'Hadji Girl' Marine Apologizes To Muslims

[Judi Lynn]

'Hadji Girl' Marine Apologizes To Muslims

NC Marine: 'I apologize for any feelings that may have been hurt in the Muslim community'

by OfficialWire NewsDesk

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- (OfficialWire) -- 06/14/06 -- The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today welcomed an apology by a U.S. Marine who posted a song on the Internet that the group, and Pentagon officials, termed "insensitive" and "inappropriate."

Cpl. Joshua Belile, who lives in North Carolina and recently returned from duty in Iraq, says the "Hadji Girl" video describing an encounter with an Iraqi woman posted on youtube.com in March was just a "joke."

The song's lyrics included: "I grabbed her little sister and put her in front of me. As the bullets began to fly, the blood sprayed from between her eyes, and then I laughed maniacally. . .I blew those little f**kers to eternity. . .They should have known they were f**king with the Marines."

Belile said that he apologizes to anyone who may have been offended by the lyrics. He told the Jacksonville Daily News: "I apologize for any feelings that may have been hurt in the Muslim community. This song was written in good humor and not aimed at any party, foreign or domestic. . .I will never perform this song again, and I will remove all video and text in relation to this that I have control of."

"We welcome Corporal Belile's apology and will leave it to military authorities to determine whether any disciplinary action is warranted," said CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad. "Our intent was never to target an individual Marine, but instead to address the larger issue of insensitivity to the suffering of Iraqi civilians."
(snip/...)

http://www.officialwire.com/main.php?action=recent&rid=20952

[nini]

1. He should apologize to all women too

what a pig

[psychopomp]

60. For what?

[zreosumgame]

2. So when will he record a 'McVeigh-babe' song?

nah, never happen

[noonwitch]

3. "Written in good humor"?

That's really fucking hilarious, you know?

Considering what the Marines have been recently accused of-I'll bet his CO wants to kick his ass for contributing to the Corps' bad rep at the worst possible time.

[warrens]

6. Like Pigboy and Mann Coulter

When they get caught being pigs, suddenly it was all a big joke.

[lumpy]

9. ".....good humor..."

Good ol' boy humor. He should be drummed out of the Core; a disgrace to American youth.

[leftchick]

4. he sounds like my Marine nephew

sick in the head.

[Blue_Tires]

5. hearts and minds n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. That is an animal not a human being. They seem to attract them.

[stanwyck]

16. Just so you know

the majority of the Marines condemn those among them who act like animals - whether in Haditha or in this heinous instance. I know. My son is Marine with two tours in Iraq - and one more to go. He' a liberal (yes, they're in the Marines, too) who voted for Kerry.

[slackmaster]

22. Just a reminder - We are discussing a fictional event depicted in a song

Not something that actually happened.

[saskatoon]

23. Just a reminder - We are discussing a fictional event depicted in a song

Really? I thought we were discussing an absolutely disgusting song by a man who disgraces the country he represents and I resent the sob for the hurt he has done to the reputation of the decent people in the US forces. He ought to be given an dishonorable discharge for what he did WAS dishonorable.

[slackmaster]

24. I think much too big of a deal is being made of this

But then, I am an ordained minister in a church that includes in its official mottos "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!"

http://www.subgenius.com

[psychopomp]

51. Yeah, I think so, too

I said this downthread but come on, these are our boys, US Marines, who are stuck in a brutal, hopeless situation who put their lives on the line every day. We rely on them to kill when commanded and that is what they do. If they need to blow off steam like this then I have no problem with that.

If you haven't seen the video, you can watch it on youtube. I have seen it and it is no biggie.

Bring the troops home and we won't have these kinds of conversations.

[The_Casual_Observer]

45. So he isn't a "Devil Dog"?

[stanwyck]

93. I guess in that respect

you're correct. Just remember, there are Ann Coulter Marines and there are John Murtha Marines.
And the Ann Coulter Marines - due to Haditha and Hadji Girl - have the spotlight.
The Murtha Marines loathe this as much as we do.

