AP: Bush Vetoes Stem Cell Bill As Promised

[Roland99]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060719/D8IV7FS09.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush cast the first veto of his 5 1/2-year presidency Wednesday, rejecting legislation to ease limits on federal funding for research on stem cells obtained from embryos.

"This bill would support the taking of innocent human life of the hope of finding medical benefits for others. It crosses a moral boundary that our society needs to respect, so I vetoed it," Bush said at a White House event where he was surrounded by 18 families who "adopted" frozen embryos that were not used by other couples, and then used those leftover embryos to have children.

"Each of these children was still adopted while still an embryo and has been blessed with a chance to grow, to grow up in a loving family. These boys and girls are not spare parts," he said.

While both the GOP-run House and Senate defied Bush in passing the measure to expand federally funded embryonic stem research, supporters do not appear to have the two-thirds vote margin needed to override such a veto.

Media was BARRED from the veto signing.


http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/19/bush-bars-media/

SNOW: The president will, however, before he delivers remarks this afternoon, veto the Castle bill.

Here’s how it works, because I know a lot of you have had questions. There will be no photographers, no ceremony. What the president will do is, in his office, he will sign a veto message, he will hand it to a clerk, who will convey it to a clerk of the House, and then you go through the formalities of announcing a message from the president, and at some point the House will vote on the veto.

[saltpoint]

1. Also, from this point forward, butter churns will be mandatory.

[fearthem]

26. 80% over 18% want the research! Who does he think he is, the Pope?

[Cronus Protagonist]

167. You guys bash him for doing something good for once! (graphic)

http://bushspeaks.com/home.asp?did=220

[drhilarius]

2. Why must we all suffer for the religious insanity/ idiocy of a few?nt

[Joe Bacon]

160. I hope they get sick with what I have

I struggle with Rheumatoid arthritis on a daily basis. sometimes the pain and secondary infections are pure hell to deal with.

I hope every Christian who voted against stem cell research is struck with rheumatoid arthritis, and that goes double for Bush and triple for that asshole Brownback.

I wish that P-Rick Santorum had the pain and fevers for just 24 hours. That bastard couldn't handle it for five minutes. That would make that asshole think twice before flushing 400,000 of his precious "snowflakes" down the toilet.

I've had it with Christians. I'm tired of their lust for ignorance. I'm tired of the Jesus that kills and maims innocent children with depleted uranium in Iraq. If it's the last thing I do, I won't rest until all churches are taxed. If these ignorant Christians want to play, make 'em pay.

[Marie26]

3. IDIOT

THIS he vetos? :banghead::mad:

[E-Z-B]

15. Let this be part of his legacy along with Iraq and Katrina

and the countless other things that he's turned to sh1t by touching it.

[Canuckistanian]

4. The Age of Science and Reason is dead

At least in America. Welcome to the "New Dark Ages".

[Roland99]

9. Pandering to radical clerics and their fanatics

[phylny]

71. The thing is, I really don't think he "morally" gives a rat's ass about

this at all.

[Roland99]

82. Oh, I think he does. At least to an extent.

You see, the only group of people he really holds himself to are radical
pseudo-Christians. The pro-war chickenhawks and the corporatists are
glad-handing him to get their way and usually do. However, the
pseudo-Christians are people he identifies with (being as he's a Born-Again,
himself). To go against that grain would be a huge departure from norm and
certainly open up the November elections for a Democratic sweep as it would
marginalize that group and I can't imagine him doing that.

[phylny]

84. So politically, he does. Morally?

As I said, I don't think he cares one bit.

[Roland99]

87. On his moral scale, yeah.

As long as the life is white, Christian, and American.

[Lost-in-FL]

135. And straight

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[howmad1]

154. Bet he'll give a rat ass.......

....when he, or his wife, or kids are writhing in pain and facing a horrible death from a sickness only stem cells can cure. I guarantee the son-of-a-bitch will change his tune in a heart beat. Please God, help us from this ass hole.

[Mad_Dem_X]

175. Exactly - they don't care unless it happens to them

or someone in their family. That's the conservative way: If I and mine aren't affected, who gives a sh*t!

[rodeodance]

5. photo op of event here

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_on_go_pr_wh/stem_cells;_ylt=AvPxALIXTjQDBxys0l5oLKms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OTB1amhuBHNlYwNtdHM-

[rodeodance]

7. AP story here: Bush vetoes stem cell bill as promised

from my photo link above.

....Bush vetoes stem cell bill as promised

By MARY DALRYMPLE, Associated Press Writer 11 minutes ago

WASHINGTON -
President Bush cast the first veto of his 5 1/2-year presidency Wednesday, rejecting legislation to ease limits on federal funding for research on stem cells obtained from embryos.
ADVERTISEMENT

"This bill would support the taking of innocent human life of the hope of finding medical benefits for others. It crosses a moral boundary that our society needs to respect, so I vetoed it," Bush said at a White House event where he was surrounded by 18 families who "adopted" frozen embryos that were not used by other couples, and then used those leftover embryos to have children.

"Each of these children was still adopted while still an embryo and has been blessed with a chance to grow, to grow up in a loving family. These boys and girls are not spare parts," he said.

The veto came a day after the Senate defied Bush and approved the legislation, 63-37, four votes short of the two-thirds margin needed to override. White House officials and Republican congressional leaders claimed it was unlikely that Congress could override the veto.

Bush's support was the stron

[Roland99]

8. I've already updated the OP with the AP article

:)

[rodeodance]

12. oops, sorry.

[Cronus Protagonist]

168. Here's an illustration of George's "Moral Boundary" (graphic)

http://bushspeaks.com/home.asp?did=220

[rodeodance]

10. Bush, second from left, smiles at Cardinal Theodore McCarrick,

AP Photo: President Bush, second from left, smiles at Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, left, during a photo opportunity

[geardaddy]

61. Notice how the kid in the picture is white

and from Texas?

