Israel hits Lebanon bridges, gas stations

[maddezmom]

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Israeli warplanes renewed attacks on Lebanon early Saturday, targeting bridges and fuel storage tanks and gas stations in the east and south, security officials said.

Hezbollah's Al Manar television station said at least three people were killed in an Israeli airstrike in Hermel, in the eastern Bekaa Valley. But security officials said six members of a family were injured when a rocket hit their house in Hermel.

Israeli fighter jets destroyed two bridges in eastern Lebanon, Lebanese officials said, declining to be named because they are not authorized to talk to the media.

The jets pounded a mountainous area near the border with Syria where radio and satellite TV antennas are located, they said.

more:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_

12 Lebanese killed in convoy attack

BEIRUT, Lebanon - At least 12 Lebanese villagers, including women and children, were killed Saturday in what appeared to be an Israeli airstrike on a convoy of vehicles fleeing a village near the border with Israel in southern Lebanon, a witness said.

The convoy was leaving the border village of Marwaheen, when it was attacked. An Associated Press photgrapher said he counted 12 bodies in two cars that were destroyed by the attack shortly after midday.

Several hours earlier, Israeli forces across the border told villagers by loudspeaker to leave the area or else the village would be destroyed. They did not give a reason for the ultimatum.

The convoy of several vehicles was hit near the border fence less than half a mile from the village.

more:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_civilians_killed;_

[TheFarseer]

1. now Israel has gone too far

We could have put that gas in our Escalades as soon as we got involved and stole that gas.

[Deja Q]

3. Exactly!

:D

[Scurrilous]

2. Lebanon: 23 dead in Israel strike on van

Police say at least 23 civilians killed, more wounded when Israeli missile hits van carrying passengers on road in southern Lebanon; Air Force resumes attacks on Hizbullah strongholds in capital, bridge on Beirut-Damascus road bombed

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3276008,00.html

<snip>

"At least 23 civilians, among them women and children, were killed on Saturday when an Israeli missile hit a van carrying passengers on a road in the Tyre area, police said.

A police spokesman said more may have been wounded as the vehicle was directly hit.

According to reports, the passengers were on their way to a UN center when their vehicle was struck."

<snip>

"The Lebanese Health Ministry reported that some 80 people were killed in Lebanon since the IDF offensive began last Wednesday. It was also reported that in the last 24 hours some 55,000 people have asked to leave the country."

[lumpy]

23. Lots of luck people getting out

of Lebanon with bridges, airports, roads, blocked and destroyed. The IDF sure knows how to fight dirty.

[ladjf]

43. No problem when totally unopposed. (Oh, I forgot. Hezbollah is

raining dozens of bottle rockets on Northern Israeli towns.)

[Solo_in_MD]

48. Unfortunately, There are solid tactical reasons for Israel destroying

the transportation infrastructure

[The Stranger]

49. Obliterating innocents is going to get the two soldiers back, right?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Solo_in_MD]

50. Not relevant to the tactical situation

and the civilians are incidental to the IDF (collateral damage...the phrase you love to hate) As I stated before, there are solid reasons to destroy the transportation infrastructure and block in movement and especially out of Lebanon if you are the IDF.

Note that understanding why the IDF is doing certain things does not mean I agree with what Israel is doing.

[lumpy]

53. It is apparent what Israel is doing.

Using the same old methods to get at their 'enemies' without regard for the consequnces or regard for the lives of innocents. In this age of technical advances in communications, spy networks, 'surgical strike' high tech instruments and weapons that warmongers love to brag about, they don't bother to take the time to use them. Gotta' jump right in and start bombing and killing to hell with life.

[Solo_in_MD]

54. Based on what is coming out

it looks fairly limited (I won't use the word surgical) to me. Transportation and Comms infrastructure mostly. No carpet bombing of civilians, or use of unguided area munitions, which is what the rockets being used by Hezbullah are...

Bombing destroy things and hurt people, it does not matter how precise they are. Some civilians are going to get hurt, have gotten hurt, and will get hurt. But civilain casualties and terror do not appear to be the IDF objectives.

[Scurrilous]

55. 104 people killed in Lebanon by Israel...

...100 of them civilians.

"...but civilian casualties and terror do not appear to be the IDF objectives."