[psychopomp]

52. And you are a "casual observer"

What the ****? You don't know many soldiers, do you? Get your rear over there and see how you like it, see how you cope.

I usually don't get on other DU'ers cases but you have gone too far.

[The_Casual_Observer]

56. If they are anything like that ape I don't care to know them.

Defend that sub human piece of shit guy all you want, enjoy it, sing along even.

I couldn't care less about what you think. Cross the line my ass.

[psychopomp]

68. Lovely

Such sentiment. You can throw around all the insults you want, be my guest. People like you are what make DU such a great place! Not.

I am not defending the guy, I think he can do fine defending himself, lol.

[The_Casual_Observer]

70. Better buy some more magnetic ribbons, the troops need your support.

[psychopomp]

72. Better not to argue with fools

They bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

[The_Casual_Observer]

73. I'll take your advice. Signing off.

[psychopomp]

75. Thank goodness

Go back to observing, you have nothing to contribute here.

[Divernan]

8. "the blood sprayed from between her eyes, then I laughed maniacally

And then he apologizes to anyone "who MAY have been offended"? I don't consider that an apology. An apology would be "I realize my military training and experience in Iraq have left me criminally insane and I have committed myself to the VA for intensive therapy?" Of course, the VA is no longer staffed to provide such kind of counseling or therapy to returning soldiers.

And military terms lyrics as "insensitive" and "inappropriate"? I consider the lyrics to reflect the horrifying thoughts of a young American who has been turned into a racist killing machine. Did he just imagine the imagery of blood spraying from between someone's eyes? Or is that his account of how he massacred a civilian?

[slackmaster]

10. To be fair, that quote is taken out of context

I recommend that people watch the video or at least read a transcript of the entire song before passing judgement.

Before people dogpile on me, I'm not defending that Marine for what he did. It was a mistake, but not as serious IMO as one would think based only on a line or two taken out of context.

[Mandate My Ass]

19. The whole thing is despicable

He falls in love at first sight with a "hadji girl" a term he uses throughout the song, even while addressing her. That would be the same as referring to and addressing your African American girlfriend "nigger girl" or your Asian girlfriend as "gook girl."

He goes on to say she lured him to her house where her father and brother were waiting to ambush him. It paints a real nice picture of Iraqi life. Men sending their daughters out to lure unsuspecting Marines into an ambush. Of course all's well that ends well, the whole family is dead afterwards.

It's utterly disgusting and shows a stunning lack of respect for Iraqi culture. The context runs intact throughout the entire disgusting song. We don't understand you, we don't want to, after all you're inferior, so you'll all die.

Freedom is on the march. :sarcasm:

[slackmaster]

21. Give the kid a break, he's only 23 years old

I can think of plenty of dumb things I did at that age. It's par for the course.

[lumpy]

25. "Give the kid a break"

That is what is wrong with people in this country, 'give the kid a break'.. Plenty of 23 year old 'kids' have no concept of decency because they have been given too many 'breaks' for exhibiting crass, crude and conscienceless behavior.

[slackmaster]

27. Young soldiers put into untenable positions

Often do things to blow off steam, that seem indecent to someone who doesn't understand their point of view. It happens all the time; this one just got caught on video and posted on the Internet.

There is a reason we don't let anyone under 25 run for Congress. People that young lack the maturity and perspective needed to properly represent the country.

I think it's a bit of a reach to conclude that this young man has no concept of decency.

[Ferretherder]

33. Uh, about this ...

..."There is a reason we don't let anyone under 25 run for Congress. People that young lack the maturity and perspective needed to properly represent the country."

No, we don't let them run for congress, instead, we put a gun in their hands and put them in a foreign country, in an unfamiliar culture with vastly differing customs, an unintelligible language (to the person in question), and tell them to figure out who is friend and who is enemy.