[54anickel]

128. But I thought Snow said no photos, no ceremony. Like they could

turn away from THIS opportunity. So, are the "snowflake" families taking ALL of the unused embryos, or just enough for the couples who want but cannot conceive a child of their own? Or are these people perfectly capable of conceiving but choose adopting the embryos instead? There are plenty of none-white and/or "special needs" real, living, breathing babies in need of good homes too.

[mark11727]

180. Interesting note...

Some are predicting the veto could hurt GOP congressional candidates in close races this November. And the issue split the Republican senators who are thinking about running to replace Bush in the White House in 2008.

Gawd, I hope so.

[UpInArms]

6. so glad that the Dimson has once again proven to the world how

incredibly stupid and narrow he is.

What a worthless mouth-breather.

[bamacrat]

11. We didnt need to get rid of cancer anyways...

Not to mention every other disease ailment or whatever you need, but thats cool. Atleast God told him to do this and not the spider in the web inside his head.

[E-Z-B]

13. Douchebag!

[Vinca]

14. I consider this to be a true test of being a decent person.

Part of me wants to stick pins in a voodoo doll and hope the Chimp comes down with Lou Gehrig's disease or some other horrible malady that might benefit from embryonic stem cell research. But I won't. Unlike our "moral" president who saves embryos and slaughters living children, I am a decent person. Besides, I don't know where to buy a voodoo doll.

[Orion The Hunter]

18. But hey, the Death Penalty is still a go!

Great that he fights this strongly for the unborn, but not so hard for those who may wind up on death row due to having no viable opportunities aside from crime. How does he reconcile this?!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

148. Or a lousy attorney.

Of the 150 he put to death in Texas, I'll guarantee a couple of them were innocent.

[man4allcats]

20. There's supposed to be a shop

somewhere over on Montrose Blvd. here in Houston that sells all kinds of black magic stuff. I'm on my way over there now. At this point I'm willing to try anything, no matter how far fetched - even voodoo, in an effort to finally be rid of this ignorant fool.

[Bridget Burke]

51. Do you mean the Magick Cauldron?

I haven't been there, but the shop seems a bit wholesome for your needs. www.magickcauldron.com/index.html

Nothing wrong with "wholesome"--I've been meaning to drop by.

I'd suggest you check out the botanicas. They are also, mostly, run by very fine people. But the less reputable ones might have something behind the counter, or in the back room.

Not that I'd ever burn a black candle....

[man4allcats]

88. Thanks for the reference.

In fact, "Magick Cauldron" is the name of the shop I had in mind though I've never been there. Actually, I'm not really a black candle burner either. Mostly I was just exercising a little hyperbole in my earlier post to blow off some steam in light of dimson's latest though predictable executive faux pas; i.e., his veto of funding for stem cell research. He is really such a remarkable fool. If I truly thought black magic might help, I'd be the first to stick a pin in a voodoo doll. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it will take more than that to be rid of this spoiled mental defective. Again though, thanks for the tip. Much more of "the decider's" foolishness and I may check out the botanicas after all!

[Bridget Burke]

90. Right now, we need to build up our personal energies....

Maybe, later, we'll need to find a Black Cat Bone or some Goofer Dust. (But that stuff is scary.)

[Straight Shooter]

54. I know how to make a voodoo doll.

But I prefer to assume the person, in whose image the doll is made, has a soul. I don't think I can make that big a leap as regards bush.

I'll just keep repeating my prayer that he gets what he deserves, nothing more, nothing less. May the Universe give him what he deserves, three-fold.

[Prophet 451]

55. Make one

Just make a vaguely human shape out of Play-Doh or something similar, make sure you convince yourself mentally to associate it with W, then hack it to bits. Won't do any good but it'll make you feel better.

[Laurab]

93. I had to check EBAY just to see....

they have all kinds. Even a GB one, that can also be used as a dog chew toy, which was kind of tempting to me. I don't want one, myself, but if I thought for a minute it'd do any damn good, I'd buy ten of them.

I admit, I'm still thinking about the dog chew toy one - I'd have to get one for both of my dogs, and it wasn't all that cheap, but I would get hours of joy seeing my dogs destroying it! Hey, maybe there's a cheaper one under dog toys...

There are no words to describe how I feel about the resident-in-chief anymore. His antics of the past few days, his destruction of our country and much of the world over the past few years......now this, something that could potentially save lives, save people from debilitating diseases, give people HOPE. "Compassionate Conservative" indeed.

[girl gone mad]

100. It wouldn't effect him, anyhow.

The elites will just be able to fly to China or Korea to get stem cell related treatments.

[hyphenate]

101. You can make one yourself

There are enough websites online where you can learn how to do it. The only thing you might have some trouble with is getting something that the troglodyte might have handled or been associated with. On the other hand, there is likely enough negative energy in our country right now toward him that you can tap directly into it. :)

[Felinity]

112. Highly recommend not going that way . . .

not that there's anything wrong with that.

The Lords of Darkness that these evil ones serve actually feast on negativity of any sort. Even our anger against there misdoings can make them stronger.

What they really hate and fear is Light. Send a little rainbow, hugs & kisses and a smiley face! :grouphug: Otherwise, you'll be lowering yourself to their strategy, like reacting to the slaughter of 3000 of our citizens by sending 2500+ of our young men and women to their death, destroying a whole country (or two, if you count Afghanistan), and plunging the Middle East into chaos. AND THEY--the ones who crave the suffering of others--LOVE IT!

Fighting fire with fire only works with oil well fires.

Taking the high road is a bitch, but the lower road is dark, slimey, and very very cold.

[hyphenate]

136. I, ummm....wasn't serious

At least for the most part. It's still an interesting idea, though. Enough white magic would definitely help, though, but since these bastards are practicing the deepest sort of black magic, we'll need to have the greatest amount of influence and determination to succeed.

[Felinity]

174. Glad to hear it! Sorry for getting alarmed.

Have you by any chance wondered if there's some sort of advanced mind control operating from these thugs, in addition to their marketing and message control? It's like there's this awful sucking sound from the Ability to Reason being vacuumed out of peoples brains. Just a thought.