*snarf*

"At least 104 people, all but four of them civilians, have been killed in the five-day assault, which has choked Lebanon's economy and forced tourists and foreigners to flee."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/mideast_dc;_ylt=AjHZx63prBGSpe8UiJP0tKqaK8MA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGVna3NhBHNlYwNzc3JlbA--">link

[Solo_in_MD]

56. That shows nothing about IDF intent

IDF is quite good at achieving its military objectives, and will not risk themselves to prevent civilian casualties. If the intent was to kill civilians, it would be much more that 100.

The IDF is focused on closing down movement of personnel out of Lebanon for obvious reasons. They are not aiming for civilians, but some are inevitably being caught in the destruction.

I am not saying what the IDF is doing is right, but ascribing motives to them unsupportable by the facts is hyperbole and lessen the credibility of the rest of us who oppose what is happening there.

[NorthernSun]

58. The same could be said about the Twin Towers couldn't it?

It must be nice to be God's chosen people where you can obliterate any other people you want. As long as it is tactically logical.

[OKNancy]

4. Kick

[IndianaGreen]

5. BBC: Israel kills Lebanese civilians (Marwahin on the Israeli border)

Last Updated: Saturday, 15 July 2006, 16:17 GMT 17:17 UK

Israel kills Lebanese civilians

An Israeli air raid has killed at least 13 Lebanese civilians who were fleeing southern border areas.

Women and children were among those killed when the convoy was hit. "Bodies litter the road," an eyewitness said.

<snip>

A number of families were fleeing their village of Marwahin on the Israeli border when their convoy was struck by missiles, a UN spokesman told the BBC.

Local residents told al-Jazeera TV the villagers were hit after being told to leave Marwahin by the Israelis and then refused shelter by the UN forces.

The main road had been under continuous bombardment, Ahmad Ali Ubayd said.

"Where is the international justice when children, women, and the elderly are killed?" he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5182564.stm

[Scurrilous]

6. Refused shelter by the UN forces?

Maybe the UN feared a repeat of what happened at Qana in '96:

"The Qana shelling took place on April 18, 1996 in Qana, a village located southeast of Tyre, Lebanon. Qana is one possible site for the Biblical Cana, where Jesus is said by John 2 to have turned water into wine. Amid heavy fighting between the Israeli Defense Forces and Hezbollah during "Operation Grapes of Wrath", a Fijian UNIFIL compound in the village was shelled by Israeli artillery. Around 800 Lebanese civilians had taken refuge there to escape the fighting, of whom 106 were killed and around 116 others injured. Four UNIFIL soldiers were also seriously injured. The event has sometimes been referred to as the Qana massacre, for example by Human Rights Watch and the BBC."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana

[jean]

33. "Bodies litter the road." We need pictures to politicize this. What

is the leader of our country doing to stop this carnage? Apparently, nothing.

Oh yeah, he said, "Just wait."

Why can't we see flag-draped coffins? Why aren't we seeing Iraqi occupation dead and dying human beings? People need to see the human suffering and death on their televisions and monitors.

[Scurrilous]

44. Pictures from GD. * Warning: Graphic *

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1641184&mesg_id=1641255

[951-Riverside]

7. I usually support israel but they've become very agressive assholes

I cannot support this.

[IndianaGreen]

8. Lebanon's PM is on TV now saying Israel has no justification

for destroying Lebanon. He is right!

To say that Israel is justified in attacking Lebanon is to say Al-Qaeda was justified in attacking the US on 9-11.

[alarimer]

24. they are now targeting civilian infrastructure

which has nothing to do with the kidnapped soldiers. This is pretty sick.

[Solo_in_MD]

51. Such as?

The transportation and communications facilities are dual use...I have not seen anything that is purely civilian destroyed so far.

- Airfields
- Roads/Bridges
- POL
- Government buildings
- TV stations
- Radio
- Power Stations

Are all justifiable as legitimate targets.

Note that I am not supporting the overall level of destruction as an appropriate response. I am just pointing out that there is military justification for those kind of targets.

[blackspade]

57. please explain...

Please explain what the legit military goals of this operation are.
You keep alluding to them but you don't bother to explain.

