White House Says Tracking Bank Data Deters Terror

[sabra]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/23/washington/23cnd-react.html?hp&ex=1151121600&en=9d9f4dbd36e17ed4&ei=5094&partner=homepage

White House Says Tracking Bank Data Deters Terror

WASHINGTON, June 23 — The White House on Friday vigorously defended a secret program of combing through a vast international data base containing banking transactions involving thousands of Americans. Vice President Dick Cheney and other officials said the program, whose existence was revealed today in an article in The New York Times, was both legal and necessary to deter terrorism.

Treasury Secretary John Snow, in his first public remarks about the program, called it "government at its best." He told reporters that the operation, first disclosed today in The New York Times, was carefully controlled to trace only those transactions with an identifiable link to possible terrorist activity.

"There can't be any doubt about the fact that the program is an effective weapon, an effective weapon in the larger war on terror," he said. "It's for that reason that these disclosures of the particular sources and methods are so regrettable."

Separately, President Bush's spokesman, Tony Snow, said the program complies with "the letter and spirit of the law." He said members of Congressional intelligence committees had been apprised of the program, though he did not provide specifics.

[Rose Siding]

1. That's all they need to say

Now the WP can do its poll showing how most people want to be protected from terrorists and that will be the end of it.

...Until they get busted for mission creep, or for using some of that juicy juicy information against political opponents. That's provided they're really bad at it (a safe assumption -they are bushies, after all) and get caught.

[Julius Civitatus]

2. We should be able to comb through Dick Cheney's bank records

I'm pretty sure we would find some interesting transactions.

These people are scum. They have pushed us way down the rabbit hole.

:mad:








-------------------------------

[Roland99]

28. I'm sure they filter out DICK's, Hastert's, Bush's, et al records

Wouldn't want the real terrorist/drug dealer funders to be found now, would we?

[gratuitous]

3. Then why is it a secret from the people?

Why isn't there a law authorizing more of this snooping?

How does this stack up against the Fourth Amendment?

As I recall, when people have something to hide, it usually means they're doing something wrong. Isn't that what you said, Georgie? Why are you and your corrupt administration so secretive?

[Avalux]

6. It's secret because if they tell us, the terrorists will win.

We'll all be in danger if we are allowed to know what they're doing. :eyes:

[maddezmom]

4. well I call bullshit

"carefully controlled to trace only those transactions with an identifiable link to possible terrorist activity."

My husband had both his UK and US debit accounts shut off the same day. This was after a rather large deposit into each account and while he was using the cards in a Middle Eastern country. The bs exuses we received from the banks were laughable. We both knew what was going on.

[Avalux]

5. They can say whatever the fuck they want.

I guess we'd all better shut up and accept it - the Constitution and are rights have been suspended because we are at war - a war that will never end.

[Skink]

7. This way they can warn the money men if Spitzer's close behind.

[Virginia Dare]

10. Negroponte?

didn't I read recently that he's been given some additional powers over the SEC or some ridiculous bullshit like that? Or did I dream it?

[Brigid]

8. Yeah, right.

They're just pushing the envelope as far as they can. In time -- probably a very short time -- they will be using any information they can get this way against their political opponents. History teaches us that this always happens in developing dictatorships. This is without any exception that I know of.

[flyingfysh]

9. "identifiable link to possible terrorist activity"

This is the weasel word phrase. Who says exactly what it means? Evidence suggests that it covers any political opponent of the war or of Bush. Does it cover DU posters, for example?

[Supersedeas]

11. as long as Specter Hatch and Cheney continue backroom deal--they'll

be no Congressional oversight

[EFerrari]

12. Somebody please tell these bozos their slip is showing.

They're so passed embarrassing already.

[NashVegas]

13. So ... Tell Me Again Why They Can't Track the 9/11 Stock Shorts?

They can disregard the law for whatever they want, against whomever they want?

Ain't it about time we find out who placed those bets?

[tuvor]

14. Please spit in my face and tell me it's raining.

[Canuckistanian]

15. ANOTHER valuable tool for President Hillary Clinton

With all these new presidential powers, she could gather criminal evidence on Shrub and Crashcart about ten times faster! No warrants needed at all!

And no complaints could come from Republicans 'cause it's a time of war!

[Turn CO Blue]

16. In exactly what way is this "an effective weapon"? Show us

EXACT examples of successes, arrests, convictions, plots deterred/destroyed. Show us THE EVIDENCE that this is "an effective tool" in the war on terrorism. You just know that this hasn't lead to even $1 being routed away from Al Queda and that not a single arrest resulted from this. "Government at its best"! He means "spying" is "government at its best". Do these people actually believe the filth they spew????!!!! Good God, this guy is Treasury Secretary and he is not savvy enough to run a charity garage sale!

But I bet BushCo has a better idea now about just who in this country is donating to what Dem candidates and PACs

[HuffleClaw]

17. suuuuure... BUT, ya just KNOW that the very FIRST people they

looked at were bill and hillary. then kerry and the rest of the dems. there is NOTHING they won't use for purely political purposes.

[Pachamama]

18. What can't they do?

Seriously....what limits does this Administration have for how far and how much and what kind of data and information that they can look into and track on you?