[Raksha]

171. Besides, I've heard the karmic blowback is terrible...

I wouldn't take a chance with that kind of thing.

[Occulus]

179. Let me ask this:

Would it give me bad karma to hope karma works on them? Or do I not need to hope for that, because it "works on" everyone?

Oh shit: do I get bad karma for asking if I'll get bad karma? Exactly how many nits does karma pick, anyway?

Not trying to be snarky here, but... if it gives me bad karma to hope for true justice of some sort, justice which mere legalities cannot provide... why is that bad?

[Felinity]

186. A little karmic truth

For better or worse, everything you say or do or think has an effect. Your reality is the reflection of the totality of your energy; it is your Effect. "Do whatever you do, because everything works;" in other words, everything has a commensurate effect. I don't think it matters much if you wish for someone's karma to catch up with them, (futile as that may be, because "karma is karma,") but if you allow yourself to fester in anger, that will certainly affect YOU.

Here's a little bad news: Bush, like it or not, is the Effect that all of us have collectively created. If I were a Native American, I might look on the current mess as well-deserved karma for stealing our land and cheating our Nations. If I were Japanese, I might be celebrating the retribution for the wanton slaying of civilians at the end of WWII, which began before Hiroshima and Nagasaki, by the way. As for myself, I wonder what alternate reality I should be in because. . .

I CAN'T HAVE POSSIBLY DONE ANYTHING BAD ENOUGH TO DESERVE A PRESIDENT LIKE HIM.
Denial is also futile, but it sometimes provides temporary comfort.

OK here's the good news: the Law of Grace trumps the Law of Karma. Pray for Grace, which is basically what the phrase below is, a complete acknowledgment of the fundamental law of this dimension: Devotion to the Mystic Law of simultaneous cause and effect in all that there is. In a way, it's like affirming the Truth is a get out of karmic jail free card.

[BlueStorm]

117. Hey here ya go Vinca

http://bushvoodoo.cf.huffingtonpost.com/



Blue

[Vinca]

172. Excellent! Throw in a few darts and you've got a board game. nt

[PegDAC]

145. You can get one

at www.impeachbushgame.com.

[Lochloosa]

16. I applaud * for doing this

Using his FIRST F****** VETO for something 70% of the people want.

Thank you Asshole.

I really believe this will cost him 5 points in the next approval ratings!

[Ishoutandscream2]

21. Yes, Dimson shows he's once again out of step with America

Barring election fraud, the Democrats should do very well in the mid-terms.

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. I really doubt that this will cost him any support

Of the 35% or so that support him, do you really think that many of those people feel very strongly that this bill should have been signed?

[LostinVA]

42. Agreed -- because Nancy Reagan isn't exactly a Progressive

And, there's alot of Conservatives who are on the same page with her about this...

[MissB]

47. I rather hope it'll cost him the last 30%

but I'll take 5%.

[E-Z-B]

17. Is this something we can divide the GOP and republican voters with?

[Contradistinction]

64. Absolutely

The best way to divide the GOP & get the voters to swing to us is to find out if they are snooping through our gun purchase records. I believe they are. But even if they aren't.....Make it up!

[bluestateguy]

19. Stem cell research will go forward

In other countries, from private foundations and state governments. I expect this policy to be overturned sometime in 2009 under a new president.

[DUyellow]

24. november

win a couple seats in november and it will not be a problem; it only needs 3 more votes.

[MindPilot]

36. Big pharma will still get their piece of the action

They are all big multinationals so the research can go on in other countries while Bush panders to his base in the US. It's a win-win for the neocons and their corporate masters.

[BrightKnight]

143. They would rather have it heavily subsidized. - n/t

[tinfoil tiaras]

22. You have GOT to be kidding me?!?!

FREAK. :mad: :mad:

[NickB79]

25. 400,000 frozen embryos and counting

Are currently in deep freeze in the US, left over from IVF techniques in fertility clinics.

We can barely find enough parents to adopt the children already born, let alone 400,000 MORE embryos.

Let's see the Bush twins step up and each take a couple embryos into their wombs.

[Orrex]

29. No, you mean 400,000 human beings with full rights and protections

Honestly, you haven't been reading your literature.

[BlueEyedSon]

30. Before or after they go to fight in Viet-Raq?

[ihelpu2see]

34. Yes, our Christian Army in waiting!!!

[WarhammerTwo]

48. They're only frozen if they're wanted.

At least to the best of my knowledge. Typically, when parents go to fertitlity clinics and make embryos, they freeze them in case they want to try for another kid down the road. If they don't want to keep the "kids" the couple has three choices:

1) Destroy them
2) Donate to science
3) Donate to another couple

When choice 3 is made, the embryos typically go to a couple already waiting for a donation. Those embryos then become the responsibility of that new couple. If no couples are ready to adopt the embryos, most couples go with the first two options because it costs a ton to store them. And everyone knows the clinics won't store the things for free. Maybe Bush can pony up some federal money to store all the left over, unused and unwanted embryos until they can all get adopted.

My argument is (which no one ever seems to mention and it really PISSES me off) that since most of these embryos are going to be distroyed as biohazardous waste, why not fund the science that will put them to good use?! NO ONE EVER MENTIONS THIS! They are going to be destroyed no matter what! That's the true waste of human life. Not using them for scientific research. This is the mantra Democrats need to repeat over and over again as part of their platform for stem cell research. Fertility clinics DESTROY hundreds of thousands of embryos. I say stop the destruction, construct the cure and federally fund embryonic stem cell research using unused IVF blastocysts.

[Thor_MN]

162. The options to keep the frozen embryos are becoming limited

Clinics don't want to become parties to lawsuits werre couples divorce and then sue for "custody" of the embryos. The liability is not worth the storage fees - I think the standard setup is that the extra embryos are destroyed upon successful implantation.

The proper view is that this veto forces the total destruction of excess embyros, rather than achieving some good out of what is going to happen anyway, the destruction of excess embryos.

[wicket]

27. May he rot and burn in hell

With apologies to Johnny Cash.