Personally if I was a Lebanese gas station owner and my station was bombed for no reason I would be rather pissed.
This action does not serve the advertised purpose which is the return of the IDF soldiers.
This about control and exerting power.
Israel is just following our example in this case.
Attacking another country because they can.
I'm still waiting for the declaration of war and all I here are the crickets chirping a funeral dirge for civilians.

[Solo_in_MD]

60. They are fairly straight forward...

IMO (and that of many others), its quite clear that the IDF objective is to constrain movement within Lebanon. They are trying to make it impossible for the Hezbollah to get the kidnapped soldiers out of the county. Note that Nasrallah has already publicly stated that the kidnapped soldiers were going to be "someplace that the IDF could never get them. The IDF has gone after transportation including bridges, airports and a sea blockade, including convoys of vehicles trying to get into Syria. They have also gone after communications infrastructure and the Hezbollah command structure and personnel (widely scattered stories)in hopes of preventing the coordination of attacks and possibly the transportation of the captives. Finally they have attacked suspected weapon storage or launch areas. Using back plotting radar it is possible to have target grade coordinates well before one of the rockets weapon hits the ground. It looks like the IAF is launching or at least targeting those locations. Hopefully that is clear enough for you.

If the IDF succeeds in making it impossible to move the kidnapped soldiers, then as the noose tightens, someone will give up their location to Israel or the national government, the soldiers will be returned, and the IDF will leave (hopefully). What can be assured is the Israel will do nothing to repair or set right that which was destroyed, whether or not they get their people back or if they are still in Lebanon.

From a military and international perspective, though Israel is taking a very hardball approach to Hezbollah and Lebanon, its probably going to get away with it for those kinds of reasons. Doesn't mean we have to like or condone their tactics.

[Scurrilous]

63. Operation Peace for the IDF

<snip>

"Every neighborhood has one, a loudmouth bully who shouldn't be provoked into anger. He's insulted? He'll pull out a knife. Spat in the face? He'll draw a gun. Hit? He'll pull out a machine gun. Not that the bully's not right - someone did harm him. But the reaction, what a reaction! It's not that he's not feared, but nobody really appreciates him. The real appreciation is for the strong who don't immediately use their strength. Regrettably, the Israel Defense Forces once again looks like the neighborhood bully. A soldier was abducted in Gaza? All of Gaza will pay. Eight soldiers are killed and two abducted to Lebanon? All of Lebanon will pay. One and only one language is spoken by Israel, the language of force.

The war that the IDF has now declared on Lebanon and before it on Gaza, will never be considered another "war of no choice." Let's save that debate from the historians. This is unequivocally a war of choice. The IDF absorbed two painful blows, which were particularly humiliating, and in their wake went into a war that is all about restoring its lost dignity, which on our side is called "restoring deterrent capabilities." Neither in Lebanon nor certainly in Gaza, can anyone formulate the real goals of the war, so nobody knows for sure what will be considered victory or an achievement. Are we at war in Lebanon? With Hezbollah? Nobody knows for sure. If the goal is to remove Hezbollah from the border, did we try hard enough over the last two years through diplomatic channels? And what's the connection between destroying half of Lebanon and that goal? Everyone agrees that "something must be done." Everyone agrees that a sovereign state cannot remain silent when it is attacked within its own borders, though in Israel's eyes Lebanese sovereignty was always subject to trampling, but why should that non-silence be expressed solely by an immediate and all-out blow?

In Gaza, a soldier is abducted from the army of a state that frequently abducts civilians from their homes and locks them up for years with or without a trial - but only we're allowed to do that. And only we're allowed to bomb civilian population centers.

The painful steps taken in Gaza, which included dropping a one-ton bomb on a residential building, or killing an entire family of seven children under cover of darkness in Lebanon, killing dozens of residents, bombing an airport, cutting off electricity and water to hundreds of thousands of people for months were a response lacking any justification, legitimacy or proportion. What goal did it serve? Was the soldier released? Did the Qassams stop? Was deterrence restored? None of that happened. Only lost honor was supposedly restored, and immediately the next evil wind showed up, this time from the north."

more

[951-Riverside]

25. Lebanon is a civilized nation but thanks to Israel

It may soon become an hardline islamic state

[mom cat]

30. Excellent analogy! This was so obviously pre-planned andthe excuse of

the two soldiers is way too flimsy. We must contact everyone we can to raise hell about this outrage.

