable. All you've posted so far is half baked regurgitated inaccurate pap culled
from a variety of sources asking more questions than providing at the very least, good speculative related research.

Get a grip why don't cha.

[xultar]

15. Please stop with the woah is me stuff.

[burythehatchet]

21. Name one thing that the "terrorists" have caused

wherein Israel has not also been responsible for the same type result.

For either side to claim a moral superiority is the CAUSE of the problem.

[saigon68]

28. Not one group but 2 Groups of Thugs and Hoodlums killing children

One group of Murderers supported by the Chimpanzee with my tax dollars.

The other group supported with oil dollars from Exxon Oil in Saudi (paid by me to fill up.)

[Just Me]

30. Well, let's talk about "collective punishment" and define "terrorism".

Is the U.S. or Israel's motivation "political"?

Ummmmm, YES!!!!

Has the U.S. and Israel killed innocent citizens in pursuit of their political positions?

Ummmmm, YES!!!

Have either the U.S. or Israel imposed "collective punishment" in pursuit of their political agendas?

YUP.

Now, go and do a couple minutes of research on the U.S.A. definition of "terrorism",....and come back with all the right-wing rationalizations for the activities by the U.S.A. and Israel.

I don't expect reason or law or democracy to be contained in your reply. I've learned to loose such silly expectations.

[HuffleClaw]

9. hmmmmm

one might almost think this was planned some time ago and NOT a 'crisis' caused by the 'kidnapping of two israeli soldiers'.

[Roland99]

17. From the government that campaigns instead of governing.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

3. The U.K. just wants to get themselves checked off. n/t

[bennywhale]

5. You're right. There was a poll a couple of days ago

stating an overwhelming majority throught the British government should distance themselves from the US and that they did not contradict and oppose their policies and actions more (along those lines anyway)

this is a pathetic attempt for them to appease people, but it ain't worked cos over here everyone is saying "..no we don't oppose the arms shipment for procedural reasons, we oppose it for moral reasons"

[Freedom_from_Chains]

24. we oppose it for moral reasons

Now that would be a position that has some substance to it. :toast: :yourock:

[maxrandb]

25. I think that every one is trying to

"distance themselves from the U.S."

and they asked; "How much damage could he really do in 6 years"?

[rodeodance]

4. this is prob. an opportunity to get a carrot or two from the US?

[MaineDem]

6. I saw this on the BBC News this morning

There's also a report that the plane was initially called in as civilian and then changed to military. The cargo was never disclosed prior to landing violating international rule.

[Woolwich]

7. Style over substance.....

The UK government was asked whether they would have agreed to the shipment if they had been asked, and depressingly the answer was "yes".

[Tellurian]

12. Yes, easier to complain the shipment wasn't properly ckd out by the US..

A complaint held up as giving notice; we're aware!

[MaineDem]

14. I guess I don't understand their arguments then

Are they upset they weren't told? Is that all?

[Woolwich]

16. Yes

From the reports I have read, the objections seem to be driven by a failure to follow procedure only - but of course this does give an opportunity for the UK government to be seen to be "talking tough" to the US following the recent criticism of their poodle status.

[maxrandb]

11. Bush don't need no stickin' "international rules"

He's the "decider" don't you know.

I never thought of the way some smart DUer's are reading this. Could be an attempt by the UK to say; "hey, don't look at us, we're washing our hands of it".

[Robbien]

18. This is confusing. Did the bomb shipment get stopped permanently

or just questioned and then sent on their way to be used in more death and destruction of human life and property?

[Woolwich]

19. Pointless

It didn't get stopped, searched or interfered with in any way. Touched down, and took off.

[Robbien]

20. So the article is just for show. To project some false bravado?

How sad is that.

[maxrandb]

22. Well Tony's got to do something

to try to lose that "Poodle" image.

This makes the UK look more like a Jack Russell Terrier. Still a small little snippy dog controlled by it's master, but NOT A POODLE.

I think the article is significant because it appears that even with the UK, Bush don't give a sh$$ about rules or anything.

In a nutshell, * says to the UK; "I'm taking my damn weapons for Israel through your airports and airspace, cause I got some killin to do", and the UK says; "Gee, we really don't like that, but OK".

[DemoTex]

31. Not exactly: Landed. Refueled. Took-off.

I'll voice my problems with this scenario in another post below.

BTW: Welcome to DU Woolwich!

[Nothing Without Hope]

23. ***BBC: UK foreign sec'y Beckett protests US shipping bombs through UK

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5218036.stm
Last Updated: Thursday, 27 July 2006, 14:34 GMT 15:34 UK

Beckett protest at weapons flight

British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett has protested to the US about its use of Prestwick Airport in western Scotland to transport bombs to Israel.

Amid the Lebanon crisis, she said it seemed the US was ignoring procedure, and she registered her concerns with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

(snip)

Mr Salmond said that "with an escalating Middle East conflict", it was ill-advised to send bombs "to arm one side in that conflict to the teeth, at a time when hundreds of civilians, many children, United Nations observers, have already been eliminated, killed, by similar weapons".