[Catfight]

28. This is one fu'ked up presidency, but this doesn't surprise me. Wonder

what his poll numbers are now? The voting of a mad man.

[Mojambo]

31. Bush to people suffering: Suck it!

You want to cure cancer? Pray, motherfuckers!

[OhioChick]

32. What a damn shame........

So much for trying to cure disease, in the US anyway.

[ihelpu2see]

33. I truely believe that ALL Dem. Candidates should run with this. This will

assure victory in November.

[President Kerry]

157. Dems aren't running against *, and the repugs running for reelection

aren't stupid enough to align themselves with * on this of all issues. God, I hope I'm wrong!

[underpants]

35. " ... As Promised" Oh gee what a swell stand up guy he is

Puhleeeeeeeease

Nice headline there AP/ABC

I guarantee that was written in the White House.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

37. That STUPID son of a bitch.

I really dislike the most ignorant president in History.

I hope to hell he ends up with Alzheimers and retains enough memory to know he killed his own cure.

[Tracer]

38. Even if the bill had a veto-proof 67 votes in the Senate ...

... what do you think the chances are of Mr. KnowNothing issuing a SIGNING STATEMENT?

My guess 110%.

[Felinity]

113. Am I the only one expecting a veto override

This is my post from another thread-pardon the redundancy, but noone else seems as twistedly paranoid as I am:

Could the Rethugs be strategizing? Bush vetos, passing out roasted pig to starving Christofacists. Then they scrape together a few more votes, and override the veto, thereby negating all the "Lemmings to the Sea" performances of the past 6 years.

HEADLINE:

Congress stands up to Bush Administration! They're responding to their constituants--all better now.

Have a little cake, AND eat a little cake. YUMM.

Where's the PIG?

[KamaAina]

39. Our long national nightmare of scientific progress is finally over!

Thank Dog that Our Great President Bush took this bold, brave stand for pain and suffering!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[deadparrot]

40. Fucking lunatic.

Embryos that would have been discarded anyway, a chance for millions to have a better quality of life, and it's blocked by an extremist religious agenda.

I pray to god that none of these fundamentalist freaks ever develops, or has a loved one develop, a disease that could be cured with stem cell research. :puke:

[catmandu57]

41. One more time

chimpy* to the Americans living in the 21st. century "GO FUCK YOURSELF".

[radfringe]

43. thank god clumps of cells desitined for the medical waste bucket

have been saved!!!! meanwhile millions of ill and injured people are destined to continue to suffer and die... gee that makes alot of sense :NOT:

so here's the deal? you are protected by the repubs up until the point you are born - then the reubs pretty much ignore you (unless you have alot of money to give to them), but when you end up in a hospital bed, hooked up to machines then an act of Congress stops you from dying...

what's wrong with this picture?

[E-Z-B]

52. Your statement reminds me of this picture

[Heywood J]

178. Ah,

the picture dropped about $7T off the debt...

[KamaAina]

44. ** just took the "compassionate" out of "compassionate conservative".

As if it were ever there in the first place. :puke:

[Bretttido]

45. This bastard has sunk to a new low

:grr:

[thoughttheater]

46. A Visual Explanation Of The Stem Cell Issue

To see the stem cell debate explained with visuals and how the political argument put forth by the President is ultimately an absurd manipulation of the facts...link here:

www.thoughttheater.com

[sarcasmo]

49. Please explain to me why the Christan Zealots hate Science.

Kick and Nom for the sure stupidity.

[valerief]

76. They don't hate science. They love money. They make money

off a dumb, sick populace.

[awoke_in_2003]

166. I believe they hate science

because it flies in the face of religion. Religion calls for unquestioned faith. Science demands facts and use of scientific method.

[CGrantt57]

50. Well, being from New York...

There's only one thing for me to say to Bush*.

Fuck you, you fucking fuck!

It loses something without the accent, though...

[Janice325]

53. May the fucker rot in hell!

Oh, wait. WE"RE the ones in hell.
Jeez.
:puke:
k&r

[Gregorian]

56. What a total TURD! My sister has MS, you MF'er.

People like my sister with MS could have been helped by government funding for stem cell research.

But Shithead, like so many others, believes that it requires killing fetuses.

These people have caused more suffering on planet earth than any other group in the history of mankind. I hope they get what they deserve. That's all.

[hamsterjill]

85. Total Turd - Totally Agree

Bush spit in the face of the millions of people alive today who could benefit from stem cell research.

And I don't buy the argument that gains from the research are decades away. So what if they are? You've got to start sometime. And that time could have been today.

Idiots like Bush don't understand things like illness, etc. unless they are personally affected. They don't have the ability to have empathy for anyone else.

Pro-life? Give me an alka seltzer...

[Beelzebud]

57. Bush to modern society: GET FUCKED.

Let's just declare the world flat, the earth the center of the universe, and start closing the universities.

I'm so sick of this fuck-up that is our president....

Help me, I'm in hell...

[hoghead]

184. Intelligent Post

So... let me get this straight. If you veto a bill that supports the government funding for research of something that has produced no answers, but instead just a bunch of supposed "maybes", then that means you are a moron who thinks "the world is flat and the earth is the center of the universe." Maybe you are the one who needs to wake up and face the fact that ASC research, and not ESC research, is the thing that is producing results.

[adamuu]

58. embryo = magical + effortless

My personal opinion about eggs.

Without the ability to produce fertilized eggs, we'd be in real trouble. Science cannot do it for us. In that way, it is quite magical and special and beautiful.

However, they are in great supply. They are cheaper than dirt... all you need are two humans of opposite sex and voila... .all the embroyos you could ever want. We're lucky that way, but there's no reason to think this fortunate situation will change without warning.

The real "value" in children comes after they are born, after adults have spent time and resources raising them and providing a heathly environment for them. Resources are spent that cannot be recovered if the child (god forbid) dies.

This is why the "adopted embryos" are totally inconsequential to Bush's argument. They are embryos who's adoptive parents have invested much much more time and resources than it took to produce a ball of cells (magically, but effortlessly) in the first place.


