U.S. warns Germany on World Cup sex workers

[PatGund]

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/06/05/human.trafficking.ap/index.html

"The German government, while defending its policy of legalized prostitution, emphatically denies that it condones human trafficking and says it has intensified efforts to combat it.

Rep. Christopher Smith, R-New Jersey, chairman of the House subcommittee on global human rights, urged Germany last month to recriminalize prostitution and suggested that it should be reclassified as an "egregious violator" of human trafficking.

Prostitution is legal in Germany, with about 400,000 registered sex workers who pay taxes and receive social benefits. However, the government says forced prostitution is not tolerated and it denies Smith's claim that it is helping build brothels."

Gee, Rep. Smith must really hate his colleagues from Nevada. Wonder if Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, or any other country with legalized prostitution is going to find themselves classed as an "egregious violator" as well? Or is this an attempt to punish Germany for not taking part in Shrub's little sandbox adventure??

[Cooley Hurd]

1. U.S. warns Germany... unless they're MALE sex workers...

...then, they'll hold the next GOP convention there. ;)

[warrens]

10. Hey, Jeff Gannon has to make a living, you know...

Now that his writing gig is kaput. And remember, it ain't gay sex if it's between two Republicans. As Roy Cohn famously said, I'm not gay, I just like to fuck boys.

[KansDem]

44. refresher

Roy Marcus Cohn (February 20, 1927 – August 2, 1986) was an American lawyer who came to prominence during the investigations by Senator Joseph McCarthy into Communism in the government and especially during the Army-McCarthy Hearings. While widely unpopular during his lifetime, he nonetheless wielded tremendous political power at times. Cohn was a member of the Democratic Party but was widely considered a "Democrat In Name Only" (DINO), as he supported most of the Republican presidents of his time and Republicans in major seats across New York.

..........

Rumors of Cohn's homosexuality began to spread throughout Washington shortly after he was appointed chief counsel to the Government Committee on Operations. When he brought on the wealthy and handsome Schine as chief consultant, it made for good gossip fodder. It became widely believed that Schine and Cohn had a sexual relationship, however, that rumor ultimately turned out to be entirely unsubstantiated and improbable, according to several more recent historians.

Cohn's homosexuality was an open secret during most of his career. His public response to all questions on this subject was sometimes evasive and sometimes a flat denial; he encouraged rumors of a relationship with his longtime friend Barbara Walters, who publicly stated that she thought he was heterosexual. Though his closeted sexuality was far from unusual at the time, it was arguably in tension with his public life in right-wing politics. Cohn and McCarthy targeted many government officials and cultural figures not only for suspected Communist sympathies but for homosexual tendencies, sometimes using sexual secrets as a blackmail tool to gain informants. McCarthy may not have known Cohn was gay, but it may have been alluded to during the Army-McCarthy hearings by Army attorney Joseph Welch when Cohn produced a photo as evidence and Welch asked McCarthy if the photo came from "a pixie ... a close relative of a fairy."

In the 1970s, no longer a national figure, Cohn frequented gay bars semi-openly, but still denied that he was gay, and lent his support to anti-gay political campaigns. During debates over New York City's first gay rights law, he said homosexuals should not be allowed to be schoolteachers.

In 1984, he was diagnosed with AIDS, and attempted to keep his condition secret while receiving aggressive drug treatment. He insisted to his dying day that his disease was liver cancer. Cohn never spoke publicly about AIDS but, according to his friends, he claimed to have used his political influence to increase the government's investment in AIDS research.

He died on August 2, 1986, of complications from AIDS at the age of 59. He is buried in Queens, New York.

While most conservative political figures have preferred to distance themselves from the legacy of McCarthyism, some have defended McCarthy and Cohn's anti-Communist crusade, most notably conservative pundit Ann Coulter in her book Treason.


from Wikipedia

[susanna]

74. If Coulter's a defender of your life's work,

I think you might need new friends. But maybe that's just me...

[no_hypocrisy]

2. It's not prostitution itself that bothers republicans. It's government

regulation of it. It goes against free enterprise and capitalism.

Put the girls back in the hands of capital investors (i.e., the pimps). Let the owners finance elected officials with kick-backs. Let the women return to a degraded place in society with the spectre of sexual slavery.

Let's face it. The "real" reason this is an issue at all is the World Cup "sex workers" probably have a two-tier fee, and Americans have to pay the higher level because * invaded Iran and insulted Europe, that is, if they decide to patronize Americans at all.

[Vidar]

5. That's it! Legal prostitutes, like unionized workers, have too much

power and threaten all that the neocons hold dear: exploitation, lack of dissent and wage-slavery.

[geek tragedy]

71. Bullshit.

Women who have educations and options don't become prostitutes. The idea that prostitutes "want" to have sex with ugly, nasty men all day and "enjoy" it is a myth that allows society to forget about these women and for men to assure themselves that buying other human beings is okay as long as it makes their dicks hard.

[susanna]

75. Don't forget ....

legalized female prostitutes are (arguably) in control of their own sexuality. That's a right-wing no-no right there.

on edit: phraseology

[Spike from MN]

3. It's not prostitution they're talking about. It's the sex slave trade

and human trafficking. Rep. Smith has been a staunch opponent of human trafficking for years and he's right when he says that Germany should be reclassified as an "egregious violator." They're one of the worst offenders.