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that for the UK to stand up to the Americans, it "would require an independent foreign policy, as opposed to merely acquiescing everything the United States chooses to do".

(snip)

[BrightKnight]

26. .

[Zhade]

27. The JP's BoD includes Richard Perle.

(Unless he's since resigned.) So that should show how reliable and unbiased that shitty rag is.

[sweetheart]

29. prestwick, whatever

The CIA can do whatever it wants on its own territory... bombs whatever, the CIA
runs the UK... its just an outpost with a puppet government... what does blair think he is?

[DemoTex]

32. My problems with this Prestwick scenario ..

To set the record straight, I have flown in and out of Prestwick (south of Glasgow on the Firth of Clyde) many times. Most of those were as a test pilot evaluating aircraft built there in the BAe (British Aerospace) plant, and elsewhere in the UK. I have buzzed Fingal's Cave, the Great Glen of Scotland, Loch Ness and Urqhart Castle, Ben Nevis, and other points of interest in the region.

My problems with Prestwick and this bomb-laden story:

1. Prestwick is a civilian airfield. Why take the risk of landing a bomb transport at a foreign civilian airfield? The US has a base across the Firth on the peninsula (Machrihanish AFB/RAFB) .. OK, forget that. Machrihanish is so secret that it makes Nevada's Area 51 look like Times Square. There are plenty of other military bases around (East Anglia, zb) for either a military transport or a Halliburton hire to refuel out of the public's view.

2. Smart Bombs aren't, de facto smart. It takes a lot of training, software in the aircraft, etc., etc., to make the "smart bomb" work. You don't just deliver a load of smart bombs to be used the next day (by a force that has no experience with them).

On the other hand, the CIA "rendering" jets (GulfStream 5s and Boeing 737-LRs) have reportedly used Prestwick for refueling. When I flew TOP-SECRET SPECIAL INTEL aircraft in SE Asia, we always sneaked our fuel at the most obscure and secure base as possible.

[cal04]

33. Britain lets more US arms flights land in Scotland

THE Government will allow more American aircraft carrying arms to Israel to stop over in Britain despite private concerns that the Pentagon was “playing fast and loose”.

The US has asked the Government to let two aircraft with missiles and bombs on board stop at Prestwick in the next fortnight. However, Labour MPs are furious with the US for breaking the rules governing the use of British airports as staging posts when demands on Israel for a ceasefire in Lebanon are growing stronger.

The Times has been told that two aircraft that landed at Prestwick last weekend carrying “bunker-busting” bombs had been designated as civilian flights and that the US failed to notify authorities in advance of their hazardous cargoes, as the rules demand.

The GBU28 bombs contain 630lbs (285kg) of high explosives and were developed by the US for use in the first Gulf War. The first foreign sale of the GBU28 was the acquisition of 100 units by Israel, authorised in April last year.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2289241,00.html

[psychopomp]

34. US-UK-Israel vs. the Middle East

GBU's for the Lebonese...what is next, depleted uranium?

[Monkeyman]

37. The bombs have that brother DU is in the shells

[psychopomp]

45. Hadn't considered that

and I hope you are incorrect but I suppose not.

DU is chemical warfare.

[KoKo]

35. Kick...but it does no good...Blair will be sharing "toothpaste once again"

with the US Dictator this weekend when he comes to visit. Blair seems to be King of England like Bush is King of America.

What are we folks supposed to do? :shrug:

[Tellurian]

36. I'm amazed they haven't requisitioned them to Ireland-

Britain always pooty poots on the Irish at every opportunity.

[marmar]

38. I can't see this going over particularly well with the Scots...

Some people hate the English, I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers. We can't even pick a decent culture to be colonized by.
- A line from Renton (Ewan McGregor) in "Trainspotting"

[bennywhale]

41. What a pointless thing to say. Britain actually

includes Scotland and many scottish are ardent supporters of the monarchy etc, although obviously many are not (like me). Picking up on something said in a film by a smackhead to insult the people of England for no good reason and to use that to assume that the Scots hate the English or think they are all wankers is equally insulting to the Scots, as you are implying they are mindless bigots.

When people critcise Bush they focus on Bush, they don't call all Americans war mongering, ignorant wankers, just Bush, it would be polite if you afforded the good people of England the same courtesy.

As for "couldn't even find a good culture to be colonised by..." England, in my opinion has one of the richest cultuires on earthg (but thats beside the point

[Greeby]

39. Do you mind, Britain didn't do this

Tony Blair did this and he has long since ceased to have the right to represent Britain. And the ability to get rid of him was taken out of our hands long ago.

[DemoTex]

40. "The ability to get rid of him was taken out of our hands long ago .."

HOW!? WHY!?

[Greeby]

43. It's in the hands of these gutless so-called Labour MPs

And they won't do it

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. Airstrip One: Today's Times cartoon

http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,324940,00.jpg