Before you jump on me - it's a grey area, and the is no right answer- this is where i lie in the grey area.

[bkcc]

59. I think this was all just a publicity stunt.

The Republicans KNEW that it would be vetoed if they didn't get the necessary 67 votes to override the veto. Stem cell research is something that the majority of Americans favor, so all the Republicans who voted YES were able to appease their constituents and can now say that they did what they could, but it was Bush who killed the legislation. All it took were a few Senators to hold out in order to preserve Bush's veto power and things stayed status quo.

At least that's how I see it....

P.S. Wouldn't it be poetic justice to see Dubya suffer from Parkinson's or Alzheimer's later in life?

[icycanadian]

149. Much ado about nothing...

I think bkcc hit the nail on the head. This whole stem cell research drama has been nothing but a well organized exercise in political theater.

Everybody knew Bush would use his veto and that it would not be overridden. Yet despite this, politicians still staged their whole song and dance like it really mattered, like the outcome was not already known.

Like the constitutional amendment to ban flag burning or the attempt to ban gay marriage, this stem cell circus was probably first conceived by social scientists or PR people analyzing the results of focus groups and opinion polls. They no doubt concluded that this stem cell issue was something dramatic and high profile that politicians facing re-election could take a principled stand on, one that would appeal to a certain constituent they need to get re-elected.

I am sure that most politicians are quite happy with the outcome of all this nonsense.

[President Kerry]

158. Welcome to DU.

Great 1st post, food for thought. Rove is STILL underestimated by some people.

[GainesT1958]

60. Dub proves he's a coward, once again...

He was a coward during Viet Nam...

He was a coward with Harken Energy...

He was a coward as Governor of Texas...

He came by the White House in a cowardly fashion...

He was a coward in getting us into Iraq...

He was a coward in not meeting with grieving families of troops killed in HIS war...

He approved of the cowardly outing of an under-cover CIA agent to enact retribution for her husband telling the truth...

And now he cowardly vetoes a bill--in secret--that would give hope to those suffering from Parkinson's, paralysis, and many other ailments, including thousands of American children...

Dub, you're just a spoiled, arrogant coward!!!:grr:

B-)

[raysr]

63. Can the congress run

it through again to gain the 4 more votes needed for veto proof?

[valerief]

83. I wish the Congress could/would mutiny! n/t

[Imalittleteapot]

62. "These boys and girls are not spare parts"

Huh?

[wordpix2]

65. * morals=protect embryonic cells while murdering Iraqis for oil. Imbecile

and moran. :puke:

[Imperialism Inc.]

66. So when they freeze the embryo does the soul get frozen too?

It is the moment of conception right? Is it a full sized soul or does it grow with embryo? (By the way, if embryos have souls do bacteria?).

What if there is a mishap? Does the embryo soul go to purgatory?

How do non-fundy religious people view this? Are you ok with it because you don't buy the soul comes at the moment of conception thing?

[valerief]

73. Soul is music, nothing else

And quite good music, I might add.

[Imperialism Inc.]

78. So good, so good,

'cause I got you

:)

[valerief]

67. Abstinence should be banned because it denies life.

Uh, along with war and the death penalty and toxic substances needlessly created by industry and needless deaths from handguns and assault rifles. Oh, the list goes on and on.

But that abstinence really gets my goat. All those dead babies flushed away in tampons!

[geardaddy]

74. That's right!

According to their logic, women should be having sex as often as possible from the time they're 11 or 12 until they're in their 40s.

[valerief]

79. Yeah, and nuns and priests should be executed. That'll show

'em who's God!

[phylny]

89. Actually, following *'s logic,

IVF should be banned. After all, all those children, being "murdered" when they aren't implanted.

Yeah, bet THAT would go over well with the wealthy, white, infertile women in the U.S. whose only chance to have a baby they want is via IVF.

Edited to add: I wish I were a White House Reporter:

Question to Tony Snow: "Does the president plan to discuss legislation to ban all artificial insemination, since the discarded fertilized eggs are murdered?"

[valerief]

97. And war s/b banned, because it's killing life to save life. n/t

[Rex]

68. 'taking of innocent human life'

How can this criminal even say such words? His whole Administration is SWIMMING in the blood of innocents! The history books will NOT be kind to the Bush klan, I guarantee it.

[VaYallaDawg]

Doncha just love the irony of the wording?

He deplores "the taking of innocent human life."

Can anybody show him where Iraq and Afghanistan are on the map - please?

[valerief]

75. Yeah, and the Texas Execution Chamber, his favorite spot. n/t

[Son Of Spy]

69. Yes fans it is the Reverse Midas Touch

Everything he paws turns to shit.

[Jesterstear]

70. Did anyone really think the Repubs cared about the vote?

Is there anyone out there that doesn't realize that this whole thing was nothing more than a Republican plan to try and sway some votes? Now someone like Frist, who is considering a run for President, can harp about how he put aside the religious issues and stuck with science... see how nice a guy he is? But President Bush won't allow him to do that, and gosh darn, we just can't get enough votes to override that veto. The Repubs had this planned from the beginning so that the Dems would not be able to override.

Once again, Congress has wasted our money.

[HEyHEY]

72. On behalf of my Brother in law with MS - FUCK YOU GEORGE

[KamaAina]

86. Perhaps Canada can take the opportunity to steal a march on us

and lure all of our best scientists up North.

Even Harper can't be crazy enought to go along with a stunt like this, right? Right??

[HEyHEY]

91. No, he wouldn't - he's knows that'd be the end of him

I actually hear in Montreal they are doing some amazing work with SC.

[HonorTheConstitution]

77. What a slap in the face to all educated people

We are again laughing stock of the world! I did not expect other. F*** this stupid pResident! Time to teach him a lesson about moral!

Hope he or one of his daughters get a nice desease one day and the only cure is that he has to send them overseas for treatment where remedy is available only derived from steamcell research. And they will refuse to help!

Moral?