No problem, makes sense to me. :sarcasm:

[psychopomp]

54. If you do not like war then do your part to end it

but do not complain about soldiers glorifying slaughter, it is what we train them to do.

You seem to be surprised that the USA trains its young to kill in war. It is what every nation has done for thousands of years. I suggest you get used to the idea.

[Ferretherder]

87. Not surprised that the USA trains its young to kill in war,...

...only that the USA trains its young to kill INDISCRIMINATELY in war - or, more accurately, to kill, but not question.

[slackmaster]

90. They're supposed to do what they're told and nothing more

Cpl. Belile screwed up.

[psychopomp]

53. Yes, give him a break

You do not seem to realize, he is not in this country he is a soldier in a war. That may as well be Mars 'cause it sure isn't Kansas.

We expect our Marines to laugh about death, I even commend them for it, it makes them better killers.

If you do not want soldiers singing about slaughter then do your part to help bring them home.

[lumpy]

63. I've witnessed many wars in my lifetime

and known many soldiers who have been in battle and I am not naive; soldiers are taught to kill, but apperently there is a newer ingredient involved in this war, abject hatred for people of different religions, color and customs. When we have leadership who condemn whole civilizations as being evil, ungodly and dangerous I guess this sort of contempt for life is to be expected.
Pretty hard to hear someone say that we expect our marines to laugh about death. and even commend them for it because it makes them better killers. No bravery, no glory in that thought.

[psychopomp]

74. You would rather they empathize?

Talking about bravery and glory...sounds like a romanticized view of war. It's about killing and death, nothing redeeming about it. That is why it is all the more important to make sure that we avoid it at all costs. However, if the time came to fight to defend our country I would hope that our killers are ten times as cold as the other side.

Don't like war? I would hope not.

[slackmaster]

94. So, mocking and making fun of the enemy is a new thing in war?

Painting them as having no respect for human life? Or calling them baby-killers?















Yeah, demonizing the enemy's culture or society or appearance or language is brand new. Never been done before.

:eyes:

[Jersey Ginny]

107. Amen. He's trained to be a killer and he's at war and he's a young adult

Geez. How do you kill someone without dehumanizing them? It is necessary and horribly tragic. The Iraqi people are victims, our wounded and dead soldiers are victims, and those who continue to fight and kill are victims too. This war is creating millions of casualties, living and dead. That young Marine one important and common face of war, and his video shows why war must never be waged casually or preemptively.

[Nihil]

30. Aw ... he's only 23 eh?

> I can think of plenty of dumb things I did at that age. It's par for the course.

There is a certain distinction between "dumb things" in the civilian world
and "dumb things" when armed & trained to kill. This is why the moron's attempt
at humour has fallen somewhat flat in the real world even though it is probably
seen as the funniest thing since Jerry Lewis in the "rarefied" zones of right-wing
military amusement.

[psychopomp]

55. Painfully naive

MORON? He is a Marine, singing to other Marines and you would be damned lucky to have them fighting for your right to say that pathetic garbage should the need arise.

[lumpy]

64. He is not there fighting for our right

to speak freely. He is there fighting for his own life against enemies created by corrupt leadership who resorted to concocting lies about the danger of allowing Iraqis to exist because they were a danger to this country. It's pure bullshit that US forces are in Iraq to preserve our freedoms. Anyone believing this is more than naive, they have bought Bush's lies hook line and sinker.

[psychopomp]

71. Naive and short on grammar skills, too

You might notice the use of the second conditional in my post. No need to lecture me on the bs claims that led to this unneccessary war; I made my opposition plain on DU in the runup to the war but I would not expect you to know that, there are too many people to remember here.

[lumpy]

77. I simply find it hard to believe you.

Off to bed, so give it a rest.

[psychopomp]

81. No need to believe me

Just donate to DU so you can search the archives. It is all there, not that I feel the need to establish my progressive-cred.

[psychopomp]

83. Oh, sorry lumpy

I thought you were the one who posted no. 30, which I had responded to. I did not mean to be rude to you for expressing yourself, as I think we are of one accord regarding the need to fight against *Bush's war. You just misunderstood my post.

[Critters2]

105. Exactly!! n/t

[digno dave]

62. I bet he has a better insight into Iraqi culture than you do

seeing how he's THERE!

[lumpy]

65. I'm sure he has the time to absorb Iraqi

culture. Not. Maybe he's to busy watching his back, kicking in doors, pointing guns, shooting at civilians and composing ribald songs about the glories of war.

[Igel]

96. But what's really, really great ...

is that none of those things riled the Arab/Islamic advocacy group.

You see, they were civilians. Instead, the idea of an American snapping in that situation and and defending himself ... how dare he!

And I'm far from certain that the phrase 'hadji girl', whatever others want it to mean, is as derogatory in that song as you think. Derogation is a form of linguistic control, but so is labelling word derogatory independent of a complete data set.

Reports of glee in the song are far overstated. Perhaps "I'm glad I won" is better, not "I'm glad I killed them." For some, there's no difference, it seems.

[lumpy]

26. The words to that 'song'

are available on the net. It IS serious because it is a reflection of the sick Ugly American mind. This is something that George W. Bush would have gotten a huge hoot about when he was 23 ( and maybe he would in the present) Look what we got as a president, a reflection of the Ugly American. Sick sick sick.

[slackmaster]

28. A gaffe by one young soldier doesn't charactize the American mind

I've read the lyrics and seen the video, unlike at least some of the people expressing knee-jerk reactions on this thread.

If you have seen and/or read the whole thing come to a different set of conclusions than I have, that's perfectly OK with me.

...Ugly American. Sick sick sick.

I'll take an Ugly American over an Ugly Islamist any day.

[Nihil]

29. Obviously

> I'll take an Ugly American over an Ugly Islamist any day.

:eyes:

[lumpy]

32. See what I mean folks?

Why do you characterize Arabs or Persians as being Islamists? Why didn't you state "I'll take an Ugly American over an Ugly Mideasterner? Religious bigotry?

[CHICKEN CAPITOL USA]

41. you nailed it

!!!

[slackmaster]

89. Straw Man

Why do you characterize Arabs or Persians as being Islamists?

I didn't.

Why didn't you state "I'll take an Ugly American over an Ugly Mideasterner? Religious bigotry?

Ugly Americans and Ugly Mideasterners and Americans and Mideasterners and Muslims in general don't kill people who have different religious beliefs or cultures. Ugly Islamists do.

[timtom]

86. There is no doubt that "he would in the present"

He has already demonstrated the same unfeeling, unfunny sense of humor in several instances (i.e. the mocking of the condemned woman in Texas, when he was governor).

Randi has rightly pointed that much of the behavior of "our boys and girls over there" is a directly result of the leadership that is afforded them.

[struggle4progress]

43. Look again: the context is Abu Ghraib, Falllujah, and Haditha.

[gratuitous]

13. I got the same impression

"Saw-ree! Jeez, cantcha take a joke? Okay, if you're all offended, I'm sorry I hurt your widdle feelings." But then again, with the examples of public apologies offered lately by folks who've done far worse than writing an offensive song (like taking massive bribes or sending thousands of people to horrific deaths based on a pack of lies), it's not surprising this kid couldn't do any better.

[Xithras]

15. If you read the lyrics, the father shot the girl, not the marine.

The press is twisting this a bit. In the song, the marine doesn't even start shooting until after the Iraqi's opened fire on him and the "younger sister" is already dead. That being the case, it isn't exactly inappropriate for him to send them "to eternity".

[Nihil]

31. Oh that's ok then ...

... he's a true red-blooded all-American hero who only massacres people
in self-defence ...

:patriot:

[Xithras]

36. It's not a massacre if they shoot first.

I don't care if you're in Iraq or in someone's living room in Illinois, if you shoot at someone, they have every right to kill you in self defense. The story in the song says that the two men blew away a little girl and opened fire on him. It's not a "massacre" to shoot them dead.

[Nihil]

85. The victors write the history books (and the songs)

> if you shoot at someone, they have every right to kill you in
> self defense

... then sing songs about it for the amusement of your audience?
If you do a really good job of it then they'll make a cheesy
"action film" about it too and everyone will know how heroic it was.

I hope people remember that each time another striped box is sent
back across the ocean, it was the Americans who shot first in Iraq.
Hmmm ... can't hear you defending the songs praising IEDs?
Maybe because this sort of thing SHOULDN'T BE ENJOYED OR GLORIFIED?

[psychopomp]

57. That's exactly right

and if you do not like what he and other US soldiers do, work to bring them home.

[daleo]

48. But he used her as a human shield

That's not exactly honorable, is it?

[Igel]

17. In the song, he

shot no civilians. The first half is just a strange love ballad, replete with a South Park reference; the second half continues the same tune and style.

When the (fictional) little girl was killed, the marine's gun wasn't loaded. It was an ambush, he was surprised and effectively weaponless--the first girl may have been shot (I can't tell if the words are that her father and brother "shot her" or "shouted". The girl's brother and father were sporting AK-47s; he grabbed the young girl as a shield. And they shot the girl. It's quite unclear why the character in the story laughed maniacally. The rest was self-defense, killing the "little f**kers" that shot the little girl--and maybe the big girl--and wanted to kill him.

The correct response apparently in a song written for his buddies would have been to have followed the girl home, trustingly, and let himself get gunned down in an ambush, it seems. There's a laugh. He's not responsible for foreign policy and being there, so I guess being lured and ambushed is fair. Or perhaps he should treat every Iraqi as an enemy, instead of--as the song starts out--humanizing them?

The depiction of two Iraqi men using their daughter as a lure, and then killing the young girl when she was grabbed as a human shield in the ambush, causes no response from CAIR. Instead CAIR knowingly and wilfully misrepresented the marine as killing civilians. The song was a strange sort of satire--reminds me of Pearl Jam's "Last Kiss" in a funny way: making a love ballad into a tragedy (in this case, given the stress, a darkly humorous tragedy).

They probably see a fair amount of blood in the course of a tour of duty.

It's very much non-PC satire. But they're very much in a non-PC situation. Being judgmental is difficult in this case.

[UpInArms]

11. That is a non-apology

'I apologize for any feelings that may have been hurt in the Muslim community'

"I apologize for my offensive behavior" - not some crap that says it's only offensive if your feelings were hurt.

:puke:

On behalf of humanity, that is not acceptable.

[TommyO]

34. My thoughts exactly.

Why didn't he apologize for his actions, which he has control over?

I'm sick of non-apologies for serious incidents. Clearly he didn't learn responsibility at home, or in the military.

[MiniMe]

88. My thoughts too

He is only apologizing if they were offended. Kind of a "sorry if you were offended, but thats the way I feel". What have we done to these soldiers by being in this crazy war?

[Recursion]

12. Yeah, we've got our share of psychos

That's why (and I'm not being flippant here) you don't leave Marines hanging around occupying places being hyper-armed police officers. That's not what we're trained -- or even equipped -- to do; it's only in the past couple of years that the hand-to-hand combat doctrine has started to teach non-lethal, non-maiming techniques. That's not our institutional doctrine. That's not the type of person that enlists in the Marines.

I've suspected for a while that Rumsfeld wants to get rid of the Marine Corps. He's doing a damn good job of killing it right now (not to take away this scumbag corporal's responsibility; just a larger gripe).

[Miss Chybil]

14. Wow, that's the funniest thing I've ever heard.

Not. I don't think you can apologize for something like that.

[Igel]

18. The first time I listened to the song I

found it darkly ludicrous. I laughed.

For a love ballad to get so twisted at the end, and have it reflect the kind of reality the soldiers are in ...

Then again, I find humor in all sorts of places, and always have. Try working in a fundie church while finding "Jesus jokes" and "God jokes" funny while everybody else thinks they're blasphemous.

[young_at_heart]

20. Misogynistic lyrics....I wonder if he understands

Hard to find much "good" humor.

[IndianaGreen]

35. 'hadji" is the new version of "gook"

A condescending racist term that is in vogue now, but is as racist as "gook" was when it was first used by US Marines during the Philippines Rebellion.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. The original meaning of the term "hadji" is

"one who has made a pilgrimage to Mecca." It is a term of honor in Muslim communities, and its use as a racial epithet is really strange.

Oh, and I think any decent human being over the age of 12 knows that racism and mysogyny are wrong.

[stanwyck]

42. My son, a Marine, said originally

the enemy in Iraq was referred to as "Mohammed". But that turned out to be a bad idea since there were so many American troops named Mohammed. So, the reference for the enemy was changed to Hadji.

[daleo]

49. Wouldn't that also be insulting to U.S. troops named Mohammed?

I would guess that a lot of those would be Muslims.

[lumpy]

67. People seem to forget that there

are many Muslims who are generational US citizens.

[stanwyck]

92. Exactly. That's what I meant

American troops had the name Mohammed so the name of the enemy was changed to Hadji.

[Critters2]

106. Why don't they refer to them as "people"?

They need a derogatory term? I thought they were there to help them!

With friends like this...

[psychopomp]

58. Yeah, so?

Rule number one for soldiers killing in a war: dehumanize the enemy so you do not hesitate, causing the enemy to shoot first and kill you rather than the other way around.

And gook, by the way, originated in the Korean war. Hangook=Korea

[lumpy]

66. The word gook originally was

used during the Philippine uprisings around the eary 1900s. It was used (sparingly) in Alaska referencing the Eskimo in the 1930s, although the ussage was heavily frowned upon.

[psychopomp]

69. Oh? News to me

Do you have a link for that? Thanks

[lumpy]

76. I suspect there would be many things

that would be news to you. I am not going to look up a link. Feel free to look it up yourself. My father was in the signal core in the Philippines during the uprisings in early 1900s, so I got this first hand. Also I lived in Alaska during the 30s and heard this obnoxious expression (gook) several times.

[psychopomp]

82. You're right, lumpy!

But not about the trivial bit you are making an issue of, rather the fact that there are possibly endless things that would be news to me. I do not know everything, a lesson that I have learned and that I am sure you have, too, in your long life. You seem to have forgotten this momentarily...perhaps your memory of 1930's Alaska is faulty, too?

Anyways, take it easy.

[lumpy]

91. No, darling, my memories of growing

up in Alaska are not forgotten or faulty. Best of memories. We 'old folks' might forget what we had for breakfast yesterday morning but rarely do we forget our childhood. Alzheimer hasn't set in as yet. Hope you are as swift as I am when you hit the 'golden age'.

[psychopomp]

102. Okay, no disrespect

I am sure those pristine Alaskan days/nights were wonderful. Nobody will fault you for having being born in any particular year.

And I second your hopes--halfway there.

[zreosumgame]

97. lumpy seems a bit surly today...

LOL

[Igel]

98. I was surprised, too.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gook

1899, U.S. military slang for "Filipino" during the insurrection there, probably from a native word, or imitative of the babbling sound of their language to American ears (cf. barbarian). The term goo-goo eyes "soft, seductive eyes" was in vogue c.1900 and may have contributed to this somehow. Extended over time to "Nicaraguan," "any Pacific Islander" (World War II), "Korean" (1950s), "Vietnamese" and "any Asian" (1960s).



I'm not sure what it means for how I evaluate the word's connotation now. I guess ... shockingly ... I have to go on context.

[Veronica.Franco]

37. He is only apologizing because he was caught ... and forced to ..

This is sad on so many levels ... When will ALL families, mothers, fathers, sisters, and brothers begin teaching these Neanderthals that this kind of behavior is NEVER acceptable? ... this kind of sad sickness begins at home and is taught to them by their fathers and grandfathers ... KKK "humor" ... he is so ignorant that he believes because he calls it "humor" it is "not aimed at any party, foreign or domestic" ... It is AIMED at showing the world, AGAIN, that we are made up of ignorant ugly Americans ... evolve please! ...

[psychopomp]

59. Easy to say from peacetime USA

You'd harden up quickly if you were putting your life on the line every day.

Painfully naive of you.

[Veronica.Franco]

95. There are "hardened" Vietnam Vets fighting every day to stop this

SAME kind of thing ... they saw the atrocities in VIETNAM and all the children with missing limbs ... they aren't naive and neither am I ... Veterans haunt many of the same political forums that I do and ALL that I have met are disgusted with this type of dehumanizing behavior ... whether Veterans of Vietnam or WWII ... I've never seen ONE support this kind of behavior ...

[number6]

39. what happened to the culture and sensitivity

training ...hmmmm ?

[CHICKEN CAPITOL USA]

40. Welcome to the new breed--haven't we evolved ever SO WELL!!

Somebody hasn't been raising their kids right--
and that's a shame--for the earth and all the living creatures on it.

[noshenanigans]

44. Holy S***, that was REAL?

I was totally sure that wasn't really going to be a Marine but a bad, misdirected satire. Wow. In the last few days- well, since the Gitmo suicides- Ive become less scared of the things people say and way more scared that they actually mean them.

[Igel]

99. It was a marine ...

and it was satire.

He was satirizing love ballads. And showing how completely incongruous the situation is.

Taking the girl as a human shield was funny; why it's funny seems to be beyond most DUers' ability to try to understand. The little girl's death ... didn't trigger much laughter at all.

If this were made by a jihadi group, with the roles reversed, we'd be asking why they made it and seeking to understand the motives lest we mistakenly condemn; then we'd ask what it says about how we're perceived, and what we need to change to alter the perception. It was made by an American, so we know why he made it (he's a knuckle-dragging non-human racist pig ... how dare he judge others or dehumanize them); then we ask what it says about how we're perceived, and what we need to change to alter the perception. With other cultures: first understand, then condemn ... maybe; with disapproved-of Americans, first condemn then ... screw 'em.

In this case, many people feel free judging and spouting without even looking at the lyrics. They had their judgment all worked before they finished the snip from the article, possibly before they finished the subject line.

[JI7]

46. i'm not Muslim and i find it offensive

[daleo]

47. Murdering civilians is a joke?

I understand that there can be some black humor among troops in a combat zone, but posting a song on the internet about killing civilians is going way too far. Especially given the alleged killings of civilians by marines in Haditha.

[Igel]

100. What civilian did the guy in the

song murder?

Ah ... you must be talking about another song. A good progressive wouldn't be so freeperish as to evaluate and judge a song without actually having understood the words to it. My mistake.

[daleo]

101. How about you post the whole lyrics?

I have just read bits of them, here and there, perhaps taken out of context. The song certainly seems to be treating the notion of civilian deaths quite light heartedly, which is incredibly bad public relations at this point in time.

On edit: Here's a snip I found. It says the marine used a little girl as a human shield. In law, using someone as a human shield would be equivalent to murder, I think.

"I grabbed her little sister and put her in front of me. As the bullets began to fly, the blood sprayed from between her eyes, and then I laughed maniacally. . .I blew those little f**kers to eternity . . .They should have known they were f**king with the Marines."

Here's another explanation from a site quite favorable to the marine:
"In the heat of battle a young girl appears out of nowhere and invites this Marine to meet her family. She is leading him into an ambush but he doesn't know it. When the two of them arrive at her home, the girl's father and brother open fire, the Marine hits the ground and the girl is killed by her brother and father's gunfire - "threw open the door and I hit the floor 'cause her brother and father shot her." The girl's father and brother are still intent on killing the Marine so he grabs the girl's sister and the brother and father then proceed to gun her down also in their haste to kill the Marine.

The Marine then "locks and loads" stating he "blew those little fuckers to eternity.""

It still sounds like he used a little girl as a human shield.

[psychopomp]

50. Sorry, but Marines are our trained killers

so nobody should be shocked that he sang a song about slaughtering the enemy and taking their women, etc.--that is number one; secondly, he did apologize. That shows that he has heart, good on him!

Bring our troops home and we won't have these kinds of situations.

[Critters2]

108. A) They aren't MY trained killers--I don't have trained killers.

B)He apologized because he was caught and called on it. Heart, my ass. He's just afraid of a dishonorable discharge or other discipline. A little cowardly for a trained killer.

[digno dave]

61. Hadji Girl as art

Insensitive? Probably. It's also a piece of art, in it's own way, and should be judged as such to a degree. The guy surely had no intention of the thing seeing the light of day. That was someone else's doing, not his. He's a marine, a trained killer who's been in a war zone for god knows how long. He's also a songwriter and musician. Put the two together and we all see the result. Didn't Johnny Cash win Grammies for writing blood soaked odes?
As far as I'm concerned, punish the knuckle-head who posted it on the internet, not the guy harmlessly blowing off steam with his buddies.
All this from someone(me) who long ago recognized the ineptitude of those running this war from afar.

[orleans]

78. the few...the proud....

in good humor? (that's really a creepy statement)

we need to get our troops out of there!

they're going crazy---and killing innocent people!

[saigon68]

79. No simply put they are beasts, thugs and murderers

Like Tim McVeigh and John Allen Mohammad they will be returning soon, to wreak vengeance on their imagined tormentors

[orleans]

80. now there's a comforting thought (not!) n/t

[psychopomp]

84. That is two nutjobs

One of whom was never a Marine. The Marine vets I know are like brothers to me and I do not associate with the types of people you refer to in your post.

[Critters2]

109. The Marine vets I know

love to talk about the fun they've had "killing people and breaking things" (They LOVE that quote).

[Dogmudgeon]

103. Mock in haste, repent in leisure.

But I do think it's a Good Thing. The Corporal acted like an ass, and he was mature enough to apologize for it.

It would be nice to think that the jackasses of the world would line up to follow Cpl. Belile's example, but somehow, I think this won't get very far.

--p!

[Fovea]

104. Great poetry expresses the inner landscape of the poet.

And so does this.

What it so expresses with such precise banality is the de-humanisation of the other
we have slid so easily into since 9-11.

But rather than blame Amerikans, I think the blame is greater for the media and leaders whose responsibility it is to provide truth instead of partisan 'balance' and on the part of the congress, to provide a sanity check on the current executive branch.

To quote a play about another empire, 'bodies rot in field and town because we ourselves are rotten.'
It was true for Henry Plantagenet, it is true for Dubya.

And the truth of such rot is that it is contageous, hence the 'joke.'

[Jack_DeLeon]

110. I though the song was funny...

yeah I'm a bad person. :eyes:

[BurningDog]

111. I was about to post the same thing.

To be fair, I also find racist jokes, sexist jokes, rape jokes, aids jokes, and any other type of joke funny also. He was playing to his audience (who seemed to enjoy it.) If it offends you, don't watch it.

I've seen much worse language and threats used here against 'repukes' and 'fundies', most of which is done in a non-humorous manner. If we're supposed to be the free speech party, we should start acting like it.