From my post in another thread on this same topic:

"As many as 800,000 people are bought and sold across national borders annually or lured to other countries with false promises of work or other benefits, the State Department said in its annual survey of international human trafficking. Most are women and children."

These women and children are NOT doing this of their own accord. They have either been kidnapped outright or have been lured by false promises of bogus jobs. Once they arrive at their destination, their passports are immediately confiscated and their "employers" either force them into prostitution and/or sell them outright at slave auctions and their new "owner" then forces them into prostitution. Women that don't cooperate are beaten and worse. Some are killed outright as an "example" to the others. They are kept in horribly appalling conditions and if they try to escape, they will of course be killed. If a customer complains about a "less than satisfactory" performance, they will be beated or killed, depending on the whim of the "owner." The "owners" know who these girls are, where they came from, and who their family members are. If a girl does manage to escape, the "owner" often retaliates on her family. That's one of the many threats used to keep "the girls" in line and it works. Organized crime is behind this and they carry through on their threats. The girls also can't turn to cops and/or government officials because they are more often than not "in" on the deal. The cops are some of their most frequent customers and the "owners" make sure they get "freebies" to look the other way. Government officials get $$ so they're more than happy to ignore the problem.

This is NOT legalized prostitution we're talking. This is human trafficking and it's a HUGE black market business, coming in third behind arms sales and drug sales. Germany is one of the worst offenders. Israel is also at the top of the list but you won't see them listed in the State Department report. The whole thing has been politicized and some of the most egregious offenders have been moved to Tier 1 (the "OK" Tier) whereas "enemies of the US", such as Cuba for instance, are somehow relegated to Tier 3 (the worst offenders). I see Iran and Syria appear to be in that Tier in the 2006 report and that the only two countries that have been sanctioned are Equatorial Guinea and Venezuela. That figures. The State Department report is a sham. It's just more politics as usual.

For more information on trafficking of sex slaves, check out Victor Malarek's book "The Natashas: Inside the New Global Sex Trade."

[WinkyDink]

4. I guess Bushco wants a slice of this; hence, the"warning".

[FreakinDJ]

6. funneling money into Righwing Christian organizations.

This is NOT legalized prostitution we're talking. This is human trafficking

The whole “Human Trafficking” issue is just another way of funneling money into Righwing Christian organizations.

That’s just it, Germany does have legalized prostitution. Most of the “Pimps” as you call them are former madams themselves. This is state regulated and they do not have to hide out under the cover of the some sort of underworld as you suggest.

[Spike from MN]

8. Do you have links for that?

The info I posted came largely from the book which I mentioned at the bottom of the post. The author stated that organized crime was behind the trafficking and made no mention of Rightwing Christian organizations that I can recall. If you have a link I'd be interested in seeing it.

I didn't mention "Pimps" in my post anywhere. My post referred to "owners" as that's what they are. The women are either kept against their will by the "importer" or sold at auction. And sure, while there are some that are in the business legally, they are vastly outnumbered by those that have been trafficked. Once again, I refer you to the book I mentioned in my earlier post. The author goes in to far more detail than I can here.

State regulated? Wow, have a look at this:

Germany Forcing Unemployed Women into Legalized Prostitution

BERLIN, January 31, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - News agencies around the world are carrying the story of a young German woman, a qualified information technologist, who has been told that she faces suspension of her government relief benefits if she refuses to take a ‘job’ as a prostitute in a Berlin brothel.

The unemployed woman, who has not been named, had indicated her willingness to take jobs outside her field and has worked in a café. Britain’s Daily Telegraph reported that the woman, who has not been named, received a phone call offering her an interview for a job. She did not realize the ‘job’ was prostitution in a brothel until she telephoned. After the woman refused, she was told by the job centre that her benefits would be cut off if she did not go into prostitution.

Germany’s unemployment rate has reached the highest levels since reunification in 1990 and its welfare laws have recently been reformed. The new welfare regulations and the legalization of prostitution have combined to create a situation where women can be ‘sold’ by the state into sexual slavery.

German law no longer considers prostitution, or as it is called, the ‘sex trade,’ to be immoral or inherently undesirable. Legalised German brothels are starting to avail themselves of national listings of unemployed women to ‘hire’ to perform sexual services. Under German law, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job or lose her unemployment benefit.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jan/05013106.html

Gee, so the state can force women into prostitution or cut off their unemployment benefits. Yeah, nice regulations they have there.

[FreakinDJ]

11. anti-abortionist Christian conservatives and radical feminist

The Network of Sex Work Projects (NSWP) shares the mixed sentiments of the global AIDS community regarding the US bill. The NSWP applauds the US for the scale of the commitment to the prevention and treatment of HIV/AIDS globally. However, the NSWP is concerned that the bill contains much that is counter-productive to effective HIV/AIDS prevention programs world-wide. The bill sets aside one-third of all prevention funding for abstinence programs, and it includes a "conscience clause’ that ensures that religious groups have access to funding even if they oppose condom distribution. In particular, the NSWP strongly condemns those measures in the bill that will limit funding for HIV prevention among sex workers.

The bill introduces a "purity test" that projects must pass in order to qualify for funds. It stipulates that all projects applying for funds must have a "policy explicitly opposing trafficking and prostitution".

Behind this "purity test" is an unlikely alliance of pro-abstinence, anti-abortionist Christian conservatives and radical feminists such as Prof. Donna Hughes of the University of Rhode Island
http://www.nswp.org/nswp/pr/pr-030530.html

Groups that hand out condoms are excluded

Preaching abstinence again ???

[Spike from MN]

18. These religious groups have no business getting taxpayer dollars

to push their religious views on others. If they don't want to to hand out condoms to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS, they have no business being there. Let someone else do it.

I misunderstood your first post. I thought when you said "funneling money," you were implying that Rightwing Christian groups were the ones that were actually profiting from (as in "running") the trafficking operation itself. But I see now that you meant they're profiting because we have a nutball in DC that wants to funnel money to these religious groups in order to keep the Fundies and Rightwing Christian base happy. Yeah, that pisses me off too.

[FreakinDJ]

19. Yes to the tune of 100 Billion over the next 6 years

Very disturbing because if they don’t profess their “New found Religion” they are summarily excluded from any meaningful rehabilitation (like training for a descent job) by these same Religious Fundie groups

[wordpix2]

37. yes, the friggin repukes are preaching abstinence. This does not pertain

to sex slavery, though, at least not directly. These are two different issues, although linked.

[redqueen]

21. I cannot BELIEVE you just posted that BULLSHIT...

and linked from a PRO LIFE site at that!

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

Un-befuckingly-believable.


Care to substantiate the "Germany is one of the worst offenders" with respect to human trafficking?


:banghead:

:nuke:

[Spike from MN]

24. Whoops. My bad.

I'm trying to post and get my work done at the same time. Thanks for pointing that out but no need to jump down my throat about it.

The "Germany is one of the worse offenders" is what I gleaned from the book so I don't have a link but maybe this will do:

VIENNA (Reuters) - Russia is where people forced to become sex workers most commonly come from and Germany the place they most often end up working, the United Nations said Tuesday after studying thousands of cases of human trafficking.

The U.N. Centre for International Crime Prevention is compiling a computer database on victims of human trafficking, defined as people being forcibly taken to a foreign country or lured there with false promises of legitimate employment.

Instead of a legitimate job, trafficking victims are often forced to work in brothels, suffer beatings, have their passports confiscated or are kept as prisoners.

"Russia is the most frequently named country of origin among victims of human trafficking and Germany is the most popular destination," Kristiina Kangaspunta, an official of the center, told a news conference.

http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/7181-17.cfm

[redqueen]

25. Interesting...

sorry for jumping down your throat but seeing the pro-life site it was hosted at, and then finding out it was nothing but lies... that set me right off.

I'd like to find out more about the UN's reason for considering Germany the most popular destination for these workers. I was under the impression that other countries were worse...

[FreakinDJ]

28. Having trouble reading redqueeen - they are PRO CHOICE

http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/topics/international/documents/2004worldview.pdf

I know it might be difficult to understand for a bigoted few there are many Pro-Choice Catholics in the world trying to make a difference

As for Donna Hughes - there is no excuse for her actions. she is completely "in bed" with the PNACers and NeoCons. Organisations that hand out condoms for the prevention of pregnancy and AIDs are exempted from Federal funding now and Donna Hughes is 100% complicit in bring that about.

As for the Human Trafficking funding, 100 billion dollars, it is mainly going to right wing religious groups hell bent on shoving abstenence down the throats of the world.

Hoo- Ra Donna

[redqueen]

31. Where did you get Catholics for Choice?

Here's the link they posted:

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jan/05013106.html

Check out the "About Us" section.

"Campaign Life Coalition, founded in 1978, has been one of the first pro-life organizations to emphasize the international dimension of attacks on life and family. Along with a couple of other groups it pioneered pro-life lobbying at United Nations conferences. CLC president, Jim Hughes, is currently also vice-president of the International Right to Life Federation."


Yeah, I'm the one having trouble reading.

[FreakinDJ]

33. Sorry thought you replied to my post

I was googling around when I came across Catholics for choice some time ago. Not to mention I'm a life long catholic myself. To say there is some desention in the ranks is putting it too mildly.

My point is the 100 billion ear marked for anti-trafficking has primarily been gobbled up by rightwing religious fundies using the funds to preach abstinence over seas.

As for the article from Germany I was wondering what was the final resolution?

[redqueen]

34. No problem...

:hi:

[Spike from MN]

55. No problem.

I am most DEFINITELY NOT in the pro-life camp so I was a bit horrified that I had even put up the link. I should have checked but like I said, I'm trying to do two things at once here.

As far as Germany's popularity as a destination, from the book I read there seemed to be a number of reasons for that. The relative ease with which they could be smuggled across the border into Germany was one reason. There is also a road (Highway E-55) which is a rather notorious destination. And last but not least, government officials and police officers don't seem to be all that inclined to crack down on the trafficking. Here's a few snippets from the book:

Professional traffickers, used to circumventing border crossings, engage border authorities in a never-ending game of cat and mouse. They constantly vary their routes to keep one step ahead of the law, moving the women across borders with relative ease. Along the serpentine border of the European Union, smugglers have established a complex system of well-protected corridors by exploiting “green borders” or unguarded frontiers. One of the more significant overland corridors is known as “the Eastern Route” and winds through Poland and into Germany. Once the traffickers and their victims are inside the European Union, all member nations are fair game and movement for organized crime becomes relatively unfettered. The women smuggled through this route come from Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, and are found in disturbing numbers in Italy, Greece, Germany, Belgium, Austria and France.

...

Renowned worldwide, Highway E-55 lies alongside the main thoroughfare between Dresden and Prague just a few kilometers from the Czech–German border. To motorists, this miserable five-kilometer stretch of asphalt boasts one of the highest concentrations of prostitutes in Europe. For those driven by lust, it has been dubbed the “highway of love,” its main customers German and Austrian men driving in for the great “deals.” They come for the cut-rate prices—half of what they pay in their homelands. A half-hour off E-55 or in nearby Dubi costs about $35. For sex without a condom, it’s an extra $10. But it’s not just the Europeans who come here. With the highway’s notoriety plastered on countless websites, sex tourists from as far away as Australia and North America are jetting to Germany, renting cars and cruising in. Every parking spot and meter of roadside is divvied up and controlled by pimps; every shaded lair in the nearby woods serves as an open-air brothel—day and night.

...


“This region is a sex zoo,” a police officer said acidly. “Nobody in government is interested in stopping it. So why should I bother? My job is to make certain there is no trouble, and these whores know better than to make trouble.”

I asked if he thought many of the women were trafficked and forced to work as prostitutes.

The officer laughed. “They have a choice to be prostitutes or to live the good life. They have chosen to be whores.”

http://www.penguin.ca/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,0_9780670043125,00.html?sym=EXC

Of course, Germany isn't the only place these women end up. Italy, Greece, Kosovo, Turkey, and Israel are just a few of the other "prime" destinations. But if you read the snippet at the link above, that might give you some idea of not only how big of a problem it is but also how relatively easy it is to traffic humans.

[Kellanved]

63. It is a problem; sadly there seems to be some confusion about the reason

The UN numbers are from the beginning of the decade; they are precisely the reason why the current laws were passed. Traditionally, prostitution was half-legal in Germany. It was allowed, but prostitutes had no rights whatsoever - no access to courts, police , nor social healthcare.
That situation helped created the huge human trafficking problem. This is in part because Germany is the most Eastern rich-country. People discovered at the border are counted and so on. The official numbers estimate the number of sex-slaves in Germany at 1,000 - about half of what it used to be. The numbers can be found here: http://www.bka.de/lageberichte/mh.html


However, today right-wing groups and authors are using the old numbers to attack the new legalized situation. The "social benefits" BS is quite frequently used in conjunction. Contrary to what the American morale watch seems to think, the topic is pretty often in the day-to-day politics; no need to call anyone "of their asses" - unless the actual problem is the lack of puritan principles.

[redqueen]

66. Thank you... that explains it perfectly.

It somewhat shocks and greatly saddens me to see rightwing propoganda vomited out here at DU by well-meaning DUers.

I didn't understand your last sentence... no need to call anyone "of their asses"?

Good to know that Germany is now protecting sex workers by recognizing and regulating the industry!

[Kellanved]

68. heh.

I wasn't up to speed. It was intended as a connection to the "...this repub is rightly trying to get certain nations off their asses to stop it." posted elsewhere in this thread.

[mongo]

40. Go Redqueen!!!!

So how do I join your offical fanclub?

Seriously, thanks for setting the record straight!

[redqueen]

43. hahahahahaha

Always my pleasure, dear mongo!

:hi:

[Easy]

54. The tabloids really loved that story...

but the Arbeitsamt (job center) of course did not force her to take the job. Besides, the whole thing was a misunderstanding. The brothel advertised the job as "bartender", and the job center claimed they did not know it was a brothel.

The job center has since apologised:

Nach Olaf Möller, dem Pressesprecher des Landesarbeitsamtes Berlin, habe sich das Amt bereits in aller Öffentlichkeit entschuldigt. Schließlich seien die Arbeitsämter verpflichtet, alle Stellenangebote zu überprüfen. Die Tätigkeiten dürften nicht gegen Gesetz, Recht und die guten Sitten verstoßen. Warum das Prostitutionsangebot trotzdem weitergeleitet wurde, erklärt er mit der unklaren Definition des Stellenprofils: »Es wurde eine Barmixerin gesucht.«

Translation:

According to Olaf Möller, spokesman for the Landesarbeitsamt Berlin (roughly translates to regional job center Berlin), the job center already issued a public apology. Indeed job centers are bound to check all job offers. Jobs must not contravene law and decency. He explains the fact that the job offer was relayed anyway by the offer's unclear definition: 'They were looking for a female bartender.'

Source: http://www.jungle-world.com/seiten/2003/31/1346.php (only german, sorry... but I guess the truth was not interesting enough for the international yellow press)

~Easy

[daleo]

58. Re: your source, just for the record

LifeSite Principles
Accuracy in content is given high priority. News and information tips from readers are encouraged. Valid corrections are always welcome.


LifeSite emphasizes the social worth of traditional Judeo-Christian principles but is also respectful of all authentic religions and cultures that esteem life, family and universal norms of morality.


LifeSite's writers and founders have come to understand that respect for life and family are endangered by an international conflict. That conflict is between radically opposed views of the worth and dignity of every human life and of family life and community. It has been caused by secularists attempting to eliminate Christian morality and natural law principles which are seen as the primary obstacles to implementing their new world order.


LifeSite understands that abortion, euthanasia, cloning, homosexuality and all other moral, life and family issues are part of the international conflict affecting all nations, even at the most local levels. LifeSite attempts to provide its readers with the most useful and up-to-date information on this conflict.


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Who Produces LifeSite?
The site is affiliated with Interim Publishing and is also closely associated with Campaign Life Coalition (CLC), both organizations being headquartered in Toronto, Canada. LifeSite networks regularly with leaders and other organizations around the world.

Interim Publishing, founded in 1983, produces The Interim, Canada's national life and family newspaper and other publications related to life and family issues.

Campaign Life Coalition, founded in 1978, has been one of the first pro-life organizations to emphasize the international dimension of attacks on life and family. Along with a couple of other groups it pioneered pro-life lobbying at United Nations conferences. CLC president, Jim Hughes, is currently also vice-president of the International Right to Life Federation.

[PatGund]

60. Umm, may want to double check your sources....

http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

Claim: Women in Germany face the loss of unemployment benefits if they decline to accept work in brothels.

Status: False.

Isn't Lifesite.net a fundementalist anti-abortion site anyway?? I'd take anything they post with a grain of salt

[blackhorse]

76. Have you seen any follow-up on this?

The story was big news in Europe at the time and it certainly appeared the rest of the German government was shaking their heads and saying, "no, this is not a good idea". I certainly had the impression that this was just the stupidity of a single official, not a broadly supported national initiative.

[wordpix2]

9. hello? Human sex slave trafficking is very real & perhaps this repub is

rightly trying to get certain nations off their asses to stop it.

Meanwhile, repukes have their sex orgies to clean up such as Watergate II (the sequel) conducted by DHS/Cunningham and a certain DHS contractor(s).

[FreakinDJ]

17. Reads almost as good as the list of signatory members of PNAC

Michael Horowitz, a neoconservative at the Hudson Institute, a Washington, DC-based think tank, brought together the coalition of powerful evangelicals who pressed for legislation that would eventually become the 2000 Trafficking Victims Protection Act, or TVPA. This was their second step in a foray into US foreign policy that began with the International Religious Freedom Act of 1998, which places “promoting religious freedom as a core objective of US foreign policy,” according to the State Department. Critics say it simply won evangelicals an office in the State Department, freed more cash for “faith-based” groups and gave them sanctioning power, a criticism they echo for TVPA. After such success with the religious freedom campaign, says Horowitz, “I just knew that issue number two was going to be the trafficking issue.”

The coalition—including Chuck Colson, the former Nixon aide who found Jesus while serving time for Watergate, and Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention, which operates on the belief that all non-Christians “will spend eternity in hell”—linked up with the abolitionist feminists and won a sympathetic ear in Chris Smith, the antichoice New Jersey Republican.

Still, the offspring of such unlikely political bedfellows takes after its evangelical parent in one significant way: in a section of the bill, the term “sex trafficking” refers to all commercial sex. This pleased conservative feminists but more significantly enabled the broader social agenda of the Christian right. If trafficking is prostitution per se, then evangelicals can fight all prostitution, throughout the world, in the name of trafficking, funded by “anti-trafficking” initiatives.

Donna Hughes, chair of the women’s studies department at the University of Rhode Island, is the most vociferous of the abolitionist camp. She writes frequently for the National Review, is said to work very closely with Chris Smith and Horowitz
http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/conscience/archives/c2004sum_sextrafficking.asp

Reads almost as good as the list of signatory members of PNAC

[wordpix2]

36. Educate yourself and see this Frontline/PBS film:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/slaves/

Horrific film.

[jamesinca]

7. If Rep. Smith has been against this and is a staunch opponent

then why is he using a BS State Department report? If he has been doing this for awhile he knows the worst are Bushes oil friends in the Middle East. I personally think Rep. Smith is using this as an excuse to play Bush toadie and go after Germany with his rhetoric. The other explanation that I can think of is this; Rep. Smith has never really cared or payed attention to the issue, he has only run his mouth about it so it seems like he cares.

Dumb ass Smith just lost any credibility on this issue because he wants to be a party hack and not actually look at the issue IMHO.

[Spike from MN]

12. I'm not too familiar with Rep. Smith except for what I have

read about him on this issue. He was the sponsor of the The Victims of Trafficking and Violence Protection Act in 2000 and here's what he had to say on the signing of the bill:

http://www.house.gov/chrissmith/news/press2001/102800.html

According to the State Department report, Saudia Arabia is one of the 12 countries that may face sanctions. OK, we both know that will most likely never happen but at least it's out there. Also, there are more egregious offenders than Saudia Arabia that aren't on the list because, like I said, the report is politicized and pretty much a sham.

According to this article, it doesn't look like Rep. Smith is too pleased with the State Department's report:

Rep. Christopher Smith, a Republican author of the 2000 law that established the annual trafficking reports, said the Bush administration went too easy on India by placing it on the watch list instead of among the dozen worst offenders. The report cites child and forced labour and forced marriages as abuses in India.

Smith cited India's blatant unwillingness to address the massive problems of bonded labour and trafficking-related corruption and said its ranking reeks of political considerations within the State Department overriding the facts about human trafficking.

"I am not pleased by the relatively mild Bush administration rebuke to Germany," Smith said. He held a hearing last month at which women's rights advocates said potentially 40,000 women and children, most from Eastern Europe, could be imported to serve men visiting Germany during the four-week tournament.

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0700world/tm_objectid=17183098&method=full&siteid=50082&headline=world-cup-sex-trafficking-fears-name_page.html

It doesn't sound to me like he's very happy with the current administration either. In fact, he thinks Dubya is going too easy on Germany. From everything I have read on Germany and human trafficking, I have to agree with him. The author of the book that I mentioned in my previous post also seemed to think that Smith has been fighting hard on this issue. Like I said, I know nothing about Smith except for his stance on this matter but everything I have read regarding that seems to indicate that he is indeed sincere in wanting to do everything he can to address the issue of human trafficking. If you have information to the contrary, please feel free to post it as I feel that human trafficking is a problem that isn't getting the attention it deserves. If Rep. Smith (or anyone else) is "misleading" us on this issue (gee, where have we heard THAT before?), I would certainly like to know about it.

[Seabiscuit]

15. As you pointed out, the sex slave trade has absolutely nothing to do

with Germany's legal prostitution.

This politician's comments about Germany are insane. He should know better. It's shallowly politically motivated as is every Repuke pronouncement.

[Spike from MN]

20. Actually, my understanding is that Germany only legalized

prostitution to avoid possible future sanctions because of the trafficking. Of course, that's not the "official" reason they gave but according to what I have read, that certainly seems to be the unofficial reason. And by legalizing it, they are allowing the trafficking to proliferate even more because police officers have pretty much no way to justify raiding a brothel now. Given that, it appears that the sex slave trade certainly DOES have something to do with Germany's legal prostitution and by legalizing it, they have only compounded the problem and made it a lot harder to enforce anti-trafficking laws. If they wanted to legalize it, they really should have done something to combat the trafficking first IMHO.

[Seabiscuit]

48. I don't know where you're getting such ideas, but I could have sworn

you said in your earlier post that I responded to: "This is NOT legalized prostitution we're talking. This is human trafficking and it's a HUGE black market business, coming in third behind arms sales and drug sales."

[redqueen]

51. Pardon this intrusion, but what you have read appears to be a pile

of steaming dung.

What's the name of that book? I'd like to do a little research...

[Seabiscuit]

53. Agreed. The Snopes thing convinced me.

[Kellanved]

65. huh?

That's totally absurd.


How do you want to back your claim that authorities can't raid a brothel anymore? Prostitution wasn't illegal before the law you criticize - it was outside the law.

Police can't raid a brothel without a court order - nothing has changed in that regard. However, now labor and health authorities can raid brothels and those don't need court orders. I.e. it is now a lot easier to justify a raid on brothels.

[blackhorse]

77. Huh?

Prostitution has been legal in Germany for decades - at least. Legalized prostitution very much predated the fall of the Berlin Wall, which is when the traffic in women really took off in western Europe.

BH

[coalition_unwilling]

23. Turkey (a nominal U.S. ally) is a far worse offender in

human trafficking, relying on desperation of femaile economic refugees from former Soviet republics to keep the sex trade supplied.

[PatGund]

62. Not just Turkey.....

Allies like the UAE has open (and illegal) prositution in Dubai, usually Indian, Fillipina, and Russian.

Bahrain, you check into a hotel and ask the bellboy for the special. They parade women, again, usually Indian, Fillipina, and Russian) in front of you, one is chosen, that's it. Is it illegal? Yes. Does it happen? Yes. Are they an ally of the US? Hell yes.

Here in Qatar, the Qatari government tries to crack down on it, but it's open that many Fillipina housekeepers and waitresses offer "other" services as well. Big ally of the US.

And KSA? (Hollow laugh!) The Sauds are the worse offenders of the lot! You can still buy slave chains that show signs of *recent* use, and foreign women are treated as chattel. It is not unusal for a Saudi man to hire a fillipina housekeeper, keep her passport and wages, rape her repeatedly, and then kick her out and send her back when she is found to be pregnant. And if the Religious Policemen get into it, she may very well be flogged first. And KSA are VERY GOOD friends and allies of the US - and of the Bush family.

So please Rep. Smith, Dinging Germany for open and legalized prostitution, when so many of the US's allies are far, far, far, far, far worse offenders, is stupid at best

[redqueen]

67. Best post in the thread!

:applause:

[PatGund]

61. What you're citing....

What you're citing is illegal prostitution and it's use by human trafficing, which is horrible and vile at best.

What the Representative from New Jersey is demanding Germany do is *RECRIMINALIZE* prostitution, to make it illegal again.

I fail to see how making *legal* prostitution illegal is going to have the magic effect of reducing illegal prostitution *and* human trafficing, especially when it's the fact it *is* illegal in some countries that traps women in it. Areas that it's legal, the women work it because they want to, they have rights, protection, guidelines, etc. Making it illegal strips all of that away, and increases the vile human trafficing trade.

[rucky]

13. We're not even IN the World Cup, are we? n/t

[Blue_Tires]

26. yes, the U.S. has qualified

[Zorra]

14. Married republicans pay prostitutes for sex and then the guilt

from the commission of their "sins" overwhelms them.

And since republicans do not believe that they are accountable for their actions, they blame the prostitutes for causing them to "sin".

Look into any republican closet and you will find some nasty skeletons.

[susanna]

78. Zorra, you're dead on....I've seen that up close.

...and it isn't pretty. When a sub-culture (fundies) demonize sex, what happens? Otherwise kind, humane and generally normal people indulge their needs with prostitutes ('cuz their wives won't give them what they "really" want), and then they panic over their transgression. Once that guilt trip kicks in, they MUST then project "sinfulness" onto the "other."

It doesn't GET any more Freudian. Which is funny 'cause I like Jung better. Or maybe I'm mixing it up, LOL. Which one was the projection guy? :-)

on edit: emphasis

[wallwriter]

16. In the US, only corporations get to screw people for money (n/t)

[redqueen]

22. Logically human trafficking should be reduced by legalized prostitution.

Bunch of bullshit...

[Spike from MN]

27. Actually, it makes it harder to raid brothels and catch potential

traffickers and their victims because, as I stated in an earlier post, it makes it a lot harder for the police to justify raiding a brothel. How would legalizing prostitution reduce human trafficking?

[redqueen]

30. Why would they need to raid the brothel?

Regulations should require the brothels submit to regular, mandatory, thorough inspections.

Off to check if your post with that claim was backed with a link... a good link.

edit: WTF was I thinking... so do you have a source please?

[wordpix2]

38. uh---to see if children have been sold into sex slavery, perhaps?

[redqueen]

39. Did you read the part that wasn't in the subject line?

Yeah, I think that's it for this little 'discussion'.

*sigh*

[wordpix2]

46. agreed that if Smith's gig is to ban prostitution, he's acting fundie but

he actually MIGHT be concerned about sex slavery, which is very real and very damaging to children. That's all.

[redqueen]

50. Huh? This is straight-up demagoguery.

He's not trying to do shit about shit.

This is 100% distraction.

If they wanted to do something about human trafficking, don't you think they'd address THAT, and not the fucking world cup?

[mongo]

42. Perhaps we could ban sex between all unmarried people

for the children of course

[wordpix2]

47. good luck with that one

[Spike from MN]

56. Oops. I forgot the link.

Inspections probably wouldn't do much good. Before prostitution was legalized, cops would warn the owners of upcoming raids so by the time the authorities showed up, more often than not they found nothing. The cops gave the owners "protection" in exchange for freebies and I rather doubt legalization has changed that aspect of the business. (I don't have a link for that as it was in the book I read.)

Here's the link I forgot to include in my previous post along with some snippets.

But a United Nations report on human trafficking released last month still rated Germany "very high" as a destination for women forced into sex work, and some of those who supported legalization are reconsidering.

...


It's not just missing tax revenue that's worrisome, Breyer said. Because prostitution is legal, police don't investigate it as aggressively as they once did, and that's allowed forced prostitution to thrive, she thinks.

Anne Fitzgerald, who works with Solidarity With Women in Distress, agrees. That's why her group began preparing an information campaign last year.

...


"The idea behind the change in legislation was, I believe, that prostitutes should be able to leave the `gray zone' of semi-illegality and be registered and have social insurance like other professions," Fitzgerald said. "Reality has since shown that very few prostitutes are officially registered and the police have practically no way of justifying brothel raids, so that now fewer victims of trafficking are actually discovered."

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/world/14566639.htm

[rucky]

35. all the (legal) prostitutes would be registered. n/t

[Spike from MN]

57. Actually, registration isn't mandatory.

Under German law, prostitutes must be at least 18 years old, but registration isn't mandatory and the official government service-workers union, which represents them, says only a few have signed up. There's no health screening because prostitutes are eligible for the national health system. Some cities have limited where they can work, but Berlin allows them to work anywhere.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/world/14566639.htm

[redqueen]

69. Well, there you go then... they should make it mandatory.

Problem solved. :)

[nodehopper]

41. because

legalizing establishes institutional checks on it as an industry. just decriminalization would do nothing to reduce human trafficking, but legalization would.

[Kellanved]

64. You have to consider the previous situation

First: procuration is illegal under the new laws.

Second: the previous situation was "sittenwidrig"; German legalese for "immoral and thus outside the law". That meant that the trade was neither illegal, nor legal; prostitutes had no access to courts and police. Especially the police had no reason to raid brothels either.

[geek tragedy]

72. Doesn't work that way.

Making it legal increases demand in a country like Germany--makes it seem acceptable.

The problem is--there aren't enough German women willing to be prostitutes. As it turns out, women with educations and opportunities for real jobs don't become prostitutes.

Soooooo, guess what happens? That's right--there's a buck to be made, so women get shipped in from Eastern Europe.

But, those women must really like it, right?

[MnFats]

29. they could warn about racist asshold soccer fans....

ESPN had a shocking story about neonazi fans that scream slurs and do worse at European soccer games. thus far the response has been tepid at best....you got groups hoisting huge swastika flags with impunity inside the stadiums....this is going to be a bigger source of trouple than selling sex.

[HuffleClaw]

32. what a joke

the US whining about other nations is akin to a rapist whining about a jaywalker.

i wonder what is REALLY their beef. i expect germany isn't supporting their new march to war.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

45. Prudes out in force. I now officially want the USA to get their asses

handed to them by Italy and the Czech Republic, so we don't have to hear any more of this pseudomoralistic, hypocritical, bigoted, xenophobic, arrogant, vile, ridiculous grandstanding.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Miss Chybil]

52. It's just another issue with the word "sex" in it

to stir up those who are overly consumed with the issue. You know, the Hypocrites.

[Runcible Spoon]

59. maybe we should start at home..

from the US dept of state's own page:
"According to U.S. government estimates, about 800,000 to 900,000 men, women and children are trafficked each year across international borders worldwide for sex and other purposes; approximately 18,000 to 20,000 of those victims are trafficked into the United States itself."
http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2004/May/12-381449.html

although this number may be higher:
"A recent CIA report estimated that between 45,000 to 50,000 women and children are brought to the United States every year under false pretenses and are forced to work as prostitutes, abused labourers or servants."
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/trafficking_victim_consents.html

Yes there are countries which have higher rates, but research into sex tourism indicates that Westerners travel to satisfy their sick appetitites for child sex, and of these tourists Americans are a prominent group. One of my former colleagues was working on investigating "lingerie models" in a medium city in New England and the girls who work there are widely thought to have been smuggled in from Croatia. Some of them confided that their "employers" had paid for their passports and tickets, but when they got to the US all their documentation was taken from them, they were seldom allowed to leave the premises and only under supervision, they were not allowed to use the phone, and all of their letters were opened and scanned before allowing delivery. But official reports never include women like this. THey are largely invisible and seem to be perfectly legal, happy immigrants on paper. This situation put my colleague into a really rough situation, since she promised the girls who would talk to her to keep their information confidential. They were sending almost all of their money back home to their families, they feared deportation because it could mean their deaths if they were ever sent back to Croatia.
EDITED FOR SYNTAX AND SPELLING

[geek tragedy]

70. Opposition to prostitution is NOT a rightwing value.

Prostitution is a societal evil. The idea that these women "want" to be prostitutes is just a bunch of bullshit to justify the economic exploitation of vulnerable women.

Prostitution is flat-out wrong not because it's sex, but because it's the most degrading form of exploitation on this planet. It's all about men who think they have a God-given right to buy access to a vagina.

And OF COURSE legalized prostitution leads to increased trafficking:

<snip>
"In Germany, 75% of the prostitutes are foreigners. (Altink, 1995, p.33) ("Trafficking of Women to the European Union: Characteristic, Trends and Policy Issues," European Conference on Trafficking in Women, June 1996, IOM, 7 May 1996)

There are 6,000 - 8,000 women in prostitution in Hamburg, about 70% of them are migrant prostitutes and 50% of those are East European women, from Poland, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania and the Czech Republic. The majority is controlled by pimps, isolated in apartment-brothels and controlled by Russian mafia organizations. (Hamburg police Department, Lucia Brussa, "Transnational AIDS/STD Prevention Among Migrant Prostitutes in Europe," TAMPEP, 1996)

The second largest migrant group of women in prostitution is from Latin America, mostly from the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela and Brazil. Dominican women are confined to apartments, while those from Ecuador work in the street, or in bars and cabarets. (Licia Brussa, "Transnational AIDS/STD Prevention Among Migrant Prostitutes in Europe," TAMPEP, 1996)

There are between 60,000 and 200,000 women in prostitution in Germany. Foreign women and girls account for about half of the women in prostitution, most of them are illegal immigrants. (Michele Hirsch, "Plan of Action Against Trafficking in Women and Forced Prostitution," p.9, Council of Europe, 1996)

The Eros Center in Kiel is one of Germany’s biggest licensed brothels. The standard price, DM50 (about US$ 30) has not changed since 1992, which means it has dropped to one-third the real value since 1992. ("Giving the customer what he wants...," Economist, 14 February 1998)

The E55 highway from Berlin, Germany to Prague, Czech Republic is lined with hundreds of prostituted women, the cheapest, typically gypsies or Ukrainians can be bought for US$10-20. ("Giving the customer what he wants...," Economist, 14 February 1998)

In 1994-1996 the sex industry scenery, in Hamburg and other parts of Germany, underwent important changes due to the increasing number of women coming from East European countries. (Lucia Brussa, "Transnational AIDS/STD Prevention Among Migrant Prostitutes in Europe," TAMPEP, 1996)
<snip>

http://www.catwinternational.org/factbook/Germany.php


You get mostly foreign women as prostitutes in Germany because, SURPRISE SURPRISE, women with an education and options DON'T BECOME PROSTIUTES.

In other words, there isn't enough supply to meet the demand of the pigs who want a rent-a-pussy, so they import desperate, exploited women from poor countries.

[CTLawGuy]

79. women with an education don't work at McDonalds

therefore all McDonald's employees are foreign slaves?

[TankLV]

73. Are they charging too much AGAIN?!

Geesh!