(Cuban leader Ricardo Alarcon): Bush Plan Like Hitler Book

[Mika]

Cuba: Bush Plan Like Hitler Book

Havana, Jul 13 (Prensa Latina) Cuba compared on Thursday the new US anti-Cuban plan, which is devoted to catalyzing a political transition here, with Hitler´s Mein Kampf.

The Bush Plan and Mein Kampf the only examples available of plans to subjugate a nation, announced publicly, Cuban Parliamentary Chair Ricardo Alarcon said in a comment published on Thursday by Granma daily.

That report, elaborated by the so called Commission for Assistance to a Free Cuba, headed by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, was approved by Washington on Monday and gives continuity to the actions planned in the similar text of 2004.

-

Alarcon asserted, in his second analysis of the anti-Cuban document, that it coincides with Hitler´s text, specifically in its genocidal and racist nature.

[LynnTheDem]

1. Same as bush's ME plan. Invasion & occupation of Poland...

Invasion & occupation of Iraq.

Same shit, different asshole.

[Robbien]

2. Cuba is a sovereign nation

Why should we even have a plan written for how the nation should be set up when the current administration leaves office.

Cuba is not ours.

[Zhade]

3. The Cuban people will remind our overlords.

If the USG thinks the Cubans will welcome them with open arms, they're bigger fools than I thought.

[saigon68]

4. The Cuban People aren't fooled by the CHIMP

[megatherium]

5. We have absolutely no business interfering with Cuba's politics.

But they've had single-party rule, indeed, the same leader, for 45 years. Cuba is no model of freedom.

But why we do not have free trade with them is completely beyond me--we trade with much uglier countries, and doubtless free trade with Cuba would allow the Cubans to prosper and liberalize. I think our policy must be due to the peculiarities of Florida politics.

[Mika]

6. Actually..

.. Mr Castro has been Head of State since 1976. Cuban history really is more than knee jerk anti Cuba US propaganda.


http://www.bartleby.com/65/do/Dorticos.html

Dorticós Torrado, Osvaldo

1919–83, president of Cuba (1959–76). A prosperous lawyer, he participated in Fidel Castro’s revolutionary movement and was imprisoned (1958). He escaped and fled to Mexico, returning to Cuba after Castro’s triumph (1959). As minister of laws (1959) he helped to formulate Cuban policies. He was appointed president in 1959. Intelligent and competent, he wielded considerable influence. In 1976 the Cuban government was reorganized, and Castro assumed the title of president; Dorticós was named a member of the council of state.

The Cuban government was reorganized (approved by popular vote) into a variant parliamentary system in 1976.

You can read a short version of the Cuban system here,
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQDemocracy.html

Or a long and detailed version here,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books

[Judi Lynn]

7. The propagandists usually win, when the U.S. bars the door, and keeps

Americans from getting to Cuba to find out the truth for themselves.

I'm reminded of Canadian DU'er Freecancat who had been a regular traveler to Cuba for vacations. She got so overwhelmed by the ignorance American posters showed continually for that country she couldn't hold it in and got herself banned trying to yell some sense into people.

I really miss her firm refusal to allow the lies to get by her.

[megatherium]

8. I'm sorry if I'm only an ignorant American, but Castro has been

leader (if not by title) since January 1, 1959. And they still imprison dissidents:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250022005

Of course the US government has long since dissipated its moral authority regarding Cuba. I don't buy into the "Cuba is such a wonderful place" theory, but I can't see any reason why we cannot have friendly relations with Cuba.

[Mika]

9. A.I. considers people who aid and abet state sponsors of terrorism..

.. "prisoners of conscience", IF they are Cuban.

I guess by that reasoning that we should consider those who, in the US, aid and abet Al Queda "dissidents", or if they are imprisoned after a guilty verdict at trial "prisoners of conscience"? Get real.