[merci_me]

80. Isn't it time the reich-wing start protesting IVF clinics?

After all they destroy thousands of fertilized cells. The women going to those clinics are exercising "choice" too. Of course, hundreds of women going to fertility clinics are going for everyday fertility counseling and treatments, the same as women going to Planned Parenthood have to sprint through the protesters, to get birth control pills/shots and pap smears. Family planning is family planning. The difference is are you "wasting" one or dozens of fertilized eggs?

I want to be clear, I am all for CHOICE, whatever the choice a woman makes. However, it just seems so ironic to me that the reich-wing is ok with the hundreds of fertilized cells waiting to be trashed. Were is their outrage?

I just don't see how you can have it both ways. What the hell are they protecting? Why don't the have compassion for the millions of people who will continue to suffer diseases that could be cured?

The signature on the veto will live in infamy. May it be the bastard's legacy to lunacy.

[WindRavenX]

81. fuck you Bush

You monster.

[KansDem]

92. As a diabetic diagnosed 3 years ago, I say "F*ck you, Bush!"

And while I'm at it, take your f*cking hand out of my pocket, you thief! You and your big pharma friends!!!

[Maestro]

94. What a shithead! -nt

[hyphenate]

95. Bush said the measure "crosses a moral boundary."

What the fuck does this morally challenged fucking bastard of a mother fucking witch know about morality? Goddamned bastard needs his fucking morally and intellectually challenged brain to be used by the pro-choice movement to show exactly why abortion is a necessary and important right.

[DanCa]

96. Well if this were a fair world

President Cruel would be in my wheel chair and I would be in the oval office. Funny were borth born on the same day too.

[valerief]

99. Proves there's no truth to astrology no matter what Nancy Reagan

wants you to believe.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slestak]

110. I'm glad to see

you take such a perverse delight in championing a completely unlikeable shithead.

Good luck to you.

[timontheleft]

130. " . . . being a black republican is very hard."

So?

[cagoldensun5050]

170. "being a black republican is very hard..."

Gee, I wonder why?

[BrewAz]

102. Check out USA Today comments...

about the Shrub's veto....it is quite hilarious to see some of the (I assume) right wing neo-con comments.

If you have a few minutes...it is worth checking out.

BrewAz

[LostInAnomie]

103. Man, it would be a shame if * would...

... become paralyzed just below the brain stem. Completely functionless, breathing with the aid of a machine, defecating into a bag. You know just like all of those "little people" that he just essentially told to fuck off. That sure would be a shame.

[bliss_eternal]

152. ...well, he's already brain dead,

at least as far as I'm concerned. ;)

But you never know what may come. I seem to recall a president that had little regard for the mentally disabled, yet later he was stricken with a form of mental impairment (Alzheimers). Still can't believe so many felt so sorry for him. :eyes:

[Az_lefty]

104. Utterly disgusting. The fool-on-the-hill hiding behind a baby

[Monkeyman]

105. This is a slap in the face to us veterans who suffer

Those of us who suffer from Agent Orange and related problems need this research to save our life;s The kids coming home from Iraq wounded and suffering from the unknown need this research. So let these replugs know they are killing us

[MCMetal]

106. What A Retarded Simian

"This bill would support the taking of innocent human life of the hope of finding medical benefits for others. It crosses a moral boundary that our society needs to respect, so I vetoed it," Bush said ..................................

Obviously invading sovereign nations for oil and over outright lies doesn't cross that threshold .
Good call , Pretzeldent

[Bushladen]

107. Cares about life??

How can someone care about a 19 week old embryo and not take the same concern about a 19 year old soldier?

[Bushladen]

108. Ooops

19 day old

[SlavesandBulldozers]

111. he cares about them.

they get funerals with honors don't they?

[bliss_eternal]

153. ...that he won't attend.

:eyes:

[Fresh_Start]

109. Ironic using IVF children as rationale

for stopping research on embryos. If there hadn't been research on embryos, there would not have been any IVF children.

[Duncan Grant]

114. Yeah, he's a real Harry Truman kind of President, isn't he? n/t

[ursula law]

115. bush potentially killed millions today

if the stem cells live up to their hype

so much for being "prolife"

[HockeyMom]

116. They will never become babies, Snowflake, or otherwise

without the couple's CONSENT. Ditto for the freezer, the lab sink, or stem cell research.

These embryos are those that the COUPLE has designated to be DESTROYED, and subsequently, they have given their permission to use them in research. They, obviously, do not want any more children themselves, whether giving birth to them themselves, or implanting in somebody else. As a woman and a mother, I find the latter to be creepy and would NEVER do it myself.

What doesn't Mr. Bush and his Fundies not understand about this concept? These embryos are the PROPERTY of the couples. You cannot force a couple to adopt out their living, breathing children, so how is this any different?

[wellstone dem]

118. My 13 year old nephew with juvenile diabetes

deserves life too. Not a life cut short by this awful disease. I truly hate this man. I never realized how much until just now.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OhioChick]

120. ..............

:popcorn:

[SlavesandBulldozers]

121. lol.

getting off to a fine start arencha?

[oasis]

122. Turn on C-SPAN. Sen. Tom Harkin is explaining how immoral it is for Bush

to say it's murder to use stem cells after Aug. 9th 2001. But not before.

"Bush is the moral Ayatollah" Harkin said.

[caligirl]

123. Baby, as the parent of a diabetic son, if I need to vent

and in this case those of us close to this will, they can use any word they want when it comes to the worst pResident in this countries history.

as parents this gets deeply personal and very harmful to the nation as a whole. Bush further divided this country today. He deepened the anger the people in political parties feel toward each other. He made it more likely that violence against him and GOP candidates on his side might occur during election season. It will be harder for cooler heads to prevale in a climate of total takeover of the government by he and Cheney. Our democracy is fucked and it just got worse today. Words?

[ursula law]

125. red stater alert

self-expression is trashy?

[Pastiche423]

126. Allowed?

Ever hear of free speech?

Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him, Fuck him!

[ursula law]

127. lmao!

