Americans shun metropolises to go to the 'exurbs'

[T_i_B]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1802888,00.html

With names such as Port St Lucie and Rancho Cucamonga, America's "exurbs" (extra-urban areas) are the fastest growing cities in the US, while the metropolises are experiencing stagnation in their population.

US census bureau figures released yesterday show that Elk Grove, an extensive area of strip malls, manicured streets and traffic jams near the Californian capital Sacramento, is the country's fastest growing city, moving ahead of North Las Vegas to claim the title. It is one of three Californian cities in the top 10 fastest growing list. Three cities from Florida also make the top 10, as do two from Arizona. The annual population estimates show that Phoenix had the largest influx in the country, with 44,000 new residents, while New York City remains the largest city, with 8.1 million.

Elk Grove's growth has been startling. In 1977 it got its first traffic light. By 1991 it had a population of 50,000, most of them working in agriculture. Today, its population numbers 112,000, according to the bureau. The city has grown by 38.5% since 2000, and 12% in the year from 2004-05.

The growth has come at a price. While many are grateful for the amenities that come with city status, others resent the loss of a bucolic way of life where, according to one resident, "everyone you saw when you walked down the street, you knew". Today, 80 languages are spoken in Elk Grove, which suffers from overcrowded schools and heavy traffic. Three thousand children arrived for the first day of summer camp at one local high school this week. The city builds an average of four new schools each year.

[marmar]

1. From the story, Elk Grove sounds much more like a suburb than an exurb...

Semantics. Semantics.

[AndyTiedye]

2. 112,000 Sounds More Like a City to Me

though lacking nearly all of the benefits of a real city.

[shanti]

40. it IS a city

it was incorporated several years ago. many of my co-workers live in elk grove. they are always griping about the overcrowding and increasing crime rate. some leave because it's not so lily white anymore and move to roseville and folsom.

[T_i_B]

3. And here was I thinking it was a large industrial estate in Illinois!

Ah well, shows how much I know doesn't it. Are there any DUer's out there who live in or near the Elk Grove in CA who can tell us what it's like?

[marmar]

4. LOL....

Isn't that next to O'Hare Airport.

[NYC]

7. Is this it? I also thought Elk Grove was in Illinois.

[AlCzervik]

16. i live in Elk Grove California, the 2 are confused often.

[NYC]

17. I guess some of us have heard of only one.

Those of us who have been to Chicago are likely to think of Elk Grove, Illinois.

Unless Elk Grove, Illinois, is famous for something. I don't know.

I hope you like living in Elk Grove, California. At least you're the center of attention at the moment. :)

[AlCzervik]

20. i don't like it or not like it to be truthful, it's a stop over for now

and when we moved here 6 years ago it was still affordable and the population was only about 60,000 at the time. My husbands job used to be right up the road about 4 miles but since than he's been transferred to Silicon Valley and he commutes back up here on the weekends. this may sound weird but i judge place like this--"Do i want to die here?" and the answer to that is a resounding---NO!!! Our plan for the future---Daughter goes to college, we sell the house and then rent an apt in Pacifica or maybe Bodega bay, if we like it we'll maybe buy a condo or maybe not, we like to be much, much closer to the coast.

[AngryAmish]

28. the elk?

Actually it is the HQ of United Airlines.

[Xithras]

8. Like most of California suburbia.

Bad schools, no sense of community, sprawling neighborhoods full of cookie cutter stucco houses with narrow streets and a cul-de-sac around every corner. No nightlife. No entertainment. It's built on drained marshlands so there's mosquitoes from hell, and it will still be about 103 degrees there today.

So why is it building so fast? Because compared to the rest of the state, Elk Grove is cheap. It's also close enough to two larger urban areas to keep that "middle of nowhere" feeling at bay, and when the weather gets hot the Sierra's are only an hour away.

[AlCzervik]

22. that sounds about right, charmless tract homes--i know, i live in one

0 culture and 0 nightlife, overcrowded schools and the developers own and run this town.