[Miss Chybil]

59. I think on KO last night someone said it's been planned for five years.

They were just waiting for an excuse.

[Zhade]

46. Kudos to that!

NT!

[TomClash]

9. Reuters: Israel Kills at least 32 in Air Strikes (15 children)

By Laila Bassam

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Israel killed at least 32 civilians on Saturday, including 15 children, in air strikes meant to punish Lebanon for letting Hizbollah guerrillas menace the Jewish state's northern border.

Israel's bombing of Lebanese roads, bridges, ports and airports, as well as Hizbollah targets, is its most destructive onslaught since its 1982 invasion to expel Palestinian forces.

An Israeli missile incinerated a van in south Lebanon, killing 20 people, among them 15 children, in the deadliest single attack of the four-day-old campaign launched by Israel after Hizbollah captured two of its soldiers and killed eight.

Police said the van was carrying two families fleeing the village of Marwaheen after Israeli loudspeaker warnings to leave their homes.

http://reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=newsOne&storyID=2006-07-15T161612Z_01_L11538533_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST.xml

[bemildred]

10. Another stunning victory for our triumphant forces.

And I do mean stunning.
:puke:

[lse7581011]

11. Something * Should be very proud of! - NOT-n/t

[leftchick]

12. photo *Graphic*

poor baby :cry:



ATTENTION EDITORS - VISUALS COVERAGE OF SCENES OF DEATH OR INJURY A nurse treats a Lebanese girl who was injured by the Israeli attacks in Chebaa, south Lebanon, July 15, 2006. Israeli aircraft pounded areas in south, east and northern Lebanon on Saturday, a day after Hizbollah's chief declared an open war against Israel following the bombardment of his stronghold in Beirut. REUTERS/Chawki Hajj (LEBANON)

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[saigon68]

66. Au Revoir voyez-vous

[IndianaGreen]

14. TV Cable News is full of pro-Israel propagandists

all of them are spewing the propaganda line, without any of them mentioning the horrors that Israel has unleashed on innocent Lebanese civilians.

Israel's tactics have nothing to do with the release of the 3 captured IDF soldiers. Obviously Israel's tactics are part of war plans that were drawn years ago to keep Lebanon weak and divided.

[Poll_Blind]

15. Yep. Part of the continued "No partner for peace" strategy. n/t

PB

[IndianaGreen]

16. That's a separate issue.

The attack on Lebanon is no different from Mussolini's Italy invading Ethiopia in terms of the disproportionate military might of the two nations.

[Fozzledick]

64. When did Ethiopia invade Italy?

[puffthemagicdragon]

at this point I am only watching BBC

CNN is marginal and FOX is way out of control, basically calling all people of Lebanon "terrorists" - BBC is the one for me

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Poll_Blind]

22. I saw a little of Twain's twinkle in your eye...

For some reason, that message reminded me a big of Twain's "The War Prayer"...

PB

[allemand]

18. More pictures of the children killed today at this link (warning: graphic)

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2006/07/i-have-just-received-these-pictures.html

:cry:

[mom cat]

38. And more: warning, Graphic and very tragic:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13991.htm

[lumpy]

39. Israel is wrong wrong wrong and evil.

And they claim to only target their enemies. Thos multilated little bodies are not enemies of anyone. I never want to hear about 'poor little Israel' again.

[Fozzledick]

65. Hizballah deliberately put them in harms way for propaganda

Why do you support them?

[lumpy]

35. Reuters site has been taken down, censured

Too graphic for public consumption i guess.

[Poll_Blind]

19. In ONE strike Israel kills 4 times as many as ALL the Quassams...

...launched in the last 5 years.

PB

[MGD]

26. What is it they say about messing with the bull? n/t

[Scurrilous]

31. "Mess with the bull...

...and we'll kill your children?"

[daleo]

32. Bull is the first syllable in the word bully

And the word bullshit. I don't think the little girl in the picture upthread had any role in the border attack.

[IndianaGreen]

34. The bull invariably ends up as steak on the plate

Israel's actions in Lebanon will lead to the creation of a radical Islamic state in that country, just as America's actions in Iraq is leading to a radical Islamic state there.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yukari Yakumo]

61. Perhaps... Perhaps not...

Lebanon is as complex as Iraq. Substitute Christians for Kurds and you have the Lebenon situation. Most likely another civil war will rage for decades again.