[Roland99]

132. .

That fucking offending the fucking shit out of me!






;)

[Pastiche423]

140. So glad I could be of assistance

[Lost-in-FL]

138. Does the word FORNICATE sound better?

It is too long. We rather use the F word, less typing.

[caligirl]

139. Is it as offensive as this...........Crash probe looks at diabetes

CAUSE OF ERRATIC DRIVING SOUGHT AFTER TWO DEATHS
By Leslie Griffy and Kimra McPherson

CHP investigators are looking into the possibility that a diabetic coma or blackout might have caused a Paso Robles man to drive erratically, lose control of his truck and cause a fiery crash that killed two people Monday night in San Jose.

Meanwhile the families of the two victims, Mary Bernstein and Robert Conway, both 20, are preparing for a memorial service for the two former high school classmates who recently had begun dating.

As Bernstein's family struggles to deal with the death of their eldest daughter, they have taken the extraordinary step of asking for contributions in their daughter's name to be sent to any diabetes organization.

The news that the driver, John Robert Mayfield, might have been suffering complications from diabetes struck Lisa Bernstein, Mary's mother, who suffered from gestational diabetes during her pregnancies with Mary and her two siblings. She said she remembers the spacey, dizzy feeling she would get when her blood sugar was out of whack. Now she wonders if some kind of criteria can be developed for evaluating diabetic drivers.

Mayfield, 51, has not been arrested. The Highway Patrol investigation into the tragic accident is ongoing, Sgt. Bob Buckles said.

``We've heard diabetes could be a factor,'' he said, because Mayfield's family told investigators that Mayfield is a diabetic. But until officers review Mayfield's medical records, he said, nothing is certain. The CHP is also investigating whether alcohol was involved.

Mayfield, who declined an interview request from the Mercury News, had a clean driving record, according to the Department of Motor Vehicles. He had been involved in two accidents in San Luis Obispo County since 2003, but neither was his fault.

Mayfield was seen driving erratically for nine miles on Interstates 680 and 280 before exiting on 11th Street at around 8:30 p.m. He drove his white Ford F-150 at high speed off the ramp and onto an embankment. The truck smashed into three cars that were stopped side by side at a traffic signal on the one-way street, causing a fiery crash that killed Bernstein and Conway and sent 10 more people to the hospital.

CHP officer Steve Perea said earlier this week that Mayfield does not remember the crash.

About 20.8 million Americans live with diabetes, according to the American Diabetes Association. Most are able to control their symptoms, but since a diabetic's body doesn't properly process glucose -- the sugar that feeds the brain -- the disorder can lead sufferers to black out, become disoriented, or slip into a coma.

The DMV does not track how many accidents are caused annually by diabetic drivers experiencing blood-sugar problems. The office revokes very few licenses of diabetics for medical reasons each year.

Mary Bernstein was about to start her senior year at the University of California-Santa Cruz, where she was studying microbiology and thinking about where to go for graduate school.

``She wasn't sure if she wanted to be a pharmacist, a doctor or find the cure for cancer,'' Lisa Bernstein said.

Conway had just graduated from Evergreen Valley College and was about to start classes as an art major at San Jose State.

The two had been friends since high school. Living just blocks apart, they would walk home from Oak Grove High School together.

A public memorial service for Mary Bernstein and Robert Conway will be held at 3 p.m. Saturday at Evergreen Valley High School, 3300 Quimby Road, San Jose.

In lieu of flowers, the Bernstein family requests donations be made to any diabetes organization, and the Conway family requests donations be made to the Robert Charles Conway Memorial Fund c/o Comerica Bank, 5601 Silver Creek Valley Road, San Jose, 95138.

[Lost-in-FL]

141. That is F.U.B.A.R.

Fucked Up beyond repair, just like our "pro life, pro death penalty, pro war, anti progress, pro corporate slavery" leadership in the White House.

:hug: Sorry that touches you so close to home.

[caligirl]

144. Thanks, my son just had his second DMV hearing to allow them to pry into

1. his medical records pertaining to diabetes management
2. illegal questions about disorders of his parents and siblings they pushed on him not even under this restriction.(asked him to report on his family if they had not reported certain disorders and had nothing to do with him)
3. He has had his license one year barely, has already had two hearings, and he is WITHOUT any tickets, accidents , hospitalizations or seizures due to diabetes. In other words they do carefully watch diabetics and pull their license even if they have emergency care for lows in places other than their car. Doctors and nurses are required by law to report you to the DMV for treatment received for seizures and medical intervention for severe low blood sugar. The seizure can occur anywhere other than the car and they still must report yhou. You loose your license for 6 months. I don't have a problem with some of this but the DMV in California abuses diabetics in the questioning during these hearings.

[Scooter24]

146. oh my...

:popcorn:

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

150. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[abester]

124. Democracy On Paper?

How can america profess to be a democracy when one guy has absolute power?

I don't know about you, but I think for the founders to allow a presedential veto or any more significant role than opening supermarkets and highways demonstrates a serious depature from sanity.

[leesa]

129. What a fool.

[lynne]

131. Why all the upset? Certainly, this should come as no surprise -

- as Bush has said he would do this since his first campaign. It's a promise he made to his base and its a promise he kept. From what I'm hearing and reading, his base is pleased with the veto as that is exactly what they wanted.

We can only hope the veto will be overridden but it doesn't look like it has the votes. Even if it is overridden, Bush is off the hook with his base as he kept his promise to veto.

Looks like we will have to shelve this one until the administration changes and try again.

[Seabiscuit]

133. Liar, liar, pants on fire!

Look, Shrub, you friggin' lying moron! The embryos used in stem cell research are only those designated to be DISCARDED, *NOT* adopted!!!

Better to discard the embryos than use them to save lives, eh? You friggin' moron???

In my state, my wife and I are not allowed to donate our frozen embryos for adoption. So we have to pay $$$ for 3 years in hopes the law will change. Next year, if it doesn't we'll be forced, by law, to discard them.