[LeftyMom]

11. Sprawl, strip malls, big box stores, houses that all look alike

It's just the typical suburb but enormous. It's basicly a huge swath covering all of Sacramento's southern flank. At this point there's very little open space between South Sacramento and Elk Grove, just little parcels awaiting infill development mostly between Calvine and Laguna/Bond roads.

Elk Grove has all the typical problems of suburbia, but as it's built around the core of an existing small agricultural town rather than being designed with greater traffic in mind, so the roads can be especially hellish. It rather lacks for non-chain stores and restraunts. Because of the size one can go to the movies or grab dinner without having to head back into Sacramento though. One of the main draws to live out there is that the schools are good*. It's not as stark white as the typical suburb, like most of the Sacramento area it does have a very large Southeast Asian population and smaller African American and Hispanic (mostly Mexican-American) population.

*At least compared to other Sacramento area schools. To be honest, I did all my K-12 schooling in EGUSD schools and wasn't wildly impressed.

[LostinVA]

15. I live in a real exurb -- we have none of that

Only a commute!

[AndyTiedye]

42. I Live in the Redwoods and TELEcommute

:-)

[LostinVA]

47. I wish I could do that!

[AndyTiedye]

51. I Can Still Bike to the Commuter Rail or the Bus (Both Carry Bikes)

[katty]

19. can't bear inland CA, live on coast & probably w/break w/earthquake

but travelling upstate on a more inland route recently I can't believe the growth-these towns used to be real nowherevilles for decades, now housing developments all over the place.

[shanti]

41. see my post above

don't live there, but near there and know lots and lots of people who do.

[Xithras]

5. The difference between a suburb and and exurb...

An exurb is a suburb with jobs. In a suburb, the population either commutes to a larger nearby city, or supports that commuting population. In an exurb, a substantial portion of the population works within the city, but it is still dependent on a larger nearby city for other amenities. Exurbs also tend to be physically disconnected from their parent urban areas.

In the case of Elk Grove, many large companies (including Apple) have facilities there, and there is a large gap between the city and Sacramento (at the moment...with current growth that gap may still evaporate). If you're in Elk Grove and you want to go to a good restaraunt or multiplex, you still have to drive to Sacramento. If you want theatre or other higher class entertainment, you're going even further to the Bay Area. It's a suburb with jobs, and that's about it.

[AndyTiedye]

46. I Thought an Exurb Was Just Like A Suburb, But Further Away From Everythin

[NYC]

6. 80 different languages with 112,000 residents?

I think the overlooked problem is that people living in these places need to drive cars, don't they? The price of gasoline is skyrocketing. What are the odds it will remain affordable?

I have a bad feeling about more people moving to where cars are required. It doesn't sound like a good idea.

Also, Arizona, New Mexico -- low water states, aren't they? Shouldn't this increase in population backfire?

[closeupready]

9. But they are such beautiful states and the climate is lovely.

A little hot, perhaps, but there's this thing called A/C... :)

[NYC]

12. If the water ever gets privatized, those people will

truly suffer. Moving to the land of scarce resources is not wise.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x57811

[AndyTiedye]

45. We'll Never Thirst on the Foggy Coast

If the tap runs dry we'll put out buckets to collect the foggy drizzle.

[NYC]

48. Useful.

:)

Hang towels on the clothesline, then wring them out.

[shanti]

44. re transportation....

elk grove is on the spur of our light rail system here. lots of commuters.

[AnOhioan]

10. The same story mentioned

that two cities in Arizona are also amongst the fastest growing. I can't wait until all these new residents of a state that, for the most part, is dry and arid find out that the cost of pumping in H2O is going to skyrocket in the future. Sorry folks but I have no sympathy for the people who choose to live in area that will not support the sheer numbers of people who defy nature to try and live there.

At some point in the not too distant future, people will be moving back to established cities that have dependable water supplies.