The latest reports I've seen suggests Isreal is doing their damnest to cut Lebanon off from... well... everyone, much less Syria. My question is; How much longer before the ground war begins?

[saigon68]

67. A limited Ground Assault will start shortly

[AtomicKitten]

20. Why does the MSM refer to Lebanon as "Hezbollah?"

That is purposely inflammatory. Lebanon is a sovereign nation that held a democratic election. Hezbollah also does humanitarian work for the people.

According to the MSM, when Israel lobs bombs they are defending themselves, everyone else in the Middle East is deemed a terrorist.

Regardless of one's view of the conflict, the way it is framed in the MSM is bullshit.

[IndianaGreen]

27. For the same reason they lumped Iraq with 9-11

They have improved on Nazi propagandist Josef Goebbels. Keep the sheep confused and afraid!

[MGD]

28. Hezbollah is dedicated to the elimination of the jewish state

Israel is defending itself. What's more, Hezbollah has a civillian wing that may indeed attempt to win the hearts and minds of the Lebanese but it also has a military wing that is dedicated to killing Jews with every bit as much fanaticism as the SS of Nazi fame. Israel is, in fact, defending itself against these extremists.

[High Plains]

29. Defending itself againt those extremists...

by dropping bombs on innocent civilians? By destroying the infrastructure of Lebanon?

Israel needs to be smart, not tough. Otherwise it will face the same fate as the Crusaders. Saladin took Jerusalem in 1187...

[daleo]

36. Is that little girl in the picture a terrorist too? n/t

[lumpy]

42. And Israel doesn't have a military wing

that is dedicated to killing anyone, innocents and all, who gets in the way of preserving the 'right to their holy land' bequeathed by 'their god'? And no one claims to call that radical.

[IndianaGreen]

47. and so is Hamas, yet that doesn't excuse Israel attacking Lebanon

and bombing even Christian areas of that country, unless Hizbollah is just a pretext by Israel for a larger strategic goal.

[lumpy]

52. Looks like Israel is dedicated to

the elimination of the Lebanon state because of the actions of a group called Hezbollah. Just like the US was dedicated to destroying the lives of the Afghan people because of the actions of a group known as Al Queda.

[saigon68]

68. Its a Religious War

The US is supporting the Judeo-Christian side against guys who in the words of Representative Cooksey are

"If I see someone comes in that's got a diaper on his head and a fan belt wrapped around the diaper on his head, that guy needs to be pulled over," Cooksey said during an interview with Louisiana Radio Network.

Cooksey's comment came last Monday, the same day that President Bush, a fellow Republican, visited an Islamic mosque and praised mainstream Islam as a religion of peace.

[VegasWolf]

21. Well, Bush has to keep Isreal safe so that the crazy fundie Rupture

can happen. Err, wait, thank's to the Anti-Christ Bush it already is.

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[mikelgb]

37. Blessed are the peacemakers n/t

[Endangered Specie]

40. Now of course if terrorists did that in America, or Europe...

the entire world would be bending over backwards to express their sorrow and vow to punish the perpetrators.

Amazing how diifferent the reactions are as long as you dont kill the 'wrong' people.

[Scurrilous]

45. Israel kills 34 civilians in strikes

<snip>

"Israel killed at least 34 civilians on Saturday, including 15 children, in air strikes meant to punish Lebanon for letting Hizbollah guerrillas menace the Jewish state's northern border.

Israel's bombing of Lebanese roads, bridges, ports and airports, as well as Hizbollah targets, is its most destructive onslaught since a 1982 invasion to expel Palestinian forces."

<snip>

"An Israeli missile incinerated a van in southern Lebanon, killing 20 people, among them 15 children, in the deadliest single attack of the campaign launched by Israel after Hizbollah captured two of its soldiers and killed eight on Wednesday."

<snip>

"Other raids on north, east and south Lebanon killed 14 people and wounded 37, security sources said.

At least 103 people, all but four of them civilians, have been killed in Israel's four-day-old assault, which has choked Lebanon's economy and prompted tourists and foreigners to flee."


more

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

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[maddezmom]

69. locking

updated thread here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2392816