The US has attacked Cuba and also harbors and funds terrorist organizations in the US who violate the US's own Neutrality Act with their terrorist incursions into Cuba. In Cuba, aiding and/or abetting the declared enemy state of Cuba (the US, who's stated goal is to overthrow the system of government of Cuba) or anti Cuba terrorist organizations based in Miami is illegal - just as it would be in any civilized nation.



http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR250291997

The renewed crackdown is the most widespread since the round-up of dozens of members of unofficial groups supporting the project known as Concilio Cubano, Cuban Concilium, in February 1996 <2>, and appears to be even more serious in its intent. It has coincided with reports during June and July of bomb explosions at three Havana hotels which caused minor injuries. The Cuban authorities have told the US Government that they have proof that persons based in the USA were behind the explosions

From the Miami Herald archive (thanks to Billy Burnett for story & link),

Bomber tells his story
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/broward_county/11824179.htm

HAVANA -- As he explains precisely how he planted a string of bombs at hotels around the Cuban capital in the summer of 1997, Raul Ernesto Cruz Leon mentions the Hotel Nacional.

The Nacional?

``Nacional, sí, bomba.''

I tell him that's where I'm staying. He laughs and then smiles and shrugs.

Among Cubans, Cruz Leon is known simply as ''The Salvadoran,'' the man who placed six of the dozen or more bombs that rocked Cuban tourist sites that year, including the bomb at the Copacabana that killed Italian tourist Fabio di Celmo.

He was captured not long after the Copa bombing and was sentenced to death in March 1999. His sentence is under appeal -- which means the Cuban government values him more alive than dead, at least for now.

In his first interview with a U.S. newspaper since his conviction six years ago, Cruz Leon talked about his life in Cuba's Guanajay Prison, the death of di Celmo, and his feelings toward Luis Posada Carriles, the man responsible for sending him on what he once believed was a ``heroic mission.''

Our meeting takes place away from the prison, in a house used by Cuban state security in Siboney, a neighborhood on the west side of the city. Dressed in jeans, a polo shirt and sneakers -- as opposed to his normal prison uniform -- and with his hair neatly trimmed, Cruz Leon appeared healthy.

A former member of El Salvador's military, Cruz Leon was 26 when he was recruited in San Salvador for the bombing campaign. He said he was approached by another Salvadoran, Francisco Chavez Abarca, who was familiar with what Cruz Leon described as his ``spirit of adventure.''

''He also knew I had right-wing thoughts,'' Cruz Leon said.

Cruz Leon never met Posada, but as a Herald investigation discovered in 1997, Chavez worked for Posada and was one of the first people recruited by Posada to initiate the bombing campaign.

Cruz Leon said he was to be paid approximately $2,000 for each bomb detonated. He was given a list of hotels, but it was up to Cruz Leon to decide the exact location inside each building. Cruz Leon claimed he balked at first because he didn't want anyone to get hurt. He told me that Abarca responded by saying: ``Well, try to put it in the lobby in a place where you won't kill anybody, but if there are people that die, that's the price. If there are people that die, they die.''

`HEROIC MISSION'

After his first set of bombs went off in July 1997, he felt great. ''I thought that I had accomplished a heroic mission,'' he said. ``I thought it was an action against the evil.''

He returned a few weeks later to plant a second string of bombs. One of them at the Copacabana. He only learned someone died in that blast after being arrested two days later by Cuban police.

---


Nowhere in the link you supplied does it mention the Head of State of Cuba pre 1959, in 1959, 1976, or today. Just more mewling about terrorist supporters AI calls "prisoners of conscience".

[megatherium]

12. You seriously believe that Castro hasn't been in control

since 1959, regardless of his title(s)?

And I've never had a reason to distrust Amnesty International. But they're not the only ones to express concern about Cuba's record on human rights:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/01/18/cuba12207.htm

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030512/cuba

[Mika]

16. Doesn't suprise me that you don't know this.

Seriously, most Americans just regurgitate the anti Cuba propaganda they've been bathing in for 47 years - 'Castro this and Castro' that ad infinitum.

The expressions of concern over the US's human rights record is by far much worse than Cuba's.

Americans should take the time to clean up their own back yard of the litter strewn about and piled high (and lack of democracy) before interfering in other nations business and demanding that they clean up their act.