Let them live in desert if they want but they had better realize it is a losing proposition in the long term.


Edited for spelling

[NYC]

13. I agree re water supplies.

People who were born there, okay. People who move there now ought to think about what will happen with water.

They also ought to think about the cost of electricity because the cost of running the air conditioning might become too expensive.

If the house is cheap, and the water is expensive, how cheap is it to live there?

[conflictgirl]

36. But people need to go where jobs are

I live in Michigan, and there are thousands of people leaving this state each year because the job market sucks. People are moving to bigger cities, particularly in the South and Southwest, because that's where more of the jobs are. It just so happens that lots of those places are either where there are tons of hurricanes (southeastern states) or where it requires you to be dependent on air conditioning and water in a place where there isn't a lot of natural water. I lived in Dallas/Fort Worth for 8 years and I often thought about what would happen if energy or water got really expensive due to scarcity, and we would've been screwed. But the alternative was going back to Michigan, where the unemployment rate was high and the jobs that were left weren't very well-paying. When I would talk about the job situation here, before we moved to Texas, often people living in other states would just say "well then move to where the jobs are." I still see people saying similar things on DU now, that if you stay in a place with a bad economy rather than move, it's your fault if you're struggling. But in those cities where the jobs are, there are lots of other people moving there too. That increases the sprawl, because homes and businesses spring up to accomodate the rapid influx of new people. That in turn increases the housing costs closer to the city itself, so people who can't afford the closer houses have to move further and further out.

So it's a hell of a choice - live someplace without jobs? Or move to a place with jobs and have a horrible commute and be overly dependent on water and energy? I don't know if there even is a solution to this.

[NYC]

43. The solution would be jobs.

But that would require a government that didn't think it was a good idea to ship all our jobs to minimum wage (or less) countries.

I understand what you are saying. If the choice is between starving to death in Michigan without a job or going to an arid state, and not starving to death until the price of water goes up, you move to the arid state.

Some people don't give the choices they have a lot of thought. There are people who move to arid states without realizing what they are doing. There are people who chose to live farther from the job because the house was cheaper.

People who make those decisions need to factor in the future cost of gasoline, the future cost of water, etc., and not be misled by the current cost of the house.

I am not saying that anyone deserves to struggle because they live in an area where necessities will skyrocket. I just want people to factor in the possibilities before they make long term decisions, so they are not impoverished as time goes on and prices go up.

When you look for a house, the realtor doesn't tell you it's an earthquake area, or a drought area, and a lot of people just won't think of that. Not their fault. Neighborhoods don't come with warning labels, and they probably should.

I don't want anyone to suffer because of dwindling or scarce resources. We all know the rich people won't.

[AndyTiedye]

50. And There Are People I Know Who Got Evicted From Their City Apartments…

…so they could be sold for megabucks as condos. :grr:
Some of them are in the suburbs or exurbs now, but not by choice.

[bleedingheart]

14. it is going to cost a fortune to live in those areas in the future

and I see a decline in population happening....

[closeupready]

18. 22 years ago, I met a guy from Santa Barbara who said the same thing

about Southern California, that it was all built in a desert and that it was going to die of thirst "very soon", and that the city would be in trouble. 10 million residents later, why is that not happening?

I don't blame anyone for sounding alarms, but there is almost always a solution to these problems.

[The2ndWheel]

23. Cheap energy

As long as we have that, everything is fine.

[bleedingheart]

24. yeah but where are you getting your water?

as I recall there was a furor in the Great Lakes region because there were plans to pipe water from Lake Michigan and Superior to the west....how is that fair to the people in those regions and how will it affect ecosystems...etc

[AnOhioan]

27. The solutions have been....

to pump the aquifers even more...that may have worked then but those aquifers are now facing shortages....shortages that cannot be made up given current usage. The writing is on the wall.