[Eugene]

134. AP: House Fails to Override Stem Cell Veto

House Fails to Override Stem Cell Veto


Thursday July 20, 2006 12:46 AM

AP Photo WHCD102

By NEDRA PICKLER

Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush rejected legislation Wednesday that could
have multiplied the federal money going into embryonic stem cell research, using
the first veto of his presidency to underscore his stand on the emotionally charged,
life-and-death issue.

A few hours later, the House voted 235-193 to overturn the Bush's veto, 51 short
of the required two-thirds majority.

"This bill would support the taking of innocent human life in the hope of finding
medical benefits for others," Bush said. "It crosses a moral boundary that our
decent society needs to respect."

Most Americans disagree with the president, according to public opinion polls.
A number of lawmakers expressed confidence the legislation would someday become
law and some suggested Bush's stance could hurt Republicans in congressional
elections this fall.

<snip>

Full article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5962370,00.html

[BreweryYardRat]

137. Fuck him.

Half-witted sumbitch.

[Totallybushed]

142. Well, I gues you have to admire him

for keeping a promise x(

Lets see. Is this the first promise he's ever kept?

[bliss_eternal]

155. ...no, he vowed to dismantle roe v. wade.

While roe v. wade still exists for the most part--he's kept his word in that states can now make abortion illegal. One has and others are planning to do the same (Ohio, Louisiana).

How's that for keeping his word? :eyes:

[Totallybushed]

177. As you say,

Roe v Wade still exists. In its entirety. Abortion isn't illegal in any state. Lousiana just passed a law saying that it would become so if RvW was overturned, which it hasn't been.

He's certainly trying, though, isn't he? Just one more justice, just one more. And two years to do it in. November certainly looks important to me. If the Rs actually gain seats instead of losing control of a HOuse or two, Senate Dems would cave even more completely than they already have.

The entire 60s project may just get reversed. I'm voting, how about you? And will our votes actully count?

[bliss_eternal]

185. ...hate to contradict you,

but abortion has been banned in South Dakota. FYI,here's a link to an article stating this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/22/AR2006022202424.html

The measure, which passed the state Senate 23 to 12, makes it a felony for doctors to perform any abortion, except to save the life of a pregnant woman. The proposal still must be signed by Gov. Mike Rounds (R), who opposes abortion.

Because news from overseas tends to be more concise (and truthful) in many cases than ours, here's a link to an article--stating the same from the bbc:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4780522.stm

The statement issued by Gov Rounds also noted the bill was written to ensure existing restrictions on abortion would be enforced during a legal battle.

State proposals to ban abortion are before legislatures in Mississippi, Georgia, Indiana, Missouri, Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee.

edited to add note to original poster: apologies, I did not intend to take your thread off topic. As DU is a community and information resource, I thought it was important to inform a fellow Democratic of information on this issue. :) bliss

[yorkiemommie1]

151. we are going to be a whole NATION left behind

because of this idiot.

[tabasco]

156. Wake me up when this nightmare is over.

What happened to the USA that used to be a pretty decent place to live?

I'm about ready to make the freepers happy and get the hell out of here.

[President Kerry]

159. never, my friend!

This is our country, as it will become painfully evident to the freepers come November. Better days are coming!

[MindMatter]

161. People, listen up. This whole thing was scripted by Rove

Rove knows that 75% of Americans are against this. That is why he archestrated the votes in Congress. He told all the GOP Congressman and Senators in insecure positions that they could feel free to vote for the expanded research with the knowledge that Bush would veto. The Christian fundies were well aware of this game plan, which is why they didn't pitch a bitch about it. They understand their best chance to keep control of Congress after November is to have their vulnerable members appear as if they were rational, caring, humans -- and this year, it is not a bad thing for Republican candidates to get some space between them and Bush.

The whole thing was a Rove plan. Stop talking about it as if there was some significant change in the dynamic. There isn't. The GOP continues to be controlled by Christian fundies and they are continuing their strategy of campaign to the center, govern to the right.

[raccoon]

176. Mindmatter, pay NO attention to that man behind the curtain.

Right on target, you are.

[fujiyama]

163. I hope every politician

that voted against this and Bush especially, has a close family member get some debilitating, painful disease, which may have had solutions because of stem cell research.

Especially, that HellSpawn "Babs" and "Poppy". It's too bad in this world, often people that are the cause for so much pain, never experience any.

[eviltwin2525]

164. What a shmuck....as if that's news!

[L0oniX]

165. BUCK FUSH

Hey don't be masterbating because you will be destroying your future children.:dunce:

[Norrin Radd]

169. republicans need those snowflakes to become babies,

because if they don't, there won't be any children for them to get caught molesting.

[pooja]

173. I think its obvious why he vetoed. If gov't funds research, then

the technology, becomes cheaper. If a private pharma institute develops stem cells, it will be very expensive. Do not think that the research is not happening. It is. Its only staggering because gov't monies cannot be used as grants in Universities, where a lot of great things are discovered and useful for everyone. He is cutting off educational opportunities, he is corporatizing stem-cell research. He doesn't care about the eggs. He doesn't think they are children (he knows). I want to cry about the developments because he has just made science a morality. And he is taking my money (taxes) and deciding for me what I am willing to pay for with that money. It is wrong. I felt like I was choking yesterday listening to his completely uneducated responses. People around the world are once again appalled and disgusted by an idiotic leader of the "free world".

[hoghead]

183. ASC's vs. ESC's

Why should our government fund research that has not produced any actual answers so far, while ASC's have been providing answers for quite some time now. Wake up! ESC's are not producing any useful purposes, although some say otherwise.

[hoghead]

181. I Support Bush's Decision

It is a known fact that ESC's have produced no cures of any sort, and it could take at least another 25 years for it to have any possibility of doing so. However, ASC's have been used to treat diseases for quite some time now. Why continue to to waste our time with ESC research when ASC research is providing answers now?

[pcboss49]

182. Reason is obvious:

The shrub has the drug companies in his back pocket and it is much more profitable to sell drugs to treat the symptoms instead of coming up with cures.....