[megatherium]

18. The Nation magazine, Amnesty International and Human

Rights Watch are just serving up anti-Cuba propaganda? I would doubt any of these organizations are carrying water for the US government or the political right wing.

But you're absolutely right, America has a lot of work to do in its own yard before worrying about anyone else's landscaping.

[Mika]

19. No comments, I see, regarding Cuba's right to defend itself from US terra.

I find it curious after participating in so many Cuba related threads that, when presented with evidence of US based acts of terrorism in/against Cuba, that there is zero response from those who cough up the same old AI and HRW links to Cuba's right (and the Cuban government's duty) to proctect Cubans from terrorism . None.

Cuba hasn't invaded anyone in self defense nor any preemptive strike. Cuba's law enforcement system simply arrests and tries persons who violate the law by aiding and abetting US state sponsored terrorism, Miami based terrorist "exile" organizations, and acts intended to overthrow the system of government.

Doesn't Cuba have a right to defends itself from such acts on its own soil? Its the denial of just this right that bothers me and others about the anti Cuba reports from the aforementioned human rights groups, as if defending citizens (on its own soil) from acts of terrorism and violence isn't a human right.

[megatherium]

20. I suppose there's a difference between being treasonous and being a

dissident. I form the impression from this thread, and from the other thread linked to in an earlier post, that the Cuban government defines as terrorists dissidents who are sympathetic to the US or allied with Cuban exile groups. And perhaps the dissidents are terrorists (certainly, there are unpleasant groups in the Cuban exile community; their crimes are well-known). But not all of them; I read that plenty of nonviolent opponents to the Cuban government are imprisoned. Would a valid analogy be if Bush imprisoned hundreds of antiwar activists in the US under the logic that they are terrorists since they sympathize with our enemies in the War on Terrorism?

I still can't get past the fact that Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and The Nation magazine have described Cuba as an authoritarian regime that imprisons political opponents. I have to assume that these observers are well-informed and well-intentioned, and that therefore their judgments are, more or less, accurate. Since I myself have no direct knowledge or experience of Cuba, I have to trust these groups. So at this point, I should probably drop out of this conversation. If you folks are right that the Cuban government is good and that Cuba is a free country, I'm glad to hear that, and I regret saying otherwise. Yet I am still skeptical. Cheers.

[Mika]

22. Not a valid analogy at all.

Anti war activists in the US are not on the payroll of Al Queda or any nation that harbors terrorists that have attacked the US. Anti war activists in the US do not seek to overthrow the US system of government. Anti war activists in the US are using legal means to do so.

The so called "dissidents" in Cuba that have been jailed or arrested are on the payroll of the foreign state & declared enemy of Cuba (the US gov) whos intention is to overthrow the system of government of Cuba. They are, essentially, pro war against the government of Cuba. They are being paid to aid and abet an overthrow by a foreign state.

Cuba does have legitimate political opponents that go about their activities quite legally. As a matter of fact the leadership of these various factions decry the US funding of other so called "dissident" groups because it is illegal plus it tends to delegitimize their work (especially in the eyes of Americans who seem to have no idea that they exist at all).

[Judi Lynn]

23. It's simply illegal as hell here, were the situation reversed:

In the year 2000, the US Agency for International Development (USAID) donated US$ 670,000 to three Cuban organisations to help in the "the publication abroad of the work of independent journalists from the island... and to distribute their writings within Cuba" (USAID report, Evaluation of the USAID Cuba Program, 2001).

By such means the American imperialists seek to promote the work of counter-revolutionary forces in Cuba and other countries. They constantly interfere in the internal affairs of other states when they do not like the policies they are carrying out. There is no doubt that the American embassy and the CIA were actively involved in the attempts of the counter-revolutionaries to overthrow the government of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.

The US State Department describes this kind of activity officially as "outreach." When it comes to anyone acting in this way to defend the interests of US imperialism against a foreign government then it is regarded as legitimate. However, if any foreign power attempts to apply the same methods against the USA it is a different story. Under the United States Code, similar "outreach" activities on the part of a foreign diplomat in the United States can result in criminal prosecution and a 10-year prison sentence. This applies to anyone "who agrees to operate within the United States subject to the direction or control of a foreign government or official" (Title 18, section 951 of the United States Code).
(snip)

http://www.cjonline.org/woodsSartionCuba.htm

[ronnie624]

10. The dissident meme again?

Already? We just covered this. :eyes:

[Judi Lynn]

15. Either they have a serious short-term memory loss problem

or they're determined the propaganda is going to win, eh?

I would recommend the very thread you mentioned:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2384073#2386105

How many times CAN you repeat yourself?

[Judi Lynn]

17. A little research and simple awareness of US/Cuba events would

keep some of these guys from having to throw themselves at conversations without the tools they need.

[ronnie624]

21. This AI report

that so many love to brandish, as if they were throwing down the gauntlet, is a joke. There is nothing contained within that report that should convince a reasonably skeptical individual of anything. In fact, it seems to avoid any real detail with regard to the "dissidents" and the circumstances which led to their imprisonment. The detractors here at DU seem to sense this as you can rarely get them to copy and paste any excerpts that might illustrate their claims.

Further, AI and HRW are funded by the very same highly political corporatist forces that had held Cuba enthralled until 1959 and that has for many year had such a powerful grasp of our own political system. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, I don't believe, will say anything that could jeopardize that funding. These organizations serve their purpose, and for the most part I'm sure that purpose is a good one, but they are subject to the same political pressures that influence all of us and they will not deviate from that framework which was established long ago with regard to debate over Cuba and which is now accepted as "conventional wisdom" by just about everyone. Anyone who attempts to convince me that these two organizations do not take politics into consideration when they issue their reports is worthy of little more than a sneer in return.

And that silly, substance free link to The Nation. Apparently, we're now supposed to nod our heads solemnly in agreement simply because The Nation is prone to repeating propaganda memes. As if my world view could be based on nothing more than the opinion of a presumably progressive news magazine instead of the reading of 10s of thousands of books and many years of being politically aware. Puh'lease

[Judi Lynn]

Clearly the signers of that statement haven't taken any time to do

any independent research, haven't broken with the pack mentality yet long enough to wean themselves away from the Koolaid.

I know what it's like, having been raised in a Republican home, personally. I didn't actually take any time from my "busy" days to realize anything was amiss about what I had heard about Cuba until I learned Elián Gonzalez's drunken great-uncle in Miami was in the habit of taking vacations in Cuba. That piqued my curiosity, and I simply started reading, and seeking all the information I could get, after reading the posters from both sides on the old CNN US/Cuba Relations message board, which included pro-Cuba and anti-Cuba Cuban "exiles" in the States, American regular travelers to Cuba, lots of people who lived and worked with "exiles" in Florida, and some Cubans still living in Cuba.

People as old as some of the signers to the statement listed above have passed the age of excusable childish dependency on official government statements about political enemies. They should have gone through an awakening already, long ago.

I would look to excuses like heavy drug use, and alcoholism to explain away their lack of intellectual curiosity!

[Judi Lynn]

24. Double post dupe. Yikes.

[Tempest]

11. Cuba isn't perfect, but neither is the U.S.

If I were a woman having a child, I'd rather have it in Cuba than in the America. Cuba has the one of the lowest child mortality rates in the world, the U.S. has the highest rate of all industrial nations.

If I were sick, I'd rather be sick in Cuba. Cuba's health system is structured so that everyone gets the care they need. Cuba's health treatment of HIV positive sufferers puts the U.S. to shame.

The U.S. imprisons dissidents as well. Recently there was an anti-war American film maker who was imprisoned in Iraq by the U.S. And we all know the stories of how anti-war activists are being targeted in the U.S. The U.S. also supports countries who imprison and kill dissidents (Uzbekistan).

But you're right, the U.S. has lost the moral high ground when dealing with rouge nations ever since Bush was elected.

[NorthernSun]

13. Karl Rove's playbook

If you read Hitler's book it is chilling. It reads like Rove's political playbook.

[Zorra]

14. "examples available of plans to subjugate a nation" n/t necessary.