What are they gonna do next? Pump the water from the Great Lakes?...ain't gonna happen. Build desalinization plants? Sure..if you have the money. Tow icebergs from the polar regions? Unlikely to be effective.

The problems will only get worse.

[Jara sang]

39. Exactly, the water is all being sucked up at an alarming rate.

Global warming means below average snow falls in the Rockies translates into Lake Powell water levels dropping big time.

[pitohui]

30. it costs a fortune to live there NOW

as closeupready said, it has not caused the population to decline, the population has boomed, priced any california real estate lately?

i honestly don't know how people make it, i guess they just put everything on credit and make the minimum payments for 40 years and then sell the house for a huge profit, pay all the bills, and take the remaining $$$ and retire someplace cheaper

this works because the demand is so huge that the prices just keep growing so high

everyone needs a place to live, population in usa won't decline, we refuse to control our borders, we refuse to provide good information about birth control, so naturally our population continues to soar compared to other "western" places

we have lost our beautiful frontier character forever, the suburb is the real america, not that there's anything wrong w. that, we just need to make peace w. it and support new technology that will keep supplies of clean water flowing

i am not knowledgeable enough to assist w. any advanced technology but i always like to throw in a quick blurb for two low tech ways to get clear water -- the solar cooker and the plastic tarp

might not get you enough to bathe with but it could get you through a few day's emergency OK

[pitohui]

29. you know what, this argument is getting awfully tired

it's the desert variant on the freeper lament that we should abandon americans who live on coastal flood plains (70% of the united states)

we need to stop attacking people having the gall to be born and to need to live somewhere, because there are serious serious serious issues facing EVERY location on planet earth at this time of century, EVERY place has either too little water or too much, it's a story as an old as noah

we need to be looking for real solutions, not stupid suggestions like "oh why didn't they move somewhere else," well, look what happened when new orleans moved somewhere else, houston is actually not all that durn happy about it

my parish in southeast louisiana has one of the best and likeliest longest to survive aquifers remaining in the united states, do you suggest the desert dwellers all move here, because i guarantee if they did, i would then be hearing even more of the known-nothings whining that we are allowed to purchase federal flood insurance and get federal help in hurricane disasters

the homeowner just can't win! there is always someone to crap on us for having the nerve to try to create a nice home somewhere

[AnOhioan]

32. Sorry if you are "tired" of the facts.

The southwest USA cannot sustain for long the population growth it is experiencing. To pretend otherwise is to stick your head in the sand. If you want to compare me to a freeper be my guest.

That is your right...just as it is my right to state facts.

[pitohui]

53. they are not facts, they are opinions more commonly held by extremists

there is actually a difference between fact and opinion, you know

it is certainly your right to state your opinion and it is my right to point out that i believe your opinion is silly

NO ONE is more supportive of population control, including free access to birth control and abortion, coupled with strong border and immigration controls, than i am -- but to say that the people of the southwest should be blamed for living there is ludicrous

by all means, remove those who are there illegally but to blame the legal residents is not fair

[AnOhioan]

61. Ummmmm, OK

Let me answer...I don't know where you came up with population control. That idea is not part of this discussion.

My point is that the natural qualities of the SW US make it difficult to support a large population.
I stated that the cost to those people who choose to live there is going to be prohibitive in the near future.

Thay have every right to live where they want. I have every right to state the inherent foolishness of thier decision. The facts back me up in this. As another poster said...ther Ogalala aquifer is quickly approaching the point where natural rainfall will not restock it for years.

Add in global warming and the increasing aridity of the region and you have a recipe that will end with a population decline in the region as people move back to established cities with more stable water sources.

My entire point is that these people are just hurting themselves...if they choose to live in the sunny and dry American SW, more power to them. All I am saying is I do not want some grandiose projects pumping water to them from outside the region.

I can, and do, blame them for making an idiotic choice.


Just found this piece written by a gentleman who can put it in better terms than I can.