Everything they do is always in the name of terrorism....so I guess everything that they want to do is okay, right? :eyes:

When the hell are the American people going to wake up and stop this insanity? :shrug:

[superconnected]

19. I know this story line. Next we find out it is national banks, and then

we find out which banks

Let's face it bush and chaney are fucking nazis and their supporters really are idiots.

[annabanana]

20. "Tracking Bank Data Deters Terror "

How the hell can a secret program "deter" anything?

This is so stupid.

[GuvWurld]

22. Tracking bank data IS terror

It's The Doublespeak, Stupid!
(nothing personal, that's the royal Stupid)

[annabanana]

24. the royal Stupid. . .lol. . . . . n/t

[Rex]

21. Oh please, this is total shit.

So, why then have they waited 5 years to find out who made money off of 911 by placing money into stocks that would rise after 911? This is more power over the people without rational.

[steely]

23. So full of shit.

n/t

[mia]

25. Riggs Bank , Bandar Bush, and the terrorist connection

is the first thing that comes to mind.

How did the White House "following the money" on this one?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A20942-2004Apr17?language=printer

Federal bank regulators are preparing to impose fines on Riggs Bank as soon as this week for not reporting millions of dollars in suspicious transactions at its embassy banking division, and have notified bank officers and directors that they may be sanctioned individually, according to people familiar with the investigation....


Investigators are looking at the Saudi accounts for evidence of money laundering, which is the use of complex transactions to hide the origin or destination of funds related to illegal activities such as drug smuggling or terrorist acts. The investigators have reached no conclusions about the reasons for the transactions in the embassy accounts, including the personal accounts of the Saudi ambassador, Prince Bandar bin Sultan.


__________

Riggs Bank was sold and news of the investigation seemed to disappear.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54380-2004Jul16.html

[Psephos]

26. Apparently no one in this thread understands SWIFT transfers

SWIFT is not used for transactions between individuals. It's for money, stock, and bond transfers between corporations, banks, government agencies, insurance and investment houses, and NGOs.

Pay attention to that: this operation did not involve personal banking. Everyone I'm hearing seems to think Bushco was rifling people's ATM receipts or something. This is flat out wrong.

SWIFT clearance data is retained by statutory regulation for a number of years, in conjunction with other financial data, for tax purposes and government economic and banking management.

The NYT has opened up to the terrorists a detailed map of how their transactions flow through the banking system, and how the system reacted to their money laundering. Tracking this money will now be impossible, because terror financiers will avoid the system and develop alternate means.

We here are pretty vocal (and rightly so) about finding nonmilitary ways of fighting terrorism. This SWIFT monitoring - entirely legal - is exactly the kind of operation we mean...yet when it is revealed, over strenuous objection from those trying to track terrorists, by a media corporation looking to sweeten its own revenue pot, we decry it?

Sorry, I call bullshit to the third degree. This is EXACTLY how we *should* be fighting the psychos with the bomb belts, instead of invading Iraq.

Fuck you, NYT.

Peace.

[mia]

27. transactions between individuals- the Anatomy of a 'terrorist' NGO

ISLAMABAD - The Pakistani-based Al-Rashid Trust is one of the key organizations included in America's black book of terrorist groups. American intelligence - for many a cynic a contradiction in terms - may think that the elusive Osama bin Laden is the main source of hard cash for Al-Rashid. But in fact it is the other way around: Al-Rashid is one of Osama's many sources of income....

http://www.atimes.com/c-asia/CJ26Ag01.html


SWIFT is not used for transactions between individuals. It's for money, stock, and bond transfers between corporations, banks, government agencies, insurance and investment houses, and NGOs.

Can NGOs represent transactions between individuals?

[rayofreason]

29. Finally...

A voice of sanity in this thread.

And in response to post #16 who wrote "Show us EXACT examples of successes, arrests, convictions, plots deterred/destroyed"

From the 6/22 NYT article-

"Among the successes was the capture of a Qaeda operative, Riduan Isamuddin, better known as Hambali, believed to be the mastermind of the 2002 bombing of a Bali resort, several officials said. The Swift data identified a previously unknown figure in Southeast Asia who had financial dealings with a person suspected of being a member of Al Qaeda; that link helped locate Hambali in Thailand in 2003, they said."


Great. Now they know how we got him, so they will look for other ways to move money. Like those Hamas guys with suitcases full of cash.

[madrchsod]

30. the bad guys are not dumb

they haven`t used any system of transactions that would tip off the swift system. they figured that out during the bridgeport illinios muslim charity case.

new york times does not have much to stand on with this in their past..they backed the bitch to the bitter end didn`t they...

"There is some question as to Judith Miller's involvement in "alerting" the GRF of action to freeze their assets. We do know that Judith Miller had connections to the Pentagon & other top Bush officials and that she did play a role in the disinformation about Saddam's WMD. Last year, Chicago U.S. Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald "informed the Times by letter...that his office has subpoenaed telephone company records" of reporters Philip Shenon and Judith Miller. "The move is part of an effort to determine whether anyone in the government told Times reporters of planned federal asset seizures in December 2001" at the GRF's office. "The FBI believes that a call from a reporter to a representative of the charity, the Illinois-based Global Relief Foundation, may have led to the destruction of documents there the night before the government's raid,