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=20757

His final sentence sums it up perfectly;

"We will be left with yet another illustration of an all- too-common American mindset: short on vision, mired in denial and unable to comprehend nature's limits."


Edited to add link

[MadHound]

34. The trouble is that your parish in SE LA

Isn't sucking the rest of the US dry trying to turn a desert into a garden for the past fifty plus years. We are facing serious water shortages because we have pumped a lot of water into the SW US all in order that middle class suburbanites can have golf courses and green yards. Our largest aquifer, the Ogalala, has been depleted by 2/3 of its quantity over the past few decades, all due to abnormally high usage rates caused by the population explosion in the SW deserts.

This is really starting to hurt those of us in the Midwest, you know, the bread basket, where your food is grown. Springs that ran since before Columbus are dry. Areas that were once lush are now barren, all due to lack of water from this aquifer.

Your point would be valid, except for one thing, it is adversely effecting every single other citizen in the US. Mankind was not meant to settle large swathes of desert, nor to try and turn it into a garden for his own vanity. Sadly, that is what happened, and we're all going to pay the price for it.

[pitohui]

52. sorry i just don't see your argument

when your aquifer in the midwest is gone we will still have ours, i would never dream of telling you that you could not drink of it

and i can't understand telling people of the west, one of the greatest and most vital parts of our culture, that they should not drink and they should not exist

by the way, i do not eat any food grown in the midwest as this is a low carb household, but i bet you drive a car fueled by gas drilled and refined from the gulf of mexico

[hibbing]

56. uh.........oookay

Uh...you live in a low carb household, so I presume you eat beef. Where do you think that comes from?

Peace

[pitohui]

58. in louisiana it comes from western louisiana and texas

you didn't know we had our own cows seriously?

[hibbing]

57. uh.......okay Part II

Saying "I do not eat any food grown the midwest" I find quite funny. Just how do you know that? How can you be so definitive about that? Nice pipe dream, but whatever. Good luck with that low carb diet btw.

Peace

[pitohui]

59. what do you grow? be serious

i've driven thousands of miles, oh god, thousands of miles, and the midwest is agricultural desert -- corn, soy, corn, soy, that doesn't support life

i can't eat soy, it's an allergan

can't eat corn, it's high carb, well, i might cheat and eat it twice a year but be serious


i don't want to be mean but when the oglala reservoir is gone the midwest will just turn off the lights and move somewhere else like they're already doing to begin with, the kids ain't moving out of nebraska because of all the opportunity there

however, california is not going to move somewhere else, the southwest won't, what is the point of crapping on those people for living in a nice place? it just seems rather sour-grapish to me

[MadHound]

62. And how do you think that the chicken, beef and pork that you eat

Are fed? Oh yeah, that would be corn and other grains from the midwest:banghead:

And another question for you, how long do you think that the water in your relatively small aquifer would last if all the sudden it had to supply everybody west of the Mississippi? Yeah, pretty much blink of the eye friend, especially if you continue to generously let those in the desert to grow bluegrass on their front yard.

And that you find the Midwest an agricultural desert only goes to show how much you've stuck to the highways, and probably also how little you know what you're looking at. Within shouting distance of my small operation I know of many diverse crops being grown, fruit orchards, sunflowers, truck garden fare, and one fellow who even grows sod.

I'm not saying that people in the west shouldn't exist, I'm saying that they shouldn't live in such a non-sustainable way. If they wish to move to the desert and live in a way that is sustainable, great. But yes, I firmly believe that they should stop having green yards, golf courses, gardens, fountains, etc. etc. This is a goddamn desert! Trying to turn it into anything else is nothing but a waste of water and energy. And sadly, the water they're wasting is mine. Why should I have to sacrifice my water, my liveliehood, my SUSTAINABLE style of life here in the Midwest simply so millions of people can live in a desert where the carrying capacity for humans is only in the thousands? Where is the justice in that?

But sadly, it looks like your foolish way of thinking will prevail, and the nation's largest aquifer will be sucked dry. Then, with the West and Midwest a desert, we'll get to find out how long the rest of the nation's water supply will last. Hope you have a cistern, you'll need one.

[bling bling]

55. Green lawns in the desert.

You're right about that. I lived in the desert southwest for a couple of years. People move to the desert from the midwest or wherever to get away from the cold but they want the best of both worlds, hot temps AND their green lawns like they had back home. The problem with that is that all the grass and bushes are making the air more humid, like a sauna. Phoenix used to be a place that people with allergies could go to for relief. It sure doesn't seem to be that way anymore.

[pitohui]

60. xeri scape is the new buzzword

prob. don't have it spelled right but check it out

lot of friends in vegas and the thing to do is the natural desert plantings so you never have to stress about mowing a lawn or watering a lawn

all the cool kids are doing it, eventually the rest of the suburb will catch up to the trend, people ain't stupid and this is too easy

[sweetheart]

21. New york's real population

The greater metropolis, vs the political city, has 18,7 million:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area

[Skip Intro]

25. this isn't anything new, is it?

people back away from inner city, further and further, like irresponsible ripples from a stone into a lake.

Or maybe its just a nation with more and more people?

I would have bet it would have been metropoli...

[AndyTiedye]

54. A Lot of People Are Moving Into the City and Paying Big Bucks to Do So

Many of them are doing so for all the right reasons.

A lot of people without big bucks are being forced out.
I think it's a bit harsh to call them irresponsible.
People are getting evicted from apartments they have lived
in for decades so they can be sold off as million-dollar condos.

Moving closer in is not the solution for everyone.

I telecommute most of the time, and go into the office about
once a week. I go mountain-biking about 3-4x a week.
I live a few minutes ride from the trails.

[Blue_Tires]

26. lol....this is news?

welcome to the Atlanta of 15 years ago

[Dulcinea]

33. So true!

And now everyone in the Atlanta metro area who moved to Gwinnett in the '90s wants to move back inside the Perimeter...& they can't afford it! Thank God we never did that. I love our area (Decatur.)

[Blue_Tires]

49. i lived in West End during my time there

Morehouse College:)

[trogdor]

35. You mean the Atlanta where everybody was nice?

I visited that Atlanta once. I was amazed that a city the size of Chicago had so many nice people living there. It had a real homey small-town feel to it. If that was Southern living, I was all for it. Now I understand that Atlanta is gone.

[mitchum]

38. But Chicago is still a city the size of Chicago that has so many...

nice people living there :) I find Chicago and its inhabitants to be wonderful. On the other hand, I only live 60 miles from Atlanta and I dread those times when I have to visit "The City Too Busy To Think" (although there are still some great people there)

[Samurai_Writer]

31. I worked in Port St. Lucie, FL for 3 1/2 years

I lived in the next town north, Fort Pierce, which actually has 100 year old historical buildings and some charm to it. However, Port St. Lucie was created in the 70s, I believe, and doesn't even have a town center. It's all suburban sprawl. I hated it. Everyone who lived in Port St. Lucie when I was there, was 99% white, christian, republican, homophobic, racist, sexist bigots. Fort Pierce was considered the 'black' town, because it had like 15% minority population.

I have never been so glad to leave an area as I was when I left St. Lucie county, FL.

[Jara sang]

37. Subdivisions

Sprawling on the fringes of the city
In geometric order
An insulated border
In between the bright lights
And the far unlit unknown

Growing up it all seems so one-sided
Opinions all provided
The future pre-decided
Detached and subdivided
In the mass production zone
Nowhere is the dreamer or the misfit so alone


(Subdivisions)
In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out
(Subdivisions)
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out
Any escape might help to smooth the unattractive truth
But the suburbs have no charms to soothe the restless dreams of youth

Drawn like moths we drift into the city
The timeless old attraction
Cruising for the action
Lit up like a firefly
Just to feel the living night

Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights...